[stylist] Canes and dogs
PAUL BAVER
pebaver at verizon.net
Wed May 11 17:41:52 UTC 2011
Hi Judith you could not have said it more eloquently, I wish that more
people would also see that you have a excellent point, Paul E Baver
----- Original Message -----
From: "Judith Bron" <jbron at optonline.net>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: [stylist] Canes and dogs
> Hi, As a former dog owner I know that there are always situations where a
> dog is not welcome. If you are going to a party or to visit a friend it's
> appropriate to ask if they would mind if you brought your guide dog. If
> you are going to a public place like a restaurant or theater let your mind
> guide you based on experience. If the Maitredee says that dogs are not
> welcome in a restaurant apologize for bringing him this time, but promise
> not to bring him again. If you are going to the theater or a concert ask
> friends if your dog might get in the way of others at the event. If yes
> then let your dog take care of his bodily functions, leave him plenty of
> water, make sure the heat is on in the winter and the air conditioner in
> the summer and wait for your ride. For those of you who think I'm not
> sensitive to guide dog users, let me present an analogy.
> Babies are not always welcome in certain situations. If you want to go to
> a movie taking a baby isn't fair to other theater goers. Babys cry. The
> same goes for the theater and concerts. If you are going to a gathering
> of adults or a party at a friend's often bringing a baby is inappropriate.
> There is no question that you love your baby and it hurts to be apart from
> him or her, but you have the freedom to say no to an invitation that would
> require you to leave your child with a sitter. Judith
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:41 AM
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Canes and dogs
>
>
>> Marion,
>>
>> I have seen your handling of other situations and correspondence so I
>> know you are a fair-minded individual, so please understand that is not
>> the question
>> in my mind. My experience with you is what caused me to be a little
>> surprised at the strength of your response. However, I also see that the
>> sentence you
>> quote below is at the very least one that can be interpreted in several
>> ways, and that it isn't written in a way that stimulates fair discussion.
>> I won't spend
>> time defending his choice of words because the choice was a poor one, I
>> just saw what he said as a poor way of asking a question rather than an
>> expression of intollerance. In addition, I have followed discussions on
>> other lists about when it might be best to leave a dog at home and why it
>> might not be
>> a good idea to do that, so I suppose that the question didn't seem that
>> out of line even though I would not have chosen to ask it in that way or
>> regarding a
>> situation of that nature. Anyway, that's probably enough said, at least
>> by me, and it is probably off topic here anyway except for the obvious
>> issue of how
>> words can be interpreted.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Steve Jacobson
>>
>> On Tue, 10 May 2011 14:43:33 -0400, Marion Gwizdala wrote:
>>
>>>Steve,
>>> I feel the tone of Mr. Hendel's comments about taking a guide dog to
>>> a
>>>restaurant was set by the sentence, "I have sometimes not understood why
>>>my
>>>dog using friends drag their dog along." He then goes on to describe a
>>>visit
>>>to a restaurant in which he asserts a blind person does no independent
>>>travel. I admit my comments were extrapolations questioning whether or
>>>not
>>>Mr. Hendel uses a cane under such circumstances. It could be argued that,
>>>if
>>>a blind person is not doing any independent traveling and, therefore, has
>>>no
>>>need for a guide dog, that one would not have a need for a cane either.
>>>After all, the question could very well be, "What need has a blind person
>>>for a cane, since there is no independent travel?"
>>> I would also like to categorically state that I do not believe that a
>>>guide dog or a cane is the best told for independent travel, just as I
>>>would
>>>not assert that a hammer, screwdriver, plumb, level, saw, or any other
>>>tool
>>>of the carpentry trade is better. It depends upon the job for which the
>>>tool
>>>will be used. I have used a hammer on a screw and a screwdriver on a
>>>nail;
>>>however, the proper tool for the needed application would have worked
>>>better
>>>if I had it at my disposal.
>>> Although I missed the article that triggered Mr. Hendel's comments,
>>> it
>>>seemed to loathe the use of the white cane. I am not a guide dog user
>>>with
>>>such loathing. In fact, as I mentioned in my rebuttal earlier, I am as
>>>proficient with my white cane as I am with my guide dog. Furthermore, I
>>>am a
>>>strong advocate for maintaining such proficiency in order to maintain
>>>independence in a variety of circumstances.
>>> For instance, as a professional musician I am frequently asked to
>>>perform at private parties at people's homes. I will not, under any
>>>circumstances, ask a customer if it is okay for me to bring my guide dog.
>>>I
>>>know full well that, if I should ask, I may not get an honest answer. All
>>>too many people might feel as if it were disrespectful to say, "No!" to
>>>such
>>>a request, even though that is their desire. those who know me well
>>>enough
>>>to know that I am a guide dog user will let me know that it is alright;
>>>however, if they do not, I will not inquire. The same is true when I am
>>>invited to someone's home for other reasons. I am not one who asserts,
>>>"If
>>>they don't want my dog, they don't want me!" I think such assertions are
>>>ludicrous!In such circumstances, I need to be independent and that means
>>>using my cane.
>>> There are many other reasons I will opt for my white cane rather than
>>> my
>>>guide dog. I live in Florida and when the weather is nice, it is very
>>>nice.
>>>When it is not, though, it can be awful! I might need to go out when it
>>>is
>>>raining, but a wet dog is not pleasant, so I will leave him home and take
>>>my
>>>cane. I also enjoy concerts and many venues do not have adequate room for
>>>a
>>>100-pound dog, not to mention that many concert-goers tend to like to
>>>imbibe
>>>for the experience. Such a large, intoxicated crowd isn't the best for my
>>>dog! Then there are those times - like those of us who are parents know -
>>>that we just don't want the hassle of dealing with kids or dogs!
>>> There is so much more I could say on the subject line, but suffice it
>>> to
>>>say that I am not an absolutistic thinker when it comes to the subject.
>>>As
>>>my response to maid Ziegler said, I have had a dog in my life since I was
>>>four years old. I like dogs. I even have a dog for my dog! (grin) If I'm
>>>going to have a dog, why not have a guide dog? On the other hand, I have
>>>blind friends who do not like dogs and, therefore, would not consider a
>>>guide dog. I don't understand why people don't like dog, but I don't
>>>think
>>>they are bad people because they don't! I like beer; my wife likes rum!
>>>Well, I like rum, too, but know my wife won't drink my beer! It's all a
>>>matter of choice and preference!
>>> I am open to discussing more about the issue of guide dogs and white
>>>canes. I will never proclaim one is better than the other, though, so it
>>>will never be "guide dog vs. cane"! Now, let's have a beer....or some
>>>rum!
>>
>>>Fraternally yours,
>>>Marion Gwizdala
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
>>>To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>>Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 10:44 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [stylist] Canes and dogs
>>
>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> This subject has always been one that has interested me. As a cane
>>>> user
>>>> who has tried to be careful to defend the
>>>> rights of persons using canes or dogs, I have always been one who has
>>>> tried to understand both methods. What I
>>>> have found in general, though, that no serious discussion of the
>>>> differences, the strengths and weaknesses of each,
>>>> the attributes of what might make one method work for some and the
>>>> other
>>>> for others, can ever occur without things
>>>> breaking down. I did not see everything that was written in the
>>>> magazine
>>>> but have only seen what was written here
>>>> so perhaps I have missed something. However, I didn't see anything
>>>> written that said that a dog should not be taken
>>>> to a restaurant, only an interest in understanding why it might be done
>>>> in
>>>> the particular situation described. I did not
>>>> see him say that sighted guide need to be used, I interpreted him to be
>>>> assuming that a cane would be used because
>>>> it is my understanding that persons who use dogs generally know how to
>>>> use
>>>> a cane as well. What I saw in his writing
>>>> was a guy who was clearly a cane user but who wondered. I thought he
>>>> was
>>>> simply saying that each was a tool and
>>>> why wouldn't one just use whatever tool fit in the same way that those
>>>> of
>>>> us prefer to use straight canes might switch
>>>> to a telescopic cane in some cases. From my perspective, I do
>>>> understand
>>>> that people and dogs work as a team and
>>>> that there are always risks when the team is not working together, and
>>>> that may be the best answer that one might
>>>> give him along with some of the others that were given here. I can
>>>> think
>>>> of a few more answers that I might have
>>>> given such as what if my plans changed. What if after a nice dinner I
>>>> decided to walk home instead of taking a cab,
>>>> or if I was on a date, what if the opportunity arose to not return
>>>> directly home. There are simply a lot of responses and
>>>> areas to explore without assuming that the question was raised as a
>>>> die-hard intollerant cane user. There are some of
>>>> those who use canes, and there are even some who use dogs.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Steve Jacobson
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 09 May 2011 15:56:35 -0500, Brad Dunse' wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>You know I saw a Chevy in the ditch the other day, they can't even
>>>>>>stay on the road... people just can't drive right when they drive a
>>>>>>Chevy. Always bumping into things and stuff. Now I know if they had
>>>>>>a Toyota... well, that just wouldn't have happened at all. I mean I
>>>>>>drive a Toyota and never have issues running off the road or bumping
>>>>>>into stuff. Driver's are going to get a bad reputation for
>>>>>>running off roads. I've told them time and time again I'm right
>>>>>>about this but they don't listen. We ought eliminate Chevy's before
>>>>>>pedestrians get the wrong idea about people behind the wheel.
>>>>>Plagerized word exchange below...
>>>>
>>>>>In response to Feature Writer Alena Roberts - Deciding When to Take
>>>>>Your
>>>>>flip flops With You
>>>>>I would like to express my opinion on the question posed by Alena
>>>>>Roberts;
>>>>>namely, when to take and when not to take your flip flops. I come at
>>>>>this
>>>>>from a point of view which Alena may not have expected--I am a blind
>>>>>person
>>>>>who has always used sneakers and does not want flip flops. I have
>>>>>sometimes
>>>>>not understood why my flip flop using friends drag their flip flops
>>>>>along. Here is a
>>>>>scenario which is difficult for me to understand.
>>>>>You are taking a cab to a restaurant, maybe by yourself, maybe to meet
>>>>>a
>>>>>friend. You will then take a cab home.
>>>>>1. You go from the door of your house to the cab.
>>>>>2. You go from the cab to the door of the restaurant, where the host or
>>>>>a
>>>>>waiter/waitress helps you find a table.
>>>>>3. You repeat the process in reverse, restaurant to cab, cab to home.
>>>>>You are not really doing any independent travel. Why, then, do you need
>>>>>your
>>>>>flip flops? It seems to me that it's a lot of trouble and hassle to
>>>>>take flip flops on
>>>>>such an occasion, not to mention that the flip flops may be in the way
>>>>>at
>>>>>the
>>>>>table, or in the cab. Why not use your sneakers?
>>>>>I don't even understand why Ms. Roberts says she "dislikes using
>>>>>sneakers. Sneakers are merely a tool, like a hammer or screw driver.
>>>>>I use it when I need
>>>>>it, and I'm glad to have it. I can't even imagine wanting flip flops.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Brad Dunse
>>>>
>>>>>Inspiration is sweating over the pen...
>>>>> then smiling at what was written. --Anonymous
>>>>
>>>>>http://www.braddunsemusic.com
>>>>
>>>>>http://www.facebook.com/braddunse
>>>>
>>>>>http://www.twitter.com/braddunse
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>Writers Division web site:
>>>>>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>>>>><http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>>>
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>>>>>stylist at nfbnet.org
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Writers Division web site:
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>>
>>>_______________________________________________
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>>><http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
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>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
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