[stylist] To ponder- taken to another level
Anita Ogletree
yrstrli at gmail.com
Sun Feb 10 00:40:24 UTC 2013
Donna,
I found that to be my problem as well. Thank you for reminding
me of that. I could not follow through with what was being read
to save Christmas.
And pbbease don't let it be a readw with a monotone voice! It
didn't matter how much caffeine I tried pouring into my system, I
fell asleep waking to find that the cassette had stopped playing.
That was really disastrous innce I finally got the recorder I
didn't have at the start of the term.
Anita
> ----- Original Message -----
>From: "Donna Hill" <penatwork at epix.net
>To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Sat, 9 Feb 2013 13:04:03 -0500
>Subject: Re: [stylist] To ponder- taken to another level
>Bridgit,
>You reminded me that I went from print to audio in my freshman
year of
>college. Of course, in those days, we didn't have computers and
the old NLS
>books were on 16 rpm vinyl and the "RFB" books were on reel to
reel tape. I
>had a hard time adjusting to listening though. I couldn't pay
attention.
>Either my mind went off on a tangent and I didn't realize it
until several
>pages had gone by unnoticed, or I would simply fall asleep. As
much as I
>rely on audio for pleasure reading and everything on the
computer, I still
>have the same issue. I tend to read line by line when I'm
editing and by
>paragraph when I'm listening or content editing. But, when I'm
listening to
>audio books -- well, I not infrequently wake up having the
memory that I
>had stopped the book, which was merely a dream. I wonder why I
have that
>dream? Sometimes, I think it's to absolve myself of the guilt of
not having
>made a deliberate decision to stop.
>Donna
>-----Original Message-----
>From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
Bridgit
>Pollpeter
>Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2013 4:03 AM
>To: stylist at nfbnet.org
>Subject: [stylist] To ponder- taken to another level
>Aine,
>I agree that using Braille is the best way in which to gather
information
>when reading, but it's possible to use a screenreader in order to
read and
>edit.
>First, at least with JAWS, there are settings you can turn on so
all
>punctuation is read out loud, and newer versions of MS Word have
a feature
>that can be turned on indicating when a spelling or grammar
mistake has
>occurred. If sighted, this feature would be underlined in red,
but with
>screenreaders, it states that an error has occurred.
>Second, you can slow the voice down to better hear the nuances of
sentences.
>The drone of the electronic voice can be frustrating at first,
but trust me,
>after a time, you adjust and it's not so distracting. I think it
was Lynda
>who said she's a visual learner and not an audio learner, and I'm
the same,
>so when I went back to university and had to read primarily with
audio
>material, it was difficult. It took me an entire semester to
adjust and
>learn to focus with audio alone. And this was after extensive
hours of
>studying in this manner. But I did it, and I've made the switch,
though I
>still have to focus more than I did when sighted.
>Third, for those of us who learned print visually, we may have a
slight
>advantage when using just a screenreader and not Braille
displays. We have a
>visual understanding and therefore may know what to look for upon
an audio
>reading without using Braille. I'm not getting this thought out
properly.
>Perhaps someone else will understand and can better explain.
>Don't mistake me for saying sight is better, it's just a
different
>understanding perhaps. Someone help me out here?
>I majored in creative writing, minored in PR writing, and did an
internship
>with a PR firm where I was primarily a writer and copy editor.
As stated in
>other posts, because of neuropathy, it's difficult for me to use
Braille on
>an extensive level. I managed to use JAWS alone in order to
accomplish
>writing and editing, and I'm not all that slow when doing it.
With school, I
>graduated with honors, so I did something right, grin.
>I use JAWS alone to edit Slate & Style, the Writers' division
magazine, and
>I do pretty well. It can take me anywhere from 1 to 2 hours to
edit a single
>piece, and this is fairly common with any editor.
>My point is not to discourage Braille but that it is possible to
>successfully read, write and edit without it if one must. If you
can use
>Braille then I strongly encourage one to do so, but if like me,
it's not
>impossible to do.
>Now homophones are the one tricky thing. As you state,
screenreaders will
>not pick up if the wrong homophone is used such as there and
their.
>If I'm familiar with another person's writing, I will know if I
need to be
>cognizant of checking or not. I don't typically make this
mistake as I'm
>pretty anal about my writing and edit everything more than once
including
>casual emails, but this is probably attributed to my OCD
tendencies, smile.
>Sincerely,
>Bridgit Kuenning-Pollpeter, editor, Slate & Style Read my blog
at:
>http://blogs.livewellnebraska.com/author/bpollpeter/
>"If we discover a desire within us that nothing in this world can
satisfy,
>we should begin to wonder if perhaps we were created for another
world."
>C. S. Lewis
>Message: 7
>Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2013 23:03:55 +0100
>From: Aine Kelly-Costello <ainekc at gmail.com
>To: stylist at nfbnet.org
>Subject: Re: [stylist] Quote to ponder - taken to another level
>Message-ID: <5115767b.6f0db50a.0f14.ffffa30e at mx.google.com
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
>Here are some perhaps rather jumbled thoughts ...
>I learned braille as a very young child. I think I started
pre-braille
>activities at 3, and I have a few vague memories of reading a
progressive
>series of books at four (I lived in Ireland then, where starting
school at
>four is the norm). These books were progressive in the sense
that after I'd
>mastered grade 1 (letters, punctuation and numbers only), each
new one
>introduced me to one or two new contractions. I'd say I had a
reasonably
>good grasp of braille by the time I was six, and would have
finished
>learning all the contractions around then (for the non-braille
readers,
>Braille contractions are plentiful ...
>there's probably two hundred or so in English). The risk you run
by learning
>contractions "too soon" is one of not actually being able to
spell the darn
>words you know contractions for in the first place. For example,
once you
>know that "receive" is written rcv, it's very easy to forget
whether it's
>spelled "receive" or "recieve", seeing as practically everything
you read in
>Braille will contain the contraction. When I was little, I
remember there
>being questions raised about which contractions were and were not
legit in
>spelling tests. In my opinion, set letter combinations like ar,
in, en, ing,
>com, con etc are okay, but writing rcv for "receive" or dot 5 q
for
>"question" are obviously not. My point here is that even if you
read
>Braille, spelling may still be tricky.
>Regarding whether a blind person can learn visually ... That
depends how you
>define "visual", if you ask me. I've always been a reasonably
accurate
>speller (the one exception to that being homophones which I'll
talk about
>below). The few times I've had to memorize spelling lists, I
listen to the
>word and then an "image" pops up in my head which "looks" like me
feeling
>the Braille. Therefore I think I remember the word by
remembering how it
>looks in grade 2 (contracted) Braille, not letter by letter.
>On a side note, I think a knowledge of grade 2 makes it easier
for me to see
>words in their morphemes or syllables because of the way
contractions go.
>When I'm doing crosswords with my family, I am always the
quickest to work
>out how many letters there are in a long-ish word.
>Moving on to screenreaders, here are some thoughts (in no
particular order:
>1. There are many different synthesizers out there. Of course
they all have
>their good points, their differences and their idiosyncrasies.
For example,
>one might say "tear" as "teer" while another would say "tare".
One calls an
>acquaintance whose last name is Mishoe "Misho" while another says
"mis-hoe".
>This trend is a bit of a pain and doesn't exactly facilitate
recognition of
>words which are in fact spelled the same but pronounced
differently. It's
>especially a pain when the screenreader in question thinks it's
reading one
>language while it's actually reading another. I'm very used to
my
>BrailleNote's English Spanish but JAW's is totally different; I
find it much
>trickier to decipher and have to pay very close attention.
>2. A lot of screenreader users, from my experience anyway (and
I'm sure I've
>done it before), tend to occasionally infer spelling of words new
to them
>solely from listening, and without checking on them. I've had
various
>screenreader users e-mail me with my name, "Aine", spelled "Ain"
or "Ane"
>because according to JAWS, these three spellings are identical
>(incidentally, the BrailleNote's keynote gold synthesizer
pronounces "Ain"
>as "Ann").
>3. Homophones. I have a problem here ... Admit it, we've
probably all
>written the wrong "there/their/they're" at some point. But I've
taken this
>case to the extreme: I have in the past mixed up "role" and
"roll", "route"
>and "root", "jell" and "gel", "sight"
>and "site" ... Now of course I know exactly what all these words
mean and
>which is which (now, at least ...) but I strongly suspect that my
accidental
>lack of respect for their spelling has rather a lot to do with
reliance on
>speech for reading. The other problem, evidently, is when you're
>proofreading, if you rely solely on the speech and don't use a
braille
>display (which I admit I often do with long texts as it's about
thrae times
>faster) you have no way to "catch" homophones, leaving them to go
unnoticed
>and for whoever you might be sending your writing to to see.
>4. Human accents. If you live in Australia or New Zealand, or
even some
>parts of England, you will know that the words "flaw"/"floor" and
>"saw"/"sore" can often sound remarkably alike in every day
speech. So alike,
>in fact, that people don't always realize how to spell them. I
have seen two
>e-mails, written in reasonably formal situations by two different
sighted
>adults, informing me that such and such was a "very highly sort
after"
>teacher. This is taken to another level among blind people,
>though: I've seen people talk about "Lattern" (Latin) dancing and
>"precortions" (precautions) among others. I spent three and a
half years in
>Canada and have parents with mid-Atlantic accents so I am happily
free from
>this problem. I do remember my brother arriving home from his
first day of
>school in New Zealand though (he was five, and we'd just recently
moved
>there), claiming they were being taught the letter w with a song
that went
>"wheat and windy, wih, wih, wih". And so, he was introduced to
the strong
>"ehh" sound in the New Zealand accent ...
>Now on to the advantages of braille. Screenreaders, as some have
mentioned
>already, are a pain when it comes to understanding form and
recognizing
>pudctuation. Sure they can read you the punctuation, but being
told there's
>a comma and actually reading that comma for yourself are in my
opinion too
>different things).
>This is especially true of poetry. The first few times I read
any poem, it
>is ALWAYS by hand. I have a BrailleNote with a braille display,
and this is
>one of its many uses. To be honest, though, if a blind person
really wants
>to see form clearly, you can't beat hard-copy Braille in my
opinion. For
>example, I remember having to multiply matrices in my year 11
Maths exam.
>This was quite literally done with one hand on one matrix reading
>horizontally and the other hand on the other one reading
vertically. If I
>had tried to do that with a screen reader I think my brain might
have
>overloaded ...
>Beyond seeing form and punctuation, there are obviously more
advantages of
>being able to read Braille. Braille Music, for instance. I'd
never have been
>able to join orchestras and be where I am at the moment
music-wise without
>it. What about learning a new language? I like to be able to
read books in
>Spanish by hand because, it not being nearly as strong as my
English, I
>still miss detail when using speech. It's also great for giving
speeches and
>debates. I would not be at all amused if I had to speak in an
impromptu
>debate without being able to read my notes in Braille. Being
able to
>participate in class when people are reading out, say, lines from
different
>characters in a play, is definitely nice. Moreover, I know I'd
really have
>struggled to do well in Maths without Braille, and I'm not just
talking
>about the matrices. I don't know how you could proofread long,
complicated
>calculus with a screenreader in an exam, it'd surely be slow at
best.
>Anyway, there are my musings on the topic ...
>Aine
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