[stylist] Canes and dogs

Thu May 12 13:01:36 UTC 2011

Donna,
    Another point is that Mr. Hendel, as i have previously stated, has my 
email address. He asked me another question concerning guide dogs in 
restaurants. If he truly wanted to ask a question and receive an 
authoritative answer, why did he not contact me as he had in the past? This 
all leads me to believe he didn't really ask a question, but couched his 
aggression in rhetoric.

Fraternally yours,
Marion


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Donna Hill" <penatwork at epix.net>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 7:06 PM
Subject: Re: [stylist] Canes and dogs


> Hi Marion,
> I think Mr. H's tone is inflammatory, and it is difficult to envision how 
> it
> could be interpreted otherwise. If he wasn't venting and truly had 
> questions
> about why guide dog users do certain things, he might have phrased it like
> this:
>
> Block quote
> I am a white cane user with friends who use guide dogs. Sometimes, I don't
> understand what's going on, and I don't feel comfortable asking them
> directly. For instance, why do you need to take a guide dog into a
> restaurant? If you're not walking there, how is the dog helping? I'm not
> saying they shouldn't take their dogs, just confused about how they are
> being used.
> Block quote end
>
> Just a thought.
> Donna
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Marion Gwizdala
> Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 4:36 PM
> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Canes and dogs
>
> Steve,
>    Thank you for your message and explanation. In an effort to keep the
> thread on topic for this list, I would like to discuss how the words we
> choose set a tone that might be misinterpreted through the choice of 
> words.
> It is my opinion that I did not misinterpret Mr. Hendel's comments. Not 
> only
>
> did he begin by asserting that guide dog users "drag" their dogs to places
> he believes they should not, he goes on to assert that there is no need 
> for
> a dog in a particular circumstance due to the lack of independent travel. 
> I
> fail to understand how he can make an assertion that going to a restaurant
> does not involve independent travel, especially after he describes the
> assistance one might receive once arriving. Either one travels 
> independently
>
> or, in his words, someone "helps you find a table". It is true that some
> restaurants escort all of their patrons to a table, but escorting and
> "helping you find a table" are different to me. Again, to keep this 
> on-topic
>
> for this list, it is important to choose words that effectively 
> communicate
> our intended affect. I believe Mr. hendel either did very well at
> communicating an argumentative, intolerant attitude or completely missed 
> the
>
> mark!
>    I would also like to say that I am not one who talks (or writes) behind
> another's back. Therefore, when I wrote my message to Mr. Hammond, the
> Matilda Ziegler Editor, I copied Mr. Hendel, since he had contacted me on
> another NAGDU-related issue. Interestingly, it involved an acquaintance of
> his who uses a guide dog and an issue with a restaurant! As of this 
> writing,
>
> Mr. Hendel has not responded to advise me that I misunderstood his 
> message.
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion Gwizdala
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:41 AM
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Canes and dogs
>
>
>> Marion,
>>
>> I have seen your handling of other situations and correspondence so I 
>> know
>
>> you are a fair-minded individual, so please understand that is not the
>> question
>> in my mind.  My experience with you is what caused me to be a little
>> surprised at the strength of your response.  However, I also see that the
>> sentence you
>> quote below is at the very least one that can be interpreted in several
>> ways, and that it isn't written in a way that stimulates fair discussion.
>> I won't spend
>> time defending his choice of words because the choice was a poor one, I
>> just saw what he said as a poor way of asking a question rather than an
>> expression of intollerance.  In addition, I have followed discussions on
>> other lists about when it might be best to leave a dog at home and why it
>> might not be
>> a good idea to do that, so I suppose that the question didn't seem that
>> out of line even though I would not have chosen to ask it in that way or
>> regarding a
>> situation of that nature.  Anyway, that's probably enough said, at least
>> by me, and it is probably off topic here anyway except for the obvious
>> issue of how
>> words can be interpreted.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Steve Jacobson
>>
>> On Tue, 10 May 2011 14:43:33 -0400, Marion Gwizdala wrote:
>>
>>>Steve,
>>>    I feel the tone of Mr. Hendel's comments about taking a guide dog to 
>>> a
>>>restaurant was set by the sentence, "I have sometimes not understood why
>>>my
>>>dog using friends drag their dog along." He then goes on to describe a
>>>visit
>>>to a restaurant in which he asserts a blind person does no independent
>>>travel. I admit my comments were extrapolations questioning whether or 
>>>not
>>>Mr. Hendel uses a cane under such circumstances. It could be argued that,
>>>if
>>>a blind person is not doing any independent traveling and, therefore, has
>>>no
>>>need for a guide dog, that one would not have a need for a cane either.
>>>After all, the question could very well be, "What need has a blind person
>>>for a cane, since there is no independent travel?"
>>>    I would also like to categorically state that I do not believe that a
>>>guide dog or a cane is the best told for independent travel, just as I
>>>would
>>>not assert that a hammer, screwdriver, plumb, level, saw, or any other
>>>tool
>>>of the carpentry trade is better. It depends upon the job for which the
>>>tool
>>>will be used. I have used a hammer on a screw and a screwdriver on a 
>>>nail;
>>>however, the proper tool for the needed application would have worked
>>>better
>>>if I had it at my disposal.
>>>    Although I missed the article that triggered Mr. Hendel's comments, 
>>> it
>>>seemed to loathe the use of the white cane. I am not a guide dog user 
>>>with
>>>such loathing. In fact, as I mentioned in my rebuttal earlier, I am as
>>>proficient with my white cane as I am with my guide dog. Furthermore, I 
>>>am
>
>>>a
>>>strong advocate for maintaining such proficiency in order to maintain
>>>independence in a variety of circumstances.
>>>    For instance, as a professional musician I am frequently asked to
>>>perform at private parties at people's homes. I will not, under any
>>>circumstances, ask a customer if it is okay for me to bring my guide dog.
>>>I
>>>know full well that, if I should ask, I may not get an honest answer. All
>>>too many people might feel as if it were disrespectful to say, "No!" to
>>>such
>>>a request, even though that is their desire. those who know me well 
>>>enough
>>>to know that I am a guide dog user will let me know that it is alright;
>>>however, if they do not, I will not inquire. The same is true when I am
>>>invited to someone's home for other reasons. I am not one who asserts, 
>>>"If
>>>they don't want my dog, they don't want me!" I think such assertions are
>>>ludicrous!In such circumstances, I need to be independent and that means
>>>using my cane.
>>>    There are many other reasons I will opt for my white cane rather than
>>> my
>>>guide dog. I live in Florida and when the weather is nice, it is very
>>>nice.
>>>When it is not, though, it can be awful! I might need to go out when it 
>>>is
>>>raining, but a wet dog is not pleasant, so I will leave him home and take
>>>my
>>>cane. I also enjoy concerts and many venues do not have adequate room for
>>>a
>>>100-pound dog, not to mention that many concert-goers tend to like to
>>>imbibe
>>>for the experience. Such a large, intoxicated crowd isn't the best for my
>>>dog! Then there are those times - like those of us who are parents know -
>>>that we just don't want the hassle of dealing with kids or dogs!
>>>    There is so much more I could say on the subject line, but suffice it
>>> to
>>>say that I am not an absolutistic thinker when it comes to the subject. 
>>>As
>>>my response to maid Ziegler said, I have had a dog in my life since I was
>>>four years old. I like dogs. I even have a dog for my dog! (grin) If I'm
>>>going to have a dog, why not have a guide dog? On the other hand, I have
>>>blind friends who do not like dogs and, therefore, would not consider a
>>>guide dog. I don't understand why people don't like dog, but I don't 
>>>think
>>>they are bad people because they don't! I like beer; my wife likes rum!
>>>Well, I like rum, too, but know my wife won't drink my beer! It's all a
>>>matter of choice and preference!
>>>    I am open to discussing more about the issue of guide dogs and white
>>>canes. I will never proclaim one is better than the other, though, so it
>>>will never be "guide dog vs. cane"! Now, let's have a beer....or some 
>>>rum!
>>
>>>Fraternally yours,
>>>Marion Gwizdala
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>>From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
>>>To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>>Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 10:44 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [stylist] Canes and dogs
>>
>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> This subject has always been one that has interested me.  As a cane 
>>>> user
>>>> who has tried to be careful to defend the
>>>> rights of persons using canes or dogs, I have always been one who has
>>>> tried to understand both methods.  What I
>>>> have found in general, though, that no serious discussion of the
>>>> differences, the strengths and weaknesses of each,
>>>> the attributes of what might make one method work for some and the 
>>>> other
>>>> for others, can ever occur without things
>>>> breaking down.  I did not see everything that was written in the
>>>> magazine
>>>> but have only seen what was written here
>>>> so perhaps I have missed something.  However, I didn't see anything
>>>> written that said that a dog should not be taken
>>>> to a restaurant, only an interest in understanding why it might be done
>>>> in
>>>> the particular situation described.  I did not
>>>> see him say that sighted guide need to be used, I interpreted him to be
>>>> assuming that a cane would be used because
>>>> it is my understanding that persons who use dogs generally know how to
>>>> use
>>>> a cane as well.  What I saw in his writing
>>>> was a guy who was clearly a cane user but who wondered.  I thought he
>>>> was
>>>> simply saying that each was a tool and
>>>> why wouldn't one just use whatever tool fit in the same way that those
>>>> of
>>>> us prefer to use straight canes might switch
>>>> to a telescopic cane in some cases.  From my perspective, I do
>>>> understand
>>>> that people and dogs work as a team and
>>>> that there are always risks when the team is not working together, and
>>>> that may be the best answer that one might
>>>> give him along with some of the others that were given here.  I can
>>>> think
>>>> of a few more answers that I might have
>>>> given such as what if my plans changed.  What if after a nice dinner I
>>>> decided to walk home instead of taking a cab,
>>>> or if I was on a date, what if the opportunity arose to not return
>>>> directly home.  There are simply a lot of responses and
>>>> areas to explore without assuming that the question was raised as a
>>>> die-hard intollerant cane user.  There are some of
>>>> those who use canes, and there are even some who use dogs.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Steve Jacobson
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 09 May 2011 15:56:35 -0500, Brad Dunse' wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>You know I saw a Chevy in the ditch the other day, they can't even
>>>>>>stay on the road... people just can't drive right when they drive a
>>>>>>Chevy. Always bumping into things and stuff. Now I know if they had
>>>>>>a Toyota... well, that just wouldn't have happened at all. I mean I
>>>>>>drive a Toyota and never have issues running off the road or bumping
>>>>>>into stuff. Driver's are going to get a bad reputation for
>>>>>>running   off roads. I've told them time and time again  I'm right
>>>>>>about this but they don't listen. We ought eliminate Chevy's before
>>>>>>pedestrians get the wrong idea  about people behind the wheel.
>>>>>Plagerized word exchange below...
>>>>
>>>>>In response to Feature Writer Alena Roberts - Deciding When to Take 
>>>>>Your
>>>>>flip flops With You
>>>>>I would like to express my opinion on the question posed by Alena
>>>>>Roberts;
>>>>>namely, when to take and when not to take your flip flops. I come at
>>>>>this
>>>>>from a point of view which Alena may not have expected--I am a blind
>>>>>person
>>>>>who has always used sneakers and does not want flip flops. I have
>>>>>sometimes
>>>>>not understood why my flip flop using friends drag their flip flops
>>>>>along. Here is a
>>>>>scenario which is difficult for me to understand.
>>>>>You are taking a cab to a restaurant, maybe by yourself, maybe to meet 
>>>>>a
>>>>>friend. You will then take a cab home.
>>>>>1. You go from the door of your house to the cab.
>>>>>2. You go from the cab to the door of the restaurant, where the host or
>>>>>a
>>>>>waiter/waitress helps you find a table.
>>>>>3. You repeat the process in reverse, restaurant to cab, cab to home.
>>>>>You are not really doing any independent travel. Why, then, do you need
>>>>>your
>>>>>flip flops? It seems to me that it's a lot of trouble and hassle to
>>>>>take flip flops on
>>>>>such an occasion, not to mention that the flip flops may be in the way
>>>>>at
>>>>>the
>>>>>table, or in the cab. Why not use your sneakers?
>>>>>I don't even understand why Ms. Roberts says she "dislikes using
>>>>>sneakers. Sneakers are merely a tool, like a hammer or screw driver.
>>>>>I use it when I need
>>>>>it, and I'm glad to have it. I can't even imagine wanting flip flops.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Brad Dunse
>>>>
>>>>>Inspiration is sweating over the pen...
>>>>>  then smiling at  what was written. --Anonymous
>>>>
>>>>>http://www.braddunsemusic.com
>>>>
>>>>>http://www.facebook.com/braddunse
>>>>
>>>>>http://www.twitter.com/braddunse
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>Writers Division web site:
>>>>>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>>>>><http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>>>
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> 40visi.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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