[stylist] Writing from a blind perspective

[Brenda]

Brad
I got this book from BARD here in Ohio.
Brenda

On 10/10/2011 10:20 PM, Brad Dunse' wrote:
> Ashley
>
> I think I'm the guilty party who mentioned it more than once, mostly 
> because I just re-read it :). It is about an old fisherman  past his 
> prime fishing from a small skiff.  After a string of 84 days of no 
> luck, being the laughter of the young fishermen, concern of the older 
> fishermen, and worry of a beloved boy who he's mentored, he spends  
> two and a half days out on the ocean catching an 18 foot Marlin, the 
> biggest anyone has seen. Not being able to land it to the skiff he's 
> forced to strap it to the side and venture back to mainland with the 
> challenges of ocean predators, navigating by the tradewinds, hunger, 
> and continued lack of sleep ahead of him. What I like about this book 
> is the word economy, and the way he dialogs with himself, the fish,  
> and others, and the sentiment. It  isn't available on NLS BARD but 
> BookShare has it in Daisy text. Audible has it. It is a little over a 
> 2 our read on Audible with Donhal Sutherland reading :).
>
> Brad
>
>
>
>
>
> On 10/10/2011  08:46 PM Ashley Bramlett said...
>> hmm. That book was mentioned several times. I think I'll read it. 
>> What is Old man of the sea about?
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Brad Dunse'
>> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 5:51 PM
>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Writing from a blind perspective
>>
>> I didn't know that was French Bridgit? Been taking Rosetta Stone have
>> you? I also didn't know my dad was quite fluent in it  lol. I guess
>> it doesn't need to be italicized since, though French, we're all
>> familiar with it haha. I agree with your points. Anything can be over
>> done, and to a point where it discredits a character. Too much
>> imagery minus any other type of descriptions doesn't lead to a full
>> emotional grasp either. As mentioned Old Man of the Sea   didn't have
>> tons of visuals in it. It  mentioned the glow of Havanah, but it
>> didn't go over the top describing it. Same goes for the dolphins,
>> Flying Fish, or anything,but  we get it just fine and we're in the
>> skiff harpooninng sharks and tired from lack of sleep just as the
>> character. I can see how some could get hung up on "How's the blind
>> guy going to write visuals?" And once that is established it now
>> becomes a focal point at every critique where it isn't so for
>> critiques of other's work. If someone were to  say to me at a
>> songwriting meeting "Brad? Why is  I just noticed everytime you come
>> to the meeting with a song, when you sing it you close your eyes and
>> tap your feet off time to the the song. Why is that anyway? Do you
>> not have a sense of time?" I'd be like, "What? Umm I don't know."
>>
>> So what do you think people will do next time I walk in with a song
>> to be critiqued? The jig is up and the inquiring eyes want to know,
>> Is he going to tap off time like so and so said?
>>
>> If how someone writes, touches people and holds them, it doesn't
>> matter how they wrote it. Their job is being done. I don't mean not
>> to explore and learn new things, but if it works, it works.
>>
>> Brad
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/10/2011  04:15 PM Bridgit Pollpeter said...
>>> Chris and others,
>>>
>>> That's bullshit- pardon the French. Smile. That others would tell you
>>> your story has holes because of a lack of visual descriptions is just
>>> stupid, and much like in our real lives, people are only focusing on 
>>> the
>>> blindness and nothing else about a person, or in this case a character.
>>>
>>> Sensory descriptions are not just visual. As we know in real life,
>>> nonvisual means exist to do many, many things, yet so many question how
>>> anything can be done without sight. It's the same when providing 
>>> sensory
>>> descriptions in a story. It can be done, and done quite well, without
>>> actually giving visual details.
>>>
>>> In my classes, we were expected to provide details beyond visual 
>>> ones so
>>> readers had a full sensory experience. As a sighted writer, it will
>>> usually be natural to write more visual descriptions, but at least we
>>> were encouraged to seek new perspectives. In a poetry workshop, we had
>>> to write a poem about a piece of art but not to give any visual 
>>> details.
>>> At first, most of the class found it difficult, but the poems turned 
>>> out
>>> really good. It was quite the learning experience, even for me.
>>>
>>> To be honest, I rarely write blind characters- oddly enough, I find it
>>> difficult. Even though I'm totally blind, I was sighted before, which I
>>> know many of us were, but I still am extremely visual. I have visual
>>> memories now of things I can't "see," and though I can't say how
>>> accurate my memories are, nonetheless, the memories are there. So 
>>> when I
>>> write, it's natural to include visual details. However, I've been
>>> working on writing other sensory descriptions because I don't want to
>>> end up in a rut unable to rely on other descriptions beyond the visual.
>>>
>>> One way, Chris, you can try to provide more detail about how your
>>> character goes about something is to use descriptive language when they
>>> do something. For example, not that this will be a good one, but you
>>> could try something like, "The electronic voice droned from the 
>>> speakers
>>> as he paid bills online." Or, "The mailbox clanged as he tapped his 
>>> cane
>>> against it. Sliding the back of his hand along the top, he found the
>>> handle, opened the door and dropped his letter into the depths of the
>>> mailbox." Or, "Her sultry voice suggested a matching body. I moved
>>> closer picking up a hint of jasmine. Grabbing her hand, I weaved my
>>> fingers through her slender ones. She leaned against my chest, and I
>>> felt the weight of her breast as images scorched my mind."
>>>
>>> You don't necessarily have to describe exactly how things are done, or
>>> provide the inner workings of things, but add a few verbs and details
>>> that signify what the character is doing. And I don't think it has 
>>> to be
>>> written in first person to accomplish this. That's obviously a choice
>>> you make, but don't let others dictate that choice. I know we have 
>>> to be
>>> mindful of how readers perceive our plots and characters, but at some
>>> point we also have to stay true to what we believe are the right
>>> choices. To me, this sounds like a case of people focusing on one 
>>> aspect
>>> of a character, refusing to look deeper.
>>>
>>> Also, a story is about perspective. If a character is blind it 
>>> stands to
>>> reason that we will "see" the story from the perspective of a blind
>>> person. Actually, in an open, or omniscient perspective, you can pan 
>>> out
>>> providing descriptions even if characters can't see since it doesn't
>>> have to be the blind characters narrating, but if you limit the POV to
>>> that blind character, regardless of first or third person, you'd still
>>> want to remain in that nonvisual world. It's insane that anyone would
>>> suggest a story told from the POV of a blind character should have
>>> visual descriptions. Unless you have a omniscient POV, it makes sense
>>> the story would lack visuals, though have other sensory details to make
>>> up for it. A limited POV doesn't divulge certain information like what
>>> other characters think or do unless in the presence of the POV
>>> character, so if they're blind, the story would be in this perspective
>>> if told in a limited POV.
>>>
>>> During my first convention, while attending a Writers' Division 
>>> event, a
>>> young girl asked how to write visual descriptions. She was blind from
>>> birth, but was always told her stories were lacking because no visual
>>> details were present. This was just ludacris to me. Her perspective was
>>> different, and she should celebrate it. Certainly one can learn to 
>>> write
>>> visually, but as a writer, you also want to find a unique voice. If you
>>> can't describe something visually, why do it? Use what senses you have
>>> to paint a picture, or maybe, rather, record a song. Smile. Perspective
>>> is what creates a story full of depth. If your perspective is a
>>> nonvisual one, there is nothing wrong with that. We're always told how
>>> we're "lacking experiences," or slightly inferior because we can't see.
>>> I get sick of this. I certainly don't feel lacking in experiences or
>>> anything else. The same goes for our writing if we write from a
>>> nonvisual perspective. And just a side note, if you aren't providing
>>> enough, or good enough, sensory descriptions, you probably wouldn't 
>>> give
>>> great visual descriptions either. I just realized how this sounds- I'm
>>> not meaning you, Chris. Smile.
>>>
>>> You have to make any description germane to the story, which includes
>>> visual descriptions along with other sensory details. Just as it 
>>> doesn't
>>> make sense to constantly drop in how-to descriptions for every action a
>>> blind character takes, it also doesn't make sense to give visual 
>>> details
>>> that the character wouldn't see. It would go against the perspective of
>>> the story.
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Bridgit Kuenning-Pollpeter
>>> Read my blog at:
>>> http://blogs.livewellnebraska.com/author/bpollpeter/
>>>
>>> "History is not what happened; history is what was written down."
>>> The Expected One- Kathleen McGowan
>>>
>>> Message: 3
>>> Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 20:55:21 -0400
>>> From: "Chris Kuell" <ckuell at comcast.net>
>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Hemingway quote
>>> Message-ID: <5A8AA93EAB9A441695CDB7DCBC00FC4F at ChrisPC>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>>         reply-type=response
>>>
>>> Hey Brad,
>>>
>>> I've heard the gist of that quote before, and now it's got me thinking.
>>> I'm
>>> currently winding up a novel about a blind massage therapist caught up
>>> in a
>>> sticky love triangle, and after writing the first 5 chapters in third
>>> person
>>> POV, I started over again and have been writing it in first person. The
>>> reason for the change was that 1. people generally prefer the stories
>>> I've
>>> written in the first person , and 2. I wanted potential readers to be
>>> inside
>>> the head of a blind guy. It's been interesting, but very challenging to
>>> pull
>>> off an entire novel. I belong to a critique group, and 2 'complaints'
>>> I've
>>> received are that I never describe my main character, or my other
>>> characters
>>> visually, with the exception of one luscious female, but even then it's
>>> a
>>> description of her fabulous body, and the reader, like the character,
>>> knows
>>> nothing about her face, eyes, smile, hair, etc... I know all the books
>>> about
>>> craft tell you that you need to get in a description of your main
>>> characters
>>> early, and I've noticed that most novels do. But, in Hemingway's novel
>>> 'For
>>> Whom the Bell Tolls, the main character has a fling with a former 
>>> female
>>>
>>> prisoner, I forget her name but it begins with a P (Pia?), and 
>>> Hemingway
>>>
>>> describes only her short hair and the hat she wore. I've tried the
>>> remembering-a-photograph technique, but it strikes me as awkward and I
>>> cut
>>> it out.
>>>
>>> The second criticism is that people are interested in technology, or 
>>> how
>>> my
>>> character 'does things. This is where your Hemingway quote came to 
>>> mind.
>>> I
>>> know how Dan, my character does things, and I've mentioned a few, but I
>>> haven't gone into detail, which I feel is appropriate. He's got a
>>> computer
>>> with a screen reading program, which I mention in chapter 1 with about
>>> that
>>> much detail, and from then on he just uses his computer. I don't 
>>> mention
>>> how
>>> he tells time, or pays his bills, although at one point I say a friend
>>> helped him go through his mail. I say he takes the bus, but I don't say
>>> how
>>> he finds the bus or puts his money in the little thingee. He cooks, but
>>> I
>>> don't describe how he cooks, etc... In part, I think it's more
>>> natural--I
>>> mean, if he wasn't blind and you said he cooked a lasagna, you wouldn't
>>> want
>>> to know how. And in part, I just think it's awkward. Several years 
>>> ago I
>>>
>>> read a novel with a blind character. The character lived in Baltimore,
>>> and
>>> to the author's credit (it was a sighted writer), she'd obviously done
>>> her
>>> research, and showed it off--too much, in my opinion. She stopped the
>>> flow
>>> of the story every time she had to take half-a-page to describe how the
>>> blind lady did the mundane things we all do in life.
>>>
>>> Anyway, your post made me think of it.
>>>
>>> chris
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>> Brad Dunse
>>
>> This world is but a canvas to our imaginations
>>
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>>
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>
>
> Brad Dunse
>
> Either make a plan for your life, or settle for being part of 
> another's. --American Proverb
>
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