[stylist] Past simple and perfect
loristay
loristay at aol.com
Thu Jun 10 00:25:30 UTC 2010
The book you want is "The Elements of Style," by Strunk and White. I believe it is available from NLS .
Lori
On Jun 9, 2010, at 3:59:36 PM, "Bridgit Pollpeter" <bpollpeter at hotmail.com> wrote:
From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" <bpollpeter at hotmail.com>
Subject: [stylist] Past simple and perfect
Date: June 9, 2010 3:59:36 PM EDT
To: "writers division" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Dear list,
There are rules that apply for all tenses. More is involved than how we feel the words should sound. A great style book to refer to is by White and Strunk. It is simple, but provides rules of grammar and style.
I do not always explain things properly. Many have given good examples, but again, I point out there are specific rules for usage.
Simple definition, we all get past tense: I walked to the store to find the flowers Annie liked.
Past perfect places verbs to show that we are in the past, but talking about something even more in the past (yes, I know I am not using proper grammar here! *smile*)
Annie had bought the flowers when she use to walk through the park.
The first sentence is in the past, but the second shows something further away. Like a reminiscent. If you said Annie bought the flowers when walking through the park, the action is in that moment even thought it is past tense. Saying Annie had bought places the tense in a time not current. Like if I am in 1978, but talking about something in 1971. Is that clear as mud?
And yes, it is possible to switch from these tenses from sentence to sentence as long as it makes sense. Here is an example from my own writing:
Her mom pressed the call light and prepared for the inevitable wait. She stared at the wires and tubes that stuck all over her daughter. (it switches here because the mother is recalling something from the past even though the over-all tense is past) The main line sticking from her daughter?s protruding collar bone had taken an hour to put in. Her mom recalled the frustration of the nurse who attempted to glide the line through her daughter?s collapsed veins. Sweat had formed on the nurse?s brow and she had seemed ready to give up. The blood that spurted from her daughter?s vein had made her nauseous, but she had gripped the bed until she had almost passed out. Her daughter had laid there unable to cry from the dehydration that left her face hollow.
Basically this is a way to identify the past when already in the past.
Bridgit
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Past Simple and Perfect Usage (Neil Butters)
> 2. Re: Past Simple and Perfect Usage (Angela Fowler)
> 3. Re: Past Simple and Perfect Usage (Neil Butters)
> 4. Re: Past Tense Usage Question (loristay)
> 5. Re: Past Tense Usage Question (loristay)
> 6. Re: Past Simple and Perfect Usage (Donna Hill)
> 7. Re: Past Simple and Perfect Usage (Donna Hill)
> 8. Fw: Stephen Kearney was recently inducted into theUnited
> States Association of Blind athletes (Judith Bron)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 13:06:28 -0400
> From: "Neil Butters" <neil.butters at sympatico.ca>
> To: <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [stylist] Past Simple and Perfect Usage
> Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP34366E92E288C355340366E2D60 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hello All,
>
> I have a question about using the past simple and past perfect. I know that when a story is told in the past simple, flashbacks or anything else that took place previously use the past perfect. But I have read many stories told in the past simple that abandon that rule in flashback paragraphs. Typically, the author switches from the perfect to simple in the same paragraph even though the whole thing describes a past event. Here is an example from The Last Great Clown Hunt, a story told in the past simple:
>
> I had glimpsed the stilt dancers only once. Billy Boy and I were watching them through a gap in the big top when the shaman caught us. He ran me off; he allowed Billy Boy to stay. I still had a hard time picturing Billy Boy as one of them. To me he'd always seemed like a clown wannabe.
>
> So why is the past perfect used in the first sentence, "I had glimpsed," but not in subsequenbt sentences? Why not "Billy Boy and I had watched...?" Or "he had allowed...?"
>
> Thanks for the help.
>
> Neil
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 10:50:52 -0700
> From: "Angela Fowler" <fowlers at syix.com>
> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Past Simple and Perfect Usage
> Message-ID: <88084C6062E24884A048297CB1406AC6 at AngelaPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Whoa, this one's over my head. Obviously the past simple and past perfect
> are forms of the past tense, but what is the difference between the two?
> Angela
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Neil Butters
> Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 10:06 AM
> To: stylist at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [stylist] Past Simple and Perfect Usage
>
> Hello All,
>
> I have a question about using the past simple and past perfect. I know that
> when a story is told in the past simple, flashbacks or anything else that
> took place previously use the past perfect. But I have read many stories
> told in the past simple that abandon that rule in flashback paragraphs.
> Typically, the author switches from the perfect to simple in the same
> paragraph even though the whole thing describes a past event. Here is an
> example from The Last Great Clown Hunt, a story told in the past simple:
>
> I had glimpsed the stilt dancers only once. Billy Boy and I were watching
> them through a gap in the big top when the shaman caught us. He ran me off;
> he allowed Billy Boy to stay. I still had a hard time picturing Billy Boy as
> one of them. To me he'd always seemed like a clown wannabe.
>
> So why is the past perfect used in the first sentence, "I had glimpsed," but
> not in subsequenbt sentences? Why not "Billy Boy and I had watched...?" Or
> "he had allowed...?"
>
> Thanks for the help.
>
> Neil
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
> stylist mailing list
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 15:12:55 -0400
> From: "Neil Butters" <neil.butters at sympatico.ca>
> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Past Simple and Perfect Usage
> Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP12D436DC4FC0FC43893E09E2D60 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Hi Angela and Everybody,
>
> >From a grammar book I use:
>
> Past tense: I ate pizza last night.
> Past perfect tense: I had eaten pizza just before you arrived.
>
> And it continued rather unhelpfully:
>
> If you think clearly about what you're trying to say, usually the choice of
> verb tenses will be obvious.
>
> But as I said in my question, I've seen flashback paragraphs in which both
> the past simple and perfect seem to have been used interchangeably.
>
> Neil
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Angela Fowler" <fowlers at syix.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 1:50 PM
> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Past Simple and Perfect Usage
>
> > Whoa, this one's over my head. Obviously the past simple and past perfect
> > are forms of the past tense, but what is the difference between the two?
> > Angela
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> > Behalf Of Neil Butters
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 10:06 AM
> > To: stylist at nfbnet.org
> > Subject: [stylist] Past Simple and Perfect Usage
> >
> > Hello All,
> >
> > I have a question about using the past simple and past perfect. I know
> > that
> > when a story is told in the past simple, flashbacks or anything else that
> > took place previously use the past perfect. But I have read many stories
> > told in the past simple that abandon that rule in flashback paragraphs.
> > Typically, the author switches from the perfect to simple in the same
> > paragraph even though the whole thing describes a past event. Here is an
> > example from The Last Great Clown Hunt, a story told in the past simple:
> >
> > I had glimpsed the stilt dancers only once. Billy Boy and I were watching
> > them through a gap in the big top when the shaman caught us. He ran me
> > off;
> > he allowed Billy Boy to stay. I still had a hard time picturing Billy Boy
> > as
> > one of them. To me he'd always seemed like a clown wannabe.
> >
> > So why is the past perfect used in the first sentence, "I had glimpsed,"
> > but
> > not in subsequenbt sentences? Why not "Billy Boy and I had watched...?" Or
> > "he had allowed...?"
> >
> > Thanks for the help.
> >
> > Neil
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Writers Division web site:
> > http://www.nfb-writers-division.org <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
> >
> > stylist mailing list
> > stylist at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > stylist:
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/fowlers%40syix.com
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Writers Division web site:
> > http://www.nfb-writers-division.org <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
> >
> > stylist mailing list
> > stylist at nfbnet.org
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> > stylist:
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> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2010 15:20:39 -0400
> From: loristay <loristay at aol.com>
> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Past Tense Usage Question
> Message-ID: <2F323C67.DDBC.4FCF.8798.1D35A30BA514 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> The past perfect is used properly here. ?Its presence in the first sentence indicates when the action took place, that is, in the past of the past tense. ?Once you know when the action is taking place, you don't need the past perfect anymore. ?It gets intrusive after awhile.
> Lori
> On Jun 8, 2010, at 11:46:09 AM, "Neil Butters" <neil.butters at sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> From: "Neil Butters" <neil.butters at sympatico.ca>
> Subject: [stylist] Past Tense Usage Question
> Date: June 8, 2010 11:46:09 AM EDT
> To: stylist at nfbnet.org
> Hello All,
>
> I have a question about the past simple and past perfect tenses.
>
> I know when a story is told in the past simple, the past perfect is used for flashbacks or anything else that happened previously. But I have read many stories told in the past simple that seem to ignore that rule in flashback paragraphs. Here is an example from The Last Great Clown Hunt, which is a short story written in the past simple.
>
> I had glimpsed the stilt dancers only once. Billy Boy and I were watching them through a gap in the big top when the shaman caught us. He ran me off; he
> allowed Billy Boy to stay. I still had a hard time picturing Billy Boy as one of them. To me he'd always seemed like a clown wannabe.
>
> So why is the past perfect used in the first sentence, cne?
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2010 15:44:15 -0400
> From: loristay <loristay at aol.com>
> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Past Tense Usage Question
> Message-ID: <78A94068.EFEC.49F1.8635.B2EE92518B39 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> On second review, the past perfect is indicated here in more than one sentence: ?Billy Boy and I were watching--is one. ?Another is I still had a hard time ... ?And the third is he'd always seemed, where he'd is an abbreviation for he had. ?But I do maintain that usually one will indicate via the past perfect that the scene is in the past (i.e. not in the present action), and that after that, it isn't as necessary to use the word "had."
> Lori
> On Jun 8, 2010, at 3:20:39 PM, loristay <loristay at aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> I had glimpsed the stilt dancers only once. Billy Boy and I were watching them through a gap in the big top when the shaman caught us. He ran me off; he
> allowed Billy Boy to stay. I still had a hard time picturing Billy Boy as one of them. To me he'd always seemed like a clown wannabe.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2010 17:08:40 -0400
> From: Donna Hill <penatwork at epix.net>
> To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Past Simple and Perfect Usage
> Message-ID: <4C0EB158.8080401 at epix.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Interesting question. I do this myself, but don't have a rule I can
> assign to it. I hope there is one, because it sure does get wordy and
> cumbersome if you are really supposed to use the past perfect every time.
> Donna
>
> Donna's articles on Suite 101:
> http://www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
>
> Free Download: "Love of My Life"
> http://www.passionsandpossibilities.com/guest-blogger-donna-hill-advocate-for-the-blind/
>
> Read my articles on American Chronicle:
> http://www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885
>
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>
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>
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>
> phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=259244374
>
> Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind
> www.padnfb.org
>
>
> On 6/8/2010 1:06 PM, Neil Butters wrote:
> > Hello All,
> >
> > I have a question about using the past simple and past perfect. I know that when a story is told in the past simple, flashbacks or anything else that took place previously use the past perfect. But I have read many stories told in the past simple that abandon that rule in flashback paragraphs. Typically, the author switches from the perfect to simple in the same paragraph even though the whole thing describes a past event. Here is an example from The Last Great Clown Hunt, a story told in the past simple:
> >
> > I had glimpsed the stilt dancers only once. Billy Boy and I were watching them through a gap in the big top when the shaman caught us. He ran me off; he allowed Billy Boy to stay. I still had a hard time picturing Billy Boy as one of them. To me he'd always seemed like a clown wannabe.
> >
> > So why is the past perfect used in the first sentence, "I had glimpsed," but not in subsequenbt sentences? Why not "Billy Boy and I had watched...?" Or "he had allowed...?"
> >
> > Thanks for the help.
> >
> > Neil
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Writers Division web site:
> > http://www.nfb-writers-division.org<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
> >
> > stylist mailing list
> > stylist at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for stylist:
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/penatwork%40epix.net
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2010 18:25:21 -0400
> From: Donna Hill <penatwork at epix.net>
> To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Past Simple and Perfect Usage
> Message-ID: <4C0EC351.1000004 at epix.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Hi Angela,
> The past and past perfect tenses give you a way of differentiating
> between something that happened and something else that happened before
> that point. "When I was six, we lived (past tense) in Palmer township.
> We had moved (past perfect) there when I was three." I don't remember
> specifically calling it "simple" though that's just as good a word as any.
>
> If you are talking about the errands you did yesterday, you might say,
> "I went to the store yesterday. I had already been to the doctor's."
>
> There's also a future perfect tense to indicate a point in the future
> when something is already in the past, "By next Tuesday, I will have
> talked to several people about this."
>
> And, of course, there is a present perfect, "I have taken care of that."
> "I have talked to him about this." "He has been a member of NFB for ten
> years." This is the one which confuses me the most. After all, it's
> present tense but clearly all of the actions were at least initiated in
> the past. The best way I can describe the connection here is that the
> present perfect is used to suggest an ongoing state. It's easy to see it
> in the sentence in which the man has been a member for ten years. The
> other sentences present me with a bit more of a challenge to explain.
> Think of the difference in these sentences: I took care of that
> problem." "I have taken care of that problem." " Both sentences are
> correct and essentially have the same meaning. Saying it in the past
> tense, however, has a sense of fait accompli. Using the present perfect
> suggests to me that there is still a sense of basking in the
> accomplishment. With the sentences "I have talked to him about that" and
> it's simple past cousin "I talked to him about that," the first one
> conjures up images of an ongoing frustration. "John is having problems
> with Mark's drinking, and I have talked to Mark about that." It's like
> the futility is still hanging in the air. If I say, "John is having
> problems with Marks drinking, I talked to Mark about that," I get the
> sense that the speaker has either washed their hands of the matter or
> believes their talk made a difference.
>
> These little nuances of meaning and inference -- my interpretation is
> probably not the same as someone elses's -- are IMO what makes it so
> challenging to communicate. When we talk face to face or on the phone,
> our tone of voice, inflection and body language help sort out the
> subtleties, but the written word stands without such helpers.
>
> Perhaps someone else will weigh in on this.
>
> In all three perfect tenses, some form of "to have" is used in
> conjunction with the past participle of a verb.
> HTH,
> Donna
>
> Donna's articles on Suite 101:
> http://www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
>
> Free Download: "Love of My Life"
> http://www.passionsandpossibilities.com/guest-blogger-donna-hill-advocate-for-the-blind/
>
> Read my articles on American Chronicle:
> http://www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885
>
> Follow me on Twitter:
> www.twitter.com/dewhill
>
> Join Me on LinkedIn:
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
>
> Or, FaceBook:
> http://www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.
>
> Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at:
> http://cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
>
> Apple I-Tunes
>
> phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=259244374
>
> Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind
> www.padnfb.org
>
>
> On 6/8/2010 1:50 PM, Angela Fowler wrote:
> > Whoa, this one's over my head. Obviously the past simple and past perfect
> > are forms of the past tense, but what is the difference between the two?
> > Angela
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> > Behalf Of Neil Butters
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 10:06 AM
> > To:stylist at nfbnet.org
> > Subject: [stylist] Past Simple and Perfect Usage
> >
> > Hello All,
> >
> > I have a question about using the past simple and past perfect. I know that
> > when a story is told in the past simple, flashbacks or anything else that
> > took place previously use the past perfect. But I have read many stories
> > told in the past simple that abandon that rule in flashback paragraphs.
> > Typically, the author switches from the perfect to simple in the same
> > paragraph even though the whole thing describes a past event. Here is an
> > example from The Last Great Clown Hunt, a story told in the past simple:
> >
> > I had glimpsed the stilt dancers only once. Billy Boy and I were watching
> > them through a gap in the big top when the shaman caught us. He ran me off;
> > he allowed Billy Boy to stay. I still had a hard time picturing Billy Boy as
> > one of them. To me he'd always seemed like a clown wannabe.
> >
> > So why is the past perfect used in the first sentence, "I had glimpsed," but
> > not in subsequenbt sentences? Why not "Billy Boy and I had watched...?" Or
> > "he had allowed...?"
> >
> > Thanks for the help.
> >
> > Neil
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Writers Division web site:
> > http://www.nfb-writers-division.org <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
> >
> > stylist mailing list
> > stylist at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > stylist:
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/fowlers%40syix.com
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Writers Division web site:
> > http://www.nfb-writers-division.org <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
> >
> > stylist mailing list
> > stylist at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for stylist:
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/penatwork%40epix.net
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > =======
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> >
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>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2010 09:26:24 -0400
> From: Judith Bron <jbron at optonline.net>
> To: LoriStay at aol.com
> Cc: Stylist <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [stylist] Fw: Stephen Kearney was recently inducted into
> theUnited States Association of Blind athletes
> Message-ID: <000701cb07d7$5bbe43b0$3302a8c0 at dell5150>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Great article. Enjoy, JB
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Nancy Lynn
> To: ACB List ; ccb list ; Mikes Mess List
> Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 8:52 AM
> Subject: Stephen Kearney was recently inducted into theUnited States Association of Blind athletes
>
>
> Stephen Kearney was recently inducted into the United States Association of Blind
> Athletes Hall of Fame.
> June 8, 2010
> Longtime educator inducted into Blind Athletes Hall of Fame
> By Kenton Brooks
> Phoenix Sports Writer
> - Stephen Kearney remembers being curious on that first day when he stepped onto
> the campus for his first day to work at the Oklahoma School for the Blind in Muskogee.
> "I always wondered where they kept the dogs," he said. "I wanted to know how a guide
> dog works."
> But there were no dogs for the children because of their blindness.
> That day, though, started an association with blind athletes that lasted 38 years
> until his retirement in 2009. Along the way, he' s traveled around the world to such
> places such as Greece and China in coaching and working with these special athletes.
> It also took him to the University of Delaware this past weekend to receive induction
> into the United States Association of Blind Athletes Hall of Fame. He was the head
> coach of the gold medal-winning goalball team in the 1984 Paralympics in New York.
> The Paralympics, held once every four years and two weeks after the Olympics, are
> multi-sport events for athletes with physical disabilities including blindness. Goalball
> is a sport where three-member teams try to roll a ball equipped with bells into an
> opposing team's net.
> He's had other duties in working at the Paralympics. But coaching that 1984 goalball
> team to a gold medal will always remain a highlight for Kearney.
> No other men's team from USA has won gold in the sport since.
> Oklahoma City native John Cutliff was on the six-member squad that also included
> athletes from Missouri, Illinois, New Mexico, Kentucky and New Jersey.
> "I picked the best guys from other teams," the 61-year-old Kearney recalled.
> Kearney's team rallied from early losses and went through the loser's bracket to
> beat Egypt for the gold medal in 1984.
> "Because of the all effort we put in, it was exciting for the guys to accomplish
> their goal," he said. "It was a great experience."
> A Tuisa native, Kearney didn't need or have any special training or education to
> work with blind athletes.
> "My name was put in with 10 other people at the same time at the (Northeastern State
> University) placement office," he said. "Our packets were sent to the (School for
> the Blind) as they were looking to start the recreation program. I was the first
> resume and V.R. Carter (then the superintendent of the school) called and wanted
> to know if I wanted a job. I gave myself a half of the year.
> "I was lucky to be the first on the list. I have no idea why I was. It was an opportunity
> to do something positive and fun with kids who had disabilities. There wasn't the
> stress these other coaches get into or how they move school to school. And 38 years
> later, here I am."
> Kearney learned about patience over those 38 years.
> "If you've got vision, you can learn by sight but with these kids, you've got to
> go through the motions and explain it to them," he said. "Once they get it, it's
> a pretty neat accomplishment to see them being able to do things and react like anyone
> else."
> Kearney, who majored in physical education and business, eventually became the school's
> wrestling coach.
> "I didn't know I would go in this direction," he said. "If it hadn't been for the
> School for the Blind, I wouldn't have been able to travel all over the world like
> I have. It's been an unique deal, a fun deal. I just happened to be in the right
> spot. The School for the Blind has been very good to me."
>
>
> ------------------------------
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>
> End of stylist Digest, Vol 74, Issue 10
> ***************************************
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