[stylist] Literary Fiction and HP

Thu Sep 2 21:24:08 UTC 2010

Bridgit,

My senior seminar professor would have a conniption if he read your
interpretation of literary fiction, but yes, I completely agree.

I feel Harry Potter is a great work of literature.  At first I'm not sure
that I was buying into all the friggity-wiggerty nonsense of the magical
kingdom, but you know, even in the first book there is a foreshadowing of
the serious topics to come.  Consider this quotation, which I've never
forgotten:

"There is no good or evil: only power and those too weak to seek it."

I mean, it still gives me chills, and this was in the first book which is
arguably the worst in the series.

It wasn't until the third or fourth book that I realized much of her
material was based on mythology.  I can assure you I would never dedicate as
much patient research to a novel as she did.

Now, Stephenie Meyer's writing is not as good, but whereas J.K. Rowling is a
superb feast, Meyer is a healthy stew in winter.  I'm going to eventually
read the last book in the Twilight series, but it's more out of curiosity to
find out what happens more than an uncontrollable urge to figure out what
happens, if that makes sense.  The Twilight books are something to enjoy but
nothing to fawn over, but the great thing about Meyer is that she knows her
strengths.  She said she included the baseball scene in the first book just
because it would be a lot of fun to write about it, even though she knows it
contributes nothing to the plot.  I thought that was great!  It shows
genuine love of her work, and I therefore feel more inclined to appreciate
it at least half as much.

I went and download The Name of the Wind.  I hope it lives up to this
comparison to Potter.  I'd previously read this one book called Magician
something or other, and it sorely disappointed.

Best,

Joe

"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing 

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bridgit Pollpeter
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 11:02 AM
To: writers division
Subject: [stylist] (no subject)

Jo,

Literary fiction, in my opinion, is a bit of a bull shit 
description.  Typically it is considered different from genre 
fiction such as detective, romance or western, and it usually 
has a certain style of language and style ascribed to it.  
However, many find it difficult to truly define literary 
fiction and what constitutes as this type of fiction.  In basic 
terms, it is fiction that has literary value, but you can see 
where the problem lays in that.

Some examples of literary fiction often are writers such as 
Toni Morrison (who I love) Faulkner and Alice Walker, just off 
the top of my head.  Personally I think literary fiction has 
become a way for certain people in the literary world to call 
some types of fiction bad.  It is a snob!  *smile*

I am not so much asking if HP is literary fiction based on 
social definitions, but rather if Rowling's writing's have any 
true sense of literary value.

I agree with those who commented on Rowling's ability to cross 
genders, races and ages, to grab our attention and keep us 
interested to the end.  Whether or not the pratts in the 
publishing world want to give her work true literary merit 
doesn't matter as long as readers are intrigued.  Who cares 
about awards and accolades if you don't have readers?  And I 
don't mean this in context of money.

Critics are split in half.  Some do not believe Harry Potter 
has much literary value despite its popularity, but others feel 
it is well written and deserves to be studied much like C. S. 
Lewis or Tolkien.  Goes to show how much perception counts.  *smile*

Bridgit

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
stylist-request at nfbnet.org
Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 12:00 PM
To: stylist at nfbnet.org
Subject: stylist Digest, Vol 77, Issue 1

Send stylist mailing list submissions to
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: FW: My Book has been published! NBP - Our Bookstore -   Hot
      off the Braille Press (Robert Leslie Newman)
   2. seeing with your tongue (Bridgit Pollpeter)
   3. Literary Merits in Harry Potter (Bridgit Pollpeter)
   4. Re: Literary Merits in Harry Potter (Joe Orozco)
   5. Re: Literary Merits in Harry Potter (loristay at aol.com)
   6. Re: a better use for tongues (Allison Nastoff)
   7. Re: Literary Merits in Harry Potter (Aziza C)
   8. Re: a better use for tongues (Pat Harmon)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 12:12:20 -0500
From: "Robert Leslie Newman" <newmanrl at cox.net>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] FW: My Book has been published! NBP - Our
      Bookstore - Hot   off the Braille Press
Message-ID: <23E71B6E246D4E2DB8FF5DCA9DEA4E2B at Newmans>
Content-Type: text/plain;     charset="us-ascii"

Sorry guys-

Toni's book is the one that is about using JAWS with Office 
2007. (Sorry for
my assumption that you all would remember that Toni has a 
couple of books
out there on JAWS and computer stuff." 

Thanks for your tolerance..

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Jacobson, Shawn D
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 9:25 AM
To: 'newmanrl at cox.net'; 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [stylist] FW: My Book has been published! NBP - 
Our Bookstore -
Hot off the Braille Press

Robert

Which book was Miss Toni's; I didn't see a title in the message.

Shawn

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Robert Leslie Newman
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 9:54 AM
To: writers nfb
Subject: [stylist] FW: My Book has been published! NBP - Our 
Bookstore - Hot
off the Braille Press

Here is an announcement! Good news for Miss Toni! 

-----Original Message-----
From: Toni [mailto:trfraser at sbcglobal.net] 
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 2:32 PM
To: Toni
Subject: My Book has been published! NBP - Our Bookstore - Hot off the
Braille Press

Hi all,
Fantastic News! My book has finally been published! Please 
check it out at
the link below! Please forward this information to anyone you 
feel would be
interested or could benefit from the book! 

http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/publications/hot_off.html

Toni Fraser 
Author!

_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site:
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org 
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>

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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 13:00:04 -0500
From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" <bpollpeter at hotmail.com>
To: <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [stylist] seeing with your tongue
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP19055DA3F7721D169966421C48A0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Jo and Lori and others,

To continue the dialogue in a friendly spirit, I wish to make one
comment.  Higher education, in today's world, is required despite a
disability or not.  Many employers are now seeking applicants with
masters and even doctorates.  My sister and I are college educated, and
not that I would say we have had an easy time of finding jobs, but we
tend to have better employment than my other sister and brother who do
not have any college education.

Unfortunately, the blind have to prove themselves much more and push
harder to even be considered.  This is true, but I disagree that it is
specific to the blind that a college education brings success.  Good
luck finding a job beyond fast food or casinos without higher education.

FYI, I do not necessarily believe university should be mandatory for
all.  I believe education is important, and it is good to be a
well-rounded person, but what happened to the days of apprenticeships
and learning on the job?  My uncle learned engineering on the job.  He
never saw a day of university, and he developed a system for the Omaha
Henry Doorly zoo's aquarium.

Also, I, too, do not recall anyone making a comment suggesting fetus's
with the potential for disabilities be destroyed.  I believe some one
commented that if all disease and disabilities could be eradicted, that
would be great, but no fetus killing.  It is unfortunate that people
would want to destroy a human life just because they were disabled,
although many past cultures practiced this, and some still do.  However,
despite personal beliefs, I think we can reach dangerous ground on this
subject.  Abortion (yes, I dare mention the word) is a touchy subject
for many, but I do not wish to judge.  I know this specific example was
about aborting fetuses with disabilities, but I still wish to be
sensitive.  I know this issue is huge and many have strong opinions, but
I choose to put human feelings before political or even religious
agendas.  Nobody get their panties in a bunch here, I'm just saying such
subjects must be approached carefully and with tack.

I think it is disgusting that people would consider killing a person
(born or unborn) just because of a disability.  However, many face a
circumstance they do not always know how to deal with, and until you are
in those shoes, we can not truly say how we would react.  Caution is the
best option when addressing this issue.  And I am off my soap box now.

Bridgit

Bridgit

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of stylist-request at nfbnet.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 12:00 PM
To: stylist at nfbnet.org
Subject: stylist Digest, Vol 76, Issue 51

Send stylist mailing list submissions to
      stylist at nfbnet.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
      http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
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      stylist-request at nfbnet.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
      stylist-owner at nfbnet.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of stylist digest..."

Today's Topics:

   1. Re: seeing with your tongue (loristay)
   2. Re: seeing with your tongue (Joe Orozco)
   3. a better use for tongues (Chris Kuell)
   4. Re: a better use for tongues (Jacobson, Shawn D)
   5. FW: My Book has been published! NBP - Our Bookstore - Hot   off
      the Braille Press (Robert Leslie Newman)
   6. Re: a better use for tongues (KajunCutie926 at aol.com)
   7. Re: FW: My Book has been published! NBP - Our Bookstore -   Hot
      off t... (KajunCutie926 at aol.com)
   8. Re: FW: My Book has been published! NBP - Our Bookstore - Hot
      off the Braille Press (Jacobson, Shawn D)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 19:43:31 -0400
From: loristay <loristay at aol.com>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] seeing with your tongue
Message-ID: <BCC0A165.0F60.4A89.BAC8.0C360CE1A922 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I've been following some of this incredible discussion. ?Here are my
thoughts.
First, I have had blind babysitters, and have found them competent.
?Second, if a person has always been blind or has adjusted to blindness,
obtaining sight would give them a huge challenge. ?Third, there are some
benefits to blindness, providing the blind person has mastered the
skills of blindness.
1. ?Reading in the dark under the covers after lights out
2. ?Functioning perfectly well when there is a power outage. ?My husband
tells me he once stationed himself in his neighborhood and helped
sighted people find their homes when the east coast was blacked out.
3. ?The ability and privilege of assisting other blind people who have
not adjusted.
4. ?Being in the forefront of accessible technology (through the
Federation)

If he had not been blind, instead of attending college and getting his
masters, my husband would have had to drop out of high school to support
the family, the way his siblings did. ?He is the only one of five who
completed high school and established himself in a career.

There are other things, I suppose. ?The idea of stopping the development
of a fetus who might be disabled is abominable, and I am surprised at
the person who suggested it. ?If it had been done, we'd be missing
Homer, and Milton, and Steven Hawking--Well, maybe not Hawking, though
killing a disabled fetus and killing a disabled person don't seem that
different to me!
Be careful what you suggest. ?You never know who is reading your words.
Lori

On Aug 27, 2010, at 4:37:38 PM, "Anita Adkins" <aadkins7 at verizon.net>
wrote:

From:   "Anita Adkins" <aadkins7 at verizon.net>
Subject:    Re: [stylist] seeing with your tongue
Date:   August 27, 2010 4:37:38 PM EDT
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Hi,

I agree with you. I think it is okay for us to develop technology or for
us?
to search for cures for blindness. However, I also believe that we
should?
not sit and wait for this to happen, but that we should learn how to?
function now. So, learning nonvisual techniques and using them on a
regular?
basis is essential for all of us to do until the magical cure or
perfect?
piece of technology is available. And, I, too, do not know if I would
want?
vision if I could have it. I think of all of the crime and such, such
as?
people making out in public on a college campus, that I am fortunate
enough?
not to witness because of my blindness preventing me from seeing it.
Also,?
part of my personality stems from my being blind, and learning to live
with?
vision would be a challenge for me. The benefits would be the privelige
to?
have others hold high expectations of me. I could be automatically
trusted?
to babysit someone's kids, for instance. In saying that, I want to make?
sure to point out that many people do find me competent, but blindness
does?
have its little nuissances simply because people who are sighted do not?
understand it and are afraid of it. Therefore, they base what the blind
can?
do on what they believe they can or cannot do as a blind person. For?
example, the manager of my apartment building, who regularly witnesses
me?
walking to town, doing laundry, keeping house, and the like, concerns?
herself if something in the hall would present an obstacle for me to
fall?
over. The only way for her to build confidence, therefore, is for her
to?
actually perform tasks nonvisually. If I were sighted, I would not have
to?
deal with the nuissance of her treating me as if I were not a competent?
traveler. Just some thoughts. Anita
----- Original Message -----?
From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" <bpollpeter at hotmail.com>
To: <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 3:40 PM
Subject: [stylist] seeing with your tongue

> Dear list,
>
> I am not against research such as this product or any other products.
I
> don't think it is wrong for a blind person, whether from birth or
later
> in life, to want to experience sight. Sometimes we ostracize people
who
> make such comments and believe they are "bad" blind people who have a
> bad philosophy, but just because some one wishes to "see" does not
mean
> they are a bad example of a blind person. I too agree that the world
is
> not established for any disabilities, and, though much progress has
been
> made, accommodations and modifications can take time and funds not
> always readily available. So if a disability of any kind can be
> eliminated, then I say continue the research.
>
> Having said all this, I now make this point. I know far too many blind
> people who hear about such technology and sit and wait for the
> technology to catch up and become a product ready for the market.
> Instead of learning the tools and methods currently available to allow
> independence for the blind, they choose to wait for technology and
> science to "cure" them.
>
> I firmly believe that we must understand that we, as blind people,
> currently have every chance to be successful and independent. We talk
> about norms and acceptance, but the real issue is perception. We all
> know the struggle for society to accept us and embrace our abilities
> with open, trusting arms, but far to often this is not the case. Many
> of us have had people doubt our abilities even though we present an
> independent, confident image. Would it be easier to assimilate into
the
> world without a disability, most likely, but again, this is because
the
> established norm is based on not having a disability. So are we any
> closer to having technology or science that eliminates blindness, then
> we are to changing perceptions about blindness?
>
> Personally, and I myself am not sure why I feel this way, do not care
a
> whole lot if a "cure" is ever found, and I truly do not know if I
would
> take it. Hmmm... To be the only blind person in the world! Think of
> all the attention I would get! *smile*
>
> Seriously though, we need to accept our own capabilities and success
> whether or not other means eventual will exist allowing for sight. I
> also don't think it matters what point a person loses their vision, we
> all can learn and utilize tools and methods like Braille and cane
travel
> and be just as efficient, quick and safe as those with sight.
>
> So, I'm not against any research, but I also believe we need to
> understand that sight will not necessarily make life easier, but just
> different.
>
> Bridgit
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On
> Behalf Of stylist-request at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 12:00 PM
> To: stylist at nfbnet.org
> Subject: stylist Digest, Vol 76, Issue 47
>
> Send stylist mailing list submissions to
> stylist at nfbnet.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> stylist-request at nfbnet.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> stylist-owner at nfbnet.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of stylist digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. seeing with your tongue (Allison Nastoff)
> 2. Re: seeing with your tongue (Joe Orozco)
> 3. Writers' division- August Monthly Telephone Gathering
> (Robert Leslie Newman)
> 4. Re: seeing with your tongue (Donna Hill)
> 5. Re: Word Processing question (slery)
> 6. Re: seeing with your tongue (cheryl echevarria)
> 7. Re: seeing with your tongue (Robert Leslie Newman)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 20:47:45 -0500
> From: Allison Nastoff <anastoff at wi.rr.com>
> To: stylist at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [stylist] seeing with your tongue
> Message-ID: <79.27.18983.A59177C4 at hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Hi Everyone,
> Since this list has been talking about technology that would
> allow the blind to drive, I thought it would be interesting to
> start a discussion on a story I saw on yesterday's episode of
> Good Morning America. The story was about technology being
> developed that projects images on to the tongue using electrical
> signals that the blind can feel, which in a sense allows them to
> "see with their tongue". I hope you don't mind me cross posting
> this since it was discussed on another NFB list, but since it was
> off topic for that list, I thought it would be interesting to
> continue the discussion on this list.
> I also wanted to get your opinions because when I was in sixth
> grade, I participated in a research study for this technology at
> a local college when it was very early in its development. I
> dropped out of the study after the first year, and maybe in the
> years since, the technology has improved. But I remember that
> when I was in the study, the strip that I put on to my tongue
> extended from a large machine which sent the electrical
> stimulation to my tongue. This machine was connected to a camera
> which sent the images to a computer, and a board covered with
> cloth to create a white background also had to be set up behind
> the camera. So the point I am trying to make is that this was
> way too much gear to walk around my kitchen or go rock climbing
> with the way the blind participants did in this segment. But it
> also seemed kind of impractical because it was hard to tell what
> the shapes were, even when it came to braille dots which I read
> expertly with my fingers, and I know I can locate objects around
> the kitchen much faster with my fingers. Don't get me wrong.
> The concept of seeing with your tongue is pretty cool, and I
> understand how it could be useful for people like the man
> featured in this video since he went blind as an adult, but since
> I have been blind all of my life, I wonder if investing in this
> kind of technology makes sense, or if it would be more beneficial
> to invest the resources in teaching people to adapt to their
> blindness with the traditional, and I think more efficient way,
> using your fingers, ears and nose, or at least invest in
> technology that restores sight for real, rather than just coming
> up with some weird inefficient contraption to see with their
> tongue. What do you all think? Is there anyone else on this list
> who has participated in research for this kind of technology? If
> so, what were your feelings about it? I am always interested in
> getting other people's perspectives about innovations like this.
> Here is the link to the story.
> http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/helping-blind-people-tongues-1147
> 7360
> Allison Nastoff
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 21:59:04 -0400
> From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [stylist] seeing with your tongue
> Message-ID: <FFEA8EAB85C54B1F9190B18DE776DFDA at Rufus>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Dude, this for some reason makes me think of Harry Potter. Didn't he
> speak
> snake? (grin) No, in all seriousness though, I think people are
> generally
> well-intentioned in their desire to introduce technology that could
help
> blind people lead more enjoyable lives, but it's up to us to educate
> them on
> striking a balance between what would be useful and what would be
useful
> and
> draw unneeded attention. I can't comment on the concept of seeing
> through
> tasting, but I do believe that no matter where a blind person is in
her
> independence skills, ultimately she would want to be socially
accepted.
> That is, after all, the philosophy of the NFB, to adjust to the
> challenges
> of our environment. While I am vehemently opposed to the cars for the
> blind, I would rather we take the initiative than someone else dictate
> what
> these cars should look like. In my personal opinion, this is also true
> of
> echolocation. It might work for some folks, but even in my socially
> drunken
> days you would have never caught me cruising around clucking like a
> chicken.
>
> Best,
>
> Joe
>
> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
> sleeves,
> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Allison Nastoff
> Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 9:48 PM
> To: stylist at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [stylist] seeing with your tongue
>
> Hi Everyone,
> Since this list has been talking about technology that would
> allow the blind to drive, I thought it would be interesting to
> start a discussion on a story I saw on yesterday's episode of
> Good Morning America. The story was about technology being
> developed that projects images on to the tongue using electrical
> signals that the blind can feel, which in a sense allows them to
> "see with their tongue". I hope you don't mind me cross posting
> this since it was discussed on another NFB list, but since it was
> off topic for that list, I thought it would be interesting to
> continue the discussion on this list.
> I also wanted to get your opinions because when I was in sixth
> grade, I participated in a research study for this technology at
> a local college when it was very early in its development. I
> dropped out of the study after the first year, and maybe in the
> years since, the technology has improved. But I remember that
> when I was in the study, the strip that I put on to my tongue
> extended from a large machine which sent the electrical
> stimulation to my tongue. This machine was connected to a camera
> which sent the images to a computer, and a board covered with
> cloth to create a white background also had to be set up behind
> the camera. So the point I am trying to make is that this was
> way too much gear to walk around my kitchen or go rock climbing
> with the way the blind participants did in this segment. But it
> also seemed kind of impractical because it was hard to tell what
> the shapes were, even when it came to braille dots which I read
> expertly with my fingers, and I know I can locate objects around
> the kitchen much faster with my fingers. Don't get me wrong.
> The concept of seeing with your tongue is pretty cool, and I
> understand how it could be useful for people like the man
> featured in this video since he went blind as an adult, but since
> I have been blind all of my life, I wonder if investing in this
> kind of technology makes sense, or if it would be more beneficial
> to invest the resources in teaching people to adapt to their
> blindness with the traditional, and I think more efficient way,
> using your fingers, ears and nose, or at least invest in
> technology that restores sight for real, rather than just coming
> up with some weird inefficient contraption to see with their
> tongue. What do you all think? Is there anyone else on this list
> who has participated in research for this kind of technology? If
> so, what were your feelings about it? I am always interested in
> getting other people's perspectives about innovations like this.
> Here is the link to the story.
> http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/helping-blind-people-tongues-1147
> 7360
> Allison Nastoff
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for stylist:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/jsorozc
> o%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 21:28:13 -0500
> From: "Robert Leslie Newman" <newmanrl at cox.net>
> To: "Robert Leslie Newman" <newmanrl at cox.net>
> Subject: [stylist] Writers' division- August Monthly Telephone
> Gathering
> Message-ID: <E5A80E5C7AC343D1942E3E07E2F2C010 at Newmans>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> RE: August Writers' Division's Telephone Gathering- Sunday August 29th
>
>
>
> this is a reminder- Join in on our monthly telephone gathering and
> interact
> with our guest speaker, Dennis H. R. Sumlin, President of the
Performing
> Arts Division (PAD).(this guy is also a writer and song writer) Let us
> learn
> about the Performing Arts Division; let us ask about what they have to
> offer; who joins and what performing arts are represented in the
> Division;
> how does what we do fit into what PAD's members do; Dennis will answer
> any
> of our questions; he will give us information on how PAD is able to be
> one
> of the only Divisions to offer a college scholarship; and more.
>
>
>
> The time is- 8:30 PM Eastern; 7:30 PM Central; 6:30 PM Mountain; 5:30
PM
> Pacific.
>
>
>
> The phone number to call is- 218-339-4300
>
>
>
> The code is: 568839# (last character is a number sign)
>
>
>
> (It will be recorded and posted to our website)
>
>
>
> Robert Leslie Newman
>
>
>
> President NFB Writers' division
>
>
>
> Writers' Division Website-
>
>
>
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>
>
>
> Personal Website-
>
>
>
> http://www.thoughtprovoker.info
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 22:49:54 -0400
> From: Donna Hill <penatwork at epix.net>
> To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [stylist] seeing with your tongue
> Message-ID: <4C7727D2.4070406 at epix.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Hi Allison,
> I think this sort of thing is a double-edged sword. As science, it is
> fascinating, but I personally have a viseral reaction against it. Even
> with no heavy equipment, the idea that we would use such a technique,
> which would seem to have its own social stigma, instead of developing
> other senses like hearing and touch just seems like a re enforcement
of
> the social stereotype that blindness must be so aweful that people
would
>
> jump at something this weird.
> Just my two cents,
> Donna
>
> Read Donna's articles on
> Suite 101:
> www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
> Ezine Articles:
> http://ezinearticles.com/?expert=D._W._Hill
> American Chronicle:
> www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885
>
> Connect with Donna on
> Twitter:
> www.twitter.com/dewhill
> LinkedIn:
> www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
> FaceBook:
> www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.
>
> Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at:
> cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
> Apple I-Tunes
>
phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=25924437
> 4
>
> Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project
> Donna is Head of Media Relations for the nonprofit
> Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind:
> www.padnfb.org
>
>
> On 8/26/2010 9:47 PM, Allison Nastoff wrote:
>> Hi Everyone,
>> Since this list has been talking about technology that would allow
the
>
>> blind to drive, I thought it would be interesting to start a
>> discussion on a story I saw on yesterday's episode of Good Morning
>> America. The story was about technology being developed that projects
>
>> images on to the tongue using electrical signals that the blind can
>> feel, which in a sense allows them to "see with their tongue". I hope
>
>> you don't mind me cross posting this since it was discussed on
another
>
>> NFB list, but since it was off topic for that list, I thought it
would
>
>> be interesting to continue the discussion on this list.
>> I also wanted to get your opinions because when I was in sixth grade,
>> I participated in a research study for this technology at a local
>> college when it was very early in its development. I dropped out of
>> the study after the first year, and maybe in the years since, the
>> technology has improved. But I remember that when I was in the study,
>
>> the strip that I put on to my tongue extended from a large machine
>> which sent the electrical stimulation to my tongue. This machine was
>> connected to a camera which sent the images to a computer, and a
board
>
>> covered with cloth to create a white background also had to be set up
>> behind the camera. So the point I am trying to make is that this was
>> way too much gear to walk around my kitchen or go rock climbing with
>> the way the blind participants did in this segment. But it also
>> seemed kind of impractical because it was hard to tell what the
shapes
>
>> were, even when it came to braille dots which I read expertly with my
>> fingers, and I know I can locate objects around the kitchen much
>> faster with my fingers. Don't get me wrong. The concept of seeing
>> with your tongue is pretty cool, and I understand how it could be
>> useful for people like the man featured in this video since he went
>> blind as an adult, but since I have been blind all of my life, I
>> wonder if investing in this kind of technology makes sense, or if it
>> would be more beneficial to invest the resources in teaching people
to
>
>> adapt to their blindness with the traditional, and I think more
>> efficient way, using your fingers, ears and nose, or at least invest
>> in technology that restores sight for real, rather than just coming
up
>
>> with some weird inefficient contraption to see with their tongue.
>> What do you all think? Is there anyone else on this list who has
>> participated in research for this kind of technology? If so, what
were
>
>> your feelings about it? I am always interested in getting other
>> people's perspectives about innovations like this. Here is the link
>> to the story.
>> http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/helping-blind-people-tongues-1147
>> 7360
>> Allison Nastoff
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site:
>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>
>> stylist mailing list
>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> stylist:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/penatwork%40epi
> x.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514)
>> Database version: 6.15740
>> http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/
>>
>
>
>
>
> E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514)
> Database version: 6.15740
> http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 02:01:57 -0400
> From: "slery" <slerythema at insightbb.com>
> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Word Processing question
> Message-ID: <566ED2B1843D48B394BD8276A5710AD3 at DesktopCindyPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Yes, Joe, that is exactly what I am talking about.
>
> Cindy
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe Orozco
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 9:56 AM
>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Word Processing question
>>
>>
>> I'm not Cindy, but I think she may be talking about the
>> formatting styles you can access through Word using Shift +
>> Control + S. There you can pick from a list of formatting
>> styles and modify their appearance so that they affect the
>> document across the board where ever that style is used. For
>> example, I have a title style and a subtitle style. With a
>> couple keystrokes I can make a part of my text fall into that
>> style, and later, if I should change my mind about the size,
>> font, alignment, bold, etc. I can just adjust the style and
>> have it reflect throughout the document without manual
>> adjustments. Hope that helps.
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up
>> their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn
>> up at all."--Sam Ewing
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of slery
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 1:47 AM
>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Word Processing question
>>
>>
>> Judith, et al,
>>
>> I am a little under the weather at the moment and this
>> requires a length response to do it. Therefore, I will get
>> back to the list with
>> this answer
>> but not at this moment.
>>
>> Cindy
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> > [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Judith Bron
>> > Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 11:12 AM
>> > To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>> > Subject: Re: [stylist] Word Processing question
>> >
>> >
>> > Cindy, How do you set the style? In my manuscript I typed
>> > the words
>> > formatting it to indent the first word of the paragraph by
>> > 0.5 inches. I
>> > sentered the chapter title like Chapter one. I never heard
>> > of what you are
>> > talking about. Can you enlighten us further? Thanks, Judith
>> > ----- Original Message -----?
>> > From: "slery" <slerythema at insightbb.com>
>> > To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>> > Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 1:21 AM
>> > Subject: Re: [stylist] Word Processing question
>> >
>> >
>> > > The best way, and the way that copyeditors and publishers
>> > use, are to
>> > > use styles.
>> > >
>> > > Don't format each heading and chapter. Set it to a style,
>> then when
>> > > you define the style (or your publisher changes it), it will be
>> > > applied to all items listed as that style and you don't
>> > have to change
>> > > each and every occurrence.
>> > >
>> > > Cindy
>> > >
>> > >> -----Original Message-----
>> > >> From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> > [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> > >> On Behalf Of Judith Bron
>> > >> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 10:33 PM
>> > >> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>> > >> Subject: Re: [stylist] Word Processing question
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Donna, I'm also using word 2003 but Jaws 7.1. I don't have those
>> > >> problems. I combine chapters into one document all the
>> time and the
>> > >> font, point size
>> > >> and formatting stay the same. Here's one suggestion. Put
>> > >> all your chapters
>> > >> into one document. When you have the last one in the
>> > >> document select the
>> > >> document, hit control D for font, select the font you want
>> > >> and go through
>> > >> and do to each heading whatever you want. Not an optimum
>> > >> solution, but the
>> > >> only one I can come up with. HTH, Judith
>> > >> ----- Original Message -----?
>> > >> From: "Donna Hill" <penatwork at epix.net>
>> > >> To: <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>> > >> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 9:58 PM
>> > >> Subject: [stylist] Word Processing question
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> > Hi Guys,
>> > >> > Here's the thing. I'm trying to make one document of all of my
>> > >> > chapters. I've done this many times with the same
>> > frustrations. If
>> > >> > I
>> > >> start with
>> > >> > Chapter 1, put Chapter 2 on the clipboard and paste it into
>> > >> Chapter 1
>> > >> > after inserting a page break, one of 2 things happens.
>> > >> Either the font
>> > >> > changes from 12 pt. Times New Roman to 10 pt. TMNS (or
>> > >> something like
>> > >> > those initials anyway), or the font stays Times New Roman,
>> > >> but the Chapter
>> > >> > title, which I had painstakingly bolded, centered and
>> > >> changed to 14 pt.,
>> > >> > goes back to 12 pt. regular type and aligned left. It
>> > >> always involves a
>> > >> > lot of re formatting.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Is there some easier way to combine documents? I'm using
>> > Word 2003
>> > >> > with Jaws 11.
>> > >> > Thanks,
>> > >> > Donna
>> > >> >
>> > >> > --
>> > >> > Read Donna's articles on
>> > >> > Suite 101:
>> > >> > www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
>> > >> > American Chronicle:
www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Connect with Donna on
>> > >> > Twitter:
>> > >> > www.twitter.com/dewhill
>> > >> > LinkedIn:
>> > >> > www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
>> > >> > FaceBook:
>> > >> > www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at: cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
>> > >> > Apple I-Tunes
>> > >> >
>> > >>
>> >
>> phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=25924
>> > >> 4
>> > >> > 374
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project Donna is
>> Head of Media
>> > >> > Relations for the nonprofit Performing Arts Division of the
>> > >> > National
>> > >> Federation of
>> > >> > the Blind:
>> > >> > www.padnfb.org
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> > =======
>> > >> > Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found.
>> > >> (Email Guard:
>> > >> > 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.15430)
>> > http://www.pctools.com/
>> > >> > =======
>> > >> >
>> > >> > _______________________________________________
>> > >> > Writers Division web site: http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>> > >> > <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>> > >> >
>> > >> > stylist mailing list
>> > >> > stylist at nfbnet.org
>> > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> > >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>> > >> account info for
>> > >> > stylist:
>> > >> >
>> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/jbron
>> > > %40optonline.net
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Writers Division web site: http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>> > > <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>> > >
>> > > stylist mailing list
>> > > stylist at nfbnet.org
>> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>> > account info for
>> > > stylist:
>> > >
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/slery
>> thema%40insigh
>> > tbb.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Writers Division web site: http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>> > <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>> >
>> > stylist mailing list
>> > stylist at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>> account info for
>> > stylist:
>> >
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/jbron%4
>> 0optonline.n
>> et
>> >
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site:
>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>
>> stylist mailing list
>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> stylist:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/sleryth
>> ema%40insigh
>> tbb.com
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site:
>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>
>> stylist mailing list
>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for stylist:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/jsorozc
>> o%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site:
>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>
>> stylist mailing list
>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for stylist:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/slery
> thema%40insightbb.com
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 06:20:59 -0400
> From: "cheryl echevarria" <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [stylist] seeing with your tongue
> Message-ID: <BAY110-DS22AD5B495CC953DBB08303A1860 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> my friend and NAGDU member albert rizzi was the one on the program.
>
> The biggest compliment you can pay me is to recommend my services!
>
> Cheryl Echevarria
> Independent Travel Consultant
> C10-10646
>
> http://Echevarriatravel.com
> 1-866-580-5574
> skype: angeldn3
>
> Reservations at echevarriatravel.com
> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel
> CST-1018299-10
> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Absolute Cruise and
Travel
> Inc.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----?
> From: "Donna Hill" <penatwork at epix.net>
> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 10:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [stylist] seeing with your tongue
>
>
>> Hi Allison,
>> I think this sort of thing is a double-edged sword. As science, it is
>> fascinating, but I personally have a viseral reaction against it.
Even
>> with no heavy equipment, the idea that we would use such a technique,
>> which would seem to have its own social stigma, instead of developing
>> other senses like hearing and touch just seems like a re enforcement
> of
>> the social stereotype that blindness must be so aweful that people
> would
>> jump at something this weird.
>> Just my two cents,
>> Donna
>>
>> Read Donna's articles on
>> Suite 101:
>> www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
>> Ezine Articles:
>> http://ezinearticles.com/?expert=D._W._Hill
>> American Chronicle:
>> www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885
>>
>> Connect with Donna on
>> Twitter:
>> www.twitter.com/dewhill
>> LinkedIn:
>> www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
>> FaceBook:
>> www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.
>>
>> Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at:
>> cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
>> Apple I-Tunes
>>
>
phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=25924437
> 4
>>
>> Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project
>> Donna is Head of Media Relations for the nonprofit
>> Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind:
>> www.padnfb.org
>>
>>
>> On 8/26/2010 9:47 PM, Allison Nastoff wrote:
>> > Hi Everyone,
>> > Since this list has been talking about technology that would allow
> the
>> > blind to drive, I thought it would be interesting to start a
>> > discussion on a story I saw on yesterday's episode of Good Morning
>> > America. The story was about technology being developed that
> projects
>> > images on to the tongue using electrical signals that the blind can
>> > feel, which in a sense allows them to "see with their tongue". I
> hope
>> > you don't mind me cross posting this since it was discussed on
> another
>> > NFB list, but since it was off topic for that list, I thought it
> would
>> > be interesting to continue the discussion on this list.
>> > I also wanted to get your opinions because when I was in sixth
> grade,
>> > I participated in a research study for this technology at a local
>> > college when it was very early in its development. I dropped out of
>> > the study after the first year, and maybe in the years since, the
>> > technology has improved. But I remember that when I was in the
> study,
>> > the strip that I put on to my tongue extended from a large machine
>> > which sent the electrical stimulation to my tongue. This machine
> was
>> > connected to a camera which sent the images to a computer, and a
> board
>> > covered with cloth to create a white background also had to be set
> up
>> > behind the camera. So the point I am trying to make is that this
> was
>> > way too much gear to walk around my kitchen or go rock climbing
with
>> > the way the blind participants did in this segment. But it also
>> > seemed kind of impractical because it was hard to tell what the
> shapes
>> > were, even when it came to braille dots which I read expertly with
> my
>> > fingers, and I know I can locate objects around the kitchen much
>> > faster with my fingers. Don't get me wrong. The concept of seeing
>> > with your tongue is pretty cool, and I understand how it could be
>> > useful for people like the man featured in this video since he went
>> > blind as an adult, but since I have been blind all of my life, I
>> > wonder if investing in this kind of technology makes sense, or if
it
>> > would be more beneficial to invest the resources in teaching people
> to
>> > adapt to their blindness with the traditional, and I think more
>> > efficient way, using your fingers, ears and nose, or at least
invest
>> > in technology that restores sight for real, rather than just coming
> up
>> > with some weird inefficient contraption to see with their tongue.
>> > What do you all think? Is there anyone else on this list who has
>> > participated in research for this kind of technology? If so, what
> were
>> > your feelings about it? I am always interested in getting other
>> > people's perspectives about innovations like this. Here is the link
>> > to the story.
>> > http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/helping-blind-people-tongues-1147
>> > 7360
>> > Allison Nastoff
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Writers Division web site:
>> > http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>> > <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>> >
>> > stylist mailing list
>> > stylist at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
>> > stylist:
>> >
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/penatwork%40epi
> x.net
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514)
>> > Database version: 6.15740
>> > http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514)
>> Database version: 6.15740
>> http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site:
>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>
>> stylist mailing list
>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> stylist:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%4
> 0hotmail.com
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 05:56:41 -0500
> From: "Robert Leslie Newman" <newmanrl at cox.net>
> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [stylist] seeing with your tongue
> Message-ID: <33F7BE1A3D274A40ABD1DCCB94BAE33C at Newmans>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> On this seeing with your tongue thing. Guess I am of the opinion that
if
> there is money out there for research and development of alternative
> sight,
> then go for it. And I say this, tongue in cheek, sight is better than
> being
> blind. --- Hold on with the storm of thoughts words and recriminations
> ---
> I'll just explain my last statement by this super generalizing
> definition-
> This world is setup for the sighted and there are fewer hassles if you
> are
> sighted. And so in saying that "having sight is better than being
> blind,"
> and getting back to the general topic of this thread, I support things
> like
> these experimentation "seeing" projects, though many of them will be
too
> weird and not functional or practical or acceptable for one or more
> reasons.
> Yet, there probably is one or more eventual outcomes that will be
equal
> and
> acceptable to "normal" vision and/or even superior to what we were
born
> with. And I also support any research that could prevent the human
> embryo
> from developing with a medical and/or physical condition that would
upon
> birth be there or develop blindness later in that persons life. And in
> saying all this, in general I'm saying that I am for eliminating all
> human
> abnormalities, be they hereditary or congenital or even cause later in
> life
> by accidents (repairing the broken part or replacing it).
>
> And so, can we successfully live with blindness? I don't feel I need
to
> tell
> you this answer --- you know it and I know it and most of us believe
and
> live it. Again, I am for improving the human experience; which
includes
> the
> personal choice of being blind, if you so choose to be.
>
>
>
> Robert Leslie Newman
> President- NFB Writers' Division
> Division Website
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
> Personal Website-
> http://www.thoughtprovoker.info
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On
> Behalf Of Allison Nastoff
> Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 8:48 PM
> To: stylist at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [stylist] seeing with your tongue
>
> Hi Everyone,
> Since this list has been talking about technology that would
> allow the blind to drive, I thought it would be interesting to
> start a discussion on a story I saw on yesterday's episode of
> Good Morning America. The story was about technology being
> developed that projects images on to the tongue using electrical
> signals that the blind can feel, which in a sense allows them to
> "see with their tongue". I hope you don't mind me cross posting
> this since it was discussed on another NFB list, but since it was
> off topic for that list, I thought it would be interesting to
> continue the discussion on this list.
> I also wanted to get your opinions because when I was in sixth
> grade, I participated in a research study for this technology at
> a local college when it was very early in its development. I
> dropped out of the study after the first year, and maybe in the
> years since, the technology has improved. But I remember that
> when I was in the study, the strip that I put on to my tongue
> extended from a large machine which sent the electrical
> stimulation to my tongue. This machine was connected to a camera
> which sent the images to a computer, and a board covered with
> cloth to create a white background also had to be set up behind
> the camera. So the point I am trying to make is that this was
> way too much gear to walk around my kitchen or go rock climbing
> with the way the blind participants did in this segment. But it
> also seemed kind of impractical because it was hard to tell what
> the shapes were, even when it came to braille dots which I read
> expertly with my fingers, and I know I can locate objects around
> the kitchen much faster with my fingers. Don't get me wrong.
> The concept of seeing with your tongue is pretty cool, and I
> understand how it could be useful for people like the man
> featured in this video since he went blind as an adult, but since
> I have been blind all of my life, I wonder if investing in this
> kind of technology makes sense, or if it would be more beneficial
> to invest the resources in teaching people to adapt to their
> blindness with the traditional, and I think more efficient way,
> using your fingers, ears and nose, or at least invest in
> technology that restores sight for real, rather than just coming
> up with some weird inefficient contraption to see with their
> tongue. What do you all think? Is there anyone else on this list
> who has participated in research for this kind of technology? If
> so, what were your feelings about it? I am always interested in
> getting other people's perspectives about innovations like this.
> Here is the link to the story.
> http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/helping-blind-people-tongues-1147
> 7360
> Allison Nastoff
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> stylist:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/newmanrl%40cox.
> net
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>
>
> End of stylist Digest, Vol 76, Issue 47
> ***************************************
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
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> stylist:
>
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zon.net?

_______________________________________________
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<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>

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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 08:55:45 -0400
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] seeing with your tongue
Message-ID: <3A2F6C6980F949B79A52C624D3768F81 at Rufus>
Content-Type: text/plain;     charset="iso-8859-1"

Lori,

I agree with you.  Yet, how boring would it be to go without a little
discussion? (grin)

The aspects you outline are not benefits of blindness.  They are
adjustment
strategies.  For something to be a benefit, it should inspire someone to
acquire the status to gain said benefit, and last I checked, people
weren't
wishing to be blind.

1. Reading in the dark is not a direct benefit of being blind, but
rather, a
benefit of reading Braille.  Sighted people can learn Braille just as
proficiently and could therefore be just as capable of reading in the
dark.

2. Functioning in the midst of a power outage is also an acquired
adjustment
strategy.  Actually, this is a little like saying blind people are
better
off in a situation because they can hear better.  It's a perceived
advantage
based on misconception.

3. Helping other people who are still adjusting is not a beneficial
attribute but rather an empathetic one, since a well-rounded sighted
person
could just as easily help people through their acclamation with
blindness.

4. How is being affiliated with the NFB putting one at the forefront of
technology?  Last I checked, all the NFB did was review other products
and
put out press releases praising or rejecting other developments.  There
does
not appear to be any actual research and development at the Jernigan
Institute.  You yourself pointed out that even in the case of the blind
vehicles, the research was being carried out elsewhere.

People like your husband and many others should be commended for their
educational achievements, but these educational achievements had to be
reached because there are no other viable alternatives.  No one, blind
or
sighted, needs higher education to succeed in life, but choosing not to
pursue higher education significantly closes opportunities for blind
people
more than sighted ones.  If we're talking benefits, I would argue that
on
this point blindness is not a benefit.  Given the high price of
technology
and the slow method of obtaining access to texts, blindness is actually
disadvantageous.

As to ceasing the development of a fetus on the grounds that it might be
disabled, well, not even I can offer a devil's advocate refutation to
that
one.  I don't remember reading that comment here, but I agree this is
wrong
on multiple levels.

Yours in stirring up the kettle spirit,

Joe

?Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all.?--Sam Ewing 

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of loristay
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 7:44 PM
To: Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [stylist] seeing with your tongue

I've been following some of this incredible discussion. ?Here 
are my thoughts.
First, I have had blind babysitters, and have found them 
competent. ?Second, if a person has always been blind or has 
adjusted to blindness, obtaining sight would give them a huge 
challenge. ?Third, there are some benefits to blindness, 
providing the blind person has mastered the skills of blindness.
1. ?Reading in the dark under the covers after lights out
2. ?Functioning perfectly well when there is a power outage. ?
My husband tells me he once stationed himself in his 
neighborhood and helped sighted people find their homes when 
the east coast was blacked out.
3. ?The ability and privilege of assisting other blind people 
who have not adjusted.
4. ?Being in the forefront of accessible technology (through 
the Federation)

If he had not been blind, instead of attending college and 
getting his masters, my husband would have had to drop out of 
high school to support the family, the way his siblings did. ?
He is the only one of five who completed high school and 
established himself in a career.

There are other things, I suppose. ?The idea of stopping the 
development of a fetus who might be disabled is abominable, and 
I am surprised at the person who suggested it. ?If it had been 
done, we'd be missing Homer, and Milton, and Steven 
Hawking--Well, maybe not Hawking, though killing a disabled 
fetus and killing a disabled person don't seem that different to me!
Be careful what you suggest. ?You never know who is reading your words.
Lori

On Aug 27, 2010, at 4:37:38 PM, "Anita Adkins" 
<aadkins7 at verizon.net> wrote:

From:   "Anita Adkins" <aadkins7 at verizon.net>
Subject:    Re: [stylist] seeing with your tongue
Date:   August 27, 2010 4:37:38 PM EDT
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Hi,

I agree with you. I think it is okay for us to develop 
technology or for us?
to search for cures for blindness. However, I also believe that 
we should?
not sit and wait for this to happen, but that we should learn how to?
function now. So, learning nonvisual techniques and using them 
on a regular?
basis is essential for all of us to do until the magical cure 
or perfect?
piece of technology is available. And, I, too, do not know if I 
would want?
vision if I could have it. I think of all of the crime and 
such, such as?
people making out in public on a college campus, that I am 
fortunate enough?
not to witness because of my blindness preventing me from 
seeing it. Also,?
part of my personality stems from my being blind, and learning 
to live with?
vision would be a challenge for me. The benefits would be the 
privelige to?
have others hold high expectations of me. I could be 
automatically trusted?
to babysit someone's kids, for instance. In saying that, I want to make?
sure to point out that many people do find me competent, but 
blindness does?
have its little nuissances simply because people who are sighted do not?
understand it and are afraid of it. Therefore, they base what 
the blind can?
do on what they believe they can or cannot do as a blind person. For?
example, the manager of my apartment building, who regularly 
witnesses me?
walking to town, doing laundry, keeping house, and the like, concerns?
herself if something in the hall would present an obstacle for 
me to fall?
over. The only way for her to build confidence, therefore, is 
for her to?
actually perform tasks nonvisually. If I were sighted, I would 
not have to?
deal with the nuissance of her treating me as if I were not a competent?
traveler. Just some thoughts. Anita
----- Original Message -----?
From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" <bpollpeter at hotmail.com>
To: <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 3:40 PM
Subject: [stylist] seeing with your tongue

> Dear list,
>
> I am not against research such as this product or any other 
products. I
> don't think it is wrong for a blind person, whether from 
birth or later
> in life, to want to experience sight. Sometimes we ostracize 
people who
> make such comments and believe they are "bad" blind people who have a
> bad philosophy, but just because some one wishes to "see" 
does not mean
> they are a bad example of a blind person. I too agree that 
the world is
> not established for any disabilities, and, though much 
progress has been
> made, accommodations and modifications can take time and funds not
> always readily available. So if a disability of any kind can be
> eliminated, then I say continue the research.
>
> Having said all this, I now make this point. I know far too many blind
> people who hear about such technology and sit and wait for the
> technology to catch up and become a product ready for the market.
> Instead of learning the tools and methods currently available to allow
> independence for the blind, they choose to wait for technology and
> science to "cure" them.
>
> I firmly believe that we must understand that we, as blind people,
> currently have every chance to be successful and independent. We talk
> about norms and acceptance, but the real issue is perception. We all
> know the struggle for society to accept us and embrace our abilities
> with open, trusting arms, but far to often this is not the case. Many
> of us have had people doubt our abilities even though we present an
> independent, confident image. Would it be easier to 
assimilate into the
> world without a disability, most likely, but again, this is 
because the
> established norm is based on not having a disability. So are we any
> closer to having technology or science that eliminates blindness, then
> we are to changing perceptions about blindness?
>
> Personally, and I myself am not sure why I feel this way, do 
not care a
> whole lot if a "cure" is ever found, and I truly do not know 
if I would
> take it. Hmmm... To be the only blind person in the world! Think of
> all the attention I would get! *smile*
>
> Seriously though, we need to accept our own capabilities and success
> whether or not other means eventual will exist allowing for sight. I
> also don't think it matters what point a person loses their vision, we
> all can learn and utilize tools and methods like Braille and 
cane travel
> and be just as efficient, quick and safe as those with sight.
>
> So, I'm not against any research, but I also believe we need to
> understand that sight will not necessarily make life easier, but just
> different.
>
> Bridgit
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of stylist-request at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 12:00 PM
> To: stylist at nfbnet.org
> Subject: stylist Digest, Vol 76, Issue 47
>
> Send stylist mailing list submissions to
> stylist at nfbnet.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> stylist-request at nfbnet.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
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>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of stylist digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. seeing with your tongue (Allison Nastoff)
> 2. Re: seeing with your tongue (Joe Orozco)
> 3. Writers' division- August Monthly Telephone Gathering
> (Robert Leslie Newman)
> 4. Re: seeing with your tongue (Donna Hill)
> 5. Re: Word Processing question (slery)
> 6. Re: seeing with your tongue (cheryl echevarria)
> 7. Re: seeing with your tongue (Robert Leslie Newman)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 20:47:45 -0500
> From: Allison Nastoff <anastoff at wi.rr.com>
> To: stylist at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [stylist] seeing with your tongue
> Message-ID: <79.27.18983.A59177C4 at hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Hi Everyone,
> Since this list has been talking about technology that would
> allow the blind to drive, I thought it would be interesting to
> start a discussion on a story I saw on yesterday's episode of
> Good Morning America. The story was about technology being
> developed that projects images on to the tongue using electrical
> signals that the blind can feel, which in a sense allows them to
> "see with their tongue". I hope you don't mind me cross posting
> this since it was discussed on another NFB list, but since it was
> off topic for that list, I thought it would be interesting to
> continue the discussion on this list.
> I also wanted to get your opinions because when I was in sixth
> grade, I participated in a research study for this technology at
> a local college when it was very early in its development. I
> dropped out of the study after the first year, and maybe in the
> years since, the technology has improved. But I remember that
> when I was in the study, the strip that I put on to my tongue
> extended from a large machine which sent the electrical
> stimulation to my tongue. This machine was connected to a camera
> which sent the images to a computer, and a board covered with
> cloth to create a white background also had to be set up behind
> the camera. So the point I am trying to make is that this was
> way too much gear to walk around my kitchen or go rock climbing
> with the way the blind participants did in this segment. But it
> also seemed kind of impractical because it was hard to tell what
> the shapes were, even when it came to braille dots which I read
> expertly with my fingers, and I know I can locate objects around
> the kitchen much faster with my fingers. Don't get me wrong.
> The concept of seeing with your tongue is pretty cool, and I
> understand how it could be useful for people like the man
> featured in this video since he went blind as an adult, but since
> I have been blind all of my life, I wonder if investing in this
> kind of technology makes sense, or if it would be more beneficial
> to invest the resources in teaching people to adapt to their
> blindness with the traditional, and I think more efficient way,
> using your fingers, ears and nose, or at least invest in
> technology that restores sight for real, rather than just coming
> up with some weird inefficient contraption to see with their
> tongue. What do you all think? Is there anyone else on this list
> who has participated in research for this kind of technology? If
> so, what were your feelings about it? I am always interested in
> getting other people's perspectives about innovations like this.
> Here is the link to the story.
> http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/helping-blind-people-tongues-1147
> 7360
> Allison Nastoff
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 21:59:04 -0400
> From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [stylist] seeing with your tongue
> Message-ID: <FFEA8EAB85C54B1F9190B18DE776DFDA at Rufus>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Dude, this for some reason makes me think of Harry Potter. Didn't he
> speak
> snake? (grin) No, in all seriousness though, I think people are
> generally
> well-intentioned in their desire to introduce technology that 
could help
> blind people lead more enjoyable lives, but it's up to us to educate
> them on
> striking a balance between what would be useful and what 
would be useful
> and
> draw unneeded attention. I can't comment on the concept of seeing
> through
> tasting, but I do believe that no matter where a blind person 
is in her
> independence skills, ultimately she would want to be socially 
accepted.
> That is, after all, the philosophy of the NFB, to adjust to the
> challenges
> of our environment. While I am vehemently opposed to the cars for the
> blind, I would rather we take the initiative than someone else dictate
> what
> these cars should look like. In my personal opinion, this is also true
> of
> echolocation. It might work for some folks, but even in my socially
> drunken
> days you would have never caught me cruising around clucking like a
> chicken.
>
> Best,
>
> Joe
>
> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
> sleeves,
> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Allison Nastoff
> Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 9:48 PM
> To: stylist at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [stylist] seeing with your tongue
>
> Hi Everyone,
> Since this list has been talking about technology that would
> allow the blind to drive, I thought it would be interesting to
> start a discussion on a story I saw on yesterday's episode of
> Good Morning America. The story was about technology being
> developed that projects images on to the tongue using electrical
> signals that the blind can feel, which in a sense allows them to
> "see with their tongue". I hope you don't mind me cross posting
> this since it was discussed on another NFB list, but since it was
> off topic for that list, I thought it would be interesting to
> continue the discussion on this list.
> I also wanted to get your opinions because when I was in sixth
> grade, I participated in a research study for this technology at
> a local college when it was very early in its development. I
> dropped out of the study after the first year, and maybe in the
> years since, the technology has improved. But I remember that
> when I was in the study, the strip that I put on to my tongue
> extended from a large machine which sent the electrical
> stimulation to my tongue. This machine was connected to a camera
> which sent the images to a computer, and a board covered with
> cloth to create a white background also had to be set up behind
> the camera. So the point I am trying to make is that this was
> way too much gear to walk around my kitchen or go rock climbing
> with the way the blind participants did in this segment. But it
> also seemed kind of impractical because it was hard to tell what
> the shapes were, even when it came to braille dots which I read
> expertly with my fingers, and I know I can locate objects around
> the kitchen much faster with my fingers. Don't get me wrong.
> The concept of seeing with your tongue is pretty cool, and I
> understand how it could be useful for people like the man
> featured in this video since he went blind as an adult, but since
> I have been blind all of my life, I wonder if investing in this
> kind of technology makes sense, or if it would be more beneficial
> to invest the resources in teaching people to adapt to their
> blindness with the traditional, and I think more efficient way,
> using your fingers, ears and nose, or at least invest in
> technology that restores sight for real, rather than just coming
> up with some weird inefficient contraption to see with their
> tongue. What do you all think? Is there anyone else on this list
> who has participated in research for this kind of technology? If
> so, what were your feelings about it? I am always interested in
> getting other people's perspectives about innovations like this.
> Here is the link to the story.
> http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/helping-blind-people-tongues-1147
> 7360
> Allison Nastoff
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for stylist:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/jsorozc
> o%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 21:28:13 -0500
> From: "Robert Leslie Newman" <newmanrl at cox.net>
> To: "Robert Leslie Newman" <newmanrl at cox.net>
> Subject: [stylist] Writers' division- August Monthly Telephone
> Gathering
> Message-ID: <E5A80E5C7AC343D1942E3E07E2F2C010 at Newmans>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> RE: August Writers' Division's Telephone Gathering- Sunday August 29th
>
>
>
> this is a reminder- Join in on our monthly telephone gathering and
> interact
> with our guest speaker, Dennis H. R. Sumlin, President of the 
Performing
> Arts Division (PAD).(this guy is also a writer and song writer) Let us
> learn
> about the Performing Arts Division; let us ask about what they have to
> offer; who joins and what performing arts are represented in the
> Division;
> how does what we do fit into what PAD's members do; Dennis will answer
> any
> of our questions; he will give us information on how PAD is able to be
> one
> of the only Divisions to offer a college scholarship; and more.
>
>
>
> The time is- 8:30 PM Eastern; 7:30 PM Central; 6:30 PM 
Mountain; 5:30 PM
> Pacific.
>
>
>
> The phone number to call is- 218-339-4300
>
>
>
> The code is: 568839# (last character is a number sign)
>
>
>
> (It will be recorded and posted to our website)
>
>
>
> Robert Leslie Newman
>
>
>
> President NFB Writers' division
>
>
>
> Writers' Division Website-
>
>
>
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>
>
>
> Personal Website-
>
>
>
> http://www.thoughtprovoker.info
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 22:49:54 -0400
> From: Donna Hill <penatwork at epix.net>
> To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [stylist] seeing with your tongue
> Message-ID: <4C7727D2.4070406 at epix.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Hi Allison,
> I think this sort of thing is a double-edged sword. As science, it is
> fascinating, but I personally have a viseral reaction against it. Even
> with no heavy equipment, the idea that we would use such a technique,
> which would seem to have its own social stigma, instead of developing
> other senses like hearing and touch just seems like a re 
enforcement of
> the social stereotype that blindness must be so aweful that 
people would
>
> jump at something this weird.
> Just my two cents,
> Donna
>
> Read Donna's articles on
> Suite 101:
> www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
> Ezine Articles:
> http://ezinearticles.com/?expert=D._W._Hill
> American Chronicle:
> www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885
>
> Connect with Donna on
> Twitter:
> www.twitter.com/dewhill
> LinkedIn:
> www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
> FaceBook:
> www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.
>
> Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at:
> cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
> Apple I-Tunes
> 
phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=25924437
> 4
>
> Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project
> Donna is Head of Media Relations for the nonprofit
> Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind:
> www.padnfb.org
>
>
> On 8/26/2010 9:47 PM, Allison Nastoff wrote:
>> Hi Everyone,
>> Since this list has been talking about technology that would 
allow the
>
>> blind to drive, I thought it would be interesting to start a
>> discussion on a story I saw on yesterday's episode of Good Morning
>> America. The story was about technology being developed that projects
>
>> images on to the tongue using electrical signals that the blind can
>> feel, which in a sense allows them to "see with their tongue". I hope
>
>> you don't mind me cross posting this since it was discussed 
on another
>
>> NFB list, but since it was off topic for that list, I 
thought it would
>
>> be interesting to continue the discussion on this list.
>> I also wanted to get your opinions because when I was in sixth grade,
>> I participated in a research study for this technology at a local
>> college when it was very early in its development. I dropped out of
>> the study after the first year, and maybe in the years since, the
>> technology has improved. But I remember that when I was in the study,
>
>> the strip that I put on to my tongue extended from a large machine
>> which sent the electrical stimulation to my tongue. This machine was
>> connected to a camera which sent the images to a computer, 
and a board
>
>> covered with cloth to create a white background also had to be set up
>> behind the camera. So the point I am trying to make is that this was
>> way too much gear to walk around my kitchen or go rock climbing with
>> the way the blind participants did in this segment. But it also
>> seemed kind of impractical because it was hard to tell what 
the shapes
>
>> were, even when it came to braille dots which I read expertly with my
>> fingers, and I know I can locate objects around the kitchen much
>> faster with my fingers. Don't get me wrong. The concept of seeing
>> with your tongue is pretty cool, and I understand how it could be
>> useful for people like the man featured in this video since he went
>> blind as an adult, but since I have been blind all of my life, I
>> wonder if investing in this kind of technology makes sense, or if it
>> would be more beneficial to invest the resources in teaching 
people to
>
>> adapt to their blindness with the traditional, and I think more
>> efficient way, using your fingers, ears and nose, or at least invest
>> in technology that restores sight for real, rather than just 
coming up
>
>> with some weird inefficient contraption to see with their tongue.
>> What do you all think? Is there anyone else on this list who has
>> participated in research for this kind of technology? If so, 
what were
>
>> your feelings about it? I am always interested in getting other
>> people's perspectives about innovations like this. Here is the link
>> to the story.
>> http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/helping-blind-people-tongues-1147
>> 7360
>> Allison Nastoff
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site:
>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>
>> stylist mailing list
>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> stylist:
>>
> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/penatwork%40epi
> x.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514)
>> Database version: 6.15740
>> http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/
>>
>
>
>
>
> E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514)
> Database version: 6.15740
> http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 02:01:57 -0400
> From: "slery" <slerythema at insightbb.com>
> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Word Processing question
> Message-ID: <566ED2B1843D48B394BD8276A5710AD3 at DesktopCindyPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Yes, Joe, that is exactly what I am talking about.
>
> Cindy
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe Orozco
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 9:56 AM
>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Word Processing question
>>
>>
>> I'm not Cindy, but I think she may be talking about the
>> formatting styles you can access through Word using Shift +
>> Control + S. There you can pick from a list of formatting
>> styles and modify their appearance so that they affect the
>> document across the board where ever that style is used. For
>> example, I have a title style and a subtitle style. With a
>> couple keystrokes I can make a part of my text fall into that
>> style, and later, if I should change my mind about the size,
>> font, alignment, bold, etc. I can just adjust the style and
>> have it reflect throughout the document without manual
>> adjustments. Hope that helps.
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up
>> their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn
>> up at all."--Sam Ewing
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of slery
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 1:47 AM
>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Word Processing question
>>
>>
>> Judith, et al,
>>
>> I am a little under the weather at the moment and this
>> requires a length response to do it. Therefore, I will get
>> back to the list with
>> this answer
>> but not at this moment.
>>
>> Cindy
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> > [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Judith Bron
>> > Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 11:12 AM
>> > To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>> > Subject: Re: [stylist] Word Processing question
>> >
>> >
>> > Cindy, How do you set the style? In my manuscript I typed
>> > the words
>> > formatting it to indent the first word of the paragraph by
>> > 0.5 inches. I
>> > sentered the chapter title like Chapter one. I never heard
>> > of what you are
>> > talking about. Can you enlighten us further? Thanks, Judith
>> > ----- Original Message -----?
>> > From: "slery" <slerythema at insightbb.com>
>> > To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>> > Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 1:21 AM
>> > Subject: Re: [stylist] Word Processing question
>> >
>> >
>> > > The best way, and the way that copyeditors and publishers
>> > use, are to
>> > > use styles.
>> > >
>> > > Don't format each heading and chapter. Set it to a style,
>> then when
>> > > you define the style (or your publisher changes it), it will be
>> > > applied to all items listed as that style and you don't
>> > have to change
>> > > each and every occurrence.
>> > >
>> > > Cindy
>> > >
>> > >> -----Original Message-----
>> > >> From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> > [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> > >> On Behalf Of Judith Bron
>> > >> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 10:33 PM
>> > >> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>> > >> Subject: Re: [stylist] Word Processing question
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Donna, I'm also using word 2003 but Jaws 7.1. I don't have those
>> > >> problems. I combine chapters into one document all the
>> time and the
>> > >> font, point size
>> > >> and formatting stay the same. Here's one suggestion. Put
>> > >> all your chapters
>> > >> into one document. When you have the last one in the
>> > >> document select the
>> > >> document, hit control D for font, select the font you want
>> > >> and go through
>> > >> and do to each heading whatever you want. Not an optimum
>> > >> solution, but the
>> > >> only one I can come up with. HTH, Judith
>> > >> ----- Original Message -----?
>> > >> From: "Donna Hill" <penatwork at epix.net>
>> > >> To: <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>> > >> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 9:58 PM
>> > >> Subject: [stylist] Word Processing question
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> > Hi Guys,
>> > >> > Here's the thing. I'm trying to make one document of all of my
>> > >> > chapters. I've done this many times with the same
>> > frustrations. If
>> > >> > I
>> > >> start with
>> > >> > Chapter 1, put Chapter 2 on the clipboard and paste it into
>> > >> Chapter 1
>> > >> > after inserting a page break, one of 2 things happens.
>> > >> Either the font
>> > >> > changes from 12 pt. Times New Roman to 10 pt. TMNS (or
>> > >> something like
>> > >> > those initials anyway), or the font stays Times New Roman,
>> > >> but the Chapter
>> > >> > title, which I had painstakingly bolded, centered and
>> > >> changed to 14 pt.,
>> > >> > goes back to 12 pt. regular type and aligned left. It
>> > >> always involves a
>> > >> > lot of re formatting.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Is there some easier way to combine documents? I'm using
>> > Word 2003
>> > >> > with Jaws 11.
>> > >> > Thanks,
>> > >> > Donna
>> > >> >
>> > >> > --
>> > >> > Read Donna's articles on
>> > >> > Suite 101:
>> > >> > www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
>> > >> > American Chronicle: 
www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Connect with Donna on
>> > >> > Twitter:
>> > >> > www.twitter.com/dewhill
>> > >> > LinkedIn:
>> > >> > www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
>> > >> > FaceBook:
>> > >> > www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at: cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
>> > >> > Apple I-Tunes
>> > >> >
>> > >>
>> >
>> phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=25924
>> > >> 4
>> > >> > 374
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project Donna is
>> Head of Media
>> > >> > Relations for the nonprofit Performing Arts Division of the
>> > >> > National
>> > >> Federation of
>> > >> > the Blind:
>> > >> > www.padnfb.org
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> > =======
>> > >> > Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found.
>> > >> (Email Guard:
>> > >> > 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.15430)
>> > http://www.pctools.com/
>> > >> > =======
>> > >> >
>> > >> > _______________________________________________
>> > >> > Writers Division web site: http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>> > >> > <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>> > >> >
>> > >> > stylist mailing list
>> > >> > stylist at nfbnet.org
>> > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> > >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>> > >> account info for
>> > >> > stylist:
>> > >> >
>> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/jbron
>> > > %40optonline.net
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Writers Division web site: http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>> > > <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>> > >
>> > > stylist mailing list
>> > > stylist at nfbnet.org
>> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>> > account info for
>> > > stylist:
>> > >
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/slery
>> thema%40insigh
>> > tbb.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Writers Division web site: http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>> > <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>> >
>> > stylist mailing list
>> > stylist at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>> account info for
>> > stylist:
>> >
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/jbron%4
>> 0optonline.n
>> et
>> >
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site:
>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>
>> stylist mailing list
>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> stylist:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/sleryth
>> ema%40insigh
>> tbb.com
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site:
>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>
>> stylist mailing list
>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for stylist:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/jsorozc
>> o%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site:
>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>
>> stylist mailing list
>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for stylist:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/slery
> thema%40insightbb.com
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 06:20:59 -0400
> From: "cheryl echevarria" <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [stylist] seeing with your tongue
> Message-ID: <BAY110-DS22AD5B495CC953DBB08303A1860 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> my friend and NAGDU member albert rizzi was the one on the program.
>
> The biggest compliment you can pay me is to recommend my services!
>
> Cheryl Echevarria
> Independent Travel Consultant
> C10-10646
>
> http://Echevarriatravel.com
> 1-866-580-5574
> skype: angeldn3
>
> Reservations at echevarriatravel.com
> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel
> CST-1018299-10
> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Absolute Cruise 
and Travel
> Inc.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----?
> From: "Donna Hill" <penatwork at epix.net>
> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 10:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [stylist] seeing with your tongue
>
>
>> Hi Allison,
>> I think this sort of thing is a double-edged sword. As science, it is
>> fascinating, but I personally have a viseral reaction 
against it. Even
>> with no heavy equipment, the idea that we would use such a technique,
>> which would seem to have its own social stigma, instead of developing
>> other senses like hearing and touch just seems like a re enforcement
> of
>> the social stereotype that blindness must be so aweful that people
> would
>> jump at something this weird.
>> Just my two cents,
>> Donna
>>
>> Read Donna's articles on
>> Suite 101:
>> www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
>> Ezine Articles:
>> http://ezinearticles.com/?expert=D._W._Hill
>> American Chronicle:
>> www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885
>>
>> Connect with Donna on
>> Twitter:
>> www.twitter.com/dewhill
>> LinkedIn:
>> www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
>> FaceBook:
>> www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.
>>
>> Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at:
>> cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
>> Apple I-Tunes
>>
> 
phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=25924437
> 4
>>
>> Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project
>> Donna is Head of Media Relations for the nonprofit
>> Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind:
>> www.padnfb.org
>>
>>
>> On 8/26/2010 9:47 PM, Allison Nastoff wrote:
>> > Hi Everyone,
>> > Since this list has been talking about technology that would allow
> the
>> > blind to drive, I thought it would be interesting to start a
>> > discussion on a story I saw on yesterday's episode of Good Morning
>> > America. The story was about technology being developed that
> projects
>> > images on to the tongue using electrical signals that the blind can
>> > feel, which in a sense allows them to "see with their tongue". I
> hope
>> > you don't mind me cross posting this since it was discussed on
> another
>> > NFB list, but since it was off topic for that list, I thought it
> would
>> > be interesting to continue the discussion on this list.
>> > I also wanted to get your opinions because when I was in sixth
> grade,
>> > I participated in a research study for this technology at a local
>> > college when it was very early in its development. I dropped out of
>> > the study after the first year, and maybe in the years since, the
>> > technology has improved. But I remember that when I was in the
> study,
>> > the strip that I put on to my tongue extended from a large machine
>> > which sent the electrical stimulation to my tongue. This machine
> was
>> > connected to a camera which sent the images to a computer, and a
> board
>> > covered with cloth to create a white background also had to be set
> up
>> > behind the camera. So the point I am trying to make is that this
> was
>> > way too much gear to walk around my kitchen or go rock 
climbing with
>> > the way the blind participants did in this segment. But it also
>> > seemed kind of impractical because it was hard to tell what the
> shapes
>> > were, even when it came to braille dots which I read expertly with
> my
>> > fingers, and I know I can locate objects around the kitchen much
>> > faster with my fingers. Don't get me wrong. The concept of seeing
>> > with your tongue is pretty cool, and I understand how it could be
>> > useful for people like the man featured in this video since he went
>> > blind as an adult, but since I have been blind all of my life, I
>> > wonder if investing in this kind of technology makes 
sense, or if it
>> > would be more beneficial to invest the resources in teaching people
> to
>> > adapt to their blindness with the traditional, and I think more
>> > efficient way, using your fingers, ears and nose, or at 
least invest
>> > in technology that restores sight for real, rather than just coming
> up
>> > with some weird inefficient contraption to see with their tongue.
>> > What do you all think? Is there anyone else on this list who has
>> > participated in research for this kind of technology? If so, what
> were
>> > your feelings about it? I am always interested in getting other
>> > people's perspectives about innovations like this. Here is the link
>> > to the story.
>> > http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/helping-blind-people-tongues-1147
>> > 7360
>> > Allison Nastoff
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Writers Division web site:
>> > http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>> > <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>> >
>> > stylist mailing list
>> > stylist at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
>> > stylist:
>> >
> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/penatwork%40epi
> x.net
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514)
>> > Database version: 6.15740
>> > http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514)
>> Database version: 6.15740
>> http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site:
>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>
>> stylist mailing list
>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> stylist:
>>
> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%4
> 0hotmail.com
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 05:56:41 -0500
> From: "Robert Leslie Newman" <newmanrl at cox.net>
> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [stylist] seeing with your tongue
> Message-ID: <33F7BE1A3D274A40ABD1DCCB94BAE33C at Newmans>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> On this seeing with your tongue thing. Guess I am of the 
opinion that if
> there is money out there for research and development of alternative
> sight,
> then go for it. And I say this, tongue in cheek, sight is better than
> being
> blind. --- Hold on with the storm of thoughts words and recriminations
> ---
> I'll just explain my last statement by this super generalizing
> definition-
> This world is setup for the sighted and there are fewer hassles if you
> are
> sighted. And so in saying that "having sight is better than being
> blind,"
> and getting back to the general topic of this thread, I support things
> like
> these experimentation "seeing" projects, though many of them 
will be too
> weird and not functional or practical or acceptable for one or more
> reasons.
> Yet, there probably is one or more eventual outcomes that 
will be equal
> and
> acceptable to "normal" vision and/or even superior to what we 
were born
> with. And I also support any research that could prevent the human
> embryo
> from developing with a medical and/or physical condition that 
would upon
> birth be there or develop blindness later in that persons life. And in
> saying all this, in general I'm saying that I am for eliminating all
> human
> abnormalities, be they hereditary or congenital or even cause later in
> life
> by accidents (repairing the broken part or replacing it).
>
> And so, can we successfully live with blindness? I don't feel 
I need to
> tell
> you this answer --- you know it and I know it and most of us 
believe and
> live it. Again, I am for improving the human experience; 
which includes
> the
> personal choice of being blind, if you so choose to be.
>
>
>
> Robert Leslie Newman
> President- NFB Writers' Division
> Division Website
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
> Personal Website-
> http://www.thoughtprovoker.info
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Allison Nastoff
> Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 8:48 PM
> To: stylist at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [stylist] seeing with your tongue
>
> Hi Everyone,
> Since this list has been talking about technology that would
> allow the blind to drive, I thought it would be interesting to
> start a discussion on a story I saw on yesterday's episode of
> Good Morning America. The story was about technology being
> developed that projects images on to the tongue using electrical
> signals that the blind can feel, which in a sense allows them to
> "see with their tongue". I hope you don't mind me cross posting
> this since it was discussed on another NFB list, but since it was
> off topic for that list, I thought it would be interesting to
> continue the discussion on this list.
> I also wanted to get your opinions because when I was in sixth
> grade, I participated in a research study for this technology at
> a local college when it was very early in its development. I
> dropped out of the study after the first year, and maybe in the
> years since, the technology has improved. But I remember that
> when I was in the study, the strip that I put on to my tongue
> extended from a large machine which sent the electrical
> stimulation to my tongue. This machine was connected to a camera
> which sent the images to a computer, and a board covered with
> cloth to create a white background also had to be set up behind
> the camera. So the point I am trying to make is that this was
> way too much gear to walk around my kitchen or go rock climbing
> with the way the blind participants did in this segment. But it
> also seemed kind of impractical because it was hard to tell what
> the shapes were, even when it came to braille dots which I read
> expertly with my fingers, and I know I can locate objects around
> the kitchen much faster with my fingers. Don't get me wrong.
> The concept of seeing with your tongue is pretty cool, and I
> understand how it could be useful for people like the man
> featured in this video since he went blind as an adult, but since
> I have been blind all of my life, I wonder if investing in this
> kind of technology makes sense, or if it would be more beneficial
> to invest the resources in teaching people to adapt to their
> blindness with the traditional, and I think more efficient way,
> using your fingers, ears and nose, or at least invest in
> technology that restores sight for real, rather than just coming
> up with some weird inefficient contraption to see with their
> tongue. What do you all think? Is there anyone else on this list
> who has participated in research for this kind of technology? If
> so, what were your feelings about it? I am always interested in
> getting other people's perspectives about innovations like this.
> Here is the link to the story.
> http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/helping-blind-people-tongues-1147
> 7360
> Allison Nastoff
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> stylist:
> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/newmanrl%40cox.
> net
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>
>
> End of stylist Digest, Vol 76, Issue 47
> ***************************************
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
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7%40verizon.net?

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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 09:32:54 -0400
From: "Chris Kuell" <ckuell at comcast.net>
To: <jsorozco at gmail.com>, "Writer's Division Mailing List"
      <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [stylist] a better use for tongues
Message-ID: <6582DAD928ED45F1B46792F2ACC71410 at ChrisPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
      reply-type=original

Howdy, folks. I've been lurking for a while, and thought I'd post a 500
word 
essay I wrote last year on the benefits of blindness. For personal
reasons, 
I wrote it under my pseudonym, Reid Fleming.

chris

The Ten Best Things About Being Blind

By Reid Fleming

I lost my eyesight ten years ago at the age of thirty-two. Along with my

vision, I lost my fianc?e, and my wiener dog Sledge went to that eternal

farm when I was at my lowest. However, I'm happy to report there's a
good 
side to blindness as well. In fact, I can rattle off ten great things
about 
being blind easy as pie.

One.  The first best thing about being blind is NLS books. You can get 
thousands of books and magazines, on tape or in Braille, delivered to
your 
home, returned at your leisure-for free. Is America great, or what?

Two. At airports, blind people can board early if they like, and I
say-why 
not? You get a nice stewardess to show you to your seat before the
crowds 
come, and there's no worrying about having room in the overhead bin.
Plus, 
twice I've been bumped up to first class. Sweet.

Three. Related to travel is discount bus fares. I know, if we are ever
to 
receive full acceptance, we have to pay equally. But, I'm what some
might 
call frugal, and saving a buck makes me happy.

Four. Using Braille is like being in a selective club where we use a
secret 
language. In other words, every kid's dream-come-true. I was at a
meeting 
one time, and this blowhard was blabbering on while I used my Braille
Lite 
to write-I wish this guy would just shut the hell up. Everybody probably

thought-Oh, look at how interested Reid is, taking notes-what a great 
employee!

Five. Guide dogs are incredible animals, some of the best Dogs on the 
planet-and we can have them almost for free. Think about it-these highly

trained helpers and companions and all you have to do is work, love, and

take care of them.

  Six. Here's a fun thing. Next time you're at a party, pick someone out

that you want to meet, and have a friend describe them in detail. Make
your 
way over and join in on a conversation, and get to know the person a
little. 
Ask how tall they are, or how old they are, and then say you've
developed a 
mental picture of them, and describe them exactly. Freaks them out!

Seven. Blind people are not forced to look at all the ugliness in the
world. 
There's undocumented amounts of garbage and graffiti and dog poop and 
suburban blight out there-and it's not pretty.

Eight. The flip side of that coin is that people all become better
looking 
than they really are. When I'm talking to someone, I never imagine they
have 
a boil on their neck, or really crooked teeth, or are having a really
bad 
hair day-even though they might.

Nine. There's an old clich?-out of sight, out of mind, and it's true.
What 
cobwebs?   What dust? There's nothing wrong with that wallpaper!

Ten. The final reason I like being a blind guy is because I get to hang 
around blind people. Before I went blind, the only other blind person I
ever 
met was my second-cousin Zebediah, and the court agreement says I can't 
really talk about him. But I've met all kinds of blind people at NFB 
conventions-artists and lawyers and BEP operators and computer
programmers 
and tattoo artists-and you realize there's nothing that can't be done.
Just 
work up your courage and figure it out.

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 09:48:07 -0400
From: "Jacobson, Shawn D" <Shawn.D.Jacobson at hud.gov>
To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List' <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] a better use for tongues
Message-ID:

<A1A3EBA504582C449F7E37E5039CCD1710F8782B60 at EXMAIL03A.exh.prod.hud.gov>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Chris

I have a couple of other good things about being blind.

First, you don't have to see what you are eating; this comes in great
when you have kinds and they want Spungebob Mac. & Cheese; you know the
stuff with the food coloring that's bilious green in color.

Second, when you're blind you don't have to be the designated driver.

Shawn

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Chris Kuell
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 9:33 AM
To: jsorozco at gmail.com; Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: [stylist] a better use for tongues

Howdy, folks. I've been lurking for a while, and thought I'd post a 500
word 
essay I wrote last year on the benefits of blindness. For personal
reasons, 
I wrote it under my pseudonym, Reid Fleming.

chris

The Ten Best Things About Being Blind

By Reid Fleming

I lost my eyesight ten years ago at the age of thirty-two. Along with my

vision, I lost my fianc?e, and my wiener dog Sledge went to that eternal

farm when I was at my lowest. However, I'm happy to report there's a
good 
side to blindness as well. In fact, I can rattle off ten great things
about 
being blind easy as pie.

One.  The first best thing about being blind is NLS books. You can get 
thousands of books and magazines, on tape or in Braille, delivered to
your 
home, returned at your leisure-for free. Is America great, or what?

Two. At airports, blind people can board early if they like, and I
say-why 
not? You get a nice stewardess to show you to your seat before the
crowds 
come, and there's no worrying about having room in the overhead bin.
Plus, 
twice I've been bumped up to first class. Sweet.

Three. Related to travel is discount bus fares. I know, if we are ever
to 
receive full acceptance, we have to pay equally. But, I'm what some
might 
call frugal, and saving a buck makes me happy.

Four. Using Braille is like being in a selective club where we use a
secret 
language. In other words, every kid's dream-come-true. I was at a
meeting 
one time, and this blowhard was blabbering on while I used my Braille
Lite 
to write-I wish this guy would just shut the hell up. Everybody probably

thought-Oh, look at how interested Reid is, taking notes-what a great 
employee!

Five. Guide dogs are incredible animals, some of the best Dogs on the 
planet-and we can have them almost for free. Think about it-these highly

trained helpers and companions and all you have to do is work, love, and

take care of them.

  Six. Here's a fun thing. Next time you're at a party, pick someone out

that you want to meet, and have a friend describe them in detail. Make
your 
way over and join in on a conversation, and get to know the person a
little. 
Ask how tall they are, or how old they are, and then say you've
developed a 
mental picture of them, and describe them exactly. Freaks them out!

Seven. Blind people are not forced to look at all the ugliness in the
world. 
There's undocumented amounts of garbage and graffiti and dog poop and 
suburban blight out there-and it's not pretty.

Eight. The flip side of that coin is that people all become better
looking 
than they really are. When I'm talking to someone, I never imagine they
have 
a boil on their neck, or really crooked teeth, or are having a really
bad 
hair day-even though they might.

Nine. There's an old clich?-out of sight, out of mind, and it's true.
What 
cobwebs?   What dust? There's nothing wrong with that wallpaper!

Ten. The final reason I like being a blind guy is because I get to hang 
around blind people. Before I went blind, the only other blind person I
ever 
met was my second-cousin Zebediah, and the court agreement says I can't 
really talk about him. But I've met all kinds of blind people at NFB 
conventions-artists and lawyers and BEP operators and computer
programmers 
and tattoo artists-and you realize there's nothing that can't be done.
Just 
work up your courage and figure it out.

_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site:
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>

stylist mailing list
stylist at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
stylist:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/shawn.d.jacobso
n%40hud.gov

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 08:53:34 -0500
From: "Robert Leslie Newman" <newmanrl at cox.net>
To: "writers nfb" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [stylist] FW: My Book has been published! NBP - Our Bookstore
      - Hot off the Braille Press
Message-ID: <1B392F26199C4ED0A1A3578242E0D1AE at Newmans>
Content-Type: text/plain;     charset="us-ascii"

Here is an announcement! Good news for Miss Toni! 

-----Original Message-----
From: Toni [mailto:trfraser at sbcglobal.net] 
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 2:32 PM
To: Toni
Subject: My Book has been published! NBP - Our Bookstore - Hot off the
Braille Press

Hi all,
Fantastic News! My book has finally been published! Please check it out
at
the link below! Please forward this information to anyone you feel would
be
interested or could benefit from the book! 

http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/publications/hot_off.html

Toni Fraser 
Author!

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 09:56:54 EDT
From: KajunCutie926 at aol.com
To: stylist at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [stylist] a better use for tongues
Message-ID: <e74d8.4930caa7.39ae6426 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"

I'm loving these... got one too

Perque to being blind... have someone you really are  not fond of and 
wouldn't wave to across the room even if you could see?   Next time they
tell you 
'I waved at you but you must not have seen me".. Nod  your head and say 
'nope, sure didn't'.. who would know for sure  right?

I know that's being a brat.. and I'll go to my room  now..LOL

In a message dated 8/31/2010 8:51:38 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
Shawn.D.Jacobson at hud.gov writes:

Chris

I have a couple of other good things about being  blind.

First, you don't have to see what you are eating; this comes in  great
when 
you have kinds and they want Spungebob Mac. & Cheese; you know  the
stuff 
with the food coloring that's bilious green in color.

Second,  when you're blind you don't have to be the designated  driver.

Shawn

-----Original Message-----
From:  stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On

Behalf Of  Chris Kuell
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 9:33 AM
To:  jsorozco at gmail.com; Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: [stylist] a  better use for tongues

Howdy, folks. I've been lurking for a while, and  thought I'd post a 500

word 
essay I wrote last year on the benefits of  blindness. For personal 
reasons, 
I wrote it under my pseudonym, Reid  Fleming.

chris

The Ten Best Things About Being  Blind

By Reid Fleming

I lost my eyesight ten years ago at the  age of thirty-two. Along with
my 
vision, I lost my fianc?e, and my wiener  dog Sledge went to that
eternal 
farm when I was at my lowest. However, I'm  happy to report there's a
good 
side to blindness as well. In fact, I can  rattle off ten great things 
about 
being blind easy as  pie.

One.  The first best thing about being blind is NLS books.  You can get 
thousands of books and magazines, on tape or in Braille,  delivered to
your 
home, returned at your leisure-for free. Is America  great, or what?

Two. At airports, blind people can board early if they  like, and I
say-why 
not? You get a nice stewardess to show you to your  seat before the
crowds 
come, and there's no worrying about having room in  the overhead bin.
Plus, 
twice I've been bumped up to first class.  Sweet.

Three. Related to travel is discount bus fares. I know, if we  are ever
to 
receive full acceptance, we have to pay equally. But, I'm what  some
might 
call frugal, and saving a buck makes me happy.

Four.  Using Braille is like being in a selective club where we use a 
secret  
language. In other words, every kid's dream-come-true. I was at a
meeting  
one time, and this blowhard was blabbering on while I used my Braille
Lite  
to write-I wish this guy would just shut the hell up. Everybody probably

thought-Oh, look at how interested Reid is, taking notes-what a great  
employee!

Five. Guide dogs are incredible animals, some of the best  Dogs on the 
planet-and we can have them almost for free. Think about  it-these
highly 
trained helpers and companions and all you have to do is  work, love,
and 
take care of them.

Six. Here's a fun thing.  Next time you're at a party, pick someone out 
that you want to meet, and  have a friend describe them in detail. Make 
your 
way over and join in on a  conversation, and get to know the person a 
little. 
Ask how tall they are,  or how old they are, and then say you've
developed 
a 
mental picture of  them, and describe them exactly. Freaks them out!

Seven. Blind people  are not forced to look at all the ugliness in the 
world. 
There's  undocumented amounts of garbage and graffiti and dog poop and 
suburban  blight out there-and it's not pretty.

Eight. The flip side of that coin  is that people all become better
looking 
than they really are. When I'm  talking to someone, I never imagine they

have 
a boil on their neck, or  really crooked teeth, or are having a really
bad 
hair day-even though they  might.

Nine. There's an old clich?-out of sight, out of mind, and it's  true.
What 
cobwebs?   What dust? There's nothing wrong with that  wallpaper!

Ten. The final reason I like being a blind guy is because I  get to hang

around blind people. Before I went blind, the only other blind  person I

ever 
met was my second-cousin Zebediah, and the court agreement  says I can't

really talk about him. But I've met all kinds of blind people  at NFB 
conventions-artists and lawyers and BEP operators and computer
programmers 
and tattoo artists-and you realize there's nothing that can't  be done. 
Just 
work up your courage and figure it  out.

_______________________________________________
Writers  Division web site:
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>

stylist mailing  list
stylist at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for  
stylist:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/shawn.d.jacobso
n%40
hud.gov

_______________________________________________
Writers  Division web site:
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>

stylist mailing  list
stylist at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for  
stylist:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nf
bnet.org/kajuncutie926%40aol.com

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 09:58:37 EDT
From: KajunCutie926 at aol.com
To: newmanrl at cox.net, stylist at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [stylist] FW: My Book has been published! NBP - Our
      Bookstore - Hot off t...
Message-ID: <e76d4.2d9437ec.39ae648d at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Great news Toni!!

In a message dated 8/31/2010 8:55:52 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
newmanrl at cox.net writes:

Here is  an announcement! Good news for Miss Toni! 

-----Original  Message-----
From: Toni [mailto:trfraser at sbcglobal.net] 
Sent: Monday,  August 30, 2010 2:32 PM
To: Toni
Subject: My Book has been published!  NBP - Our Bookstore - Hot off the
Braille Press

Hi all,
Fantastic  News! My book has finally been published! Please check it out
at
the link  below! Please forward this information to anyone you feel
would  
be
interested or could benefit from the book!  

http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/publications/hot_off.html

Toni  Fraser  
Author!

_______________________________________________
Writers  Division web site:
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>

stylist mailing  list
stylist at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for  
stylist:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/kajuncutie926%4
0aol
.com

------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 10:25:13 -0400
From: "Jacobson, Shawn D" <Shawn.D.Jacobson at hud.gov>
To: "'newmanrl at cox.net'" <newmanrl at cox.net>, 'Writer's Division
      Mailing List'     <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] FW: My Book has been published! NBP - Our
      Bookstore - Hot   off the Braille Press
Message-ID:

<A1A3EBA504582C449F7E37E5039CCD1710F8782BFB at EXMAIL03A.exh.prod.hud.gov>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Robert

Which book was Miss Toni's; I didn't see a title in the message.

Shawn

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Robert Leslie Newman
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 9:54 AM
To: writers nfb
Subject: [stylist] FW: My Book has been published! NBP - Our Bookstore -
Hot off the Braille Press

Here is an announcement! Good news for Miss Toni! 

-----Original Message-----
From: Toni [mailto:trfraser at sbcglobal.net] 
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 2:32 PM
To: Toni
Subject: My Book has been published! NBP - Our Bookstore - Hot off the
Braille Press

Hi all,
Fantastic News! My book has finally been published! Please check it out
at
the link below! Please forward this information to anyone you feel would
be
interested or could benefit from the book! 

http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/publications/hot_off.html

Toni Fraser 
Author!

_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site:
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>

stylist mailing list
stylist at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
stylist:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/shawn.d.jacobso
n%40hud.gov

------------------------------

_______________________________________________
stylist mailing list
stylist at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org

End of stylist Digest, Vol 76, Issue 51
***************************************

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 14:16:30 -0500
From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" <bpollpeter at hotmail.com>
To: <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [stylist] Literary Merits in Harry Potter
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP202FACD304C99FC2A38D9E6C48A0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Hey gang,

To bring a discussion back around to writing and literature, I pose
something for contemplation.

I recently finished a class (and it was an upper level class) on Harry
Potter.  The instructor, who actually is not a fan of most fantasy,
designed the course after students complained about not having enough
special topic courses in literature.  The class has grown in popularity
since its inception and is now offered once a year.

The objective of the class is to bring literary awareness to the series
through reading and discussing the seven books, creating dialogues
between classmates involving examples from the text, reading critical
sources on Rowling and the series, and finally writing a character
analysis (mine was on Bellatrix Lestrange).

Now, I enjoy Harry Potter and was already a fan who had read many of the
books more than once before taking the class, but I did not fully
realize the historical and mythiclogical sources Rowling drew upon to
write her series.  Once I began to study the background of Rowling and
where she found many of her inspirations, I could not believe the
magnitutde of what she accomplished.  Her series is so intertwined with
historical and mythiclogical references, it is astounding how
intelligent Rowling is, and I am impressed by her level of research for
a young adult series.  From the meaning of names, to the use of real
historical figures, to the existence of imaginative creatures, Rowling
created a world with characters readers have to come to love and
identify with.

However, I still wonder if the writing itself suggest a literary genius.
Clearly it is a good story that millions love, but box office success
does not always mean writing has literary value.  As I read through the
books again, I found myself irrited with some inconsistencies, and the
writing at times felt immature.  Some of the books are better written
than others, in my opinion, such as the first book, The Sorceror's
Stone, and the last book, The Deathly Hallows.  Maybe this is because
less time is spent on teen-age romance, and more focus is placed on the
central plot.  I recently found a quote by Stephan King claiming that
the difference between Rowling and the author of the Twilight series, is
that Rowling can write.  This is funny to me, and I do agree with it,
but I still wonder just how great Rowling is.

I enjoy reading Rowling's work, but then I read other young adult
writers such as Donna Jo Napoli or even C. S. Lewis or Patrick Rothfuss
(whose book, The Name of the Wind, has been dubbed the adult Harry
Potter) and I notice a difference in the writing.  Rowling does
foreshadowing and metaphor very well, but I would not refer to her
writing as literary fiction.  Rowling's use of language is simple, and
many of the sub-plots are immature.  She does develop characters well,
and she provides an element of mystery in all the books.  Often, Rowling
has the ability to evoke emotions too.

So I wonder what others think on this matter.  Where do you stand on the
argument, and what are your feelings.  If you stand in favor of Rowling,
where do you find evidence of this?

Enjoy!  *smile*

Bridgit

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 15:34:25 -0400
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Literary Merits in Harry Potter
Message-ID: <545F6E130FAF4B89AFFAF568AB632E01 at Rufus>
Content-Type: text/plain;     charset="us-ascii"

Remind me again what literary fiction means exactly?  I heard 
the concept
thrown around my English classes but am ashamed to admit I never truly
understood what it meant.  My understanding is that literary 
fiction is its
own genre, which makes no sense to me.  I personally enjoy 
writing for the
sake of writing.  In my mind, I will either develop characters and plots
well, or I won't.  But I guess before I can contribute to the 
discussion, I
need to be set straight on what it is we're discussing.

Great topic.

Joe

P.S. The Twilight series is not as great as Harry Potter but is 
still good.
David Andrews admitted to reading it and enjoying it, and I just had to
check it out for myself after an endorsement from a guy like David...

"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up 
their sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing 

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bridgit Pollpeter
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 3:17 PM
To: stylist at nfbnet.org
Subject: [stylist] Literary Merits in Harry Potter

Hey gang,

To bring a discussion back around to writing and literature, I pose
something for contemplation.

I recently finished a class (and it was an upper level class) on Harry
Potter.  The instructor, who actually is not a fan of most fantasy,
designed the course after students complained about not having enough
special topic courses in literature.  The class has grown in popularity
since its inception and is now offered once a year.

The objective of the class is to bring literary awareness to the series
through reading and discussing the seven books, creating dialogues
between classmates involving examples from the text, reading critical
sources on Rowling and the series, and finally writing a character
analysis (mine was on Bellatrix Lestrange).

Now, I enjoy Harry Potter and was already a fan who had read many of the
books more than once before taking the class, but I did not fully
realize the historical and mythiclogical sources Rowling drew upon to
write her series.  Once I began to study the background of Rowling and
where she found many of her inspirations, I could not believe the
magnitutde of what she accomplished.  Her series is so intertwined with
historical and mythiclogical references, it is astounding how
intelligent Rowling is, and I am impressed by her level of research for
a young adult series.  From the meaning of names, to the use of real
historical figures, to the existence of imaginative creatures, Rowling
created a world with characters readers have to come to love and
identify with.

However, I still wonder if the writing itself suggest a literary genius.
Clearly it is a good story that millions love, but box office success
does not always mean writing has literary value.  As I read through the
books again, I found myself irrited with some inconsistencies, and the
writing at times felt immature.  Some of the books are better written
than others, in my opinion, such as the first book, The Sorceror's
Stone, and the last book, The Deathly Hallows.  Maybe this is because
less time is spent on teen-age romance, and more focus is placed on the
central plot.  I recently found a quote by Stephan King claiming that
the difference between Rowling and the author of the Twilight series, is
that Rowling can write.  This is funny to me, and I do agree with it,
but I still wonder just how great Rowling is.

I enjoy reading Rowling's work, but then I read other young adult
writers such as Donna Jo Napoli or even C. S. Lewis or Patrick Rothfuss
(whose book, The Name of the Wind, has been dubbed the adult Harry
Potter) and I notice a difference in the writing.  Rowling does
foreshadowing and metaphor very well, but I would not refer to her
writing as literary fiction.  Rowling's use of language is simple, and
many of the sub-plots are immature.  She does develop characters well,
and she provides an element of mystery in all the books.  
Often, Rowling
has the ability to evoke emotions too.

So I wonder what others think on this matter.  Where do you stand on the
argument, and what are your feelings.  If you stand in favor of Rowling,
where do you find evidence of this?

Enjoy!  *smile*

Bridgit
_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site:
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org 
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>

stylist mailing list
stylist at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
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info for stylist:
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o%40gmail.com

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 21:45:51 -0400
From: loristay at aol.com
To: stylist at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [stylist] Literary Merits in Harry Potter
Message-ID: <8CD178E8B42884D-1894-600F at webmail-d074.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

The one thing you can say about Rowling is that she keeps you 
reading.  That's what we all aspire to.  No, it's not great 
literature, but then I often quarrel with others opinions about 
what is great and what is not.
Lori

-----Original Message-----
From: Bridgit Pollpeter <bpollpeter at hotmail.com>
To: stylist at nfbnet.org
Sent: Tue, Aug 31, 2010 3:16 pm
Subject: [stylist] Literary Merits in Harry Potter

Hey gang,

To bring a discussion back around to writing and literature, I pose
something for contemplation.

I recently finished a class (and it was an upper level class) on Harry
Potter.  The instructor, who actually is not a fan of most fantasy,
designed the course after students complained about not having enough
special topic courses in literature.  The class has grown in popularity
since its inception and is now offered once a year.

The objective of the class is to bring literary awareness to the series
through reading and discussing the seven books, creating dialogues
between classmates involving examples from the text, reading critical
sources on Rowling and the series, and finally writing a character
analysis (mine was on Bellatrix Lestrange).

Now, I enjoy Harry Potter and was already a fan who had read many of the
books more than once before taking the class, but I did not fully
realize the historical and mythiclogical sources Rowling drew upon to
write her series.  Once I began to study the background of Rowling and
where she found many of her inspirations, I could not believe the
magnitutde of what she accomplished.  Her series is so intertwined with
historical and mythiclogical references, it is astounding how
intelligent Rowling is, and I am impressed by her level of research for
a young adult series.  From the meaning of names, to the use of real
historical figures, to the existence of imaginative creatures, Rowling
created a world with characters readers have to come to love and
identify with.

However, I still wonder if the writing itself suggest a literary genius.
Clearly it is a good story that millions love, but box office success
does not always mean writing has literary value.  As I read through the
books again, I found myself irrited with some inconsistencies, and the
writing at times felt immature.  Some of the books are better written
than others, in my opinion, such as the first book, The Sorceror's
Stone, and the last book, The Deathly Hallows.  Maybe this is because
less time is spent on teen-age romance, and more focus is placed on the
central plot.  I recently found a quote by Stephan King claiming that
the difference between Rowling and the author of the Twilight series, is
that Rowling can write.  This is funny to me, and I do agree with it,
but I still wonder just how great Rowling is.

I enjoy reading Rowling's work, but then I read other young adult
writers such as Donna Jo Napoli or even C. S. Lewis or Patrick Rothfuss
(whose book, The Name of the Wind, has been dubbed the adult Harry
Potter) and I notice a difference in the writing.  Rowling does
foreshadowing and metaphor very well, but I would not refer to her
writing as literary fiction.  Rowling's use of language is simple, and
many of the sub-plots are immature.  She does develop characters well,
and she provides an element of mystery in all the books.  Often, Rowling
has the ability to evoke emotions too.

So I wonder what others think on this matter.  Where do you stand on the
argument, and what are your feelings.  If you stand in favor of Rowling,
where do you find evidence of this?

Enjoy!  *smile*

Bridgit
_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site:
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org 
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>

stylist mailing list
stylist at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for stylist:
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y%40aol.com

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2010 00:00:46 -0500
From: Allison Nastoff <anastoff at wi.rr.com>
To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] a better use for tongues
Message-ID: <15.1D.11248.02EDD7C4 at hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed

Very well said Chris.  I agree with you that there are so many 
perks to being blind.  One other perk came to mind as I was 
listening to America's Got Talent on television tonight.  When it 
comes to talent shows, and music award shows, it always amazes me 
how people will win awards or advance to the next round in a 
competition who are terrible singers, while really good singers 
don't get awards.  I wonder if it is because sighted people go 
for people who look good, and don't care as much whether or not 
they sound good.  By contrast, when you are blind and cannot see 
what people look like, you are a much better judge of who has 
real talent.  If only there were more blind people in the world, 
maybe so many bad songs wouldn't top the radio charts!
Allison Nastoff

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Kuell" <ckuell at comcast.net
To: <jsorozco at gmail.com>, "Writer's Division Mailing List" 
<stylist at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 09:32:54 -0400
Subject: [stylist] a better use for tongues

Howdy, folks.  I've been lurking for a while, and thought I'd 
post a 500 word
essay I wrote last year on the benefits of blindness.  For 
personal reasons,
I wrote it under my pseudonym, Reid Fleming.

chris

The Ten Best Things About Being Blind

By Reid Fleming

I lost my eyesight ten years ago at the age of thirty-two.  Along 
with my
vision, I lost my fianc?e, and my wiener dog Sledge went to that 
eternal
farm when I was at my lowest.  However, I'm happy to report 
there's a good
side to blindness as well.  In fact, I can rattle off ten great 
things about
being blind easy as pie.

One.  The first best thing about being blind is NLS books.  You 
can get
thousands of books and magazines, on tape or in Braille, 
delivered to your
home, returned at your leisure-for free.  Is America great, or 
what?

Two.  At airports, blind people can board early if they like, and 
I say-why
not? You get a nice stewardess to show you to your seat before 
the crowds
come, and there's no worrying about having room in the overhead 
bin.  Plus,
twice I've been bumped up to first class.  Sweet.

Three.  Related to travel is discount bus fares.  I know, if we 
are ever to
receive full acceptance, we have to pay equally.  But, I'm what 
some might
call frugal, and saving a buck makes me happy.

Four.  Using Braille is like being in a selective club where we 
use a secret
language.  In other words, every kid's dream-come-true.  I was at 
a meeting
one time, and this blowhard was blabbering on while I used my 
Braille Lite
to write-I wish this guy would just shut the hell up.  Everybody 
probably
thought-Oh, look at how interested Reid is, taking notes-what a 
great
employee!

Five.  Guide dogs are incredible animals, some of the best Dogs 
on the
planet-and we can have them almost for free.  Think about 
it-these highly
trained helpers and companions and all you have to do is work, 
love, and
take care of them.

  Six.  Here's a fun thing.  Next time you're at a party, pick 
someone out
that you want to meet, and have a friend describe them in detail.  
Make your
way over and join in on a conversation, and get to know the 
person a little..
Ask how tall they are, or how old they are, and then say you've 
developed a
mental picture of them, and describe them exactly.  Freaks them 
out!

Seven.  Blind people are not forced to look at all the ugliness 
in the world..
There's undocumented amounts of garbage and graffiti and dog poop 
and
suburban blight out there-and it's not pretty.

Eight.  The flip side of that coin is that people all become 
better looking
than they really are.  When I'm talking to someone, I never 
imagine they have
a boil on their neck, or really crooked teeth, or are having a 
really bad
hair day-even though they might.

Nine.  There's an old clich?-out of sight, out of mind, and it's 
true.  What
cobwebs?   What dust? There's nothing wrong with that wallpaper!

Ten.  The final reason I like being a blind guy is because I get 
to hang
around blind people.  Before I went blind, the only other blind 
person I ever
met was my second-cousin Zebediah, and the court agreement says I 
can't
really talk about him.  But I've met all kinds of blind people at 
NFB
conventions-artists and lawyers and BEP operators and computer 
programmers
and tattoo artists-and you realize there's nothing that can't be 
done.  Just
work up your courage and figure it out.

_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site:
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org 
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/

stylist mailing list
stylist at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for stylist:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/anastoff
%40wi.rr.com

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 21:51:37 -0600
From: "Aziza C" <daydreamingncolor at gmail.com>
To: <jsorozco at gmail.com>,     "'Writer's Division Mailing List'"
      <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Literary Merits in Harry Potter
Message-ID: <005301cb4988$fb7ec440$f27c4cc0$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain;     charset="us-ascii"

I am a little biased. I grew up reading Harry Potter, so in a 
way not only
is it an amazing series to me, it was a kind of security 
blanket. I started
reading in second grade, and was a junior in high school when the series
ended.

I believe Rowling has a unique ability. I haven't studied the 
differences
between different kinds of fiction, but I have read some books 
that annalize
the series and its historical references. The historical and 
mythological
references are intriguing to me, and helped me understand what, 
as a child,
I took for an amazing imagination. As for her writing ability, 
I am quite
impressed. Rowling has an ability to draw in readers of all 
ages, which not
many can do, in my opinion. I think most authors have a 
particular audience
that they write for, but Rowling found her readers in so many different
groups. I believe this is do to the amount of suspense, romance, action,
foreshadowing, and the way she dropped clues, but kept us 
guessing. I also
think that her writing changed throughout the series to reflect 
the change
in the characters. It seems to me that her writing aged with Harry.

Just a few thoughts. I do think that Bridget is right, the 7th book was
amazingly written!

Aziza
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Joe Orozco
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 1:34 PM
To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [stylist] Literary Merits in Harry Potter

Remind me again what literary fiction means exactly?  I heard 
the concept
thrown around my English classes but am ashamed to admit I never truly
understood what it meant.  My understanding is that literary 
fiction is its
own genre, which makes no sense to me.  I personally enjoy 
writing for the
sake of writing.  In my mind, I will either develop characters and plots
well, or I won't.  But I guess before I can contribute to the 
discussion, I
need to be set straight on what it is we're discussing.

Great topic.

Joe

P.S. The Twilight series is not as great as Harry Potter but is 
still good.
David Andrews admitted to reading it and enjoying it, and I just had to
check it out for myself after an endorsement from a guy like David...

"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up 
their sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing 

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bridgit Pollpeter
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 3:17 PM
To: stylist at nfbnet.org
Subject: [stylist] Literary Merits in Harry Potter

Hey gang,

To bring a discussion back around to writing and literature, I pose
something for contemplation.

I recently finished a class (and it was an upper level class) on Harry
Potter.  The instructor, who actually is not a fan of most fantasy,
designed the course after students complained about not having enough
special topic courses in literature.  The class has grown in popularity
since its inception and is now offered once a year.

The objective of the class is to bring literary awareness to the series
through reading and discussing the seven books, creating dialogues
between classmates involving examples from the text, reading critical
sources on Rowling and the series, and finally writing a character
analysis (mine was on Bellatrix Lestrange).

Now, I enjoy Harry Potter and was already a fan who had read many of the
books more than once before taking the class, but I did not fully
realize the historical and mythiclogical sources Rowling drew upon to
write her series.  Once I began to study the background of Rowling and
where she found many of her inspirations, I could not believe the
magnitutde of what she accomplished.  Her series is so intertwined with
historical and mythiclogical references, it is astounding how
intelligent Rowling is, and I am impressed by her level of research for
a young adult series.  From the meaning of names, to the use of real
historical figures, to the existence of imaginative creatures, Rowling
created a world with characters readers have to come to love and
identify with.

However, I still wonder if the writing itself suggest a literary genius.
Clearly it is a good story that millions love, but box office success
does not always mean writing has literary value.  As I read through the
books again, I found myself irrited with some inconsistencies, and the
writing at times felt immature.  Some of the books are better written
than others, in my opinion, such as the first book, The Sorceror's
Stone, and the last book, The Deathly Hallows.  Maybe this is because
less time is spent on teen-age romance, and more focus is placed on the
central plot.  I recently found a quote by Stephan King claiming that
the difference between Rowling and the author of the Twilight series, is
that Rowling can write.  This is funny to me, and I do agree with it,
but I still wonder just how great Rowling is.

I enjoy reading Rowling's work, but then I read other young adult
writers such as Donna Jo Napoli or even C. S. Lewis or Patrick Rothfuss
(whose book, The Name of the Wind, has been dubbed the adult Harry
Potter) and I notice a difference in the writing.  Rowling does
foreshadowing and metaphor very well, but I would not refer to her
writing as literary fiction.  Rowling's use of language is simple, and
many of the sub-plots are immature.  She does develop characters well,
and she provides an element of mystery in all the books.  
Often, Rowling
has the ability to evoke emotions too.

So I wonder what others think on this matter.  Where do you stand on the
argument, and what are your feelings.  If you stand in favor of Rowling,
where do you find evidence of this?

Enjoy!  *smile*

Bridgit
_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site:
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org 
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>

stylist mailing list
stylist at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for stylist:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/jsorozc
o%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site:
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org 
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>

stylist mailing list
stylist at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
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stylist:
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mingncolor%4
0gmail.com

------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 12:04:03 -0400
From: "Pat Harmon" <pharmon222 at comcast.net>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] a better use for tongues
Message-ID: <001301cb49ef$4c661140$bab15144 at default3gx6vng>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
      reply-type=response

Human beings are remarkable!  Our design includes five fabulous 
senses.  As 
blind individuals, the sense of sight cannot be denied its 
importance to 
others.  We learn to adapt quite successfully, but vision is indeed 
beautiful.

Performers usually pay attention to their appearance so that 
the audience 
enjoys looking at them.  I believe that is necessary.  In 
addition, blind 
performers must also look good to compete on an equal basis.

Those of us who once had vision maintain "visual memory" to 
improve some 
blindness techniques.  These include color use and body 
awareness.  Those 
blind from birth must learn about these in other ways.  No 
matter who we are 
and what our challenges, it is intelligent to use all we bring to daily 
life.  I think that makes us happy, blind or sighted.

I adore the ocean and fashion.  Visual memory allows me to 
celebrate their 
roles in my life today.  I love country music, but I also want 
to know if he 
is wearing jeans with holes or a wrinkled plaid shirt!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Allison Nastoff" <anastoff at wi.rr.com>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 1:00 AM
Subject: Re: [stylist] a better use for tongues

Very well said Chris.  I agree with you that there are so many
perks to being blind.  One other perk came to mind as I was
listening to America's Got Talent on television tonight.  When it
comes to talent shows, and music award shows, it always amazes me
how people will win awards or advance to the next round in a
competition who are terrible singers, while really good singers
don't get awards.  I wonder if it is because sighted people go
for people who look good, and don't care as much whether or not
they sound good.  By contrast, when you are blind and cannot see
what people look like, you are a much better judge of who has
real talent.  If only there were more blind people in the world,
maybe so many bad songs wouldn't top the radio charts!
Allison Nastoff

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Kuell" <ckuell at comcast.net
To: <jsorozco at gmail.com>, "Writer's Division Mailing List"
<stylist at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 09:32:54 -0400
Subject: [stylist] a better use for tongues

Howdy, folks.  I've been lurking for a while, and thought I'd
post a 500 word
essay I wrote last year on the benefits of blindness.  For
personal reasons,
I wrote it under my pseudonym, Reid Fleming.

chris

The Ten Best Things About Being Blind

By Reid Fleming

I lost my eyesight ten years ago at the age of thirty-two.  Along
with my
vision, I lost my fianc?e, and my wiener dog Sledge went to that
eternal
farm when I was at my lowest.  However, I'm happy to report
there's a good
side to blindness as well.  In fact, I can rattle off ten great
things about
being blind easy as pie.

One.  The first best thing about being blind is NLS books.  You
can get
thousands of books and magazines, on tape or in Braille,
delivered to your
home, returned at your leisure-for free.  Is America great, or
what?

Two.  At airports, blind people can board early if they like, and
I say-why
not? You get a nice stewardess to show you to your seat before
the crowds
come, and there's no worrying about having room in the overhead
bin.  Plus,
twice I've been bumped up to first class.  Sweet.

Three.  Related to travel is discount bus fares.  I know, if we
are ever to
receive full acceptance, we have to pay equally.  But, I'm what
some might
call frugal, and saving a buck makes me happy.

Four.  Using Braille is like being in a selective club where we
use a secret
language.  In other words, every kid's dream-come-true.  I was at
a meeting
one time, and this blowhard was blabbering on while I used my
Braille Lite
to write-I wish this guy would just shut the hell up.  Everybody
probably
thought-Oh, look at how interested Reid is, taking notes-what a
great
employee!

Five.  Guide dogs are incredible animals, some of the best Dogs
on the
planet-and we can have them almost for free.  Think about
it-these highly
trained helpers and companions and all you have to do is work,
love, and
take care of them.

  Six.  Here's a fun thing.  Next time you're at a party, pick
someone out
that you want to meet, and have a friend describe them in detail.
Make your
way over and join in on a conversation, and get to know the
person a little..
Ask how tall they are, or how old they are, and then say you've
developed a
mental picture of them, and describe them exactly.  Freaks them
out!

Seven.  Blind people are not forced to look at all the ugliness
in the world..
There's undocumented amounts of garbage and graffiti and dog poop
and
suburban blight out there-and it's not pretty.

Eight.  The flip side of that coin is that people all become
better looking
than they really are.  When I'm talking to someone, I never
imagine they have
a boil on their neck, or really crooked teeth, or are having a
really bad
hair day-even though they might.

Nine.  There's an old clich?-out of sight, out of mind, and it's
true.  What
cobwebs?   What dust? There's nothing wrong with that wallpaper!

Ten.  The final reason I like being a blind guy is because I get
to hang
around blind people.  Before I went blind, the only other blind
person I ever
met was my second-cousin Zebediah, and the court agreement says I
can't
really talk about him.  But I've met all kinds of blind people at
NFB
conventions-artists and lawyers and BEP operators and computer
programmers
and tattoo artists-and you realize there's nothing that can't be
done.  Just
work up your courage and figure it out.

_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site:
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/

stylist mailing list
stylist at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for stylist:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/anastoff
%40wi.rr.com

_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site:
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org 
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>

stylist mailing list
stylist at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
stylist:
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222%40comcast.net 

------------------------------

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End of stylist Digest, Vol 77, Issue 1
**************************************
literary fiction 		 	   		  
_______________________________________________
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http://www.nfb-writers-division.org 
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>

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