[stylist] Pet PVS- Correcting fellow writers
PAUL BAVER
pebaver at verizon.net
Sat Mar 31 12:49:04 UTC 2012
Good morning Linda, this is the encouragement I expected from the day I
joined, and I'm glad that I took the chance to voice my opinion. Writing is
not only sharing my stories with others, for me it was a personal healing
process, to Wright my tragic life story, it has now been three years that
I've been working on it, and millions of tears later, it took forty plus
years to get over myself. Now that I did get over myself, I'd like to see
those people that are still full of themselves, get over it. I these days
look for the Sunshine, hearing the beauty of the Birds singing and a day
without drama, there's so much love, and beauty, to find, I have no time for
anything but positivity in my life. I only learned to use this computer in
(2005), and know I should be messaging now with an O-T message in my E-mail.
I'll be doing that to the next E-mail that I send to you. Again thank you
very much, for your genuine encouragement. Paul E Baver
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 7:36 AM
Subject: Re: [stylist] Pet PVS- Correcting fellow writers
> So nice to hear that in spite of your very sad experiences here, you have
> kept on going with your writing. That is what it is all about. Yes, we
> have been given a good deal of material to write from in the wild rants we
> have been given here. In fact, we could develop a "character" full blown
> by using this material.
>
> And, Paul, when you have a manuscript that is ready for your publisher to
> go over, many eyes will be looking over it and editing it along with you.
> Your job is to do the writing, and the editors will be doing their job, as
> well as a number of others.
>
> Paul, I am interested in knowing who some of your favorite authors are.
> What kinds of things do you read that you enjoy? I think that reading the
> things we love is the best teacher we can have. And, I am a college
> professor, so I can tell you for sure that is what is most important -
> reading and absorbing ideas from other writers. In fact, it's important to
> read across disciplines if you can - include philosophers, scientists,
> artists, and any other books you come across that might be interesting to
> you.
>
> I am a visual artist and author. Right now, I just finished reading a book
> by Pearl S. Buck, who gives insight into China in the first 50 years of
> the 20th century in her writing. It has enlightened me so much and given
> me a basis for understanding much more about the China we have today. I
> finished that and now I am reading another book written by a scientist.
> This book is on evolution and creation issues, from the scientific
> perspective and historical developments that have brought us to where we
> are today.
>
> Don't rule out anything. The most important thing to do at any age is to
> read and to be a life-long learner. Our learning begins in a classroom,
> for some of us, but it only begins there. It is not an end in itself. It
> is just a baby step on the path of our lives. What takes place outside of
> the classroom, and long after we leave those classrooms is where our
> stories really take form. Our degrees (I have three of them) are a
> personal achievement that we set for ourselves. It is for ourselves
> because we chose to follow a certain path. A college professor has to have
> a terminal degree as well as two others to even get a job interview.
>
> For writing, you certainly do not have to go to collee or have degrees.
> Some of the finest writers we can name had no degrees. What they have
> though, is a keen insight into the human condition as they have
> experienced it. Your life experiences are what is most important to your
> writing. What you THINK is far more important than knowing a list of rules
> for writing. It is your passion and your enthusiasm that will come
> through. The other things will be edited out or fixed by your editors.
> Just keep reading and writing.
> So very NICE to meet you Paul.
>
> Lynda
>
>
> Lynda Lambert
> 104 River Road
> Ellwood City, PA 16117
>
> 724 758 4979
>
> My Blog: http://www.walkingbyinnervision.blogspot.com
> My Website: http://lyndalambert.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "PAUL BAVER" <pebaver at verizon.net>
> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 11:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Pet PVS- Correcting fellow writers
>
>
>> Hi Linda thank you, I'm sure that out of the hundred or more members in
>> this club, there are more then just the two of us, that truly like
>> learning, and when a person gets chastised verbally it doesn't make for a
>> joyful learning experience. The few that go into there ranting, and
>> raving, I suppose that they must be experts in the Literary World. They
>> must have a great deal of experience in writing, and must know more about
>> Literature, then at my age I have time to learn. although in the two
>> years as a member of this writing group, I haven't yet read any published
>> works by those that go off on telling me how smart they think they are,
>> and how there years of Literary expertise has given them the privilege,
>> to give us a verbal lashing. I must state that, our club President, Mr.
>> Newman, is very helpful, and does bend over backwards, to help, in any
>> way he can. As for my writing accomplishments, no I haven't had anything
>> published either, but now that I've grown up, I'm working on a book,
>> about my life, a true story. I hope to get it published. I must say that
>> I've learned from this group, and there some very learned writers, within
>> our membership. I also do like to write Pomes, but fear, instead of
>> constructive critiquing, I will be told again to return to school, and
>> become educated , in the field of writing, and Literature . My book
>> surely has come a long way, and yes Sir, it has grown to a point that I
>> now am having it looked at by a publicist. I hope to hear from her soon.
>> I'm crossing my fingers, and my toes . Ok Linda, maybe I'll work on that
>> poem about the ranting, and raving . Sincerely Paul E Baver
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 8:06 PM
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Pet PVS- Correcting fellow writers
>>
>>
>>> Paul, you could make this into a POEM!
>>> It could be such a fun poem to do. You have lots of material to draw
>>> from.
>>>
>>>
>>> Lynda Lambert
>>> 104 River Road
>>> Ellwood City, PA 16117
>>>
>>> 724 758 4979
>>>
>>> My Blog: http://www.walkingbyinnervision.blogspot.com
>>> My Website: http://lyndalambert.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "PAUL BAVER" <pebaver at verizon.net>
>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 4:12 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Pet PVS- Correcting fellow writers
>>>
>>>
>>>> Bravo Linda, I joined about two years ago, and am not, in no way any
>>>> expert in this writing process, I to, was lambasted by the rant, I'm
>>>> not sure why the rant is so unhappy, or why the rant seams to be so
>>>> full of bitterness, but the rant is. The rant is the reason why, I
>>>> really don't comment or address, anything at all. Once the wrath of the
>>>> rant comes down on you, I don't need a second round. I applaud you, and
>>>> your very sincere thoughts. I'll brace myself, for my chastising by the
>>>> rant now. Paul E Baver
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 8:45 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Pet PVS- Correcting fellow writers
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I have to say just a couple of things here. I am very new to this list.
>>>>>When I saw there was a Writer's Division I thought how nice that would
>>>>>be to be in touch with other writers. Since my sight loss four years
>>>>>ago, I have very little contact with other writers. I was delighted to
>>>>>find this list. I would suppose most of you are pleased to be here,
>>>>>too.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am a member of another Division for the past 2 or 3 years and it is
>>>>> so enjoyable to be a part of it. The people on the list are so much
>>>>> fun to talk with every day. They have taught me how to do so many
>>>>> things that I needed help with because I still have so much to learn
>>>>> about sight loss and how to do many things. I am so grateful to them
>>>>> all for their help. In return, I try to help others as well, whenever
>>>>> I can. Recently, I even taught a couple of classes on that list, and I
>>>>> am scheduled to teach another one in May after I return from Puerto
>>>>> Rico.
>>>>> Every person on that list is valuable, and the person who runs that
>>>>> list is such an inspiration to everyone. That list has been my
>>>>> introduction to NFB, and it has been a God-send in my life. I even got
>>>>> to go to NFB headquarters a year ago, and met her in person. What a
>>>>> treasure she is!
>>>>>
>>>>> With that positive experience in mind, I joined this Writers Division.
>>>>> Here, I have met some people that are the same, smart, talented,
>>>>> helpful, kind, and encouraging. But then, to be honest, I have found
>>>>> the polar opposite here, as well. It sure has been an unpleasant
>>>>> surprise.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is a word for it in literature. It is called the "rant."
>>>>> When a person writes an opinion, or a comment, I have come to realize
>>>>> the Rant will come out loud and clear.
>>>>>
>>>>> I read that there are over 100 people on this list. I also read that
>>>>> only a small portion participate, maybe 15 or so? Don't you wonder
>>>>> why that is? Who needs or desires to participate in a group when
>>>>> just an innocent comment brings down thunder and lightening? Is this
>>>>> a one person operation here? Or, is it a community of writers who have
>>>>> respect for one another and appreciate the opportunity for exchange?
>>>>> The longer I view this list the more I see that a bully seems to be
>>>>> runing the show and if she does not like that person, they are
>>>>> ostracized, through her rants.
>>>>>
>>>>> I see there are some really good qualities on this site. The ones who
>>>>> take the time to put up a "word" for the day, with definitions is such
>>>>> a good thing. Others have put up some really nice poems and
>>>>> reflections. Others offer challenges for writing inspiration. All
>>>>> great things. Personal stories have been so interesting and given a
>>>>> life to the person whom we know only by a name on the screen. I am
>>>>> thankful to have met so many of you here. Everyone is valuable,
>>>>> everyone had something to give, everyone is worthwhile in my opinion.
>>>>>
>>>>> I certainly have not been offended by the folks who have offered
>>>>> comments on the few things I had put up. One comment really made me go
>>>>> to the books and figure out something I had not thought about. Others
>>>>> have given me insight into some other things that I appreciate.
>>>>> Another member gave one of my poems the best critique I could have
>>>>> imagined and showed me new insights into my own work. I hope to be as
>>>>> helpful to others as I can be and I have really enjoyed getting to
>>>>> know some of you off-list so much. What a great group of folks here.
>>>>> We need everyone - and wouldn't it be wonderful if more and more of
>>>>> those 100 plus on the list felt like sharing and communicating, too? I
>>>>> think so.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Lynda Lambert
>>>>> 104 River Road
>>>>> Ellwood City, PA 16117
>>>>>
>>>>> 724 758 4979
>>>>>
>>>>> My Blog: http://www.walkingbyinnervision.blogspot.com
>>>>> My Website: http://lyndalambert.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Eve Sanchez" <3rdeyeonly at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 10:10 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Pet PVS- Correcting fellow writers
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Wow Bridgit, Where did I say anything about critiquing or feedback?
>>>>>> You
>>>>>> are reading things that were never written and by the way; this is
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> second time you have told me I should not be in this group. Thank you
>>>>>> ever
>>>>>> so much. Eve
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 4:20 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter
>>>>>> <bpollpeter at hotmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Okay, prepare to brand me the B since that's what usually happens,
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>> here we go. And no, I'm not intending for this to become a
>>>>>>> never-ending
>>>>>>> thread with no conclusion. I merely throw food out for thought here.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why belong to a community of writers where we share our work from
>>>>>>> time-to-time if we do not want feedback and constructive criticism?
>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>> greatest writers in the world have and do belong to some type of
>>>>>>> writing
>>>>>>> community in which they not only share their work but provide
>>>>>>> feedback
>>>>>>> and constructive criticism.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A loving, warm environment is necessary to this process because no
>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>> is superior to anyone. We all have individual styles, voices,
>>>>>>> formats
>>>>>>> and processes in which we write. We need to recognize the difference
>>>>>>> between preference and wrong in terms of content, style and genre.
>>>>>>> Any
>>>>>>> feedback should be done with sincerity and a general appreciation
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> assisting fellow writers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Feedback is crucial however. You don't attack; you don't condescend;
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> don't take a derogatory tone, but you do provide feedback on what
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> enjoy and what you think can use work. When it comes to established
>>>>>>> rules and guidelines, you certainly point these out. Whether they be
>>>>>>> errors made in carelessness or made from lack of knowledge, it does
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> matter. Any writer should want a typo of any kind pointed out so it
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> be fixed. Sure, many of us will eventually find those mistakes, but
>>>>>>> why
>>>>>>> not take the assistance when offered? One less thing you have to do.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Stephen King does not write a novel then turn it over an have it
>>>>>>> published. Before he submits it, he has a group of trusted writing
>>>>>>> friends and editor who pour through a manuscript with him, pointing
>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>> the weak spots along with any grammatical and structural errors.
>>>>>>> Most
>>>>>>> people are aware that C. S. Lewis and J. R. R. Tolkien were
>>>>>>> colleagues
>>>>>>> who belonged to a group of writers who provided feedback for one
>>>>>>> another. This is why Lewis an Tolkien often seem similar because
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>> gave constructive feedback to each other, often incorporating ideas
>>>>>>> suggested by the other.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There's nothing wrong with giving this feedback to each other, and
>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>> one is affecting a superior attitude to do so. If I say your writing
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> ridiculous and not worth my time, this is wrong and not the type of
>>>>>>> feedback anyone should provide. If I say, however, I enjoyed this
>>>>>>> section, but I feel character A does not have enough depth, or I
>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>> your use of dialogue, but be careful of where you place punctuation
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> quotation marks, this is constructive criticism and very beneficial
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> helpful to any writer. If I make comments such as these, it's not
>>>>>>> because I think I know everything, or that I'm of a superior
>>>>>>> intellect
>>>>>>> than you, or a better writer than you, it's simply because I see
>>>>>>> potential and want to assist you in bringing out all the best
>>>>>>> aspects of
>>>>>>> your writing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In return, I expect similar feedback. Especially in the beginning
>>>>>>> stages
>>>>>>> with first drafts, we all need feedback. If I want to do my best
>>>>>>> work, I
>>>>>>> need a finger on the pulse of those reading it. Audience feedback is
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> only true way in which to learn what works and what doesn't in our
>>>>>>> writing. It's great when you say you enjoy my writing and it's good,
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>> this doesn't tell me much, or help me when revising. In short, it
>>>>>>> doesn't help make me a better writer; I just fatten up on the praise
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> always aware of where I need to concentrate my revising and editing
>>>>>>> efforts. This type of process is not contrary to a warm, loving an
>>>>>>> generous atmosphere. As the saying goes, a true friend is honest,
>>>>>>> and I
>>>>>>> think a similar comment can be said for writers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To say a place like Stylist should only be an outlet in which we sit
>>>>>>> back and just enjoy each others work is not giving an outlet like
>>>>>>> Stylist all the possibilities it can be. After material is
>>>>>>> published,
>>>>>>> then I want to sit back and enjoy it. Before, whether it be my own
>>>>>>> work
>>>>>>> or others, I want to get my hands dirty, ironing and polishing,
>>>>>>> bringing
>>>>>>> all the potential to the surface.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My essay published in Breath and Shadow's winter issue is a piece
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> I've worked on for about four years. It has gone through rounds of
>>>>>>> revision including several workshops, and I had posted sections of
>>>>>>> it on
>>>>>>> Stylist to get feedback from those who cared to do so. What is in B
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> S (ha-ha, just realized the initials here, grin) is something that
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> only took time, as well as the result of my own creativity and
>>>>>>> editing,
>>>>>>> but of the feedback from others. And I will still probably continue
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> revise it over time.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So I think it unfair to us as writers and to the intention of
>>>>>>> Stylist to
>>>>>>> say it's wrong or childish or the result of superior attitudes to
>>>>>>> provide feedback when we post work here. Again, if you don't want
>>>>>>> feedback from your peers, or can't handle it, a writing community of
>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>> kind is not the place for you. And editors, publishers and authors
>>>>>>> published numerous times are not the only "experts" who can provide
>>>>>>> constructive feedback. Our writing peers can have just as much
>>>>>>> knowledge
>>>>>>> and experience, and as I learned in university, ultimately it's up
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> your intended audience who often are not writers or have any writing
>>>>>>> experience/knowledge who determine the success of any writer. So why
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> take the opportunity to receive feedback from your peers? In fact, I
>>>>>>> don't see those of us proving such feedback as being superior, but
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> opposite; if you don't want feedback, it could be interpreted as you
>>>>>>> thinking yourself too superior to accept feedback from anyone else.
>>>>>>> As
>>>>>>> always, it's a matter of perspective.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>> Bridgit Kuenning-Pollpeter
>>>>>>> Read my blog at:
>>>>>>> http://blogs.livewellnebraska.com/author/bpollpeter/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "History is not what happened; history is what was written down."
>>>>>>> The Expected One- Kathleen McGowan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Writers Division web site:
>>>>>>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.net
>>>>>>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> stylist:
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Writers Division web site:
>>>>>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.net
>>>>>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> stylist mailing list
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>>>>>> stylist:
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Writers Division web site:
>>>>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.net
>>>>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>>>>
>>>>> stylist mailing list
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Writers Division web site:
>>>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.net
>>>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>>>
>>>> stylist mailing list
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Writers Division web site:
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>>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>>
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>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>
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>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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