[stylist] stylist Digest, Vol 75, Issue 8

Wed Jul 14 18:49:54 UTC 2010

Using an outline, or what kind of outline you use, is all up to the writer.  It really depends on your style and level of organization.  Not all writers utilize outlines.  Some can keep very straight and accurate records in their head while others need tangible evidence of their thoughts an ideas.  For me it depends on what I am working on.  I may use lose outlines to keep info straight and linear, but usually I just write and keep folders for everything.  For example, I will free write, place it in a folder (hard and electronic) they refer to my free writings and use them to carve out my stories.  Each step and draft will go into a sub-folder within the initial folder.  Once I have something I know I want to use, I will just continue working with that document, cutting and adding as needed.

J. K. Rowling has stacks and stacks of materials she never intended to put in the Harry Potter books, but it was necessary for her.  She has detailed geneologies and historys for Harry P much like Tolkien did for Lord of the Rings.  This is an interesting concept.  Whether you write it down or not, a writer must know their characters backgrounds.

The same discipline can be applied to non-fiction.  Even when writing about yourself it is good to be as accurate as possible when it comes to dates and such.  Outlines are real handy when dealing with factual and historical info.  Though keep in mind that a story (including non-fiction) does not have to happen in a linear manner on the page, but dates should be correct nonetheless, or as accurate as your memory allows.

As most of us are saying, using outlines are completely up to the writer.  It is all about what you are comfortable with and how you can best manage your time and writing.

Good-luck!

Bridgit P

> From: stylist-request at nfbnet.org
> Subject: stylist Digest, Vol 75, Issue 8
> To: stylist at nfbnet.org
> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 12:00:12 -0500
> 
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> Today's Topics:
> 
> 1. Re: Writing Prompt for Anthology (loristay)
> 2. Re: Novel Outlines/research (loristay)
> 3. Publishing the 2010 Writing Contest pieces (Robert Leslie Newman)
> 4. Re: Publishing the 2010 Writing Contest pieces (loristay)
> 5. Re: Novel Outlines/research (Donna Hill)
> 6. Re: Novel Outlines/research (loristay)
> 7. Re: Novel Outlines/research (James H. "Jim" Canaday M.A. N6YR)
> 8. Re: Novel Outlines/research (James H. "Jim" Canaday M.A. N6YR)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 20:21:01 -0400
> From: loristay <loristay at aol.com>
> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Writing Prompt for Anthology
> Message-ID: <3924A060.FE41.4C44.8802.A57CA3CEFD69 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Thanks. ?now it makes sense.
> Lori
> On Jul 13, 2010, at 12:22:43 PM, "Donna Hill" <penatwork at epix.net> wrote:
> 
> Lori,
> I believe it's the uncle that had no sons.
> Donna
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 20:39:14 -0400
> From: loristay <loristay at aol.com>
> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Novel Outlines/research
> Message-ID: <9DCB4C89.61D4.48B8.A8DD.606AA459C742 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> I don't use outlines per se. ?Sometimes I'll write a short story, then expand on that. ?If I know how it ends, well and good. ?I don't always. ?That sometimes means I have to toss out material that doesn't work.
> 
> What I do find some writers do is to write without researching, and then they get caught in a glaring error. ?One recently gave me material to read in which she said her main character's father died in battle in 1820. ?So I asked, who was fighting in the U.S. in 1820? ?I knew about the war of 1812, and the Alamo, which I'm told is 1836, and the civil war, about 1858, but not 1820. ?When I asked about it, she said, "oh, I just picked a date."
> Now it's possible there was some fighting going on in 1820 in some obscure place. ?But she hadn't done her research, and I picked up on it. ?I'm not a historian, so if I picked up on it, so would just about anyone who read the piece.
> Lori
> 
> On Jul 11, 2010, at 5:45:43 PM, "James H. \" <n6yr at sunflower.com> wrote:
> 
> From: "James H. \" <n6yr at sunflower.com>
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Novel Outlines
> Date: July 11, 2010 5:45:43 PM EDT
> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Joe,
> if you look back a few issues of slate and style, you can find my?
> article "herding your ideas" where I deal with this.
> 
> outlines are not the end all and be all.
> I think for nonfiction they're pretty much a requirement for a piece?
> of over 500-words. but for fiction, authors have used all kinds of methods.
> 
> for organizing fiction writing for myself I don't use something like?
> an outline, nowhere near that organized or precise.
> I take ideas and elements and string them together into what I call a?
> "sketch" just written like a paragraph only I use telegraphic?
> language since I'm the only one who's reading it.
> then I can go back and stick in other elements or cross connections?
> once I have the plot line put together.
> 
> as I write from one of these, I sometimes find I have to reorganize?
> during the composition, usually putting things together in a different order.
> 
> some authors journal while they write. the journals allow them to?
> quickly put down ideas related to other story elements where they're?
> not composing at the time, or to other pieces?
> altogether. journalizing allows those ideas to be dealt with quickly?
> to avoid distraction during composition.
> 
> hope this helps Joe.
> jc
> 
> At 02:55 PM 7/11/2010, you wrote:
> > Hello all,
> >
> >Okay, so my so-called novel is coming along at a decent hum. Who knows if
> >it will ever amount to anything, but damn it, at least it's coming along!
> >So, my question: How many of you guys use outlines to write, and if you do,
> >what kind of format do you use? I'm considering a few different outcomes,
> >and although I always hesitated to use outlines for anything other than
> >academic pieces, I think I'd better become more organized. Any thoughts,
> >tips, suggestions would be most appreciated. Thanks.
> >
> >Joe
> >
> >"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
> >some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Writers Division web site:
> >http://www.nfb-writers-division.org <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
> >
> >stylist mailing list
> >stylist at nfbnet.org
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for stylist:
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/n6yr%40sunflower.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
> 
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
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> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 19:55:11 -0500
> From: "Robert Leslie Newman" <newmanrl at cox.net>
> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [stylist] Publishing the 2010 Writing Contest pieces
> Message-ID: <3F28A2E9670440989AFC52FBCA7D28DC at RobertLesliePC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Hey guys, what was advertised is that a winning piece would be published in
> Slate and Style. And for now, that is what we will do- first publish them in
> S&S and then the author can publish them elsewhere and then so could we,
> like on our Division's website. And Yes, that means a delay! We could look
> at doing it different -- any suggestions?
> 
> 
> 
> Robert Leslie Newman
> President NFB Writers' division 
> Writers' Division Website-
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
> Personal Website- 
> http://www.thoughtprovoker.info
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Joe Orozco
> Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2010 2:38 PM
> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [stylist] 2010 Writing Contest Winners!!!
> 
> Congratulations! And here's a second vote for their works to be included
> online somewhere.
> 
> Joe
> 
> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jewel S.
> Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2010 3:15 PM
> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [stylist] 2010 Writing Contest Winners!!!
> 
> Congratulations to the winners!
> 
> Will the winning pieces be published on the website? I would love to read
> them.
> 
> Again, congratulations to all winners! I hope you continue to write
> wonderful pieces and enjoy writing.
> 
> ~Jewel
> 
> On 7/11/10, Robert Leslie Newman <newmanrl at cox.net> wrote:
> > As announced at the 2010 NFB Writers Division annual meeting,
> here are the
> > 2010 winners of our writing contest!
> > (We will add one new section to next years contest, a
> non-fiction category)
> >
> > Adult 2010 Winners
> >
> >
> >
> > Short Fiction:
> >
> >
> >
> > 1st place- Neil Butters
> >
> > Title- "Real Fantasies"
> >
> >
> >
> > 2nd Place- Barbara Cutrera
> >
> > Title- "Clean as Cotton"
> >
> >
> >
> > 3rd Place- Shawn Jacobson
> >
> > Title- "Healer"
> >
> >
> >
> > Honorable Mention:
> >
> >
> >
> > Allison Hilliker - "Lauren's Family"
> >
> >
> >
> > Poetry:
> >
> >
> >
> > First Place- David Combs
> >
> > Title- "Tomorrow's Bridge"
> >
> >
> >
> > Second Place- Ross Rogoff
> >
> > Title- "Where the Wind Blows Out at Sea"
> >
> >
> >
> > Third Place- Kristen Anne Diaz
> >
> > Title- "The Bow of Peace"
> >
> >
> >
> > Honorable mentions:
> >
> >
> >
> > Myrna D. Badgerow - "Legend"
> >
> > Marilyn Brandt Smith - "September Spa"
> >
> > Marilyn Brandt Smith - "Spring Without an E (lipogram)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Youth 2010 Contest Winners
> >
> >
> >
> > High School Short Fiction:
> >
> >
> >
> > First Place- Michelle Gage
> >
> > Title- "My New and Old Best Friend"
> >
> >
> >
> > Second Place- Stephanie Olivas
> >
> > Title- "Horror of the Lost"
> >
> >
> >
> > Third Place- Randy Scott
> >
> > Title- "The Quest for the Cane and the Code"
> >
> >
> >
> > High school poetry:
> >
> >
> >
> > First Place- Amanda Ryan Taylor
> >
> > Title- "Love Struck"
> >
> >
> >
> > Second Place- Tony James
> >
> > Title- "Peace"
> >
> >
> >
> > Third Place- Amanda Ryan Taylor
> >
> > Title- "Time"
> >
> >
> >
> > Middle School Poetry:
> >
> >
> >
> > First Place- Jazmin Castillo
> >
> > Title- "Braille, Braille, Braille"
> >
> >
> >
> > Second Place- Precious Perez
> >
> > Title- "Baby Bunnies"
> >
> >
> >
> > Elementary Short Fiction:
> >
> >
> >
> > First Place- Lauryn Boyle
> >
> > Title- "The Best Pet Ever"
> >
> >
> >
> > Second Place- Simon Bonenfant
> >
> > Title- "Snow"
> >
> >
> >
> > ELEMENTARY Poetry:
> >
> >
> >
> > First Place- Mausam R. Mehta
> >
> > Title- "A Summer Day"
> >
> >
> >
> > Second Place- Ahbee Orton
> >
> > Title- "How People Read"
> >
> >
> >
> > Third Place- Nicholas Lentz
> >
> > Title- "Bears and Cats"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Robert Leslie Newman
> > President NFB Writers' division
> > Writers' Division Website-
> > http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
> > <blocked::http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
> > Personal Website-
> > http://www.thoughtprovoker.info
> > _______________________________________________
> > Writers Division web site:
> > http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
> >
> > stylist mailing list
> > stylist at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > stylist:
> > 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/herekit
> tykat2%40gmail.com
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
> 
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> stylist:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/jsorozc
> o%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
> 
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> stylist:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/newmanrl%40cox.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 21:09:38 -0400
> From: loristay <loristay at aol.com>
> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Publishing the 2010 Writing Contest pieces
> Message-ID: <080B97A9.BCE6.4C8C.BAD4.29DD0BDB58BC at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> The reason for this is that at one point a writer won one of our contests, but before we could publish his story, he submitted it to the Braille Monitor, which published it, and we all felt like idiots--to coin a phrase--because our quarterly magazine came out later than the Monitor. ?Hence the rules and delay Robert has mentioned.
> Lori
> On Jul 13, 2010, at 8:55:11 PM, "Robert Leslie Newman" <newmanrl at cox.net> wrote:
> 
> From: "Robert Leslie Newman" <newmanrl at cox.net>
> Subject: [stylist] Publishing the 2010 Writing Contest pieces
> Date: July 13, 2010 8:55:11 PM EDT
> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Hey guys, what was advertised is that a winning piece would be published in
> Slate and Style. And for now, that is what we will do- first publish them in
> S&S and then the author can publish them elsewhere and then so could we,
> like on our Division's website. And Yes, that means a delay! We could look
> at doing it different -- any suggestions?
> 
> 
> 
> Robert Leslie Newman
> President NFB Writers' division?
> Writers' Division Website-
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
> Personal Website-?
> http://www.thoughtprovoker.info
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Joe Orozco
> Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2010 2:38 PM
> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [stylist] 2010 Writing Contest Winners!!!
> 
> Congratulations! And here's a second vote for their works to be included
> online somewhere.
> 
> Joe
> 
> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jewel S.
> Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2010 3:15 PM
> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [stylist] 2010 Writing Contest Winners!!!
> 
> Congratulations to the winners!
> 
> Will the winning pieces be published on the website? I would love to read
> them.
> 
> Again, congratulations to all winners! I hope you continue to write
> wonderful pieces and enjoy writing.
> 
> ~Jewel
> 
> On 7/11/10, Robert Leslie Newman <newmanrl at cox.net> wrote:
> > As announced at the 2010 NFB Writers Division annual meeting,
> here are the
> > 2010 winners of our writing contest!
> > (We will add one new section to next years contest, a
> non-fiction category)
> >
> > Adult 2010 Winners
> >
> >
> >
> > Short Fiction:
> >
> >
> >
> > 1st place- Neil Butters
> >
> > Title- "Real Fantasies"
> >
> >
> >
> > 2nd Place- Barbara Cutrera
> >
> > Title- "Clean as Cotton"
> >
> >
> >
> > 3rd Place- Shawn Jacobson
> >
> > Title- "Healer"
> >
> >
> >
> > Honorable Mention:
> >
> >
> >
> > Allison Hilliker - "Lauren's Family"
> >
> >
> >
> > Poetry:
> >
> >
> >
> > First Place- David Combs
> >
> > Title- "Tomorrow's Bridge"
> >
> >
> >
> > Second Place- Ross Rogoff
> >
> > Title- "Where the Wind Blows Out at Sea"
> >
> >
> >
> > Third Place- Kristen Anne Diaz
> >
> > Title- "The Bow of Peace"
> >
> >
> >
> > Honorable mentions:
> >
> >
> >
> > Myrna D. Badgerow - "Legend"
> >
> > Marilyn Brandt Smith - "September Spa"
> >
> > Marilyn Brandt Smith - "Spring Without an E (lipogram)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Youth 2010 Contest Winners
> >
> >
> >
> > High School Short Fiction:
> >
> >
> >
> > First Place- Michelle Gage
> >
> > Title- "My New and Old Best Friend"
> >
> >
> >
> > Second Place- Stephanie Olivas
> >
> > Title- "Horror of the Lost"
> >
> >
> >
> > Third Place- Randy Scott
> >
> > Title- "The Quest for the Cane and the Code"
> >
> >
> >
> > High school poetry:
> >
> >
> >
> > First Place- Amanda Ryan Taylor
> >
> > Title- "Love Struck"
> >
> >
> >
> > Second Place- Tony James
> >
> > Title- "Peace"
> >
> >
> >
> > Third Place- Amanda Ryan Taylor
> >
> > Title- "Time"
> >
> >
> >
> > Middle School Poetry:
> >
> >
> >
> > First Place- Jazmin Castillo
> >
> > Title- "Braille, Braille, Braille"
> >
> >
> >
> > Second Place- Precious Perez
> >
> > Title- "Baby Bunnies"
> >
> >
> >
> > Elementary Short Fiction:
> >
> >
> >
> > First Place- Lauryn Boyle
> >
> > Title- "The Best Pet Ever"
> >
> >
> >
> > Second Place- Simon Bonenfant
> >
> > Title- "Snow"
> >
> >
> >
> > ELEMENTARY Poetry:
> >
> >
> >
> > First Place- Mausam R. Mehta
> >
> > Title- "A Summer Day"
> >
> >
> >
> > Second Place- Ahbee Orton
> >
> > Title- "How People Read"
> >
> >
> >
> > Third Place- Nicholas Lentz
> >
> > Title- "Bears and Cats"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Robert Leslie Newman
> > President NFB Writers' division
> > Writers' Division Website-
> > http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
> > <blocked::http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
> > Personal Website-
> > http://www.thoughtprovoker.info
> > _______________________________________________
> > Writers Division web site:
> > http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
> >
> > stylist mailing list
> > stylist at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > stylist:
> >?
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/herekit
> tykat2%40gmail.com
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
> 
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> stylist:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/jsorozc
> o%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
> 
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> stylist:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/newmanrl%40cox.net
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
> 
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for stylist:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/loristay%40aol.com
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 21:58:16 -0400
> From: Donna Hill <penatwork at epix.net>
> To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Novel Outlines/research
> Message-ID: <4C3D19B8.2070108 at epix.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> Hi Lori,
> Thanks for sharing this. I think it is so important to be well informed, 
> accurate and consistent in writing. Calling it fiction doesn't excuse 
> anything. The more realistic your work is -- even the fantasies -- the 
> more believable. There might have been some battles with native 
> Americans in 1820, but your budding author friend should have 
> thought/researched her subject a bit more thoroughly. It is amazing how 
> little things like that can ruin a perfectly good story.
> 
> Donna
> 
> Read Donna's articles on
> Suite 101:
> www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
> American Chronicle:
> www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885
> 
> Connect with Donna on
> Twitter:
> www.twitter.com/dewhill
> LinkedIn:
> www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
> FaceBook:
> www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.
> 
> Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at:
> cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
> Apple I-Tunes
> phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=259244374
> 
> Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project 
> Donna is Head of Media Relations for the nonprofit 
> Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind:
> www.padnfb.org
> 
> 
> 
> loristay wrote:
> > I don't use outlines per se. Sometimes I'll write a short story, then expand on that. If I know how it ends, well and good. I don't always. That sometimes means I have to toss out material that doesn't work.
> >
> > What I do find some writers do is to write without researching, and then they get caught in a glaring error. One recently gave me material to read in which she said her main character's father died in battle in 1820. So I asked, who was fighting in the U.S. in 1820? I knew about the war of 1812, and the Alamo, which I'm told is 1836, and the civil war, about 1858, but not 1820. When I asked about it, she said, "oh, I just picked a date."
> > Now it's possible there was some fighting going on in 1820 in some obscure place. But she hadn't done her research, and I picked up on it. I'm not a historian, so if I picked up on it, so would just about anyone who read the piece.
> > Lori
> >
> > On Jul 11, 2010, at 5:45:43 PM, "James H. \" <n6yr at sunflower.com> wrote:
> >
> > From: "James H. \" <n6yr at sunflower.com>
> > Subject: Re: [stylist] Novel Outlines
> > Date: July 11, 2010 5:45:43 PM EDT
> > To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> > Joe,
> > if you look back a few issues of slate and style, you can find my 
> > article "herding your ideas" where I deal with this.
> >
> > outlines are not the end all and be all.
> > I think for nonfiction they're pretty much a requirement for a piece 
> > of over 500-words. but for fiction, authors have used all kinds of methods.
> >
> > for organizing fiction writing for myself I don't use something like 
> > an outline, nowhere near that organized or precise.
> > I take ideas and elements and string them together into what I call a 
> > "sketch" just written like a paragraph only I use telegraphic 
> > language since I'm the only one who's reading it.
> > then I can go back and stick in other elements or cross connections 
> > once I have the plot line put together.
> >
> > as I write from one of these, I sometimes find I have to reorganize 
> > during the composition, usually putting things together in a different order.
> >
> > some authors journal while they write. the journals allow them to 
> > quickly put down ideas related to other story elements where they're 
> > not composing at the time, or to other pieces 
> > altogether. journalizing allows those ideas to be dealt with quickly 
> > to avoid distraction during composition.
> >
> > hope this helps Joe.
> > jc
> >
> > At 02:55 PM 7/11/2010, you wrote:
> > 
> >> Hello all,
> >>
> >> Okay, so my so-called novel is coming along at a decent hum. Who knows if
> >> it will ever amount to anything, but damn it, at least it's coming along!
> >> So, my question: How many of you guys use outlines to write, and if you do,
> >> what kind of format do you use? I'm considering a few different outcomes,
> >> and although I always hesitated to use outlines for anything other than
> >> academic pieces, I think I'd better become more organized. Any thoughts,
> >> tips, suggestions would be most appreciated. Thanks.
> >>
> >> Joe
> >>
> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
> >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Writers Division web site:
> >> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
> >>
> >> stylist mailing list
> >> stylist at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for stylist:
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/n6yr%40sunflower.com
> >> 
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Writers Division web site:
> > http://www.nfb-writers-division.org <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
> >
> > stylist mailing list
> > stylist at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for stylist:
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/loristay%40aol.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Writers Division web site:
> > http://www.nfb-writers-division.org <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
> >
> > stylist mailing list
> > stylist at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for stylist:
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/penatwork%40epix.net
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > =======
> > Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found.
> > (Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.15420)
> > http://www.pctools.com/
> > =======
> >
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> =======
> Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found.
> (Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.15420)
> http://www.pctools.com/
> =======
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 23:40:26 -0400
> From: loristay <loristay at aol.com>
> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Novel Outlines/research
> Message-ID: <430AE6B6.DEDE.487D.B240.F284F5009DD2 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Agreed. ?I've had my own adventures with lack of research, mainly about the character of places. ?If not for my travel (Join NFB, see the country!), I'd still be thinking Beverly Hills was flat, that Boston was mapped like a grid, that the hills in Ithaca were actually climbable... Well, you get the idea. ?I have had to junk a couple of stories because the geography wasn't like Long Island, which is flat, flat, flat, and reasonably navigable, with the exception of Levittown.
> Lori
> On Jul 13, 2010, at 9:58:16 PM, "Donna Hill" <penatwork at epix.net> wrote:
> 
> From: "Donna Hill" <penatwork at epix.net>
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Novel Outlines/research
> Date: July 13, 2010 9:58:16 PM EDT
> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Hi Lori,
> Thanks for sharing this. I think it is so important to be well informed,?
> accurate and consistent in writing. Calling it fiction doesn't excuse?
> anything. The more realistic your work is -- even the fantasies -- the?
> more believable. There might have been some battles with native?
> Americans in 1820, but your budding author friend should have?
> thought/researched her subject a bit more thoroughly. It is amazing how?
> little things like that can ruin a perfectly good story.
> 
> Donna
> 
> Read Donna's articles on
> Suite 101:
> www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
> American Chronicle:
> www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885
> 
> Connect with Donna on
> Twitter:
> www.twitter.com/dewhill
> LinkedIn:
> www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
> FaceBook:
> www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.
> 
> Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at:
> cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
> Apple I-Tunes
> phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=259244374
> 
> Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project?
> Donna is Head of Media Relations for the nonprofit?
> Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind:
> www.padnfb.org
> 
> 
> 
> loristay wrote:
> > I don't use outlines per se. Sometimes I'll write a short story, then expand on that. If I know how it ends, well and good. I don't always. That sometimes means I have to toss out material that doesn't work.
> >
> > What I do find some writers do is to write without researching, and then they get caught in a glaring error. One recently gave me material to read in which she said her main character's father died in battle in 1820. So I asked, who was fighting in the U.S. in 1820? I knew about the war of 1812, and the Alamo, which I'm told is 1836, and the civil war, about 1858, but not 1820. When I asked about it, she said, "oh, I just picked a date."
> > Now it's possible there was some fighting going on in 1820 in some obscure place. But she hadn't done her research, and I picked up on it. I'm not a historian, so if I picked up on it, so would just about anyone who read the piece.
> > Lori
> >
> > On Jul 11, 2010, at 5:45:43 PM, "James H. \" <n6yr at sunflower.com> wrote:
> >
> > From: "James H. \" <n6yr at sunflower.com>
> > Subject: Re: [stylist] Novel Outlines
> > Date: July 11, 2010 5:45:43 PM EDT
> > To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> > Joe,
> > if you look back a few issues of slate and style, you can find my?
> > article "herding your ideas" where I deal with this.
> >
> > outlines are not the end all and be all.
> > I think for nonfiction they're pretty much a requirement for a piece?
> > of over 500-words. but for fiction, authors have used all kinds of methods.
> >
> > for organizing fiction writing for myself I don't use something like?
> > an outline, nowhere near that organized or precise.
> > I take ideas and elements and string them together into what I call a?
> > "sketch" just written like a paragraph only I use telegraphic?
> > language since I'm the only one who's reading it.
> > then I can go back and stick in other elements or cross connections?
> > once I have the plot line put together.
> >
> > as I write from one of these, I sometimes find I have to reorganize?
> > during the composition, usually putting things together in a different order.
> >
> > some authors journal while they write. the journals allow them to?
> > quickly put down ideas related to other story elements where they're?
> > not composing at the time, or to other pieces?
> > altogether. journalizing allows those ideas to be dealt with quickly?
> > to avoid distraction during composition.
> >
> > hope this helps Joe.
> > jc
> >
> > At 02:55 PM 7/11/2010, you wrote:
> >?
> >> Hello all,
> >>
> >> Okay, so my so-called novel is coming along at a decent hum. Who knows if
> >> it will ever amount to anything, but damn it, at least it's coming along!
> >> So, my question: How many of you guys use outlines to write, and if you do,
> >> what kind of format do you use? I'm considering a few different outcomes,
> >> and although I always hesitated to use outlines for anything other than
> >> academic pieces, I think I'd better become more organized. Any thoughts,
> >> tips, suggestions would be most appreciated. Thanks.
> >>
> >> Joe
> >>
> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
> >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Writers Division web site:
> >> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
> >>
> >> stylist mailing list
> >> stylist at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for stylist:
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/n6yr%40sunflower.com
> >>?
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Writers Division web site:
> > http://www.nfb-writers-division.org <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
> >
> > stylist mailing list
> > stylist at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for stylist:
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/loristay%40aol.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Writers Division web site:
> > http://www.nfb-writers-division.org <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
> >
> > stylist mailing list
> > stylist at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for stylist:
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/penatwork%40epix.net
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > =======
> > Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found.
> > (Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.15420)
> > http://www.pctools.com/
> > =======
> >
> >?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> =======
> Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found.
> (Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.15420)
> http://www.pctools.com/
> =======
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
> 
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for stylist:
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> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 22:44:13 -0500
> From: "James H. \"Jim\" Canaday M.A. N6YR" <n6yr at sunflower.com>
> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Novel Outlines/research
> Message-ID: <201007140344.o6E3iH2N009291 at smtp.sunflower.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed
> 
> 1820,
> possible indian wars.
> 
> Aricara 1823. nothing in 1820.
> foreign wars:
> 1820-1829
> 
> 1820-23 ? Africa. Naval units raided the slave traffic pursuant to the 1819
> act of Congress.
> [RL30172]
> [Slave Traffic]
> 
> 1822 ? Cuba. United States naval forces 
> suppressing piracy landed on the northwest coast 
> of Cuba and burned a pirate station.
> [RL30172]
> 
> 1823 ? Cuba. Brief landings in pursuit of pirates occurred April 8 near
> Escondido
> ; April 16 near
> Cayo Blanco
> ; July 11 at
> Siquapa Bay
> ; July 21 at
> Cape Cruz
> ; and October 23 at
> Camrioca.
> [RL30172]
> 
> 1824 ? Cuba. In October the
> USS Porpoise
> landed
> bluejackets
> near
> Matanzas
> in pursuit of pirates. This was during the cruise authorized in 1822.
> [RL30172]
> 
> 1824 ?
> Puerto Rico
> (Spanish territory). Commodore
> David Porter
> with a landing party attacked the town of
> Fajardo
> which had sheltered pirates and insulted 
> American naval officers. He landed with 200 men 
> in November and forced an apology. Commodore Porter was later
> court-martialed for overstepping his powers.
> [RL30172]
> 
> 1825 ? Cuba. In March cooperating American and British forces landed at
> Sagua La Grande
> to capture pirates.
> [RL30172]
> 
> 1827 ? Greece. In October and November landing parties hunted pirates on the
> Mediterranean
> islands of
> Argenteire,
> Myconos
> , and
> Andros.
> 
> 
> jc
> 
> At 07:39 PM 7/13/2010, you wrote:
> >I don't use outlines per se. Sometimes I'll 
> >write a short story, then expand on that. If I 
> >know how it ends, well and good. I don't 
> >always. That sometimes means I have to toss out material that doesn't work.
> >
> >What I do find some writers do is to write 
> >without researching, and then they get caught in 
> >a glaring error. One recently gave me material 
> >to read in which she said her main character's 
> >father died in battle in 1820. So I asked, who 
> >was fighting in the U.S. in 1820? I knew about 
> >the war of 1812, and the Alamo, which I'm told 
> >is 1836, and the civil war, about 1858, but not 
> >1820. When I asked about it, she said, "oh, I just picked a date."
> >Now it's possible there was some fighting going 
> >on in 1820 in some obscure place. But she 
> >hadn't done her research, and I picked up on 
> >it. I'm not a historian, so if I picked up on 
> >it, so would just about anyone who read the piece.
> >Lori
> >
> >On Jul 11, 2010, at 5:45:43 PM, "James H. \" <n6yr at sunflower.com> wrote:
> >
> >From: "James H. \" <n6yr at sunflower.com>
> >Subject: Re: [stylist] Novel Outlines
> >Date: July 11, 2010 5:45:43 PM EDT
> >To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> >Joe,
> >if you look back a few issues of slate and style, you can find my
> >article "herding your ideas" where I deal with this.
> >
> >outlines are not the end all and be all.
> >I think for nonfiction they're pretty much a requirement for a piece
> >of over 500-words. but for fiction, authors have used all kinds of methods.
> >
> >for organizing fiction writing for myself I don't use something like
> >an outline, nowhere near that organized or precise.
> >I take ideas and elements and string them together into what I call a
> >"sketch" just written like a paragraph only I use telegraphic
> >language since I'm the only one who's reading it.
> >then I can go back and stick in other elements or cross connections
> >once I have the plot line put together.
> >
> >as I write from one of these, I sometimes find I have to reorganize
> >during the composition, usually putting things together in a different order.
> >
> >some authors journal while they write. the journals allow them to
> >quickly put down ideas related to other story elements where they're
> >not composing at the time, or to other pieces
> >altogether. journalizing allows those ideas to be dealt with quickly
> >to avoid distraction during composition.
> >
> >hope this helps Joe.
> >jc
> >
> >At 02:55 PM 7/11/2010, you wrote:
> > > Hello all,
> > >
> > >Okay, so my so-called novel is coming along at a decent hum. Who knows if
> > >it will ever amount to anything, but damn it, at least it's coming along!
> > >So, my question: How many of you guys use outlines to write, and if you do,
> > >what kind of format do you use? I'm considering a few different outcomes,
> > >and although I always hesitated to use outlines for anything other than
> > >academic pieces, I think I'd better become more organized. Any thoughts,
> > >tips, suggestions would be most appreciated. Thanks.
> > >
> > >Joe
> > >
> > >"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
> > >some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
> > >
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >Writers Division web site:
> > >http://www.nfb-writers-division.org <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
> > >
> > >stylist mailing list
> > >stylist at nfbnet.org
> > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or 
> > get your account info for stylist:
> > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_n 
> > fbnet.org/n6yr%40sunflower.com
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Writers Division web site:
> >http://www.nfb-writers-division.org <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
> >
> >stylist mailing list
> >stylist at nfbnet.org
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for stylist:
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/loristay%40aol.com
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Writers Division web site:
> >http://www.nfb-writers-division.org <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
> >
> >stylist mailing list
> >stylist at nfbnet.org
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for stylist:
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/n6yr%40sunflower.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 8
> Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 23:07:02 -0500
> From: "James H. \"Jim\" Canaday M.A. N6YR" <n6yr at sunflower.com>
> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Novel Outlines/research
> Message-ID: <201007140407.o6E4737H011913 at smtp.sunflower.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
> 
> these days Lori,
> it is so cool to read the local paper of some locale online! you 
> can often get all kinds of such info.
> jc
> 
> At 10:40 PM 7/13/2010, you wrote:
> >Agreed. I've had my own adventures with lack of research, mainly 
> >about the character of places. If not for my travel (Join NFB, see 
> >the country!), I'd still be thinking Beverly Hills was flat, that 
> >Boston was mapped like a grid, that the hills in Ithaca were 
> >actually climbable... Well, you get the idea. I have had to junk a 
> >couple of stories because the geography wasn't like Long Island, 
> >which is flat, flat, flat, and reasonably navigable, with the 
> >exception of Levittown.
> >Lori
> >On Jul 13, 2010, at 9:58:16 PM, "Donna Hill" <penatwork at epix.net> wrote:
> >
> >From: "Donna Hill" <penatwork at epix.net>
> >Subject: Re: [stylist] Novel Outlines/research
> >Date: July 13, 2010 9:58:16 PM EDT
> >To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> >Hi Lori,
> >Thanks for sharing this. I think it is so important to be well informed,
> >accurate and consistent in writing. Calling it fiction doesn't excuse
> >anything. The more realistic your work is -- even the fantasies -- the
> >more believable. There might have been some battles with native
> >Americans in 1820, but your budding author friend should have
> >thought/researched her subject a bit more thoroughly. It is amazing how
> >little things like that can ruin a perfectly good story.
> >
> >Donna
> >
> >Read Donna's articles on
> >Suite 101:
> >www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
> >American Chronicle:
> >www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885
> >
> >Connect with Donna on
> >Twitter:
> >www.twitter.com/dewhill
> >LinkedIn:
> >www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
> >FaceBook:
> >www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.
> >
> >Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at:
> >cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
> >Apple I-Tunes
> >phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=259244374
> >
> >Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project
> >Donna is Head of Media Relations for the nonprofit
> >Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind:
> >www.padnfb.org
> >
> >
> >
> >loristay wrote:
> > > I don't use outlines per se. Sometimes I'll write a short story, 
> > then expand on that. If I know how it ends, well and good. I don't 
> > always. That sometimes means I have to toss out material that doesn't work.
> > >
> > > What I do find some writers do is to write without researching, 
> > and then they get caught in a glaring error. One recently gave me 
> > material to read in which she said her main character's father died 
> > in battle in 1820. So I asked, who was fighting in the U.S. in 
> > 1820? I knew about the war of 1812, and the Alamo, which I'm told 
> > is 1836, and the civil war, about 1858, but not 1820. When I asked 
> > about it, she said, "oh, I just picked a date."
> > > Now it's possible there was some fighting going on in 1820 in 
> > some obscure place. But she hadn't done her research, and I picked 
> > up on it. I'm not a historian, so if I picked up on it, so would 
> > just about anyone who read the piece.
> > > Lori
> > >
> > > On Jul 11, 2010, at 5:45:43 PM, "James H. \" <n6yr at sunflower.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > From: "James H. \" <n6yr at sunflower.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [stylist] Novel Outlines
> > > Date: July 11, 2010 5:45:43 PM EDT
> > > To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> > > Joe,
> > > if you look back a few issues of slate and style, you can find my
> > > article "herding your ideas" where I deal with this.
> > >
> > > outlines are not the end all and be all.
> > > I think for nonfiction they're pretty much a requirement for a piece
> > > of over 500-words. but for fiction, authors have used all kinds of methods.
> > >
> > > for organizing fiction writing for myself I don't use something like
> > > an outline, nowhere near that organized or precise.
> > > I take ideas and elements and string them together into what I call a
> > > "sketch" just written like a paragraph only I use telegraphic
> > > language since I'm the only one who's reading it.
> > > then I can go back and stick in other elements or cross connections
> > > once I have the plot line put together.
> > >
> > > as I write from one of these, I sometimes find I have to reorganize
> > > during the composition, usually putting things together in a 
> > different order.
> > >
> > > some authors journal while they write. the journals allow them to
> > > quickly put down ideas related to other story elements where they're
> > > not composing at the time, or to other pieces
> > > altogether. journalizing allows those ideas to be dealt with quickly
> > > to avoid distraction during composition.
> > >
> > > hope this helps Joe.
> > > jc
> > >
> > > At 02:55 PM 7/11/2010, you wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hello all,
> > >>
> > >> Okay, so my so-called novel is coming along at a decent hum. Who knows if
> > >> it will ever amount to anything, but damn it, at least it's coming along!
> > >> So, my question: How many of you guys use outlines to write, and 
> > if you do,
> > >> what kind of format do you use? I'm considering a few different outcomes,
> > >> and although I always hesitated to use outlines for anything other than
> > >> academic pieces, I think I'd better become more organized. Any thoughts,
> > >> tips, suggestions would be most appreciated. Thanks.
> > >>
> > >> Joe
> > >>
> > >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
> > >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
> > >>
> > >>
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> End of stylist Digest, Vol 75, Issue 8
> **************************************

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