[stylist] Canes and dogs
Marion Gwizdala
marion.gwizdala at verizon.net
Thu May 12 12:53:55 UTC 2011
Judith,
My point in making the analogy of your Judaism is to bring this issue
into terms more people can understand. Let me offer a true story.
I was leaving my wife's house when we were dating and called for a cab.
When I got into the cab with my guide dog, the cab driver told me he would
not transport me because he didn't allow dogs in his cab. We sat in Merry's
driveway for a half hour as I attempted to convince the driver that all
would be okay and that there was a law that required him to transport me.
After the half hour, frustrated with his unwillingness to carry me, I called
the sheriff's office and spoke with the dispatcher who, interestingly
enough, claimed there was no such law. I gave him the statute number and
began quoting the law verbatim, including the penalty clause. (Florida's law
is a criminal statute.) The driver, realizing he might be in serious
trouble, decided to take me home.
When I arrived home, I again contacted the sheriff's office and asked
that a deputy come to my home so I could file a report. Again, I was told
that no law had been broken that was under the jurisdiction of the sheriff's
office. I again cited and quoted the law to no avail. I finally asked the
person to have a sergeant contact me.
when the sergeant called he stated that, although he was aware of the
law, he didn't feel it had been broken because, after all, the driver did
finally transport me. Here is the actual conversation that ensued.
"Sir, with all due respect, are you African American?"
Yes, but what bearing has that?"
"If you entered a cab and the driver asserted that he would not carry an
African American and it took you a half hour and threats of filing criminal
charges against him before he would transport you, would you say you were
discriminated against?"
"I will be right over to take your complaint!"
The case went to court, the driver's attorney asserted that he did not
violate the law since he did eventually transport me. the driver was found
guilty of vilating Florida's anti discrimination laws, was fined $500, and
ordered to serve 20 hours of community service.
The point of all of this is to say that we are more conscious of how
discrimination based upon race, ethnicity, or religion occurs than that of
disability. If we question the behavior by substituting one of these other
characteristics and believe it would be discriminatory, we are better able
to assess those actions as they pertain to us as disabled individuals.
Many blind people will assert, "If they don't want me at that place, why
should I go?" If blacks were to have said the same thing as it pertains to
Woolworth's or the Freedom Riders as it pertains to buses and terminals,
where would civil rights be today. BTW, May 16 at 9:00 pm on PBS will be a
documentary on the Freedom Riders. I believe every blind person should watch
this program, as it is also part of our heritage! Discrimination, no matter
what the reason, is offensive and founded in ignorance. As leaders in the
Federation - and as grass roots members - we must be committed to removing
the ignorance by every means possible! This includes education, when
appropriate, and litigation when necessary. One of my adages is, "It is
better to educate than to litigate! I will educate when I can and litigate
when I must!"
Fraternally yours,
Marion
----- Original Message -----
From: "Judith Bron" <jbron at optonline.net>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 5:20 PM
Subject: Re: [stylist] Canes and dogs
> Where did my Jewish identity come in? If a restaurant or anything else
> doesn't allow Jews based on their religion chances are pretty good they've
> already been reported to authorities. Many years ago in Florida my in
> laws were vacationing. My late mother in law had darker skin, resembling
> an Italian or Middle Eastern complexion. She and my late father in law
> had reservations in a hotel. When they walked in the person at the desk
> told them that my mother in law could not stay. They didn't allow people
> described with the N word to be guests in their hotel. My father in law
> toldd them he couldn't stay either. There's a big difference between a
> dog and a Jew with a darker complexion or a Jew who looks as white as an
> Aryian. Today all public establishments are mandated to allow guide dogs
> into their establishment. However the person using the guide dog has to
> make their own determination as to weather or not they want to take their
> animal there.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <marion.gwizdala at verizon.net>
> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 5:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Canes and dogs
>
>
>> Judith,
>> I would like to respectfully disagree with some of your message. How
>> one handles an issue of going to someone's home is up to them. My feeling
>> is that, if I am invited to someone's home who knows me, that person
>> knows I have a guide dog. If they advise me that they are amenable to the
>> presence of my dog, I will make the choice based upon this fact. If,
>> however, they say nothing, I will not ask and will not bring my dog. I
>> believe that doing so puts someone on the spot and they may agree to let
>> me bring my dog in spite of their wishes that I not do so for fear that
>> they may be seen as rude. Again, this is my approach and, by no means, do
>> I believe this is the only way to handle it. It is my way. I am not one
>> who believes, as I have stated previously, that if you do not accept my
>> dog you don't accept me!
>> As to the issue of a public accommodation telling me I am not welcome
>> with my dog, I will offer no apology. It is a violation of both state
>> and federal law to discriminate against a disabled individual accompanied
>> by a service dog unless the dog poses a direct threat to the health or
>> safety of others that cannot be eliminated by a reasonable modification
>> of policies, practices, and procedures or if my dog is out of control and
>> I do not take immediate action to correct the behavior. Period. End of
>> Story! On this issue I am as intolerant as I hope you would be if a
>> restaurant told you they did not allow Jews! I would attempt to educate
>> them, but if they persisted in their discrimination, they would find
>> themselves under arrest! In Florida, as is true in 33 other states,
>> discrimination based upon disability is a criminal offense!
>>
>> Fraternally yours,
>> Marion Gwizdala
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Judith Bron" <jbron at optonline.net>
>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:07 PM
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Canes and dogs
>>
>>
>>> Hi, As a former dog owner I know that there are always situations where
>>> a dog is not welcome. If you are going to a party or to visit a friend
>>> it's appropriate to ask if they would mind if you brought your guide
>>> dog. If you are going to a public place like a restaurant or theater let
>>> your mind guide you based on experience. If the Maitredee says that
>>> dogs are not welcome in a restaurant apologize for bringing him this
>>> time, but promise not to bring him again. If you are going to the
>>> theater or a concert ask friends if your dog might get in the way of
>>> others at the event. If yes then let your dog take care of his bodily
>>> functions, leave him plenty of water, make sure the heat is on in the
>>> winter and the air conditioner in the summer and wait for your ride.
>>> For those of you who think I'm not sensitive to guide dog users, let me
>>> present an analogy.
>>> Babies are not always welcome in certain situations. If you want to go
>>> to a movie taking a baby isn't fair to other theater goers. Babys cry.
>>> The same goes for the theater and concerts. If you are going to a
>>> gathering of adults or a party at a friend's often bringing a baby is
>>> inappropriate. There is no question that you love your baby and it hurts
>>> to be apart from him or her, but you have the freedom to say no to an
>>> invitation that would require you to leave your child with a sitter.
>>> Judith
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:41 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Canes and dogs
>>>
>>>
>>>> Marion,
>>>>
>>>> I have seen your handling of other situations and correspondence so I
>>>> know you are a fair-minded individual, so please understand that is not
>>>> the question
>>>> in my mind. My experience with you is what caused me to be a little
>>>> surprised at the strength of your response. However, I also see that
>>>> the sentence you
>>>> quote below is at the very least one that can be interpreted in several
>>>> ways, and that it isn't written in a way that stimulates fair
>>>> discussion. I won't spend
>>>> time defending his choice of words because the choice was a poor one, I
>>>> just saw what he said as a poor way of asking a question rather than an
>>>> expression of intollerance. In addition, I have followed discussions
>>>> on other lists about when it might be best to leave a dog at home and
>>>> why it might not be
>>>> a good idea to do that, so I suppose that the question didn't seem that
>>>> out of line even though I would not have chosen to ask it in that way
>>>> or regarding a
>>>> situation of that nature. Anyway, that's probably enough said, at
>>>> least by me, and it is probably off topic here anyway except for the
>>>> obvious issue of how
>>>> words can be interpreted.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Steve Jacobson
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, 10 May 2011 14:43:33 -0400, Marion Gwizdala wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Steve,
>>>>> I feel the tone of Mr. Hendel's comments about taking a guide dog
>>>>> to a
>>>>>restaurant was set by the sentence, "I have sometimes not understood
>>>>>why my
>>>>>dog using friends drag their dog along." He then goes on to describe a
>>>>>visit
>>>>>to a restaurant in which he asserts a blind person does no independent
>>>>>travel. I admit my comments were extrapolations questioning whether or
>>>>>not
>>>>>Mr. Hendel uses a cane under such circumstances. It could be argued
>>>>>that, if
>>>>>a blind person is not doing any independent traveling and, therefore,
>>>>>has no
>>>>>need for a guide dog, that one would not have a need for a cane either.
>>>>>After all, the question could very well be, "What need has a blind
>>>>>person
>>>>>for a cane, since there is no independent travel?"
>>>>> I would also like to categorically state that I do not believe that
>>>>> a
>>>>>guide dog or a cane is the best told for independent travel, just as I
>>>>>would
>>>>>not assert that a hammer, screwdriver, plumb, level, saw, or any other
>>>>>tool
>>>>>of the carpentry trade is better. It depends upon the job for which the
>>>>>tool
>>>>>will be used. I have used a hammer on a screw and a screwdriver on a
>>>>>nail;
>>>>>however, the proper tool for the needed application would have worked
>>>>>better
>>>>>if I had it at my disposal.
>>>>> Although I missed the article that triggered Mr. Hendel's comments,
>>>>> it
>>>>>seemed to loathe the use of the white cane. I am not a guide dog user
>>>>>with
>>>>>such loathing. In fact, as I mentioned in my rebuttal earlier, I am as
>>>>>proficient with my white cane as I am with my guide dog. Furthermore, I
>>>>>am a
>>>>>strong advocate for maintaining such proficiency in order to maintain
>>>>>independence in a variety of circumstances.
>>>>> For instance, as a professional musician I am frequently asked to
>>>>>perform at private parties at people's homes. I will not, under any
>>>>>circumstances, ask a customer if it is okay for me to bring my guide
>>>>>dog. I
>>>>>know full well that, if I should ask, I may not get an honest answer.
>>>>>All
>>>>>too many people might feel as if it were disrespectful to say, "No!" to
>>>>>such
>>>>>a request, even though that is their desire. those who know me well
>>>>>enough
>>>>>to know that I am a guide dog user will let me know that it is alright;
>>>>>however, if they do not, I will not inquire. The same is true when I am
>>>>>invited to someone's home for other reasons. I am not one who asserts,
>>>>>"If
>>>>>they don't want my dog, they don't want me!" I think such assertions
>>>>>are
>>>>>ludicrous!In such circumstances, I need to be independent and that
>>>>>means
>>>>>using my cane.
>>>>> There are many other reasons I will opt for my white cane rather
>>>>> than my
>>>>>guide dog. I live in Florida and when the weather is nice, it is very
>>>>>nice.
>>>>>When it is not, though, it can be awful! I might need to go out when it
>>>>>is
>>>>>raining, but a wet dog is not pleasant, so I will leave him home and
>>>>>take my
>>>>>cane. I also enjoy concerts and many venues do not have adequate room
>>>>>for a
>>>>>100-pound dog, not to mention that many concert-goers tend to like to
>>>>>imbibe
>>>>>for the experience. Such a large, intoxicated crowd isn't the best for
>>>>>my
>>>>>dog! Then there are those times - like those of us who are parents
>>>>>know -
>>>>>that we just don't want the hassle of dealing with kids or dogs!
>>>>> There is so much more I could say on the subject line, but suffice
>>>>> it to
>>>>>say that I am not an absolutistic thinker when it comes to the subject.
>>>>>As
>>>>>my response to maid Ziegler said, I have had a dog in my life since I
>>>>>was
>>>>>four years old. I like dogs. I even have a dog for my dog! (grin) If
>>>>>I'm
>>>>>going to have a dog, why not have a guide dog? On the other hand, I
>>>>>have
>>>>>blind friends who do not like dogs and, therefore, would not consider a
>>>>>guide dog. I don't understand why people don't like dog, but I don't
>>>>>think
>>>>>they are bad people because they don't! I like beer; my wife likes rum!
>>>>>Well, I like rum, too, but know my wife won't drink my beer! It's all a
>>>>>matter of choice and preference!
>>>>> I am open to discussing more about the issue of guide dogs and
>>>>> white
>>>>>canes. I will never proclaim one is better than the other, though, so
>>>>>it
>>>>>will never be "guide dog vs. cane"! Now, let's have a beer....or some
>>>>>rum!
>>>>
>>>>>Fraternally yours,
>>>>>Marion Gwizdala
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
>>>>>To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 10:44 PM
>>>>>Subject: Re: [stylist] Canes and dogs
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This subject has always been one that has interested me. As a cane
>>>>>> user
>>>>>> who has tried to be careful to defend the
>>>>>> rights of persons using canes or dogs, I have always been one who has
>>>>>> tried to understand both methods. What I
>>>>>> have found in general, though, that no serious discussion of the
>>>>>> differences, the strengths and weaknesses of each,
>>>>>> the attributes of what might make one method work for some and the
>>>>>> other
>>>>>> for others, can ever occur without things
>>>>>> breaking down. I did not see everything that was written in the
>>>>>> magazine
>>>>>> but have only seen what was written here
>>>>>> so perhaps I have missed something. However, I didn't see anything
>>>>>> written that said that a dog should not be taken
>>>>>> to a restaurant, only an interest in understanding why it might be
>>>>>> done in
>>>>>> the particular situation described. I did not
>>>>>> see him say that sighted guide need to be used, I interpreted him to
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> assuming that a cane would be used because
>>>>>> it is my understanding that persons who use dogs generally know how
>>>>>> to use
>>>>>> a cane as well. What I saw in his writing
>>>>>> was a guy who was clearly a cane user but who wondered. I thought he
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> simply saying that each was a tool and
>>>>>> why wouldn't one just use whatever tool fit in the same way that
>>>>>> those of
>>>>>> us prefer to use straight canes might switch
>>>>>> to a telescopic cane in some cases. From my perspective, I do
>>>>>> understand
>>>>>> that people and dogs work as a team and
>>>>>> that there are always risks when the team is not working together,
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> that may be the best answer that one might
>>>>>> give him along with some of the others that were given here. I can
>>>>>> think
>>>>>> of a few more answers that I might have
>>>>>> given such as what if my plans changed. What if after a nice dinner
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> decided to walk home instead of taking a cab,
>>>>>> or if I was on a date, what if the opportunity arose to not return
>>>>>> directly home. There are simply a lot of responses and
>>>>>> areas to explore without assuming that the question was raised as a
>>>>>> die-hard intollerant cane user. There are some of
>>>>>> those who use canes, and there are even some who use dogs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Steve Jacobson
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 09 May 2011 15:56:35 -0500, Brad Dunse' wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>You know I saw a Chevy in the ditch the other day, they can't even
>>>>>>>>stay on the road... people just can't drive right when they drive a
>>>>>>>>Chevy. Always bumping into things and stuff. Now I know if they had
>>>>>>>>a Toyota... well, that just wouldn't have happened at all. I mean I
>>>>>>>>drive a Toyota and never have issues running off the road or bumping
>>>>>>>>into stuff. Driver's are going to get a bad reputation for
>>>>>>>>running off roads. I've told them time and time again I'm right
>>>>>>>>about this but they don't listen. We ought eliminate Chevy's before
>>>>>>>>pedestrians get the wrong idea about people behind the wheel.
>>>>>>>Plagerized word exchange below...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>In response to Feature Writer Alena Roberts - Deciding When to Take
>>>>>>>Your
>>>>>>>flip flops With You
>>>>>>>I would like to express my opinion on the question posed by Alena
>>>>>>>Roberts;
>>>>>>>namely, when to take and when not to take your flip flops. I come at
>>>>>>>this
>>>>>>>from a point of view which Alena may not have expected--I am a blind
>>>>>>>person
>>>>>>>who has always used sneakers and does not want flip flops. I have
>>>>>>>sometimes
>>>>>>>not understood why my flip flop using friends drag their flip flops
>>>>>>>along. Here is a
>>>>>>>scenario which is difficult for me to understand.
>>>>>>>You are taking a cab to a restaurant, maybe by yourself, maybe to
>>>>>>>meet a
>>>>>>>friend. You will then take a cab home.
>>>>>>>1. You go from the door of your house to the cab.
>>>>>>>2. You go from the cab to the door of the restaurant, where the host
>>>>>>>or a
>>>>>>>waiter/waitress helps you find a table.
>>>>>>>3. You repeat the process in reverse, restaurant to cab, cab to home.
>>>>>>>You are not really doing any independent travel. Why, then, do you
>>>>>>>need
>>>>>>>your
>>>>>>>flip flops? It seems to me that it's a lot of trouble and hassle to
>>>>>>>take flip flops on
>>>>>>>such an occasion, not to mention that the flip flops may be in the
>>>>>>>way at
>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>table, or in the cab. Why not use your sneakers?
>>>>>>>I don't even understand why Ms. Roberts says she "dislikes using
>>>>>>>sneakers. Sneakers are merely a tool, like a hammer or screw driver.
>>>>>>>I use it when I need
>>>>>>>it, and I'm glad to have it. I can't even imagine wanting flip flops.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Brad Dunse
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Inspiration is sweating over the pen...
>>>>>>> then smiling at what was written. --Anonymous
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>http://www.braddunsemusic.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>http://www.facebook.com/braddunse
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>http://www.twitter.com/braddunse
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>Writers Division web site:
>>>>>>>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>>>>>>><http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Writers Division web site:
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>>>>>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>>><http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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