[stylist] Canes and dogs
Judith Bron
jbron at optonline.net
Wed May 11 18:06:00 UTC 2011
Thanks, Paul. JB
----- Original Message -----
From: "PAUL BAVER" <pebaver at verizon.net>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: [stylist] Canes and dogs
> Hi Judith you could not have said it more eloquently, I wish that more
> people would also see that you have a excellent point, Paul E Baver
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Judith Bron" <jbron at optonline.net>
> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Canes and dogs
>
>
>> Hi, As a former dog owner I know that there are always situations where a
>> dog is not welcome. If you are going to a party or to visit a friend
>> it's appropriate to ask if they would mind if you brought your guide dog.
>> If you are going to a public place like a restaurant or theater let your
>> mind guide you based on experience. If the Maitredee says that dogs are
>> not welcome in a restaurant apologize for bringing him this time, but
>> promise not to bring him again. If you are going to the theater or a
>> concert ask friends if your dog might get in the way of others at the
>> event. If yes then let your dog take care of his bodily functions, leave
>> him plenty of water, make sure the heat is on in the winter and the air
>> conditioner in the summer and wait for your ride. For those of you who
>> think I'm not sensitive to guide dog users, let me present an analogy.
>> Babies are not always welcome in certain situations. If you want to go
>> to a movie taking a baby isn't fair to other theater goers. Babys cry.
>> The same goes for the theater and concerts. If you are going to a
>> gathering of adults or a party at a friend's often bringing a baby is
>> inappropriate. There is no question that you love your baby and it hurts
>> to be apart from him or her, but you have the freedom to say no to an
>> invitation that would require you to leave your child with a sitter.
>> Judith
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:41 AM
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Canes and dogs
>>
>>
>>> Marion,
>>>
>>> I have seen your handling of other situations and correspondence so I
>>> know you are a fair-minded individual, so please understand that is not
>>> the question
>>> in my mind. My experience with you is what caused me to be a little
>>> surprised at the strength of your response. However, I also see that
>>> the sentence you
>>> quote below is at the very least one that can be interpreted in several
>>> ways, and that it isn't written in a way that stimulates fair
>>> discussion. I won't spend
>>> time defending his choice of words because the choice was a poor one, I
>>> just saw what he said as a poor way of asking a question rather than an
>>> expression of intollerance. In addition, I have followed discussions on
>>> other lists about when it might be best to leave a dog at home and why
>>> it might not be
>>> a good idea to do that, so I suppose that the question didn't seem that
>>> out of line even though I would not have chosen to ask it in that way or
>>> regarding a
>>> situation of that nature. Anyway, that's probably enough said, at least
>>> by me, and it is probably off topic here anyway except for the obvious
>>> issue of how
>>> words can be interpreted.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Steve Jacobson
>>>
>>> On Tue, 10 May 2011 14:43:33 -0400, Marion Gwizdala wrote:
>>>
>>>>Steve,
>>>> I feel the tone of Mr. Hendel's comments about taking a guide dog to
>>>> a
>>>>restaurant was set by the sentence, "I have sometimes not understood why
>>>>my
>>>>dog using friends drag their dog along." He then goes on to describe a
>>>>visit
>>>>to a restaurant in which he asserts a blind person does no independent
>>>>travel. I admit my comments were extrapolations questioning whether or
>>>>not
>>>>Mr. Hendel uses a cane under such circumstances. It could be argued
>>>>that, if
>>>>a blind person is not doing any independent traveling and, therefore,
>>>>has no
>>>>need for a guide dog, that one would not have a need for a cane either.
>>>>After all, the question could very well be, "What need has a blind
>>>>person
>>>>for a cane, since there is no independent travel?"
>>>> I would also like to categorically state that I do not believe that
>>>> a
>>>>guide dog or a cane is the best told for independent travel, just as I
>>>>would
>>>>not assert that a hammer, screwdriver, plumb, level, saw, or any other
>>>>tool
>>>>of the carpentry trade is better. It depends upon the job for which the
>>>>tool
>>>>will be used. I have used a hammer on a screw and a screwdriver on a
>>>>nail;
>>>>however, the proper tool for the needed application would have worked
>>>>better
>>>>if I had it at my disposal.
>>>> Although I missed the article that triggered Mr. Hendel's comments,
>>>> it
>>>>seemed to loathe the use of the white cane. I am not a guide dog user
>>>>with
>>>>such loathing. In fact, as I mentioned in my rebuttal earlier, I am as
>>>>proficient with my white cane as I am with my guide dog. Furthermore, I
>>>>am a
>>>>strong advocate for maintaining such proficiency in order to maintain
>>>>independence in a variety of circumstances.
>>>> For instance, as a professional musician I am frequently asked to
>>>>perform at private parties at people's homes. I will not, under any
>>>>circumstances, ask a customer if it is okay for me to bring my guide
>>>>dog. I
>>>>know full well that, if I should ask, I may not get an honest answer.
>>>>All
>>>>too many people might feel as if it were disrespectful to say, "No!" to
>>>>such
>>>>a request, even though that is their desire. those who know me well
>>>>enough
>>>>to know that I am a guide dog user will let me know that it is alright;
>>>>however, if they do not, I will not inquire. The same is true when I am
>>>>invited to someone's home for other reasons. I am not one who asserts,
>>>>"If
>>>>they don't want my dog, they don't want me!" I think such assertions are
>>>>ludicrous!In such circumstances, I need to be independent and that means
>>>>using my cane.
>>>> There are many other reasons I will opt for my white cane rather
>>>> than my
>>>>guide dog. I live in Florida and when the weather is nice, it is very
>>>>nice.
>>>>When it is not, though, it can be awful! I might need to go out when it
>>>>is
>>>>raining, but a wet dog is not pleasant, so I will leave him home and
>>>>take my
>>>>cane. I also enjoy concerts and many venues do not have adequate room
>>>>for a
>>>>100-pound dog, not to mention that many concert-goers tend to like to
>>>>imbibe
>>>>for the experience. Such a large, intoxicated crowd isn't the best for
>>>>my
>>>>dog! Then there are those times - like those of us who are parents
>>>>know -
>>>>that we just don't want the hassle of dealing with kids or dogs!
>>>> There is so much more I could say on the subject line, but suffice
>>>> it to
>>>>say that I am not an absolutistic thinker when it comes to the subject.
>>>>As
>>>>my response to maid Ziegler said, I have had a dog in my life since I
>>>>was
>>>>four years old. I like dogs. I even have a dog for my dog! (grin) If I'm
>>>>going to have a dog, why not have a guide dog? On the other hand, I have
>>>>blind friends who do not like dogs and, therefore, would not consider a
>>>>guide dog. I don't understand why people don't like dog, but I don't
>>>>think
>>>>they are bad people because they don't! I like beer; my wife likes rum!
>>>>Well, I like rum, too, but know my wife won't drink my beer! It's all a
>>>>matter of choice and preference!
>>>> I am open to discussing more about the issue of guide dogs and white
>>>>canes. I will never proclaim one is better than the other, though, so it
>>>>will never be "guide dog vs. cane"! Now, let's have a beer....or some
>>>>rum!
>>>
>>>>Fraternally yours,
>>>>Marion Gwizdala
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
>>>>To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>>>Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 10:44 PM
>>>>Subject: Re: [stylist] Canes and dogs
>>>
>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> This subject has always been one that has interested me. As a cane
>>>>> user
>>>>> who has tried to be careful to defend the
>>>>> rights of persons using canes or dogs, I have always been one who has
>>>>> tried to understand both methods. What I
>>>>> have found in general, though, that no serious discussion of the
>>>>> differences, the strengths and weaknesses of each,
>>>>> the attributes of what might make one method work for some and the
>>>>> other
>>>>> for others, can ever occur without things
>>>>> breaking down. I did not see everything that was written in the
>>>>> magazine
>>>>> but have only seen what was written here
>>>>> so perhaps I have missed something. However, I didn't see anything
>>>>> written that said that a dog should not be taken
>>>>> to a restaurant, only an interest in understanding why it might be
>>>>> done in
>>>>> the particular situation described. I did not
>>>>> see him say that sighted guide need to be used, I interpreted him to
>>>>> be
>>>>> assuming that a cane would be used because
>>>>> it is my understanding that persons who use dogs generally know how to
>>>>> use
>>>>> a cane as well. What I saw in his writing
>>>>> was a guy who was clearly a cane user but who wondered. I thought he
>>>>> was
>>>>> simply saying that each was a tool and
>>>>> why wouldn't one just use whatever tool fit in the same way that those
>>>>> of
>>>>> us prefer to use straight canes might switch
>>>>> to a telescopic cane in some cases. From my perspective, I do
>>>>> understand
>>>>> that people and dogs work as a team and
>>>>> that there are always risks when the team is not working together, and
>>>>> that may be the best answer that one might
>>>>> give him along with some of the others that were given here. I can
>>>>> think
>>>>> of a few more answers that I might have
>>>>> given such as what if my plans changed. What if after a nice dinner I
>>>>> decided to walk home instead of taking a cab,
>>>>> or if I was on a date, what if the opportunity arose to not return
>>>>> directly home. There are simply a lot of responses and
>>>>> areas to explore without assuming that the question was raised as a
>>>>> die-hard intollerant cane user. There are some of
>>>>> those who use canes, and there are even some who use dogs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Steve Jacobson
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 09 May 2011 15:56:35 -0500, Brad Dunse' wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>You know I saw a Chevy in the ditch the other day, they can't even
>>>>>>>stay on the road... people just can't drive right when they drive a
>>>>>>>Chevy. Always bumping into things and stuff. Now I know if they had
>>>>>>>a Toyota... well, that just wouldn't have happened at all. I mean I
>>>>>>>drive a Toyota and never have issues running off the road or bumping
>>>>>>>into stuff. Driver's are going to get a bad reputation for
>>>>>>>running off roads. I've told them time and time again I'm right
>>>>>>>about this but they don't listen. We ought eliminate Chevy's before
>>>>>>>pedestrians get the wrong idea about people behind the wheel.
>>>>>>Plagerized word exchange below...
>>>>>
>>>>>>In response to Feature Writer Alena Roberts - Deciding When to Take
>>>>>>Your
>>>>>>flip flops With You
>>>>>>I would like to express my opinion on the question posed by Alena
>>>>>>Roberts;
>>>>>>namely, when to take and when not to take your flip flops. I come at
>>>>>>this
>>>>>>from a point of view which Alena may not have expected--I am a blind
>>>>>>person
>>>>>>who has always used sneakers and does not want flip flops. I have
>>>>>>sometimes
>>>>>>not understood why my flip flop using friends drag their flip flops
>>>>>>along. Here is a
>>>>>>scenario which is difficult for me to understand.
>>>>>>You are taking a cab to a restaurant, maybe by yourself, maybe to meet
>>>>>>a
>>>>>>friend. You will then take a cab home.
>>>>>>1. You go from the door of your house to the cab.
>>>>>>2. You go from the cab to the door of the restaurant, where the host
>>>>>>or a
>>>>>>waiter/waitress helps you find a table.
>>>>>>3. You repeat the process in reverse, restaurant to cab, cab to home.
>>>>>>You are not really doing any independent travel. Why, then, do you
>>>>>>need
>>>>>>your
>>>>>>flip flops? It seems to me that it's a lot of trouble and hassle to
>>>>>>take flip flops on
>>>>>>such an occasion, not to mention that the flip flops may be in the way
>>>>>>at
>>>>>>the
>>>>>>table, or in the cab. Why not use your sneakers?
>>>>>>I don't even understand why Ms. Roberts says she "dislikes using
>>>>>>sneakers. Sneakers are merely a tool, like a hammer or screw driver.
>>>>>>I use it when I need
>>>>>>it, and I'm glad to have it. I can't even imagine wanting flip flops.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Brad Dunse
>>>>>
>>>>>>Inspiration is sweating over the pen...
>>>>>> then smiling at what was written. --Anonymous
>>>>>
>>>>>>http://www.braddunsemusic.com
>>>>>
>>>>>>http://www.facebook.com/braddunse
>>>>>
>>>>>>http://www.twitter.com/braddunse
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>Writers Division web site:
>>>>>>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>>>>>><http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Writers Division web site:
>>>>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>>>>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>>>>
>>>>> stylist mailing list
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>>>
>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>><http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
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>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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>
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