[stylist] Message 12 (Braille)

Tue Feb 19 12:41:03 UTC 2013

I am currently learning Braille and JAWS right now. I get braille first and then I go to JAWS training. Since I am adapting to reading as well as writing braille I try my best to incoporate braille into everything that I write and read. However, when I get to JAWS training it's hard to make the switch (smile). 

"Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths."
--Proverbs 3:5-6 (KJV)

Erica Turner
Home: 904-284-4511
Cell: 904-881-1168
E-mail: babslady79 at bellsouth.net

--- On Mon, 2/18/13, stylist-request at nfbnet.org <stylist-request at nfbnet.org> wrote:

From: stylist-request at nfbnet.org <stylist-request at nfbnet.org>
Subject: stylist Digest, Vol 106, Issue 31
To: stylist at nfbnet.org
Date: Monday, February 18, 2013, 10:11 PM

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: more on this subject of Working in blindness field
      (Donna Hill)
   2. Re: more on this subject of Working in blindness field
      (justin williams)
   3. Re: more on this subject of Working in blindness field
      (justin williams)
   4. Re: more on this subject of Working in blindness field
      (Lynda Lambert)
   5. Re: more on this subject of Working in blindness field
      (Lynda Lambert)
   6. Re: a RANT (Barbara Hammel)
   7. Definition of blindness (Bridgit Pollpeter)
   8. Working in blindness field (Bridgit Pollpeter)
   9. Definition of blindness (Bridgit Pollpeter)
  10. Re: Definition of blindness (Lynda Lambert)
  11. Re: a RANT (Lynda Lambert)
  12. Re: Braille (Anita Ogletree)
  13. Re: Definition of blindness (Anita Ogletree)
  14. Re: more on this subject of Working in blindness field
      (Donna Hill)
  15. Re: Definition of blindness (Donna Hill)
  16. Re: more on : Article showing what    parents & kidsarefacing
      (Ashley Bramlett)
  17. Re: Sending this    again:Articleshowingwhatparentsofblindkids
      are facing (Ashley Bramlett)
  18. Re: Definition of blindness (Lynda Lambert)
  19. Re: more on this subject of Working in blindness field
      (Ashley Bramlett)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 13:11:16 -0500
From: "Donna Hill" <penatwork at epix.net>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness
    field
Message-ID: <299AA09923A14F619C18094E3743E6F7 at OwnerHP>
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"

Lynda,
You bring up one of those similarities I'm always talking about between the
blindness movement and other civil rights movements. Years ago, the normal
perception of women did not include much in the way of  career-readiness.
Sure, women had to work in factories in WWII to support the war effort, but
as for careers, you could teach or be a nurse; that was about it. The
underlying message was that when it came to what was best for women, men
knew best . Fortunately, we have come a long way, baby!

The whole erasers on pencils thing has dredged up another memory. When I was
in junior high, they made me take a test of my manual dexterity, which I
didn't think at the time was something that other kids got. . It involved
putting pegs into holes on a board -- literally the square peg in the round
hole kind of thing. I was overpowered by the impression that, if I did well
on this test, they would push me into manual labor of some sort. I didn't
know what I could do, but I knew I wasn't having fantasies about putting
pegs in holes, so I "threw" the test -- figuratively speaking.

I had a hard time with setting goals, because on some level I believed that
I couldn't do anything. I had secret dreams of what I'd like to do, but
there was a real disconnect between that and having a plan. The thing that
kept me going was the knowledge that, whatever anyone else said or how true
it was, I didn't want those things to be true. That's really all I had.
Goals came later. My somewhat cynical version of the Plan A thing is that if
you strive for Plan A, you might not make it, but you might make plan B. If
you don't strive for plan A, you're not even going to make plan B.
Donna 

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda Lambert
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 12:47 PM
To: Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness field

Donna,
You might have been putting erasers in pencils - OMG!
Can you envision yourself in such a place? Never!
You are living proof of seeking out a goal that is a passion and going for
it.

When I graduated from high school, in the dark ages of course, I as told by
the counselor that I had really good hand and eye coordination, so I should
work our very well in a factory assembly line. Never mind that my IQ was
already beyond that of a college graduate - no, I should apply for a laborer
job. OMG. I would have been fired very quickly from such a job as I would
have been there daydreaming and imagining and I would have either had a bad
accident, or caused the entire place to be in shut down mode from something
stupid I would have done.

I could not do any kind of repetitive activity for even a day - probably not
even for an hour, really.  I really had a good laugh at the thought of you
doing the erasers, but then, that isn't really funny when you follow it to
it's end, is it?

When my students would sit down with me and we would discuss their schedule
and their plans for a major, I told them to never settle for anything other
than what they have a passion for - because if they do, in mid-life they
will be longing for the thing they wanted in the first place - and so many
people at mid-life are so unhappy with the life they created for themselves.

Even if they are financially successful, the failure to pursue their dream
is still with them. I have seen this many times.

Lynda

----- Original Message -----
From: "Donna Hill" <penatwork at epix.net>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness field

> Good advice.
> Donna
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda 
> Lambert
> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 12:24 PM
> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness field
>
> I recommend the book, "Cockeyed" - which is available through library of
> congress for the reading machines we have - a teenager who was going 
> blind,
> and became a professor of English - it is super funny - and yet so
> enlightening as to the high goals a person can achieve by never settling 
> for
> Plan B.
> My advice, is, those who plan for Plan B, end up being there instead of at
> Plan A where they really wanted to be.
> I do not believe in settling for anything less than the absolute desire of
> your heart - Plan A is the only acceptable plan in my own life. I am an
> advid believer in being completely outside the comfort level for as long 
> as
> it takes to achieve your goals. And, once you are "there" you continue to
> work your butt off without any excuses.
> Excellence is the only path worth following.
>
> Lynda
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 10:52 AM
> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness field
>
>
>> New Braska is all kinds of awesome.  Some states are better than others.
>> Any field is open, but you may have to move to find it.  Aiwa is another
>> good state.  Leaving out the venders and customer service reps, no
>> disrespect to any of the people in those fields, human service or 
>> computer
>> programming fields followed by professors  and lawyers seem to be where
>> totals or braille users work.  This is by no means cut and dry, and I am
>> not
>> including lo vision applicants, because the better your sight, the more
>> likely you will be to have a job which is outside of that block of fiends
>> that I just mentioned.  I've met braille users in just about every type 
>> of
>> career field, but keep in mind that a person who is blind does develop 
>> and
>> emphasize a slightly different skill set which naturally fits them better
>> to
>> certain fields.  Going outside of those fields generally speaking, will
>> force the person to have to constantly perform at a higher level of skill
>> just to have a chance of success.  Of course, that is possible.  But
>> remember, I am making a basic statement.  Feel free to enlighten me
>> further.  Remember, I am saying this with the caveat  that anything is
>> possible, and I have met Blind teachers, mechanics, business owners who
>> are
>> not venders, cabinent makers, among others.  Not all of the teachers were
>> teachers of the bisually impaired.  Some taught in standard classroom
>> formats.  I have heard of blind electricians, met travel agents, there 
>> you
>> go, travel agent is another field for the blind, and even read the 
>> article
>> on the blind doctor. I think he is somewhere in canada.
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Robert
>> Leslie
>> Newman
>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 9:14 AM
>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>> Subject: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness field
>>
>> Guys
>> Back when I started working for the commission for the Blind here in
>> Nebraska, back in the seventies, our federation had the mindset (this is 
>> a
>> generalization) that if you as a blind person had one of those jobs, then
>> you were suspect, as in you had gone over to the other side, that of the
>> enemy! (This was the state of relations between the progressive blind and
>> the rehab services.) Boy, back then, in a NFB chapter around here, you
>> mostly weren't encouraged to try and become an officer, because it was
>> feared that you would be a spy for the rehab side, and would be pushing
>> their (the bad guys) agenda. But --- this all changed. Here in Nebraska
>> and
>> in New Mexico and maybe in some other states, the NFB got the bad agency
>> head folks fired and had a hand in who and what changes had to occur ---
>> and
>> so the NFB philosophy got the upper hand. And then, it became respectful
>> for
>> NFB members to be part of the rehab scene. (Here in the Omaha chapter we
>> still have one older member, like in the 80's who doesn't like seeing a
>> rehab professional being in a leadership position.)
>>
>> Think of it, one of the larger and more active NFB Division's is the
>> Rehabilitation Professionals.
>>
>> #2 Taking a serious look at job opportunities for the blind in blind
>> related
>> professions --- count up the number of rehab agencies and/or other
>> services
>> around the country and add up how many blind folks are working within 
>> them
>> and I bet that number is not as great as you think!!! Consider, that in
>> general, the not so good agencies who have low expectations are the ones
>> that will more than likely hire only a few token blind workers. And the
>> better rehab services, which are the minority in this nationwide group
>> that
>> we are looking at --- sure, they may have more blind guys on staff.
>> (Nebraska at present has 1 blind related rehab service only. They have a
>> total staff at the commission that numbers around 55 and 17 are blind. 
>> All
>> other employed blind people work in a variety of other jobs; Nebraska is
>> one
>> of the better states for employment of the blind and there are a bunch of
>> folks that are doing all kinds of jobs.) So watch that thought of yours,
>> that there are a big number of blind folks working in blind related
>> jobs ---
>> for either reason of- A. That is where they are accepted. Or B. That it 
>> is
>> the job that the blind think of first as to what they can do.
>>
>> (Just my rambling for this morning.)
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J.
>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 7:08 AM
>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Working in blindness field
>>
>> Bridget,
>>
>> Could it be that more of the state board members and generally more 
>> really
>> active members of the NFB are working in the blindness field because
>> blindness is their passion?It makes sense to me that if promoting
>> opportunities for blind people was your life's mission that you'd work in
>> that field and be more active within an organization that supported you.
>> I
>> do think all blind people have an interest in achieving true equality for
>> blind people. However I think for some it is their major life's work,
>> while
>> for others of us it is something we do when we can around our other main
>> pursuits. So it makes sense to me that there would be a large number of
>> people within the NFB that do or want to work in the blindness field.
>>
>> I've been blind for around 20 years now.  While I do know quite a few
>> blind
>> people who work in the blindness field, I'd say I know a larger number 
>> who
>> don't.  Perhaps that's because I have never been very involved in
>> leadership
>> within the NFB.  It does seem that those in leadership positions do work
>> in
>> the blindness field much more frequently.  Again that makes sense to me
>> due
>> to their strong interest and commitment to the cause.
>>
>> Julie
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2/17/2013 11:13 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote:
>>> Ashley,
>>>
>>> Without actual stats, we can't really debate this, but that being
>>> said, I beg to differ, at least to a degree.
>>>
>>> I don't think anyone here is trying to make generalizations seeing as
>>> we all are blind, but we are all speaking from our experiences and
>>> personal observations.
>>>
>>> In the ten years I've been blind, which isn't long compared to some,
>>> I've met more blind people working in a blindness-related field or
>>> hoping to be employed in a blindness related field. For every lawyer,
>>> teacher and computer programmer I've met, I've met ten who worked in a
>>> job relating to blindness.
>>>
>>> There's nothing wrong with this, and most of us would agree that blind
>>> people need to be working in these fields, but I also think it can
>>> become a safety net for some; not all, but many.
>>>
>>> I've been to NFB conventions, and yes, there are people employed in
>>> various fields, and many scholarship winners plan to, or are, pursuing
>>> a myriad of career paths, but again, for every one of these people
>>> I've met, I've met a dozen working in the blindness field. Or many of
>>> these people end up in a blindness field despite their choice of degree.
>>>
>>> And having heard several scholarship winners speak at conventions, a
>>> good number of them hope to work in some way in a blindness field or
>>> teaching the blind. Again, nothing wrong with this, and we do need
>>> blind people doing this, but, for me, it shows how many blind people
>>> go into a blindness related field.
>>>
>>> And in our affiliate, most of the leadership either works in the
>>> blindness field or hopes too. Of our eleven state board members, only
>>> two are employed outside of a blindness field, and one is working
>>> towards a degree so they can work in a blindness job.
>>>
>>> More and more blind people are seeking opportunities outside of a
>>> blindness related career, but many are still drawn to the field for
>>> whatever reason. Again, we need strong, competent blind people in this
>>> field, but we also need to consider what we truly want as a person and
>>> not a blind person.
>>>
>>> And a side note, I don't think Lynda meant anything negative by her
>>> comments nor was she implying all blind people work in a blindness
>>> related field. She was merely detailing her experience and speaking to
>>> that experience alone.
>>>
>>> Bridgit
>>>
>>> Message: 11
>>> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 22:28:29 -0500
>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett"<bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List"<stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Sending this again: Article
>>> showingwhatparentsofblindkids are facing
>>> Message-ID:<D073072BEB3F4E1F938EB6B7A6FF190A at OwnerPC>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>> reply-type=response
>>>
>>> Lynda,
>>> I beg to differ. Have you been to a nfb convention?
>>> There are people employed in all walks of life and most scholarship
>>> winners have a career aspiration in a non blindness field; they
>>> include future teachers, therapists, researchers,  counselors, and
>>> doctors.
>>> Most blind people I know work either in the IT field as computer
>>> programmers or in the government, far from the blindness fields! Read
>>> the braille monitor and you will see the wide variety of fields too!
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Writers Division web site
>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>> stylist mailing list
>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> stylist:
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>>> com
>>>
>>>
>>> -----
>>> No virus found in this message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 2012.0.2238 / Virus Database: 2639/5610 - Release Date:
>>> 02/17/13
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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> _______________________________________________
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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 13:32:45 -0500
From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness
    field
Message-ID: <017b01ce0d3d$2ec87ba0$8c5972e0$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"

Plan A  to me is the best in the long run, but one must decide whether it is
attainable, and if so, how much effort one is willing to use.  
The way I have advised clients in the past is to take into account the area
in which they live,   as well as their skill set and level of ability.  In
south Carolina, there are just some fields which would be nearly
unattainable, not that you can't try, but be aware that the effort necessary
may be greater than what you are willing to expend, or then what your
resources to hand can sustain.  It may not be practical.  You may have to
move to reach certain goals.  As long as you no that you may have to move,
and that you are willing to switch states if necessary, then just about any
dream is achievable.  This is no knock on intelligence. The fields I
mentioned before as blind friendly fields do not depend on sight.  In fields
which don't depend on sight, the Blind  can use their other senses, memory,
and tallents, as well as a strong will power.  Note.  
Without sight, these abilities and skills are better on average than your
sighted peers because you can't use sight as a crutch.  With the right
toosl, you are more effective in certain respects then they are.  

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Donna Hill
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 1:11 PM
To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness field

Lynda,
You bring up one of those similarities I'm always talking about between the
blindness movement and other civil rights movements. Years ago, the normal
perception of women did not include much in the way of  career-readiness.
Sure, women had to work in factories in WWII to support the war effort, but
as for careers, you could teach or be a nurse; that was about it. The
underlying message was that when it came to what was best for women, men
knew best . Fortunately, we have come a long way, baby!

The whole erasers on pencils thing has dredged up another memory. When I was
in junior high, they made me take a test of my manual dexterity, which I
didn't think at the time was something that other kids got. . It involved
putting pegs into holes on a board -- literally the square peg in the round
hole kind of thing. I was overpowered by the impression that, if I did well
on this test, they would push me into manual labor of some sort. I didn't
know what I could do, but I knew I wasn't having fantasies about putting
pegs in holes, so I "threw" the test -- figuratively speaking.

I had a hard time with setting goals, because on some level I believed that
I couldn't do anything. I had secret dreams of what I'd like to do, but
there was a real disconnect between that and having a plan. The thing that
kept me going was the knowledge that, whatever anyone else said or how true
it was, I didn't want those things to be true. That's really all I had.
Goals came later. My somewhat cynical version of the Plan A thing is that if
you strive for Plan A, you might not make it, but you might make plan B. If
you don't strive for plan A, you're not even going to make plan B.
Donna 

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda Lambert
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 12:47 PM
To: Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness field

Donna,
You might have been putting erasers in pencils - OMG!
Can you envision yourself in such a place? Never!
You are living proof of seeking out a goal that is a passion and going for
it.

When I graduated from high school, in the dark ages of course, I as told by
the counselor that I had really good hand and eye coordination, so I should
work our very well in a factory assembly line. Never mind that my IQ was
already beyond that of a college graduate - no, I should apply for a laborer
job. OMG. I would have been fired very quickly from such a job as I would
have been there daydreaming and imagining and I would have either had a bad
accident, or caused the entire place to be in shut down mode from something
stupid I would have done.

I could not do any kind of repetitive activity for even a day - probably not
even for an hour, really.  I really had a good laugh at the thought of you
doing the erasers, but then, that isn't really funny when you follow it to
it's end, is it?

When my students would sit down with me and we would discuss their schedule
and their plans for a major, I told them to never settle for anything other
than what they have a passion for - because if they do, in mid-life they
will be longing for the thing they wanted in the first place - and so many
people at mid-life are so unhappy with the life they created for themselves.

Even if they are financially successful, the failure to pursue their dream
is still with them. I have seen this many times.

Lynda

----- Original Message -----
From: "Donna Hill" <penatwork at epix.net>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness field

> Good advice.
> Donna
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda 
> Lambert
> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 12:24 PM
> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness field
>
> I recommend the book, "Cockeyed" - which is available through library of
> congress for the reading machines we have - a teenager who was going 
> blind,
> and became a professor of English - it is super funny - and yet so
> enlightening as to the high goals a person can achieve by never settling 
> for
> Plan B.
> My advice, is, those who plan for Plan B, end up being there instead of at
> Plan A where they really wanted to be.
> I do not believe in settling for anything less than the absolute desire of
> your heart - Plan A is the only acceptable plan in my own life. I am an
> advid believer in being completely outside the comfort level for as long 
> as
> it takes to achieve your goals. And, once you are "there" you continue to
> work your butt off without any excuses.
> Excellence is the only path worth following.
>
> Lynda
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 10:52 AM
> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness field
>
>
>> New Braska is all kinds of awesome.  Some states are better than others.
>> Any field is open, but you may have to move to find it.  Aiwa is another
>> good state.  Leaving out the venders and customer service reps, no
>> disrespect to any of the people in those fields, human service or 
>> computer
>> programming fields followed by professors  and lawyers seem to be where
>> totals or braille users work.  This is by no means cut and dry, and I am
>> not
>> including lo vision applicants, because the better your sight, the more
>> likely you will be to have a job which is outside of that block of fiends
>> that I just mentioned.  I've met braille users in just about every type 
>> of
>> career field, but keep in mind that a person who is blind does develop 
>> and
>> emphasize a slightly different skill set which naturally fits them better
>> to
>> certain fields.  Going outside of those fields generally speaking, will
>> force the person to have to constantly perform at a higher level of skill
>> just to have a chance of success.  Of course, that is possible.  But
>> remember, I am making a basic statement.  Feel free to enlighten me
>> further.  Remember, I am saying this with the caveat  that anything is
>> possible, and I have met Blind teachers, mechanics, business owners who
>> are
>> not venders, cabinent makers, among others.  Not all of the teachers were
>> teachers of the bisually impaired.  Some taught in standard classroom
>> formats.  I have heard of blind electricians, met travel agents, there 
>> you
>> go, travel agent is another field for the blind, and even read the 
>> article
>> on the blind doctor. I think he is somewhere in canada.
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Robert
>> Leslie
>> Newman
>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 9:14 AM
>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>> Subject: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness field
>>
>> Guys
>> Back when I started working for the commission for the Blind here in
>> Nebraska, back in the seventies, our federation had the mindset (this is 
>> a
>> generalization) that if you as a blind person had one of those jobs, then
>> you were suspect, as in you had gone over to the other side, that of the
>> enemy! (This was the state of relations between the progressive blind and
>> the rehab services.) Boy, back then, in a NFB chapter around here, you
>> mostly weren't encouraged to try and become an officer, because it was
>> feared that you would be a spy for the rehab side, and would be pushing
>> their (the bad guys) agenda. But --- this all changed. Here in Nebraska
>> and
>> in New Mexico and maybe in some other states, the NFB got the bad agency
>> head folks fired and had a hand in who and what changes had to occur ---
>> and
>> so the NFB philosophy got the upper hand. And then, it became respectful
>> for
>> NFB members to be part of the rehab scene. (Here in the Omaha chapter we
>> still have one older member, like in the 80's who doesn't like seeing a
>> rehab professional being in a leadership position.)
>>
>> Think of it, one of the larger and more active NFB Division's is the
>> Rehabilitation Professionals.
>>
>> #2 Taking a serious look at job opportunities for the blind in blind
>> related
>> professions --- count up the number of rehab agencies and/or other
>> services
>> around the country and add up how many blind folks are working within 
>> them
>> and I bet that number is not as great as you think!!! Consider, that in
>> general, the not so good agencies who have low expectations are the ones
>> that will more than likely hire only a few token blind workers. And the
>> better rehab services, which are the minority in this nationwide group
>> that
>> we are looking at --- sure, they may have more blind guys on staff.
>> (Nebraska at present has 1 blind related rehab service only. They have a
>> total staff at the commission that numbers around 55 and 17 are blind. 
>> All
>> other employed blind people work in a variety of other jobs; Nebraska is
>> one
>> of the better states for employment of the blind and there are a bunch of
>> folks that are doing all kinds of jobs.) So watch that thought of yours,
>> that there are a big number of blind folks working in blind related
>> jobs ---
>> for either reason of- A. That is where they are accepted. Or B. That it 
>> is
>> the job that the blind think of first as to what they can do.
>>
>> (Just my rambling for this morning.)
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J.
>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 7:08 AM
>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Working in blindness field
>>
>> Bridget,
>>
>> Could it be that more of the state board members and generally more 
>> really
>> active members of the NFB are working in the blindness field because
>> blindness is their passion?It makes sense to me that if promoting
>> opportunities for blind people was your life's mission that you'd work in
>> that field and be more active within an organization that supported you.
>> I
>> do think all blind people have an interest in achieving true equality for
>> blind people. However I think for some it is their major life's work,
>> while
>> for others of us it is something we do when we can around our other main
>> pursuits. So it makes sense to me that there would be a large number of
>> people within the NFB that do or want to work in the blindness field.
>>
>> I've been blind for around 20 years now.  While I do know quite a few
>> blind
>> people who work in the blindness field, I'd say I know a larger number 
>> who
>> don't.  Perhaps that's because I have never been very involved in
>> leadership
>> within the NFB.  It does seem that those in leadership positions do work
>> in
>> the blindness field much more frequently.  Again that makes sense to me
>> due
>> to their strong interest and commitment to the cause.
>>
>> Julie
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2/17/2013 11:13 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote:
>>> Ashley,
>>>
>>> Without actual stats, we can't really debate this, but that being
>>> said, I beg to differ, at least to a degree.
>>>
>>> I don't think anyone here is trying to make generalizations seeing as
>>> we all are blind, but we are all speaking from our experiences and
>>> personal observations.
>>>
>>> In the ten years I've been blind, which isn't long compared to some,
>>> I've met more blind people working in a blindness-related field or
>>> hoping to be employed in a blindness related field. For every lawyer,
>>> teacher and computer programmer I've met, I've met ten who worked in a
>>> job relating to blindness.
>>>
>>> There's nothing wrong with this, and most of us would agree that blind
>>> people need to be working in these fields, but I also think it can
>>> become a safety net for some; not all, but many.
>>>
>>> I've been to NFB conventions, and yes, there are people employed in
>>> various fields, and many scholarship winners plan to, or are, pursuing
>>> a myriad of career paths, but again, for every one of these people
>>> I've met, I've met a dozen working in the blindness field. Or many of
>>> these people end up in a blindness field despite their choice of degree.
>>>
>>> And having heard several scholarship winners speak at conventions, a
>>> good number of them hope to work in some way in a blindness field or
>>> teaching the blind. Again, nothing wrong with this, and we do need
>>> blind people doing this, but, for me, it shows how many blind people
>>> go into a blindness related field.
>>>
>>> And in our affiliate, most of the leadership either works in the
>>> blindness field or hopes too. Of our eleven state board members, only
>>> two are employed outside of a blindness field, and one is working
>>> towards a degree so they can work in a blindness job.
>>>
>>> More and more blind people are seeking opportunities outside of a
>>> blindness related career, but many are still drawn to the field for
>>> whatever reason. Again, we need strong, competent blind people in this
>>> field, but we also need to consider what we truly want as a person and
>>> not a blind person.
>>>
>>> And a side note, I don't think Lynda meant anything negative by her
>>> comments nor was she implying all blind people work in a blindness
>>> related field. She was merely detailing her experience and speaking to
>>> that experience alone.
>>>
>>> Bridgit
>>>
>>> Message: 11
>>> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 22:28:29 -0500
>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett"<bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List"<stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Sending this again: Article
>>> showingwhatparentsofblindkids are facing
>>> Message-ID:<D073072BEB3F4E1F938EB6B7A6FF190A at OwnerPC>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>> reply-type=response
>>>
>>> Lynda,
>>> I beg to differ. Have you been to a nfb convention?
>>> There are people employed in all walks of life and most scholarship
>>> winners have a career aspiration in a non blindness field; they
>>> include future teachers, therapists, researchers,  counselors, and
>>> doctors.
>>> Most blind people I know work either in the IT field as computer
>>> programmers or in the government, far from the blindness fields! Read
>>> the braille monitor and you will see the wide variety of fields too!
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Writers Division web site
>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>> stylist mailing list
>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> stylist:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/julielj%40neb.rr.
>>> com
>>>
>>>
>>> -----
>>> No virus found in this message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 2012.0.2238 / Virus Database: 2639/5610 - Release Date:
>>> 02/17/13
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site
>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>> stylist mailing list
>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> stylist:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/newmanrl%40cox.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site
>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>> stylist mailing list
>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> stylist:
>>
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmai
>> l.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site
>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>> stylist mailing list
>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> stylist:
>>
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet
> .net
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site
> http://www.writers-division.net/
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> stylist:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/penatwork%40epix.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> http://www.writers-division.net/
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> stylist:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet
.net
> 

_______________________________________________
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http://www.writers-division.net/
stylist mailing list
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
stylist:
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_______________________________________________
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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 13:36:56 -0500
From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness
    field
Message-ID: <017d01ce0d3d$c3e405b0$4bac1110$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"

You are cheating to your ability set.  You are cheating to your skill set.
If it lies elsewhere, such as being an environmental engineer, then by all
means pursue that dream.  There is no reason you can't accomplish it.  But
you may have to go to, California new braska, Colorado, or Iowa for easier
access.  Of course, you could be a pioneer.  Who knows.  Maybe you can make
something happen in a less aware state; it will just be harder.  

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Donna Hill
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 1:11 PM
To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness field

Lynda,
You bring up one of those similarities I'm always talking about between the
blindness movement and other civil rights movements. Years ago, the normal
perception of women did not include much in the way of  career-readiness.
Sure, women had to work in factories in WWII to support the war effort, but
as for careers, you could teach or be a nurse; that was about it. The
underlying message was that when it came to what was best for women, men
knew best . Fortunately, we have come a long way, baby!

The whole erasers on pencils thing has dredged up another memory. When I was
in junior high, they made me take a test of my manual dexterity, which I
didn't think at the time was something that other kids got. . It involved
putting pegs into holes on a board -- literally the square peg in the round
hole kind of thing. I was overpowered by the impression that, if I did well
on this test, they would push me into manual labor of some sort. I didn't
know what I could do, but I knew I wasn't having fantasies about putting
pegs in holes, so I "threw" the test -- figuratively speaking.

I had a hard time with setting goals, because on some level I believed that
I couldn't do anything. I had secret dreams of what I'd like to do, but
there was a real disconnect between that and having a plan. The thing that
kept me going was the knowledge that, whatever anyone else said or how true
it was, I didn't want those things to be true. That's really all I had.
Goals came later. My somewhat cynical version of the Plan A thing is that if
you strive for Plan A, you might not make it, but you might make plan B. If
you don't strive for plan A, you're not even going to make plan B.
Donna 

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda Lambert
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 12:47 PM
To: Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness field

Donna,
You might have been putting erasers in pencils - OMG!
Can you envision yourself in such a place? Never!
You are living proof of seeking out a goal that is a passion and going for
it.

When I graduated from high school, in the dark ages of course, I as told by
the counselor that I had really good hand and eye coordination, so I should
work our very well in a factory assembly line. Never mind that my IQ was
already beyond that of a college graduate - no, I should apply for a laborer
job. OMG. I would have been fired very quickly from such a job as I would
have been there daydreaming and imagining and I would have either had a bad
accident, or caused the entire place to be in shut down mode from something
stupid I would have done.

I could not do any kind of repetitive activity for even a day - probably not
even for an hour, really.  I really had a good laugh at the thought of you
doing the erasers, but then, that isn't really funny when you follow it to
it's end, is it?

When my students would sit down with me and we would discuss their schedule
and their plans for a major, I told them to never settle for anything other
than what they have a passion for - because if they do, in mid-life they
will be longing for the thing they wanted in the first place - and so many
people at mid-life are so unhappy with the life they created for themselves.

Even if they are financially successful, the failure to pursue their dream
is still with them. I have seen this many times.

Lynda

----- Original Message -----
From: "Donna Hill" <penatwork at epix.net>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness field

> Good advice.
> Donna
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda 
> Lambert
> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 12:24 PM
> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness 
> field
>
> I recommend the book, "Cockeyed" - which is available through library 
> of congress for the reading machines we have - a teenager who was 
> going blind, and became a professor of English - it is super funny - 
> and yet so enlightening as to the high goals a person can achieve by 
> never settling for Plan B.
> My advice, is, those who plan for Plan B, end up being there instead 
> of at Plan A where they really wanted to be.
> I do not believe in settling for anything less than the absolute 
> desire of your heart - Plan A is the only acceptable plan in my own 
> life. I am an advid believer in being completely outside the comfort 
> level for as long as it takes to achieve your goals. And, once you are 
> "there" you continue to work your butt off without any excuses.
> Excellence is the only path worth following.
>
> Lynda
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 10:52 AM
> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness 
> field
>
>
>> New Braska is all kinds of awesome.  Some states are better than others.
>> Any field is open, but you may have to move to find it.  Aiwa is 
>> another good state.  Leaving out the venders and customer service 
>> reps, no disrespect to any of the people in those fields, human 
>> service or computer programming fields followed by professors  and 
>> lawyers seem to be where totals or braille users work.  This is by no 
>> means cut and dry, and I am not including lo vision applicants, 
>> because the better your sight, the more likely you will be to have a 
>> job which is outside of that block of fiends that I just mentioned.  
>> I've met braille users in just about every type of career field, but 
>> keep in mind that a person who is blind does develop and emphasize a 
>> slightly different skill set which naturally fits them better to 
>> certain fields.  Going outside of those fields generally speaking, 
>> will force the person to have to constantly perform at a higher level 
>> of skill just to have a chance of success.  Of course, that is 
>> possible.  But remember, I am making a basic statement.  Feel free to 
>> enlighten me further.  Remember, I am saying this with the caveat  
>> that anything is possible, and I have met Blind teachers, mechanics, 
>> business owners who are not venders, cabinent makers, among others.  
>> Not all of the teachers were teachers of the bisually impaired.  Some 
>> taught in standard classroom formats.  I have heard of blind 
>> electricians, met travel agents, there you go, travel agent is 
>> another field for the blind, and even read the article on the blind 
>> doctor. I think he is somewhere in canada.
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Robert 
>> Leslie Newman
>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 9:14 AM
>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>> Subject: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness field
>>
>> Guys
>> Back when I started working for the commission for the Blind here in 
>> Nebraska, back in the seventies, our federation had the mindset (this 
>> is a
>> generalization) that if you as a blind person had one of those jobs, 
>> then you were suspect, as in you had gone over to the other side, 
>> that of the enemy! (This was the state of relations between the 
>> progressive blind and the rehab services.) Boy, back then, in a NFB 
>> chapter around here, you mostly weren't encouraged to try and become 
>> an officer, because it was feared that you would be a spy for the 
>> rehab side, and would be pushing their (the bad guys) agenda. But --- 
>> this all changed. Here in Nebraska and in New Mexico and maybe in 
>> some other states, the NFB got the bad agency head folks fired and 
>> had a hand in who and what changes had to occur --- and so the NFB 
>> philosophy got the upper hand. And then, it became respectful for NFB 
>> members to be part of the rehab scene. (Here in the Omaha chapter we 
>> still have one older member, like in the 80's who doesn't like seeing 
>> a rehab professional being in a leadership position.)
>>
>> Think of it, one of the larger and more active NFB Division's is the 
>> Rehabilitation Professionals.
>>
>> #2 Taking a serious look at job opportunities for the blind in blind 
>> related professions --- count up the number of rehab agencies and/or 
>> other services around the country and add up how many blind folks are 
>> working within them and I bet that number is not as great as you 
>> think!!! Consider, that in general, the not so good agencies who have 
>> low expectations are the ones that will more than likely hire only a 
>> few token blind workers. And the better rehab services, which are the 
>> minority in this nationwide group that we are looking at --- sure, 
>> they may have more blind guys on staff.
>> (Nebraska at present has 1 blind related rehab service only. They 
>> have a total staff at the commission that numbers around 55 and 17 are
blind.
>> All
>> other employed blind people work in a variety of other jobs; Nebraska 
>> is one of the better states for employment of the blind and there are 
>> a bunch of folks that are doing all kinds of jobs.) So watch that 
>> thought of yours, that there are a big number of blind folks working 
>> in blind related jobs --- for either reason of- A. That is where they 
>> are accepted. Or B. That it is the job that the blind think of first 
>> as to what they can do.
>>
>> (Just my rambling for this morning.)
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J.
>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 7:08 AM
>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Working in blindness field
>>
>> Bridget,
>>
>> Could it be that more of the state board members and generally more 
>> really active members of the NFB are working in the blindness field 
>> because blindness is their passion?It makes sense to me that if 
>> promoting opportunities for blind people was your life's mission that 
>> you'd work in that field and be more active within an organization 
>> that supported you.
>> I
>> do think all blind people have an interest in achieving true equality 
>> for blind people. However I think for some it is their major life's 
>> work, while for others of us it is something we do when we can around 
>> our other main pursuits. So it makes sense to me that there would be 
>> a large number of people within the NFB that do or want to work in 
>> the blindness field.
>>
>> I've been blind for around 20 years now.  While I do know quite a few 
>> blind people who work in the blindness field, I'd say I know a larger 
>> number who don't.  Perhaps that's because I have never been very 
>> involved in leadership within the NFB.  It does seem that those in 
>> leadership positions do work in the blindness field much more 
>> frequently.  Again that makes sense to me due to their strong 
>> interest and commitment to the cause.
>>
>> Julie
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2/17/2013 11:13 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote:
>>> Ashley,
>>>
>>> Without actual stats, we can't really debate this, but that being 
>>> said, I beg to differ, at least to a degree.
>>>
>>> I don't think anyone here is trying to make generalizations seeing 
>>> as we all are blind, but we are all speaking from our experiences 
>>> and personal observations.
>>>
>>> In the ten years I've been blind, which isn't long compared to some, 
>>> I've met more blind people working in a blindness-related field or 
>>> hoping to be employed in a blindness related field. For every 
>>> lawyer, teacher and computer programmer I've met, I've met ten who 
>>> worked in a job relating to blindness.
>>>
>>> There's nothing wrong with this, and most of us would agree that 
>>> blind people need to be working in these fields, but I also think it 
>>> can become a safety net for some; not all, but many.
>>>
>>> I've been to NFB conventions, and yes, there are people employed in 
>>> various fields, and many scholarship winners plan to, or are, 
>>> pursuing a myriad of career paths, but again, for every one of these 
>>> people I've met, I've met a dozen working in the blindness field. Or 
>>> many of these people end up in a blindness field despite their choice of
degree.
>>>
>>> And having heard several scholarship winners speak at conventions, a 
>>> good number of them hope to work in some way in a blindness field or 
>>> teaching the blind. Again, nothing wrong with this, and we do need 
>>> blind people doing this, but, for me, it shows how many blind people 
>>> go into a blindness related field.
>>>
>>> And in our affiliate, most of the leadership either works in the 
>>> blindness field or hopes too. Of our eleven state board members, 
>>> only two are employed outside of a blindness field, and one is 
>>> working towards a degree so they can work in a blindness job.
>>>
>>> More and more blind people are seeking opportunities outside of a 
>>> blindness related career, but many are still drawn to the field for 
>>> whatever reason. Again, we need strong, competent blind people in 
>>> this field, but we also need to consider what we truly want as a 
>>> person and not a blind person.
>>>
>>> And a side note, I don't think Lynda meant anything negative by her 
>>> comments nor was she implying all blind people work in a blindness 
>>> related field. She was merely detailing her experience and speaking 
>>> to that experience alone.
>>>
>>> Bridgit
>>>
>>> Message: 11
>>> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 22:28:29 -0500
>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett"<bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List"<stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Sending this again: Article 
>>> showingwhatparentsofblindkids are facing 
>>> Message-ID:<D073072BEB3F4E1F938EB6B7A6FF190A at OwnerPC>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; 
>>> reply-type=response
>>>
>>> Lynda,
>>> I beg to differ. Have you been to a nfb convention?
>>> There are people employed in all walks of life and most scholarship 
>>> winners have a career aspiration in a non blindness field; they 
>>> include future teachers, therapists, researchers,  counselors, and 
>>> doctors.
>>> Most blind people I know work either in the IT field as computer 
>>> programmers or in the government, far from the blindness fields! 
>>> Read the braille monitor and you will see the wide variety of fields
too!
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Writers Division web site
>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>> stylist mailing list
>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>> stylist:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/julielj%40neb.rr.
>>> com
>>>
>>>
>>> -----
>>> No virus found in this message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 2012.0.2238 / Virus Database: 2639/5610 - Release Date:
>>> 02/17/13
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site
>> http://www.writers-division.net/
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------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 14:01:40 -0500
From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness
    field
Message-ID: <CAF89F7E28924CCAAECCA40191D4BF6E at Lambert>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
    reply-type=original

Wonderful! My son has his MS in Education Counseling - and works at a high 
school in MD.  -  very good field.

Lynda

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 12:51 PM
Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness field

> Thank you.  I appreciate that.  Yes, I am in school right now.  Masters of
> rehabilitation counseling with a wish to obtain my phd afterwards in
> counseling education.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda 
> Lambert
> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 12:49 PM
> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness field
>
> Excellent if far more desirable than "good."
> Good ends up being Plan B or Plan C.
> Go for EXCELLENT! You are a very sharp young man - go for EXCELLENCE.
>
> Lynda
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 12:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness field
>
>
>> Yeah, I am inclined to agree.  Plan a is usually the best path in the 
>> long
>> run.  Of course, that changes as you gog through your different stages of
>> life.  I would always encourage someone to take your skill set, develop
>> it,
>> then put yourself in the best possible chance to succeed.  I firmly
>> believe
>> in what Jim Brown said.  "You just got to be good."
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda
>> Lambert
>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 12:24 PM
>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness field
>>
>> I recommend the book, "Cockeyed" - which is available through library of
>> congress for the reading machines we have - a teenager who was going
>> blind,
>> and became a professor of English - it is super funny - and yet so
>> enlightening as to the high goals a person can achieve by never settling
>> for
>> Plan B.
>> My advice, is, those who plan for Plan B, end up being there instead of 
>> at
>> Plan A where they really wanted to be.
>> I do not believe in settling for anything less than the absolute desire 
>> of
>> your heart - Plan A is the only acceptable plan in my own life. I am an
>> advid believer in being completely outside the comfort level for as long
>> as
>> it takes to achieve your goals. And, once you are "there" you continue to
>> work your butt off without any excuses.
>> Excellence is the only path worth following.
>>
>> Lynda
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 10:52 AM
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness field
>>
>>
>>> New Braska is all kinds of awesome.  Some states are better than others.
>>> Any field is open, but you may have to move to find it.  Aiwa is another
>>> good state.  Leaving out the venders and customer service reps, no
>>> disrespect to any of the people in those fields, human service or
>>> computer
>>> programming fields followed by professors  and lawyers seem to be where
>>> totals or braille users work.  This is by no means cut and dry, and I am
>>> not
>>> including lo vision applicants, because the better your sight, the more
>>> likely you will be to have a job which is outside of that block of 
>>> fiends
>>> that I just mentioned.  I've met braille users in just about every type
>>> of
>>> career field, but keep in mind that a person who is blind does develop
>>> and
>>> emphasize a slightly different skill set which naturally fits them 
>>> better
>>> to
>>> certain fields.  Going outside of those fields generally speaking, will
>>> force the person to have to constantly perform at a higher level of 
>>> skill
>>> just to have a chance of success.  Of course, that is possible.  But
>>> remember, I am making a basic statement.  Feel free to enlighten me
>>> further.  Remember, I am saying this with the caveat  that anything is
>>> possible, and I have met Blind teachers, mechanics, business owners who
>>> are
>>> not venders, cabinent makers, among others.  Not all of the teachers 
>>> were
>>> teachers of the bisually impaired.  Some taught in standard classroom
>>> formats.  I have heard of blind electricians, met travel agents, there
>>> you
>>> go, travel agent is another field for the blind, and even read the
>>> article
>>> on the blind doctor. I think he is somewhere in canada.
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Robert
>>> Leslie
>>> Newman
>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 9:14 AM
>>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>>> Subject: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness field
>>>
>>> Guys
>>> Back when I started working for the commission for the Blind here in
>>> Nebraska, back in the seventies, our federation had the mindset (this is
>>> a
>>> generalization) that if you as a blind person had one of those jobs, 
>>> then
>>> you were suspect, as in you had gone over to the other side, that of the
>>> enemy! (This was the state of relations between the progressive blind 
>>> and
>>> the rehab services.) Boy, back then, in a NFB chapter around here, you
>>> mostly weren't encouraged to try and become an officer, because it was
>>> feared that you would be a spy for the rehab side, and would be pushing
>>> their (the bad guys) agenda. But --- this all changed. Here in Nebraska
>>> and
>>> in New Mexico and maybe in some other states, the NFB got the bad agency
>>> head folks fired and had a hand in who and what changes had to occur ---
>>> and
>>> so the NFB philosophy got the upper hand. And then, it became respectful
>>> for
>>> NFB members to be part of the rehab scene. (Here in the Omaha chapter we
>>> still have one older member, like in the 80's who doesn't like seeing a
>>> rehab professional being in a leadership position.)
>>>
>>> Think of it, one of the larger and more active NFB Division's is the
>>> Rehabilitation Professionals.
>>>
>>> #2 Taking a serious look at job opportunities for the blind in blind
>>> related
>>> professions --- count up the number of rehab agencies and/or other
>>> services
>>> around the country and add up how many blind folks are working within
>>> them
>>> and I bet that number is not as great as you think!!! Consider, that in
>>> general, the not so good agencies who have low expectations are the ones
>>> that will more than likely hire only a few token blind workers. And the
>>> better rehab services, which are the minority in this nationwide group
>>> that
>>> we are looking at --- sure, they may have more blind guys on staff.
>>> (Nebraska at present has 1 blind related rehab service only. They have a
>>> total staff at the commission that numbers around 55 and 17 are blind.
>>> All
>>> other employed blind people work in a variety of other jobs; Nebraska is
>>> one
>>> of the better states for employment of the blind and there are a bunch 
>>> of
>>> folks that are doing all kinds of jobs.) So watch that thought of yours,
>>> that there are a big number of blind folks working in blind related
>>> jobs ---
>>> for either reason of- A. That is where they are accepted. Or B. That it
>>> is
>>> the job that the blind think of first as to what they can do.
>>>
>>> (Just my rambling for this morning.)
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J.
>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 7:08 AM
>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Working in blindness field
>>>
>>> Bridget,
>>>
>>> Could it be that more of the state board members and generally more
>>> really
>>> active members of the NFB are working in the blindness field because
>>> blindness is their passion?It makes sense to me that if promoting
>>> opportunities for blind people was your life's mission that you'd work 
>>> in
>>> that field and be more active within an organization that supported you.
>>> I
>>> do think all blind people have an interest in achieving true equality 
>>> for
>>> blind people. However I think for some it is their major life's work,
>>> while
>>> for others of us it is something we do when we can around our other main
>>> pursuits. So it makes sense to me that there would be a large number of
>>> people within the NFB that do or want to work in the blindness field.
>>>
>>> I've been blind for around 20 years now.  While I do know quite a few
>>> blind
>>> people who work in the blindness field, I'd say I know a larger number
>>> who
>>> don't.  Perhaps that's because I have never been very involved in
>>> leadership
>>> within the NFB.  It does seem that those in leadership positions do work
>>> in
>>> the blindness field much more frequently.  Again that makes sense to me
>>> due
>>> to their strong interest and commitment to the cause.
>>>
>>> Julie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/17/2013 11:13 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote:
>>>> Ashley,
>>>>
>>>> Without actual stats, we can't really debate this, but that being
>>>> said, I beg to differ, at least to a degree.
>>>>
>>>> I don't think anyone here is trying to make generalizations seeing as
>>>> we all are blind, but we are all speaking from our experiences and
>>>> personal observations.
>>>>
>>>> In the ten years I've been blind, which isn't long compared to some,
>>>> I've met more blind people working in a blindness-related field or
>>>> hoping to be employed in a blindness related field. For every lawyer,
>>>> teacher and computer programmer I've met, I've met ten who worked in a
>>>> job relating to blindness.
>>>>
>>>> There's nothing wrong with this, and most of us would agree that blind
>>>> people need to be working in these fields, but I also think it can
>>>> become a safety net for some; not all, but many.
>>>>
>>>> I've been to NFB conventions, and yes, there are people employed in
>>>> various fields, and many scholarship winners plan to, or are, pursuing
>>>> a myriad of career paths, but again, for every one of these people
>>>> I've met, I've met a dozen working in the blindness field. Or many of
>>>> these people end up in a blindness field despite their choice of 
>>>> degree.
>>>>
>>>> And having heard several scholarship winners speak at conventions, a
>>>> good number of them hope to work in some way in a blindness field or
>>>> teaching the blind. Again, nothing wrong with this, and we do need
>>>> blind people doing this, but, for me, it shows how many blind people
>>>> go into a blindness related field.
>>>>
>>>> And in our affiliate, most of the leadership either works in the
>>>> blindness field or hopes too. Of our eleven state board members, only
>>>> two are employed outside of a blindness field, and one is working
>>>> towards a degree so they can work in a blindness job.
>>>>
>>>> More and more blind people are seeking opportunities outside of a
>>>> blindness related career, but many are still drawn to the field for
>>>> whatever reason. Again, we need strong, competent blind people in this
>>>> field, but we also need to consider what we truly want as a person and
>>>> not a blind person.
>>>>
>>>> And a side note, I don't think Lynda meant anything negative by her
>>>> comments nor was she implying all blind people work in a blindness
>>>> related field. She was merely detailing her experience and speaking to
>>>> that experience alone.
>>>>
>>>> Bridgit
>>>>
>>>> Message: 11
>>>> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 22:28:29 -0500
>>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett"<bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List"<stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Sending this again: Article
>>>> showingwhatparentsofblindkids are facing
>>>> Message-ID:<D073072BEB3F4E1F938EB6B7A6FF190A at OwnerPC>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>>> reply-type=response
>>>>
>>>> Lynda,
>>>> I beg to differ. Have you been to a nfb convention?
>>>> There are people employed in all walks of life and most scholarship
>>>> winners have a career aspiration in a non blindness field; they
>>>> include future teachers, therapists, researchers,  counselors, and
>>>> doctors.
>>>> Most blind people I know work either in the IT field as computer
>>>> programmers or in the government, far from the blindness fields! Read
>>>> the braille monitor and you will see the wide variety of fields too!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
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>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> stylist:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/julielj%40neb.rr.
>>>> com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----
>>>> No virus found in this message.
>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>> Version: 2012.0.2238 / Virus Database: 2639/5610 - Release Date:
>>>> 02/17/13
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
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>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
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>> .net
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
> _______________________________________________
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------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 14:27:03 -0500
From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness
    field
Message-ID: <EDE6E4B470404D849359C6124864132F at Lambert>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
    reply-type=original

Donna,
Wow, you perked up my memory, too. yes, it was that same dexterity test that 
I took, with pegs and holes. But, being the obsessive compulsive and over 
achiever that I am, well, I aced it! Therefore, I was "pegged" to be put 
into the proper hole for my future good.  lol  It was the law that they had 
to give those tests to students, and they had to have a meeting with every 
student at least one time  during the 4 years of high school. My meeting 
took place after the test was given, just before I graduated - so it would 
be "legal."

The other criteria that I see on looking back on all this stuff is that only 
the kids from professional backgrounds at home (their parents), were marked 
for going on to college. The rest, were pegged for manual labor in a 
factory, despite intelligence testing.  Children who came from the blue 
collar families were seldom, and I do mean very seldom, ever encouraged to 
even think of anything else.  Marginalization really begins in the earliest 
years of life - and it still does - and that has far more to do with 
economic issues than it does a disability issue.

My daughter is the librarian of a very FANCY and elite new school..  Of the 
600 students who are there, all but 40 of those students come from fairly 
wealthy families and are "entitled" - she asked me recently, "Do you think 
those 40 children do not stand out like a sore thumb? "  When they have a 
book fair, many of those children have a "budget" of about $50. to spend on 
books that day.  The other 40 children come up to her with some small change 
in their hand and ask if there is anything they can buy with it!  Not only 
are they children who are completely out of place in the economic picture, 
they are really denied basic rights to even own a book because they have no 
money to buy one. (She is creating some clever ways to get books into their 
hands anyway, but it will be at her own expense.)

I do believe that no matter how marginalized people with blindness feel, 
there are zillions of others who are also marginalized  as well by our 
education system, and uncaring entitled class.

In the small rural town where I live, over 42 percent of the children in our 
school district are children from below the poverty line.  Their parents, 
for the most part, are the "working poor." They work 2 jobs each, and 
therefore the children are left to fend for themselves because Mom and Dad 
are working day and night just to survive. I don't think we can be very 
optimistic about the future of that 42 percent here, do you?  Just makes me 
sick.
Lynda

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Donna Hill" <penatwork at epix.net>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 1:11 PM
Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness field

> Lynda,
> You bring up one of those similarities I'm always talking about between 
> the
> blindness movement and other civil rights movements. Years ago, the normal
> perception of women did not include much in the way of  career-readiness.
> Sure, women had to work in factories in WWII to support the war effort, 
> but
> as for careers, you could teach or be a nurse; that was about it. The
> underlying message was that when it came to what was best for women, men
> knew best . Fortunately, we have come a long way, baby!
>
> The whole erasers on pencils thing has dredged up another memory. When I 
> was
> in junior high, they made me take a test of my manual dexterity, which I
> didn't think at the time was something that other kids got. . It involved
> putting pegs into holes on a board -- literally the square peg in the 
> round
> hole kind of thing. I was overpowered by the impression that, if I did 
> well
> on this test, they would push me into manual labor of some sort. I didn't
> know what I could do, but I knew I wasn't having fantasies about putting
> pegs in holes, so I "threw" the test -- figuratively speaking.
>
> I had a hard time with setting goals, because on some level I believed 
> that
> I couldn't do anything. I had secret dreams of what I'd like to do, but
> there was a real disconnect between that and having a plan. The thing that
> kept me going was the knowledge that, whatever anyone else said or how 
> true
> it was, I didn't want those things to be true. That's really all I had.
> Goals came later. My somewhat cynical version of the Plan A thing is that 
> if
> you strive for Plan A, you might not make it, but you might make plan B. 
> If
> you don't strive for plan A, you're not even going to make plan B.
> Donna
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda 
> Lambert
> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 12:47 PM
> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness field
>
> Donna,
> You might have been putting erasers in pencils - OMG!
> Can you envision yourself in such a place? Never!
> You are living proof of seeking out a goal that is a passion and going for
> it.
>
> When I graduated from high school, in the dark ages of course, I as told 
> by
> the counselor that I had really good hand and eye coordination, so I 
> should
> work our very well in a factory assembly line. Never mind that my IQ was
> already beyond that of a college graduate - no, I should apply for a 
> laborer
> job. OMG. I would have been fired very quickly from such a job as I would
> have been there daydreaming and imagining and I would have either had a 
> bad
> accident, or caused the entire place to be in shut down mode from 
> something
> stupid I would have done.
>
> I could not do any kind of repetitive activity for even a day - probably 
> not
> even for an hour, really.  I really had a good laugh at the thought of you
> doing the erasers, but then, that isn't really funny when you follow it to
> it's end, is it?
>
>
> When my students would sit down with me and we would discuss their 
> schedule
> and their plans for a major, I told them to never settle for anything 
> other
> than what they have a passion for - because if they do, in mid-life they
> will be longing for the thing they wanted in the first place - and so many
> people at mid-life are so unhappy with the life they created for 
> themselves.
>
> Even if they are financially successful, the failure to pursue their dream
> is still with them. I have seen this many times.
>
>
> Lynda
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Donna Hill" <penatwork at epix.net>
> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 12:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness field
>
>
>> Good advice.
>> Donna
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda
>> Lambert
>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 12:24 PM
>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness field
>>
>> I recommend the book, "Cockeyed" - which is available through library of
>> congress for the reading machines we have - a teenager who was going
>> blind,
>> and became a professor of English - it is super funny - and yet so
>> enlightening as to the high goals a person can achieve by never settling
>> for
>> Plan B.
>> My advice, is, those who plan for Plan B, end up being there instead of 
>> at
>> Plan A where they really wanted to be.
>> I do not believe in settling for anything less than the absolute desire 
>> of
>> your heart - Plan A is the only acceptable plan in my own life. I am an
>> advid believer in being completely outside the comfort level for as long
>> as
>> it takes to achieve your goals. And, once you are "there" you continue to
>> work your butt off without any excuses.
>> Excellence is the only path worth following.
>>
>> Lynda
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 10:52 AM
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness field
>>
>>
>>> New Braska is all kinds of awesome.  Some states are better than others.
>>> Any field is open, but you may have to move to find it.  Aiwa is another
>>> good state.  Leaving out the venders and customer service reps, no
>>> disrespect to any of the people in those fields, human service or
>>> computer
>>> programming fields followed by professors  and lawyers seem to be where
>>> totals or braille users work.  This is by no means cut and dry, and I am
>>> not
>>> including lo vision applicants, because the better your sight, the more
>>> likely you will be to have a job which is outside of that block of 
>>> fiends
>>> that I just mentioned.  I've met braille users in just about every type
>>> of
>>> career field, but keep in mind that a person who is blind does develop
>>> and
>>> emphasize a slightly different skill set which naturally fits them 
>>> better
>>> to
>>> certain fields.  Going outside of those fields generally speaking, will
>>> force the person to have to constantly perform at a higher level of 
>>> skill
>>> just to have a chance of success.  Of course, that is possible.  But
>>> remember, I am making a basic statement.  Feel free to enlighten me
>>> further.  Remember, I am saying this with the caveat  that anything is
>>> possible, and I have met Blind teachers, mechanics, business owners who
>>> are
>>> not venders, cabinent makers, among others.  Not all of the teachers 
>>> were
>>> teachers of the bisually impaired.  Some taught in standard classroom
>>> formats.  I have heard of blind electricians, met travel agents, there
>>> you
>>> go, travel agent is another field for the blind, and even read the
>>> article
>>> on the blind doctor. I think he is somewhere in canada.
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Robert
>>> Leslie
>>> Newman
>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 9:14 AM
>>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>>> Subject: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness field
>>>
>>> Guys
>>> Back when I started working for the commission for the Blind here in
>>> Nebraska, back in the seventies, our federation had the mindset (this is
>>> a
>>> generalization) that if you as a blind person had one of those jobs, 
>>> then
>>> you were suspect, as in you had gone over to the other side, that of the
>>> enemy! (This was the state of relations between the progressive blind 
>>> and
>>> the rehab services.) Boy, back then, in a NFB chapter around here, you
>>> mostly weren't encouraged to try and become an officer, because it was
>>> feared that you would be a spy for the rehab side, and would be pushing
>>> their (the bad guys) agenda. But --- this all changed. Here in Nebraska
>>> and
>>> in New Mexico and maybe in some other states, the NFB got the bad agency
>>> head folks fired and had a hand in who and what changes had to occur ---
>>> and
>>> so the NFB philosophy got the upper hand. And then, it became respectful
>>> for
>>> NFB members to be part of the rehab scene. (Here in the Omaha chapter we
>>> still have one older member, like in the 80's who doesn't like seeing a
>>> rehab professional being in a leadership position.)
>>>
>>> Think of it, one of the larger and more active NFB Division's is the
>>> Rehabilitation Professionals.
>>>
>>> #2 Taking a serious look at job opportunities for the blind in blind
>>> related
>>> professions --- count up the number of rehab agencies and/or other
>>> services
>>> around the country and add up how many blind folks are working within
>>> them
>>> and I bet that number is not as great as you think!!! Consider, that in
>>> general, the not so good agencies who have low expectations are the ones
>>> that will more than likely hire only a few token blind workers. And the
>>> better rehab services, which are the minority in this nationwide group
>>> that
>>> we are looking at --- sure, they may have more blind guys on staff.
>>> (Nebraska at present has 1 blind related rehab service only. They have a
>>> total staff at the commission that numbers around 55 and 17 are blind.
>>> All
>>> other employed blind people work in a variety of other jobs; Nebraska is
>>> one
>>> of the better states for employment of the blind and there are a bunch 
>>> of
>>> folks that are doing all kinds of jobs.) So watch that thought of yours,
>>> that there are a big number of blind folks working in blind related
>>> jobs ---
>>> for either reason of- A. That is where they are accepted. Or B. That it
>>> is
>>> the job that the blind think of first as to what they can do.
>>>
>>> (Just my rambling for this morning.)
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J.
>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 7:08 AM
>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Working in blindness field
>>>
>>> Bridget,
>>>
>>> Could it be that more of the state board members and generally more
>>> really
>>> active members of the NFB are working in the blindness field because
>>> blindness is their passion?It makes sense to me that if promoting
>>> opportunities for blind people was your life's mission that you'd work 
>>> in
>>> that field and be more active within an organization that supported you.
>>> I
>>> do think all blind people have an interest in achieving true equality 
>>> for
>>> blind people. However I think for some it is their major life's work,
>>> while
>>> for others of us it is something we do when we can around our other main
>>> pursuits. So it makes sense to me that there would be a large number of
>>> people within the NFB that do or want to work in the blindness field.
>>>
>>> I've been blind for around 20 years now.  While I do know quite a few
>>> blind
>>> people who work in the blindness field, I'd say I know a larger number
>>> who
>>> don't.  Perhaps that's because I have never been very involved in
>>> leadership
>>> within the NFB.  It does seem that those in leadership positions do work
>>> in
>>> the blindness field much more frequently.  Again that makes sense to me
>>> due
>>> to their strong interest and commitment to the cause.
>>>
>>> Julie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/17/2013 11:13 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote:
>>>> Ashley,
>>>>
>>>> Without actual stats, we can't really debate this, but that being
>>>> said, I beg to differ, at least to a degree.
>>>>
>>>> I don't think anyone here is trying to make generalizations seeing as
>>>> we all are blind, but we are all speaking from our experiences and
>>>> personal observations.
>>>>
>>>> In the ten years I've been blind, which isn't long compared to some,
>>>> I've met more blind people working in a blindness-related field or
>>>> hoping to be employed in a blindness related field. For every lawyer,
>>>> teacher and computer programmer I've met, I've met ten who worked in a
>>>> job relating to blindness.
>>>>
>>>> There's nothing wrong with this, and most of us would agree that blind
>>>> people need to be working in these fields, but I also think it can
>>>> become a safety net for some; not all, but many.
>>>>
>>>> I've been to NFB conventions, and yes, there are people employed in
>>>> various fields, and many scholarship winners plan to, or are, pursuing
>>>> a myriad of career paths, but again, for every one of these people
>>>> I've met, I've met a dozen working in the blindness field. Or many of
>>>> these people end up in a blindness field despite their choice of 
>>>> degree.
>>>>
>>>> And having heard several scholarship winners speak at conventions, a
>>>> good number of them hope to work in some way in a blindness field or
>>>> teaching the blind. Again, nothing wrong with this, and we do need
>>>> blind people doing this, but, for me, it shows how many blind people
>>>> go into a blindness related field.
>>>>
>>>> And in our affiliate, most of the leadership either works in the
>>>> blindness field or hopes too. Of our eleven state board members, only
>>>> two are employed outside of a blindness field, and one is working
>>>> towards a degree so they can work in a blindness job.
>>>>
>>>> More and more blind people are seeking opportunities outside of a
>>>> blindness related career, but many are still drawn to the field for
>>>> whatever reason. Again, we need strong, competent blind people in this
>>>> field, but we also need to consider what we truly want as a person and
>>>> not a blind person.
>>>>
>>>> And a side note, I don't think Lynda meant anything negative by her
>>>> comments nor was she implying all blind people work in a blindness
>>>> related field. She was merely detailing her experience and speaking to
>>>> that experience alone.
>>>>
>>>> Bridgit
>>>>
>>>> Message: 11
>>>> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 22:28:29 -0500
>>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett"<bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List"<stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Sending this again: Article
>>>> showingwhatparentsofblindkids are facing
>>>> Message-ID:<D073072BEB3F4E1F938EB6B7A6FF190A at OwnerPC>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>>> reply-type=response
>>>>
>>>> Lynda,
>>>> I beg to differ. Have you been to a nfb convention?
>>>> There are people employed in all walks of life and most scholarship
>>>> winners have a career aspiration in a non blindness field; they
>>>> include future teachers, therapists, researchers,  counselors, and
>>>> doctors.
>>>> Most blind people I know work either in the IT field as computer
>>>> programmers or in the government, far from the blindness fields! Read
>>>> the braille monitor and you will see the wide variety of fields too!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> stylist:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/julielj%40neb.rr.
>>>> com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----
>>>> No virus found in this message.
>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>> Version: 2012.0.2238 / Virus Database: 2639/5610 - Release Date:
>>>> 02/17/13
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Writers Division web site
>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>> stylist mailing list
>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> stylist:
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>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Writers Division web site
>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>> stylist mailing list
>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> stylist:
>>>
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmai
>>> l.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Writers Division web site
>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>> stylist mailing list
>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> stylist:
>>>
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet
>> .net
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site
>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>> stylist mailing list
>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> stylist:
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>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site
>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>> stylist mailing list
>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> stylist:
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet
> .net
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site
> http://www.writers-division.net/
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> stylist:
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site
> http://www.writers-division.net/
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> stylist:
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> 

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 13:42:54 -0600
From: "Barbara Hammel" <poetlori8 at msn.com>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] a RANT
Message-ID: <SNT139-ds21A0BBDE881A633A9E2275EBF40 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
    reply-type=response

I agree with Chris.  Those lines were the same that jumped out at me.

When you mention about the tantrum and the horn, it makes me think of the 
book "The Last Unicorn".

Barbara

Poetry is an echo, asking a shadow to dance. -- Carl Sandburg
-----Original Message----- 
From: Chris Kuell
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 8:15 AM
To: Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [stylist] a RANT

Linda,

I enjoyed reading your rant poem. I especially like the lines:
They waited above the fractured waterfall.  In winter, the Niagara
is a frozen concrete lexicon, stacked to the apex with words.
and:
It spilled out, wet, blue ink all over the pristine white
pages. Splashing rude jagged, painful, condescending showers.

Great imagery there.

chris

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 3:16 PM
Subject: Re: [stylist] a RANT

I began writing the RANT poem about a year ago. I got it out and have spent
the entire day on it - tweaking and refining it.
Here it is, since it is a Sestina RANT, I attached it so it retains the
form.

Lynda Lambert
104 River Road
Ellwood City, PA 16117

724 758 4979

My Blog:  http://www.walkingbyinnervision.blogspot.com
My Website:  http://lyndalambert.com

_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site
http://www.writers-division.net/
stylist mailing list
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
stylist:
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------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 13:51:00 -0600
From: Bridgit Pollpeter <bpollpeter at hotmail.com>
To: <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [stylist] Definition of blindness
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP477C6229425D1B43F30F9B2C4F40 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

But we don't need to be defined or boxed in to choose tools and methods.
Labels like this tend to create, and perpetuate, a hierarchy of
blindness. If blind, whatever the level, you are aware of the situation
and what you need to do. To label you type of vision loss just places an
unnecessary distinction in my book. What does a formal definition or
label do in terms of tools and methods? In most situations, these labels
are what box us in such as low vision students being denied Braille
education or cane travel. It says visually impaired seniors don't need
alternative skills training. It denies services and alternative skills
training to a lot of people because of this label. You have low vision
so you can strain to use that vision. You are totally blind so you don't
need education because you have little opportunities. I don't want to be
known as the blind girl; I just want to be the girl with a talent, with
a personality, with an opinion... Labels do nothing to bring equality.

Bridgit
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 23:58:23 -0500
From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Definition of blindness
Message-ID: <008901ce0ccb$6a3d9c00$3eb8d400$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"

Yeah it actually might.  You should want to know as much about yourself
as possible.  When experts can't give you an answer that's kind of
pathetic. It is good she knows how much she can use what limited sight
she has.  Use every tool in the tool box, but always use the best tool
for the job.

------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 14:09:58 -0600
From: Bridgit Pollpeter <bpollpeter at hotmail.com>
To: <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [stylist] Working in blindness field
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP4157DF953F93DD25829FE45C4F40 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Julie,

First, I'm not saying this is a bad thing. Without fellow blind people
working in the field, we have little chance of continuing to develop a
voice ensuring fair treatment and equal opportunities for the blind.

Second, yes, many people are passionate about blindness awareness, and
this is a good thing. This is often why people get involved in
leadership roles. But we don't all have to follow this path and work in
a blindness related field. I'm extremely passionate about advocacy and
education for blind issues, but I don't work in a blindness field. I've
been involved in various leadership roles in the Federation, but I also
have a desire to live a life outside of blindness. As passionate as I am
about furthering the goals of the Federation, I have interests, hobbies
and dreams in other areas of life.

And I will admit something here: In the years I've been involved with
the Federation, I feel very little has been done, especially in my
region, to promote and advocate for blind issues. I've done more
independent of the Federation to enact change and educate the public
about blindness. No NFB connections acquired me these opportunities, but
I found these opportunities out in the world living my life, being apart
of things other than the Federation and blindness.

We all have our own goals and dreams. We must follow whatever path we
feel is best for us. I just challenge all blind people to truly consider
their talents, abilities and dreams. Some people belong in a blindness
field and it's their true calling, but I also believe many choose this
route because it seems like the popular choice, or an initial passion
developed during training makes them feel inspired to work with fellow
blind people in hopes to give them an equal fervor, but eventually lose
steam only to find they are already in this chosen fieldor it's simply a
safety net.

I just want blind people to realize they can do anything they put their
mind too. That limitations are a human invention, and that we can
participate in any area of life we desire. It may take some
brainstorming and developing of tools and methods, but most things are
possible especially in todays world.

Bridgit
Message: 10
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 07:08:09 -0600
From: "Julie J." <julielj at neb.rr.com>
To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Working in blindness field
Message-ID: <512227B9.3040109 at neb.rr.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Bridget,

Could it be that more of the state board members and generally more 
really active members of the NFB are working in the blindness field 
because blindness is their passion?It makes sense to me that if 
promoting opportunities for blind people was your life's mission that 
you'd work in that field and be more active within an organization that 
supported you.  I do think all blind people have an interest in 
achieving true equality for blind people. However I think for some it is

their major life's work, while for others of us it is something we do 
when we can around our other main pursuits. So it makes sense to me that

there would be a large number of people within the NFB that do or want 
to work in the blindness field.

I've been blind for around 20 years now.  While I do know quite a few 
blind people who work in the blindness field, I'd say I know a larger 
number who don't.  Perhaps that's because I have never been very 
involved in leadership within the NFB.  It does seem that those in 
leadership positions do work in the blindness field much more 
frequently.  Again that makes sense to me due to their strong interest 
and commitment to the cause.

Julie

------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 14:16:11 -0600
From: Bridgit Pollpeter <bpollpeter at hotmail.com>
To: <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [stylist] Definition of blindness
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP21656EE04403E05EE284B7EC4F40 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Amen, sista, LOL!

Bridgit
Message: 19
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 10:25:58 -0500
From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Definition of blindness
Message-ID: <D3BF295C75534C31AB0A465754B2179A at Lambert>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
    reply-type=original

This is my thought, too!
Is there some kind of litnus test we must take to be part of the group?
And, must the group itself be broken down into little squares on a grid?
Creating various definitions for each of us only serves to fratgment us
more 
than we already might be.
We have a common bond in that we all have situations to deal with due to

various eye conditions. I think we can just be who we are without
labels, 
don't you?
Lynda

------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 16:35:40 -0500
From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Definition of blindness
Message-ID: <09710ED297144346BBA1D197CACB0AD3 at Lambert>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
    reply-type=original

this is so accurate.
Two years ago I was connected to a lady who needed help due to sight loss.
When I contacted her, she told me she didn't need help because she was not 
"legally blind."  She told me she was not "ready to go there." I just gave 
her my information and told her if at any time she needed my help, just 
contact me.
In about a year, I got an urgent email from this woman. She lamented she 
cannot read the labels in her gallery (she is an art gallery owner), could 
not see to do the book work, use the computer, cannot read the box 
directions to bake a cake, and cannot read a book to her grandson - she was 
really frantic at this point.
Again, she told me she could not have any help because she is not "legally 
blind." I told her that is not true (and I knew with her description of 
problems she was certainly lower than the label of legally blind would be.

I contacted the district rehab. for help in knowing what to do. It was not 
long before she finally made that phone call, and help was on the way. That 
was last fall.
She just sent me an email this week - talking about how happy she is to be 
able to run her business all by herself, and she can even paint again with 
the help of an Acrobat.  Her life is now much better and she feels more in 
control.

Because someone had somehow put a label on her, even though it was a wrong 
one, she would have never had the help she needed.  Putting labels on things 
just creates so many more problems for us all.

If you watch the Rita Dove video I sent out for our discussion on Sunday 
night, you will hear her talk about these very same things that she 
experienced as a very young school child.  Rita Dove was labeled in 2nd 
grade by another little girl who she thought was her friend - lables can 
come from anywhere at any time, and they are not always put on us by 
professionals in the filed.

Lynda

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" <bpollpeter at hotmail.com>
To: <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 2:51 PM
Subject: [stylist] Definition of blindness

> But we don't need to be defined or boxed in to choose tools and methods.
> Labels like this tend to create, and perpetuate, a hierarchy of
> blindness. If blind, whatever the level, you are aware of the situation
> and what you need to do. To label you type of vision loss just places an
> unnecessary distinction in my book. What does a formal definition or
> label do in terms of tools and methods? In most situations, these labels
> are what box us in such as low vision students being denied Braille
> education or cane travel. It says visually impaired seniors don't need
> alternative skills training. It denies services and alternative skills
> training to a lot of people because of this label. You have low vision
> so you can strain to use that vision. You are totally blind so you don't
> need education because you have little opportunities. I don't want to be
> known as the blind girl; I just want to be the girl with a talent, with
> a personality, with an opinion... Labels do nothing to bring equality.
>
> Bridgit
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 23:58:23 -0500
> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Definition of blindness
> Message-ID: <008901ce0ccb$6a3d9c00$3eb8d400$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Yeah it actually might.  You should want to know as much about yourself
> as possible.  When experts can't give you an answer that's kind of
> pathetic. It is good she knows how much she can use what limited sight
> she has.  Use every tool in the tool box, but always use the best tool
> for the job.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site
> http://www.writers-division.net/
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> stylist:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet.net
> 

------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 16:38:13 -0500
From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] a RANT
Message-ID: <BC5CC9B36C424D689E456B4A1E0D0B0B at Lambert>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
    reply-type=response

I don't know the book. Can you tell me more about it?

Lynda

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Barbara Hammel" <poetlori8 at msn.com>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 2:42 PM
Subject: Re: [stylist] a RANT

>I agree with Chris.  Those lines were the same that jumped out at me.
>
> When you mention about the tantrum and the horn, it makes me think of the 
> book "The Last Unicorn".
>
> Barbara
>
>
>
> Poetry is an echo, asking a shadow to dance. -- Carl Sandburg
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Chris Kuell
> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 8:15 AM
> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [stylist] a RANT
>
> Linda,
>
> I enjoyed reading your rant poem. I especially like the lines:
> They waited above the fractured waterfall.  In winter, the Niagara
> is a frozen concrete lexicon, stacked to the apex with words.
> and:
> It spilled out, wet, blue ink all over the pristine white
> pages. Splashing rude jagged, painful, condescending showers.
>
> Great imagery there.
>
> chris
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 3:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [stylist] a RANT
>
>
> I began writing the RANT poem about a year ago. I got it out and have 
> spent
> the entire day on it - tweaking and refining it.
> Here it is, since it is a Sestina RANT, I attached it so it retains the
> form.
>
> Lynda Lambert
> 104 River Road
> Ellwood City, PA 16117
>
> 724 758 4979
>
> My Blog:  http://www.walkingbyinnervision.blogspot.com
> My Website:  http://lyndalambert.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site
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>
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> 

------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 19:38:21 -0500
From: Anita Ogletree <yrstrli at gmail.com>
To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Braille
Message-ID: <5122c96a.8cf93a0a.01a9.3281 at mx.google.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed

Hi.  My name is Anita.
How much are you asking and would you be willing to make some 
arrangements for payments?

> ----- Original Message -----
>From: "Homme, James" <james.homme at highmark.com
>To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 12:21:12 +0000
>Subject: Re: [stylist] Braille

>Hi Everyone,
>I've been off the list for a long time, and am back again.

>Speaking of Braille, If anyone would want a PowerBraille65, or 
knows someone who wants one, I have a refurbished unit that would 
like a good home.  I have both the serial and parallel cables.  
We could talk about price.  I also have the original box, but no 
longer have the original manuals.  The unit was refurbished and 
sent to me in January.  Since then, it has been stored in a 
dust-free location.

>Thanks.

>Jim

>-----Original Message-----
>From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Ashley Bramlett
>Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 5:04 PM
>To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [stylist] Braille

>Hi,
>I think braille has been real valuable to me in learning to read 
and
>learning; I always study in braille reading my braille notes on 
the Braille
>Note.
>I also agree that jumbo braille is harder to grasp.
>As a community we have to keep advocating for braille so it won't 
go away.

>Ashley

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Donna Hill
>Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 9:31 PM
>To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>Subject: Re: [stylist] Braille

>Vejas,
>It reminds me of my experience with large print.  They thought it 
would be
>easier for me to see, but my visual field was so restricted that 
I could see
>even less at a time of the bigger words.  Since I was already 
piecing words
>together, the step to large print was a real problem.
>Donna

>-----Original Message-----
>From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
vejas
>Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 6:53 PM
>To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [stylist] Braille

>Hi.
>Yes, jumbo Braille and very small Braille are very hard to read.
>It deffinetly baffles my sighted peers when they see that I can't 
read the
>jumbo Braille, because they're like, "It's Braille."
>There's a huge difference between the 2.
>Vejas

>----- Original Message -----
>From: Bridgit Pollpeter <bpollpeter at hotmail.com
>To: <stylist at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 15:29:34 -0600
>Subject: [stylist] Braille

>Jackie,

>I don't believe jumbo Braille is accessible as regular Braille.
>I
>actually have found jumbo Braille to be even more tedious than
>regular
>Braille.  I can feel the raised dots but have problems
>distinguishing the
>characters.

>There are different types of neuropathy, and yes, it can affect
>anyone.
>After the unknown viral infection, pneumonia and uraceptis hit
>me, which
>is what caused my blindness, it also affected other areas of my
>health.
>I since have developed neuropathy, tachycardia (which is an
>accelerated
>heart rate) and my already low blood pressure will suffer
>episodes of
>dangerously low numbers.  And I'm only 31.

>Like you, I find Braille a unique way in which to explore letters
>and
>words.  They say you use your visual part of the brain to learn
>Braille,
>and I definitely visualize the letters and characters in my head.
>When I
>was first learning Braille and computer with JAWS, I would have
>problems
>typing quickly since I kept visualizing Braille as opposed to the
>actual
>letters, and for me, this would trip me up, grin.

>Braille is a crucial and vital tool for blind people though, and
>I know
>a few people with severe dyslexia who have experimented with
>learning
>Braille, and it seems to help.  It's scary to think people,
>including
>blind people, want and believe Braille is becoming obsolete.  I
>know this
>is a huge issue that sparks a lot of debates and contraversy ,
>but also
>remember that print, to an extent, is in danger of changing as
>well.  My
>mom has been a teacher for 16 years, and she says in public
>schools they
>use computers and other screen devices like tablets in which to
>teach
>instead of good old pencil and paper.  Kids are learning to read
>and
>write on computers, and you have to wonder what will be the
>outcome for
>removing tactile sensations from society.

>Okay, this has turned into a rant, smile.

>Sincerely,
>Bridgit Kuenning-Pollpeter, editor, Slate & Style
>Read my blog at:
>http://blogs.livewellnebraska.com/author/bpollpeter/

>"If we discover a desire within us that nothing in this world can
>satisfy, we should begin to wonder if perhaps we were created for
>another world."
>C.  S.  Lewis

>Message: 8
>Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 17:33:28 -0700
>From: "Jacqueline Williams" <jackieleepoet at cox.net
>To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org
>Subject: Re: [stylist] Braille
>Message-ID: <BC1706CDDEBA44648FAD3846D4233DEA at JackiLeePoet
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>Bridgit,
>I did not know that this neuropathy hit any but the older among
>us.  I
>did label all the folders in my file in Braille, but can no
>longer read
>it.  I am not only a promoter of Braille for the Blind, I truly
>feel it
>ought to be on the general curriculum.  My reasons may appear
>strange,
>but never have I internalized the structure of words as I did
>when
>learning the advanced words.  In retrospect, I felt it would have
>helped
>my learning disabled students.  When you feel the letters and
>also
>visualize them, it works wonders for memory.  I an thing of all
>of the
>prefixes, suffixes, short cuts, etc.  There is so much of value.
>My grandson, then 5 when I was practicing it, picked it up so
>fast, and
>was so enthusiastic, that I wished it had been something
>regularly
>studied in his "seeing" classroom.  They do not publish anything
>in jumbo
>Braille, and I do not know that it is even available on your
>Braille
>readers.  Thanks for your response.  Jackie

>_______________________________________________
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>stylist:
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epix.net

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for
>stylist:
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40earthlink.net

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40highmark.com

>________________________________

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ail.com

------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:05:24 -0500
From: Anita Ogletree <yrstrli at gmail.com>
To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Definition of blindness
Message-ID: <5122cfbd.b21d340a.22ef.ffff9a56 at mx.google.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed

Actually, it doesn't.  The only time I ever think but is when 
someone asks am I legally blind.
Anita

> ----- Original Message -----
>From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net
>To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 10:25:58 -0500
>Subject: Re: [stylist] Definition of blindness

>This is my thought, too!
>Is there some kind of litnus test we must take to be part of the 
group?
>And, must the group itself be broken down into little squares on 
a grid?
>Creating various definitions for each of us only serves to 
fratgment us more
>than we already might be.
>We have a common bond in that we all have situations to deal with 
due to
>various eye conditions.  I think we can just be who we are 
without labels,
>don't you?
>Lynda

>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" <bpollpeter at hotmail.com
>To: <stylist at nfbnet.org
>Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 11:53 PM
>Subject: [stylist] Definition of blindness

>> Anita,

>> Does it matter?

>> Bridgit
>> Message: 8
>> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 20:21:43 -0500
>> From: Anita Ogletree <yrstrli at gmail.com
>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Sending this again: Article
>> showingwhatparentsofblind kids are facing
>> Message-ID: <5121823f.467b3a0a.1275.ffffa94c at mx.google.com
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed

>> There are three separate categories for which individuls without
>> sight are identified: totally blind, legally blind and visually
>> impaired.  Totally blind--if I understand correctly--are those
>> who have no light perception.
>> Visually impaired are those persons who are able to use
>> magnifying devices to enlarge printed documents, etc.  What
>> exactly does the term "legally blind" mean?
>> I was told all of my life that I am totally blind but I have
>> light perception.  I see objects but no shapes.  Every now and
>> then I can guess a particular color depending on how the 
lighting
>> in a room is.  I am able to tell when people are walking by me
>> when they are only a couple feet in front of me and I can do 
that
>> if I am sitting in a parked car or some other place.  I can see
>> the shadows of trees, poles, buildings and so on when I look out
>> of the window of a car.
>> My question is this: what category would I fit into? My optic
>> nerve is damaged so the medical terminology is optic atrophyddI
>> ask this because the so-called "experts" have not been able to
>> give me an answer.

>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site
>> http://www.writers-division.net/
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info for
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>> 
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oominternet.net

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ail.com

------------------------------

Message: 14
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 21:47:21 -0500
From: "Donna Hill" <penatwork at epix.net>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness
    field
Message-ID: <53130C8156D84A26B96DD5692BF79D0C at OwnerHP>
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"

Lynda,
Yes, there are many marginalized kids and adults in this world, and with
the recession more than before. It is enfuriating when you think of the
"privileged" and how much they take for granted and how they have
insullation against their own short-comings and bad decisions. Good for your
daughter trying to help them.

By the time I got to junior high, they were asking kids to choose either
college prep or commercial as a course of study to pursue starting in the
eighth grade. I chose college prep, but I had an encounter with a fellow 7th
grader that really riled me up. She was the daughter of a Lafayette College
professor. She came to school on the morning we were to make our decisions
final and sought me out. She explained, in what I thought was a rather
haughty manner, that her father was a professor and that she discussed my
situation with him at dinner the night before. She knew I wanted to take
college prep. She said that the entire family had agreed that it would be a
mistake for me to consider going to college; there simply was no way I could
do the work. I wish I had punched her, but alas, I didn't.
Donna

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda Lambert
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 2:27 PM
To: Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness field

Donna,
Wow, you perked up my memory, too. yes, it was that same dexterity test that
I took, with pegs and holes. But, being the obsessive compulsive and over
achiever that I am, well, I aced it! Therefore, I was "pegged" to be put
into the proper hole for my future good.  lol  It was the law that they had
to give those tests to students, and they had to have a meeting with every
student at least one time  during the 4 years of high school. My meeting
took place after the test was given, just before I graduated - so it would
be "legal."

The other criteria that I see on looking back on all this stuff is that only
the kids from professional backgrounds at home (their parents), were marked
for going on to college. The rest, were pegged for manual labor in a
factory, despite intelligence testing.  Children who came from the blue
collar families were seldom, and I do mean very seldom, ever encouraged to
even think of anything else.  Marginalization really begins in the earliest
years of life - and it still does - and that has far more to do with
economic issues than it does a disability issue.

My daughter is the librarian of a very FANCY and elite new school..  Of the
600 students who are there, all but 40 of those students come from fairly
wealthy families and are "entitled" - she asked me recently, "Do you think
those 40 children do not stand out like a sore thumb? "  When they have a
book fair, many of those children have a "budget" of about $50. to spend on
books that day.  The other 40 children come up to her with some small change
in their hand and ask if there is anything they can buy with it!  Not only
are they children who are completely out of place in the economic picture,
they are really denied basic rights to even own a book because they have no
money to buy one. (She is creating some clever ways to get books into their
hands anyway, but it will be at her own expense.)

I do believe that no matter how marginalized people with blindness feel,
there are zillions of others who are also marginalized  as well by our
education system, and uncaring entitled class.

In the small rural town where I live, over 42 percent of the children in our
school district are children from below the poverty line.  Their parents,
for the most part, are the "working poor." They work 2 jobs each, and
therefore the children are left to fend for themselves because Mom and Dad
are working day and night just to survive. I don't think we can be very
optimistic about the future of that 42 percent here, do you?  Just makes me
sick.
Lynda

----- Original Message -----
From: "Donna Hill" <penatwork at epix.net>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 1:11 PM
Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness field

> Lynda,
> You bring up one of those similarities I'm always talking about between 
> the
> blindness movement and other civil rights movements. Years ago, the normal
> perception of women did not include much in the way of  career-readiness.
> Sure, women had to work in factories in WWII to support the war effort, 
> but
> as for careers, you could teach or be a nurse; that was about it. The
> underlying message was that when it came to what was best for women, men
> knew best . Fortunately, we have come a long way, baby!
>
> The whole erasers on pencils thing has dredged up another memory. When I 
> was
> in junior high, they made me take a test of my manual dexterity, which I
> didn't think at the time was something that other kids got. . It involved
> putting pegs into holes on a board -- literally the square peg in the 
> round
> hole kind of thing. I was overpowered by the impression that, if I did 
> well
> on this test, they would push me into manual labor of some sort. I didn't
> know what I could do, but I knew I wasn't having fantasies about putting
> pegs in holes, so I "threw" the test -- figuratively speaking.
>
> I had a hard time with setting goals, because on some level I believed 
> that
> I couldn't do anything. I had secret dreams of what I'd like to do, but
> there was a real disconnect between that and having a plan. The thing that
> kept me going was the knowledge that, whatever anyone else said or how 
> true
> it was, I didn't want those things to be true. That's really all I had.
> Goals came later. My somewhat cynical version of the Plan A thing is that 
> if
> you strive for Plan A, you might not make it, but you might make plan B. 
> If
> you don't strive for plan A, you're not even going to make plan B.
> Donna
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda 
> Lambert
> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 12:47 PM
> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness field
>
> Donna,
> You might have been putting erasers in pencils - OMG!
> Can you envision yourself in such a place? Never!
> You are living proof of seeking out a goal that is a passion and going for
> it.
>
> When I graduated from high school, in the dark ages of course, I as told 
> by
> the counselor that I had really good hand and eye coordination, so I 
> should
> work our very well in a factory assembly line. Never mind that my IQ was
> already beyond that of a college graduate - no, I should apply for a 
> laborer
> job. OMG. I would have been fired very quickly from such a job as I would
> have been there daydreaming and imagining and I would have either had a 
> bad
> accident, or caused the entire place to be in shut down mode from 
> something
> stupid I would have done.
>
> I could not do any kind of repetitive activity for even a day - probably 
> not
> even for an hour, really.  I really had a good laugh at the thought of you
> doing the erasers, but then, that isn't really funny when you follow it to
> it's end, is it?
>
>
> When my students would sit down with me and we would discuss their 
> schedule
> and their plans for a major, I told them to never settle for anything 
> other
> than what they have a passion for - because if they do, in mid-life they
> will be longing for the thing they wanted in the first place - and so many
> people at mid-life are so unhappy with the life they created for 
> themselves.
>
> Even if they are financially successful, the failure to pursue their dream
> is still with them. I have seen this many times.
>
>
> Lynda
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Donna Hill" <penatwork at epix.net>
> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 12:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness field
>
>
>> Good advice.
>> Donna
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda
>> Lambert
>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 12:24 PM
>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness field
>>
>> I recommend the book, "Cockeyed" - which is available through library of
>> congress for the reading machines we have - a teenager who was going
>> blind,
>> and became a professor of English - it is super funny - and yet so
>> enlightening as to the high goals a person can achieve by never settling
>> for
>> Plan B.
>> My advice, is, those who plan for Plan B, end up being there instead of 
>> at
>> Plan A where they really wanted to be.
>> I do not believe in settling for anything less than the absolute desire 
>> of
>> your heart - Plan A is the only acceptable plan in my own life. I am an
>> advid believer in being completely outside the comfort level for as long
>> as
>> it takes to achieve your goals. And, once you are "there" you continue to
>> work your butt off without any excuses.
>> Excellence is the only path worth following.
>>
>> Lynda
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 10:52 AM
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness field
>>
>>
>>> New Braska is all kinds of awesome.  Some states are better than others.
>>> Any field is open, but you may have to move to find it.  Aiwa is another
>>> good state.  Leaving out the venders and customer service reps, no
>>> disrespect to any of the people in those fields, human service or
>>> computer
>>> programming fields followed by professors  and lawyers seem to be where
>>> totals or braille users work.  This is by no means cut and dry, and I am
>>> not
>>> including lo vision applicants, because the better your sight, the more
>>> likely you will be to have a job which is outside of that block of 
>>> fiends
>>> that I just mentioned.  I've met braille users in just about every type
>>> of
>>> career field, but keep in mind that a person who is blind does develop
>>> and
>>> emphasize a slightly different skill set which naturally fits them 
>>> better
>>> to
>>> certain fields.  Going outside of those fields generally speaking, will
>>> force the person to have to constantly perform at a higher level of 
>>> skill
>>> just to have a chance of success.  Of course, that is possible.  But
>>> remember, I am making a basic statement.  Feel free to enlighten me
>>> further.  Remember, I am saying this with the caveat  that anything is
>>> possible, and I have met Blind teachers, mechanics, business owners who
>>> are
>>> not venders, cabinent makers, among others.  Not all of the teachers 
>>> were
>>> teachers of the bisually impaired.  Some taught in standard classroom
>>> formats.  I have heard of blind electricians, met travel agents, there
>>> you
>>> go, travel agent is another field for the blind, and even read the
>>> article
>>> on the blind doctor. I think he is somewhere in canada.
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Robert
>>> Leslie
>>> Newman
>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 9:14 AM
>>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>>> Subject: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness field
>>>
>>> Guys
>>> Back when I started working for the commission for the Blind here in
>>> Nebraska, back in the seventies, our federation had the mindset (this is
>>> a
>>> generalization) that if you as a blind person had one of those jobs, 
>>> then
>>> you were suspect, as in you had gone over to the other side, that of the
>>> enemy! (This was the state of relations between the progressive blind 
>>> and
>>> the rehab services.) Boy, back then, in a NFB chapter around here, you
>>> mostly weren't encouraged to try and become an officer, because it was
>>> feared that you would be a spy for the rehab side, and would be pushing
>>> their (the bad guys) agenda. But --- this all changed. Here in Nebraska
>>> and
>>> in New Mexico and maybe in some other states, the NFB got the bad agency
>>> head folks fired and had a hand in who and what changes had to occur ---
>>> and
>>> so the NFB philosophy got the upper hand. And then, it became respectful
>>> for
>>> NFB members to be part of the rehab scene. (Here in the Omaha chapter we
>>> still have one older member, like in the 80's who doesn't like seeing a
>>> rehab professional being in a leadership position.)
>>>
>>> Think of it, one of the larger and more active NFB Division's is the
>>> Rehabilitation Professionals.
>>>
>>> #2 Taking a serious look at job opportunities for the blind in blind
>>> related
>>> professions --- count up the number of rehab agencies and/or other
>>> services
>>> around the country and add up how many blind folks are working within
>>> them
>>> and I bet that number is not as great as you think!!! Consider, that in
>>> general, the not so good agencies who have low expectations are the ones
>>> that will more than likely hire only a few token blind workers. And the
>>> better rehab services, which are the minority in this nationwide group
>>> that
>>> we are looking at --- sure, they may have more blind guys on staff.
>>> (Nebraska at present has 1 blind related rehab service only. They have a
>>> total staff at the commission that numbers around 55 and 17 are blind.
>>> All
>>> other employed blind people work in a variety of other jobs; Nebraska is
>>> one
>>> of the better states for employment of the blind and there are a bunch 
>>> of
>>> folks that are doing all kinds of jobs.) So watch that thought of yours,
>>> that there are a big number of blind folks working in blind related
>>> jobs ---
>>> for either reason of- A. That is where they are accepted. Or B. That it
>>> is
>>> the job that the blind think of first as to what they can do.
>>>
>>> (Just my rambling for this morning.)
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J.
>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 7:08 AM
>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Working in blindness field
>>>
>>> Bridget,
>>>
>>> Could it be that more of the state board members and generally more
>>> really
>>> active members of the NFB are working in the blindness field because
>>> blindness is their passion?It makes sense to me that if promoting
>>> opportunities for blind people was your life's mission that you'd work 
>>> in
>>> that field and be more active within an organization that supported you.
>>> I
>>> do think all blind people have an interest in achieving true equality 
>>> for
>>> blind people. However I think for some it is their major life's work,
>>> while
>>> for others of us it is something we do when we can around our other main
>>> pursuits. So it makes sense to me that there would be a large number of
>>> people within the NFB that do or want to work in the blindness field.
>>>
>>> I've been blind for around 20 years now.  While I do know quite a few
>>> blind
>>> people who work in the blindness field, I'd say I know a larger number
>>> who
>>> don't.  Perhaps that's because I have never been very involved in
>>> leadership
>>> within the NFB.  It does seem that those in leadership positions do work
>>> in
>>> the blindness field much more frequently.  Again that makes sense to me
>>> due
>>> to their strong interest and commitment to the cause.
>>>
>>> Julie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/17/2013 11:13 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote:
>>>> Ashley,
>>>>
>>>> Without actual stats, we can't really debate this, but that being
>>>> said, I beg to differ, at least to a degree.
>>>>
>>>> I don't think anyone here is trying to make generalizations seeing as
>>>> we all are blind, but we are all speaking from our experiences and
>>>> personal observations.
>>>>
>>>> In the ten years I've been blind, which isn't long compared to some,
>>>> I've met more blind people working in a blindness-related field or
>>>> hoping to be employed in a blindness related field. For every lawyer,
>>>> teacher and computer programmer I've met, I've met ten who worked in a
>>>> job relating to blindness.
>>>>
>>>> There's nothing wrong with this, and most of us would agree that blind
>>>> people need to be working in these fields, but I also think it can
>>>> become a safety net for some; not all, but many.
>>>>
>>>> I've been to NFB conventions, and yes, there are people employed in
>>>> various fields, and many scholarship winners plan to, or are, pursuing
>>>> a myriad of career paths, but again, for every one of these people
>>>> I've met, I've met a dozen working in the blindness field. Or many of
>>>> these people end up in a blindness field despite their choice of 
>>>> degree.
>>>>
>>>> And having heard several scholarship winners speak at conventions, a
>>>> good number of them hope to work in some way in a blindness field or
>>>> teaching the blind. Again, nothing wrong with this, and we do need
>>>> blind people doing this, but, for me, it shows how many blind people
>>>> go into a blindness related field.
>>>>
>>>> And in our affiliate, most of the leadership either works in the
>>>> blindness field or hopes too. Of our eleven state board members, only
>>>> two are employed outside of a blindness field, and one is working
>>>> towards a degree so they can work in a blindness job.
>>>>
>>>> More and more blind people are seeking opportunities outside of a
>>>> blindness related career, but many are still drawn to the field for
>>>> whatever reason. Again, we need strong, competent blind people in this
>>>> field, but we also need to consider what we truly want as a person and
>>>> not a blind person.
>>>>
>>>> And a side note, I don't think Lynda meant anything negative by her
>>>> comments nor was she implying all blind people work in a blindness
>>>> related field. She was merely detailing her experience and speaking to
>>>> that experience alone.
>>>>
>>>> Bridgit
>>>>
>>>> Message: 11
>>>> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 22:28:29 -0500
>>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett"<bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List"<stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Sending this again: Article
>>>> showingwhatparentsofblindkids are facing
>>>> Message-ID:<D073072BEB3F4E1F938EB6B7A6FF190A at OwnerPC>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>>> reply-type=response
>>>>
>>>> Lynda,
>>>> I beg to differ. Have you been to a nfb convention?
>>>> There are people employed in all walks of life and most scholarship
>>>> winners have a career aspiration in a non blindness field; they
>>>> include future teachers, therapists, researchers,  counselors, and
>>>> doctors.
>>>> Most blind people I know work either in the IT field as computer
>>>> programmers or in the government, far from the blindness fields! Read
>>>> the braille monitor and you will see the wide variety of fields too!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> stylist:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/julielj%40neb.rr.
>>>> com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----
>>>> No virus found in this message.
>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>> Version: 2012.0.2238 / Virus Database: 2639/5610 - Release Date:
>>>> 02/17/13
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> stylist mailing list
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>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> stylist:
>>>
>>
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmai
>>> l.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Writers Division web site
>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>> stylist mailing list
>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> stylist:
>>>
>>
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet
>> .net
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site
>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>> stylist mailing list
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>> stylist:
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>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>> stylist mailing list
>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> stylist:
>>
>
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> .net
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site
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> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
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> stylist:
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>
> _______________________________________________
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> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
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------------------------------

Message: 15
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 21:52:48 -0500
From: "Donna Hill" <penatwork at epix.net>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Definition of blindness
Message-ID: <E23A22BF4ABE41F38F501A5BB300988D at OwnerHP>
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"

Bridgit,
You hit on the reason we have the terms. It has to do with "services" and is
perpetuated by the professionals -- not that we don't perpetuate it
ourselves. Braille isn't for low vision students. It's better for them to
strain their eyes, get headaches, have no life and fall behind -- at least
they aren't blind. I agree with you that we're all in this together, but I
also think that the labels we've been given by doctors, teachers and rehab
counsellors impact our lives, many times in ways that are similar to what
has happened to others carrying around the same labels.
Donna 

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bridgit
Pollpeter
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 2:51 PM
To: stylist at nfbnet.org
Subject: [stylist] Definition of blindness

But we don't need to be defined or boxed in to choose tools and methods.
Labels like this tend to create, and perpetuate, a hierarchy of blindness.
If blind, whatever the level, you are aware of the situation and what you
need to do. To label you type of vision loss just places an unnecessary
distinction in my book. What does a formal definition or label do in terms
of tools and methods? In most situations, these labels are what box us in
such as low vision students being denied Braille education or cane travel.
It says visually impaired seniors don't need alternative skills training. It
denies services and alternative skills training to a lot of people because
of this label. You have low vision so you can strain to use that vision. You
are totally blind so you don't need education because you have little
opportunities. I don't want to be known as the blind girl; I just want to be
the girl with a talent, with a personality, with an opinion... Labels do
nothing to bring equality.

Bridgit
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 23:58:23 -0500
From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Definition of blindness
Message-ID: <008901ce0ccb$6a3d9c00$3eb8d400$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"

Yeah it actually might.  You should want to know as much about yourself as
possible.  When experts can't give you an answer that's kind of pathetic. It
is good she knows how much she can use what limited sight she has.  Use
every tool in the tool box, but always use the best tool for the job.

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------------------------------

Message: 16
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 21:56:03 -0500
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] more on : Article showing what    parents &
    kidsarefacing
Message-ID: <C2DBF258095F460586C4E9858446A84F at OwnerPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
    reply-type=original

Justin,
that figure I believe is false; it does not change because it sounds great 
to win more money for employment programs for blind people. it also evokes 
sympathy perhaps  in the government hiring managers.

I agree its  an odd figure and I don't think its accurate for the reasons 
people already mentioneed.

-----Original Message----- 
From: justin williams
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 11:59 PM
To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [stylist] more on : Article showing what parents & 
kidsarefacing

That 70 percent always sat funny with me because the number never changed.

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Donna Hill
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 10:08 PM
To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [stylist] more on : Article showing what parents & kids
arefacing

Robert,
I'm confused. Shouldn't we be using the Dept. of Labor's formula for
figuring unemployment? If that's what they use for everyone, and they're
getting a much lower unemployment rate than we've been led to believe ...
Well, it doesn't sound right. I mean, 38% is still terrible and way worse
than the general unemployment numbers, but we've been telling people it's
70%. If we're using a non-standard method of calculating it, aren't we
opening ourselves up to the criticism that we're exaggerating the problem?
What am I missing here?
Donna

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Robert Leslie
Newman
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 8:10 PM
To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [stylist] more on : Article showing what parents & kids
arefacing

Here are a couple of other interesting facts:

#1 90% of the 30+ blind folks who are employed are Braille users!

#2 Here in Nebraska since we have had a training center for the blind,
teaching non-visual techniques, 87 percent of the graduates are employed.

#3 If you go back into the archives of the Braille Monitor, and search for
an article written by Doctor James S. Nyman, which is a script of a speech
he gave at the White cane banquet sponsored by the Omaha NFB chapter, you
will find a different number of how many of the blind are unemployed. That
is to say, if in figuring the unemployment rate of the blind, by using the
same criteria that the Department of Labor uses to figure unemployment of
the general public, then you get a number of unemployed blind being more
like 38%.

(Note- The year after Doctor Nyman gave his speech, I too got my keynote
speech for the White Cane  banquet placed in the Monitor - I didn't give the
speech, I wrote it and a blind actor posing as Lewis Braille gave it. I
wrote it as if we had contracted with Lewis Braille to evaluate the status
of Braille usage and teaching in the USA, today.) [That was the year of
Lewis's 200 birthday.[

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l.com

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------------------------------

Message: 17
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 22:00:48 -0500
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Sending this
    again:Articleshowingwhatparentsofblindkids are facing
Message-ID: <CA34D47CE8C34A148B66FD3DF9A31C42 at OwnerPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
    reply-type=response

yes it would be cool to have the stats on non blind versus blind fields.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Lynda Lambert
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 9:43 AM
To: Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [stylist] Sending this 
again:Articleshowingwhatparentsofblindkids are facing

Yes, It would be interesting to really have the statistics on it, wouldn't
it.
Lynda

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 10:28 PM
Subject: Re: [stylist] Sending this again:
Articleshowingwhatparentsofblindkids are facing

> Lynda,
> I beg to differ. Have you been to a nfb convention?
> There are people employed in all walks of life and most scholarship 
> winners have a career aspiration in a non blindness field; they include 
> future teachers, therapists, researchers,  counselors, and doctors.
> Most blind people I know work either in the IT field as computer 
> programmers or in the government, far from the blindness
> fields! Read the braille monitor and you will see the wide variety of 
> fields too!
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Lynda Lambert
> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 8:29 AM
> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Sending this again: Article 
> showingwhatparentsofblindkids are facing
>
> and, I am guessing that the 90 percent of the 30 percent, work in blind
> related fields from what I am hearing.
> It would be interesting to know.
>
> Lynda
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 9:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Sending this again: Article 
> showingwhatparentsofblind
> kids are facing
>
>
>>I only heard reference to that once.  I wonder if we can find the stat.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Barbara
>> Hammel
>> Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 9:12 PM
>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Sending this again: Article showing
>> whatparentsofblind kids are facing
>>
>> I think the stat that goes around is that of the 30 percent who are
>> employed, 90 percent of them use Braille.
>> Barbara
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Poetry is an echo, asking a shadow to dance. -- Carl Sandburg
>> -----Original Message----- 
>> From: justin williams
>> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 5:20 PM
>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Sending this again: Article showing
>> whatparentsofblind kids are facing
>>
>> I heard a stat once that despite 70 percent of the blind being 
>> unemployed,
>> only 44 percent of those who operate as totals, or cloes to total are
>> unemployed.  In other words, those who can read braille are less likely 
>> to
>> be unemployed.  I think that is because they are comfortable in using the
>> blindness skills.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Donna Hill
>> Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 6:14 PM
>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Sending this again: Article showing what
>> parentsofblind kids are facing
>>
>> Lynda
>> You raise some interesting points. I too have often wondered what 
>> percentage
>> of the 30% of blind people of working age who are working are employed in
>> blindness-related jobs. I haven't been able to find anything official on
>> this. I think (and maybe this shows me to be more of an optimist than I
>> usually care to admit) that it is less now than years ago.
>>
>> There are many blind people who have broken barriers in professions like
>> engineering, chemistry and the law, and of course many blind lawyers. I 
>> only
>> know of two living blind people (both men) who completed medical school 
>> as
>> blind students.
>>
>> Celest Lopes is the head of the Racketeering Department at the NYC 
>> District
>> Attorney's Office, and there are many blind women in teaching and social
>> work. Temple U. had a blind summa cum laude a few years ago (Harriet Go),
>> who is now one of several blind teachers in the Philadelphia School
>> District. I think our NFB Scholarship Committee head, Patty Chang, is an 
>> ADA
>> in Chicago, and Elizabeth Campbell has worked as a reporter for a 
>> newspaper
>> in Fort Worth for over 20 years.
>>
>> In terms of the sighted TVIs and rehab counsellors being given preference
>> over the blind ones, I think there's a lot of truth in that. 
>> Nevertheless,
>> my brother, who teaches Braille at Lions World Services in Little Rock, 
>> has
>> survived many lay-offs and was recently given a promotion to a management
>> position.
>>
>> I always get the impression though that when the average sighted person
>> hears about any of these accomplishments, they either think they're being
>> fed a line of bull or that the specific individual is some sort of 
>> sevant --
>> that the accomplishment is not something that a normally intelligent 
>> blind
>> person could achieve.
>>
>> When I was heading off for college and indeed throughout my college and 
>> post
>> college years, I felt pressured by my advisers to go into a field like
>> teaching blind children or rehab counselling. I fought fiercely against 
>> this
>> for several reasons. First, it was my opinion that I really didn't have
>> anything to contribute to blind kids, since I was having such a hard time
>> myself and didn't have Braille or mobility skills. Second, I couldn't 
>> help
>> wondering how it could work to funnel all the blind folks into
>> blindness-related jobs. It felt unsustainable. Third, it felt like I was
>> being pushed aside into that separate but "not" equal world out of which
>> black people were trying so desperately to escape.
>>
>> As far as the trained professionals being stumbling blocks ... I think 
>> that
>> is far too often the case. When I was doing the Braille literacy series, 
>> I
>> had occasion to monitor the online forum for TVIs. They were discussing 
>> this
>> business about Braille literacy that the NFB had been promoting. I don't
>> know if you recall, but the NFB got Congress to authorize the minting of 
>> a
>> Braille silver dollar as one of the two commemorative coins for 2009, 
>> which
>> was the 200th anniversary of Louis Braille's birth. The one post that 
>> stood
>> out for me came from a TVI who admitted that she wept openly when she
>> learned that she had to teach Braille. If the teachers of sighted 
>> children
>> were as poorly equipped to teach print reading as the TVIs are to teach
>> Braille, there would be rioting in the streets.
>>
>> Carlton Ann Cook Walker, the current president of the National 
>> Organization
>> of Parents of Blind Children, had a lot to say about this issue. When I 
>> get
>> the chance, I'll try to find the article I did about her for my Braille
>> Literacy series. Her story, which I subtitled, "Lessons from a 
>> Right-Handed
>> World," was the article that got picked up the most by other sites.
>>
>> I must say though, that there are many wonderful TVIs who are fierce
>> advocates for their students. Sister Meg at the St. Lucy's Day School for
>> Blind Children run by the Philadelphia Arch Dioces comes to mind, as do a
>> couple of the TVIs I corresponded with concerning the winners of our 
>> Youth
>> Braille Writing Contest.
>> Donna
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda 
>> Lambert
>> Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 1:51 PM
>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Sending this again: Article showing what
>> parentsofblind kids are facing
>>
>> Donna, what a powerful story! It is really well done, and I love the way 
>> you
>> end it with information for others who may be looking for help.
>> It seems to me as though the people who are "trained professionals" in 
>> this
>> field are often more of a stumbling block than the helpers that they are
>> supposed to be.
>> This is very enlightening to me, as I think it would be to anyone who had 
>> no
>> prior knowledge about blindness.
>> One person told me when I lost my sight, that she had never known of a 
>> blind
>> person who had a job in any other field than something that is
>> blind-related. This young man will have many obstacles in his  path as he
>> pursues his dreams for a profssion in law, I am sure.
>> I often wonder, out of the percent of blind people who are employed, how
>> many do you suppose are working in non-blind related fields?
>> Have you ever done research on this?
>> One thing that perplexes me, or should I say it dissapoints me, is when
>> sighted people are working at jobs in the blind related industry that 
>> could
>> or should be done by blind people. And, I wonder if they are given
>> preference over blind people for those jobs.  As in any field, job 
>> placement
>> is a political animal first and foremost, I know! But, when I was at the
>> rehab school I saw that some blind people had been let go, and sighted
>> persons retained and it bothered me so much. I cannot tell you how 
>> important
>> it was to me the day I had called there, and the person on the phone with 
>> me
>> told me she was blind. It immediately gave me hope - and then, while I 
>> was
>> there, that same person was let go, along with some others, due to 
>> cutback,
>> we were told. Hmmm?
>>
>> Lynda
>>
>> Lynda
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 12:56 PM
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Sending this again: Article showing what parents
>> ofblind kids are facing
>>
>>
>>> that is a fantastic story.  I would have been calling for a law suit a
>>> log time ago.  I would have taken the legal stick and beat them about
>>> the had and shoulders into submission.  She has a lot of patients.  I
>>> would have stepd on their throats.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Donna
>>> Hill
>>> Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 12:26 PM
>>> To: Stylist
>>> Subject: [stylist] Sending this again: Article showing what parents of
>>> blind kids are facing
>>>
>>> I don't know if this ever made the list with the problems we recently 
>>> had.
>>> Since a week's gone by with no comment, I thought perhaps not.
>>>
>>> Donna
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> With the lively discusion we've been having, I thought I'd like to
>>> share this article I wrote for American Chronicle in 2009. Don't think
>>> this sort of thing isn't happening today.
>>>
>>> Donna
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Braille Literacy: For the Love of Reading
>>>
>>> A Mother's Struggle with America's Special Education System
>>>
>>> By Donna W. Hill
>>>
>>> (Word count: 4981)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ad: If you were a modern American educator would you expect a legally
>>> blind child to rely upon his remaining vision to use power tools or go
>>> snow tubing? How slow would a child have to read print for you to
>>> consider teaching him Braille?  How bent over would he have to be,
>>> before it occurred to you that he might benefit from a white cane?
>>> Now that Carrie Gilmer's son is headed off to college, she can talk
>>> about their ten-year ordeal.
>>> As
>>> President of the Minnesota chapter of the National Organization of
>>> Parents of Blind Children, she knows that her experiences are
>>> unfortunately all too common.  From her initial reactions to learning
>>> that her son was legally blind to the mistakes she hopes other parents
>>> won't make, she is candid about the fight she has just been through.
>>> Carrie's story is a must read for anyone with a friend or loved one
>>> dealing with poor vision.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jordan Richardson (18, Minneapolis) is a Blaine High School senior
>>> with a
>>> 3.7 grade point average.  He is a trombonist in the school's jazz
>>> band, a reporter for the school newspaper and in Spanish club.  As a
>>> freshman, he was on Student Council.  As a sophomore and junior, he
>>> was in Science Olympiad.  In his junior year he was in the National
>>> Honor Society and received a community service award.  His volunteer
>>> projects include tutoring students learning English as a second
>>> language and mentoring blind children at a summer camp.  He reads the
>>> Constitution for fun and plans to become a judge.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> When we hear stories about young men like Jordan, we are all proud and
>>> perhaps a bit relieved that the future is in such intelligent, gifted
>>> and generous hands.  The fact that Jordan has done all of this as a
>>> blind person is not the amazing or miraculous part of the story.  In
>>> fact, if you get too caught up in that, you'll miss the point that he
>>> and his mother, Carrie Gilmer, want to get across: blind people can
>>> compete with their sighted peers, when given the tools and
>>> encouragement to do so.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> There is, however, something which is extraordinary about Jordan's 
>>> story.
>>> It involves what his mother had to go through to get him an education
>>> in the first place.  Carrie, who has been president of the Minnesota
>>> chapter of the non-profit National Organization of Parents of Blind
>>> Children (NOPBC):
>>>
>>> <http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Parents_and_Teachers.asp>
>>> http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Parents_and_Teachers.asp</a>
>>>
>>> since 2004, is working to stop what happened to her and Jordan from
>>> happening to other families.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, her story is all too common. The result is lower
>>> achievement, dependence and the need for tax-payer support of
>>> unemployable blind adults.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Braille literacy is declining.  Only ten percent of America's blind
>>> children are being taught to read and write Braille - down from fifty
>>> percent in the '60s.  Braille's significance can be glimpsed in two
>>> statistics.  Only thirty percent of working-age blind Americans are
>>> employed, and over eighty percent of them read Braille.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> There are three major areas in which a person with low vision may need
>>> to make adjustments: literacy (reading and writing), orientation and
>>> mobility (getting around) and manual activities (everything from
>>> cooking and sewing to doing the laundry and woodworking.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Does the thought of a blind person cooking bacon or using a power saw
>>> make you cringe a little?  There are blind cooks and carpenters who do
>>> these things every day.  What is truly scary is when low vision
>>> students are expected to do them without learning the non-visual
>>> skills which make the safe accomplishment of these tasks possible.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sight is a powerful sense.  People are naturally inclined to "look"
>>> even when their vision is unreliable. One of the biggest challenges of
>>> educating low vision and legally blind children is knowing when to
>>> stop encouraging them to use their remaining eyesight.  Should you
>>> teach them Braille when they are reading large print half as fast as
>>> their fully sighted peers?
>>> Maybe at a third the speed?  What about at a quarter of the speed, or
>>> when they're getting headaches and not having time for friends and
>>> hobbies?  If the child's vision is well beyond the limits for legal
>>> blindness and the child has a degenerative condition, do you teach
>>> Braille early, taking advantage of the increased tactile sensitivity
>>> in children which makes learning Braille easier in childhood?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The Special Education system in the US is so biased toward using
>>> faulty eyesight that children are made disabled not from their eye
>>> condition, but from the choices that force them to settle for
>>> substandard achievement rather than learn non-visual skills.  Year
>>> after year from the time Jordan was in kindergarten, Carrie struggled
>>> with a rat's nest of scenarios which threatened to hold her son back,
>>> limit his potential and rob him of his childhood. From not knowing how
>>> to evaluate a child's usable vision and
>>>
>>> refusing to provide adaptive equipment,   to judging his potential 
>>> against
>>> what they thought was possible for blind kids - i.e. not much -- and
>>> sabotaging her efforts, the Special Education system has given her an
>>> uphill battle.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jordan is legally blind. He has a degenerative condition called
>>> retinal cone and rod dystrophy, which will probably take the little
>>> sight he has eventually.  Carrie didn't know there was anything wrong
>>> at first.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "He liked to get close to things," she says, "but many kids do."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jordan was also driving his tricycle into the curb.  When she
>>> expressed concern to his pediatrician, Carrie's suspicions were
>>> brushed aside as a mother's worry.  Not until he was about to attend
>>> kindergarten did she learn the truth.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "It was the daycare center at the Y where I was working out," she
>>> says, "They mentioned it and I insisted that the pediatrician send him
>>> to an eye doctor."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Carrie remembers the eye doctor frowning and saying, "He has an awful
>>> lot of vision loss for his age."  Jordan was sent home with glasses
>>> for his astigmatism, which didn't help.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> When a specialist finally diagnosed Jordan's condition, his vision was
>>> 20/400 - worse than legal blindness which is 20/200.  The doctor said
>>> there was nothing they could do and that he would call the state
>>> services for the blind to inform them.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "I cried for twenty-one days," says Carrie, "I couldn't understand.
>>> How could he be blind without me knowing?  How could he be blind and
>>> still see the McDonald's sign?"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Like most of us, Carrie had little personal experience with blind
>>> people, and her impressions were not favorable.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "When I was three years old, my grandparents took me to visit a couple
>>> they knew.  The husband had lost his sight," she remembers, "He was
>>> really grumpy and barking orders at his wife."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Other than that, she knew of Helen Keller, Ray Charles, the Sidney
>>> Poitier movie "A Patch of Blue" and that some blind people could string
>> beads.
>>> She
>>> believed that blind people had little chance of living independent,
>>> productive and happy lives.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "I realized that my image of blindness was a horrible one and it hurt
>>> to think that people would think that way about Jordan," she says.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A Gift From Beyond the Grave
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In her pain, Carrie began to notice that something didn't add up.  It
>>> was the difference between her impression of what blindness meant and
>>> the bright little boy she knew.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> She had just moved and was unpacking a box of literature left by her
>>> late grandmother.  On top was something from the NFB.  Her grandmother
>>> had a secret.  She had lost enough vision to be legally blind, and she
>>> had made donations to the NFB.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "The word 'blind' just leapt off the page at me," says Carrie, "I read
>>> the NFB books "Making Hay" and "What Color is the Sun."  They made me
>>> stop crying and gave me hope.  Then, I made my first big mistake."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Her mistake was that she assumed the professionals at Jordan's school
>>> would also have a positive attitude about blindness and would get
>>> Jordan the tools and instruction he needed to reach his true
>>> potential.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "I should have called the NFB right then and there," she says.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In kindergarten, it seemed as though Jordan was on the right track.
>>> He had a Braille instructor with forty years' experience. She worked
>>> with Jordan for half an hour after school four times a week.  She said
>>> he was picking it up quickly and was tactually gifted.  The school
>>> said he was doing well.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Carrie didn't realize that they meant doing well "for a blind person."
>>> Only
>>> much later did she understand that to say that   Jordan was tactually
>>> gifted, represented a sighted bias, and that even that first teacher
>>> had mythical ideas about blindness and the sense of touch.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "It's people's ability to use other senses not the strength of those
>>> senses," she says, "People don't realize how much they are actually 
>>> using
>>> their other senses.   They don't spend time analyzing what they do.  I
>>> touched the kitchen counter one day after wiping it off and I realized
>>> that I could feel that it wasn't as clean as it looked.  Also, they
>>> don't realize how often they are wrong about what they see - a person
>>> 'looked' nice, the ice 'looked' safe."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sighted bias notwithstanding, Jordan's first Braille teacher wanted 
>>> Jordan
>>> to learn Braille and wait at least until forth grade to decide if he 
>>> would
>>> be able to read well enough using print.  She told Carrie they would be
>>> gradually adding Braille into his school day.  As she retired, she gave
>>> Carrie a prophetic warning.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "She told us to make sure that we held the next teacher accountable,
>>> because
>>> there were 'different philosophies.'"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The Fight Begins
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In first grade, Jordan's new TBS (Teacher of Blind Students) wanted to
>>> teach
>>> him to use an abacus for math and work on orientation and mobility (OM).
>>> Suddenly, the thirty-minute sessions were no longer solid Braille
>>> instruction. In addition, the quality of the instruction changed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "She wanted to make Braille fun, implying that it wasn't fun," Carrie
>>> remembers, "They just played Yahtzee and other games that were not even
>>> Braille-based. She didn't think Jordan needed to use Braille during the
>>> day
>>> and wouldn't really need it for a long time."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jordan, who didn't understand why he needed Braille, began to subtly 
>>> fall
>>> behind.  Carrie's other two children had been fluent readers by then, 
>>> but
>>> Jordan was a very slow reader and didn't enjoy it.  In first grade, his
>>> print reading speed was twenty-five words per minute   and ten in 
>>> Braille.
>>> She thought he needed more Braille instruction, but the teachers didn't.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Carrie was worried, however.  It seemed to her that Jordan would be 
>>> better
>>> at Braille if he had some Braille books and was being encouraged to read
>>> them.  She complained at the end of that year to the Director of Special
>>> Education.  For five weeks, they gave him some Braille instruction twice 
>>> a
>>> week but no books.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "They didn't even mention that NLS has Braille books," Carrie says, "I
>>> assumed I had to get them from the school."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> People with print handicaps, including sight loss, dyslexia and other
>>> physical and learning disabilities, can borrow Braille and recorded 
>>> books
>>> from the National Library Service for the Blind and Physically
>>> Handicapped:
>>>
>>> <http://www.loc.gov/nls/> http://www.loc.gov/nls/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In second grade Jordan was having more problems getting around. He was
>>> hesitant about the ground in front of him.  In gym, he was told to sit 
>>> by
>>> the wall so he wouldn't get hurt.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "He still wanted to hold my hand at seven!" Carrie remembers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jordan had also stopped interacting with his classmates.  Carrie began 
>>> to
>>> question the decisions the school was making. She wanted Jordan to have
>>> Braille in the classroom.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In a decision based on convenience and the cost of bussing him home, the
>>> school announced that they were going to remove him from science and
>>> geography classes for special instruction instead of teaching him after
>>> school.  Carrie asked how this could be a good thing educationally, when
>>> he
>>> loved those subjects. She was afraid that would make him dislike 
>>> Braille.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "He liked the pictures in print books, and I didn't want him to get a 
>>> bad
>>> attitude."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> They then said they could teach him Braille during reading class, but
>>> Carrie
>>> believed that Jordan would still be missing something.  She wanted after
>>> school Braille instruction plus some during school.  In school, Jordan
>>> received only 5 minutes of Braille spelling lessons a week and no 
>>> Braille
>>> books.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jordan was alone at lunch and not mingling.  The Vision Department kept
>>> saying that Jordan could see up close and was doing just fine.  They
>>> recommended against adaptive physical education because "it's for 
>>> totally
>>> blind kids and they don't do that much anyway."  Carrie's relationship
>>> with
>>> the Special Ed staff broke down when they suggested that Jordan join a
>>> support group for behavior problems.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A New Way of Looking at Jordan's Progress
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Carrie learned that the school secretary had raised two blind children.
>>> Like Carrie, she had experienced problems with the Special Ed 
>>> department.
>>> She gave Carrie a copy of the NFB's "Future Reflections" magazine.  The
>>> article "Is Your Child Age Appropriate" by professional educator of 
>>> blind
>>> children ruby Ryles
>>>
>>> made Carrie understand that she was the expert about whether her son was
>>> on
>>> track based on his own potential.
>>>
>>> http://www.nfb.org/images/nfb/Publications/fr/fr11/Issue5/f110502.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Carrie realized that the answer to the article's question was "no," if 
>>> her
>>> expectations for Jordan were the same as they would be, if he were
>>> sighted.
>>> She finally made the call she should have made years before.  Judy
>>> sanders,
>>> at the NFB of Minnesota told her how to get Braille books and stressed 
>>> the
>>> importance of expecting Jordan to keep up with his class. Carrie entered
>>> Jordan in the "Braille readers are leaders" contest:
>>>
>>> <http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Braille_Initiative.asp>
>>> http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Braille_Initiative.asp
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "The Vision Department at Jordan's school treated me like I did not know
>>> what I was talking about.  They considered his vision to be good and
>>> wanted
>>> him to use it every second," says Carrie, "They acted like my husband 
>>> and
>>> I
>>> were trying to make Jordan blind."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jordan was still not interacting with his classmates.  The school
>>> suggested
>>> having the class cover their eyes with wax paper to experience what 
>>> Jordan
>>> could see.  Carrie, however, knew that this didn't represent Jordan's
>>> vision.  Judy, who is also blind, offered to come to school that spring 
>>> to
>>> give Jordan his Braille certificate and talk to the class about 
>>> blindness.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> When Carrie picked Judy up at the bus station, it was her first 
>>> experience
>>> with a competent blind person. It was Judy's white cane that drew her
>>> attention.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "She got out of the car by herself and just walked along with me like
>>> anyone," Carrie says.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Everyone loved Judy, including Jordan.  Carrie wanted more time to talk
>>> about the NFB's philosophy and offered to drive Judy home.  Judy
>>> encouraged
>>> her to go to the NFB's annual convention, saying they would learn more 
>>> in
>>> a
>>> week than she could tell her in years.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For financial reasons, Carrie was reluctant to attend the convention. 
>>> She
>>> was a stay-at-home Mom and her husband was a teacher.  But, the NFB of 
>>> MN
>>> sent them, and it changed their lives.  Carrie learned about the slate 
>>> and
>>> stylus - the traditional method for writing Braille, which Jordan had 
>>> not
>>> been taught.  Also, Jordan had been walking all bent over and the school
>>> had
>>> never even mentioned using a cane.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For third grade, Carrie wanted Jordan to learn to use a white cane and 
>>> to
>>> write Braille. She again asked that he have Braille books in class.  The
>>> TBS
>>> didn't want to teach the slate and stylus until forth grade.  Carrie was
>>> overwhelmed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "There were so many issues and so much opposition from the school," she
>>> sighs, "You have to ask yourself, 'Which battle do we fight?'"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> That year, the only time Jordan read Braille was for thirty minutes at
>>> night
>>> when his mother insisted.  He was still falling behind.  Forth grade was
>>> no
>>> different.  When Jordan was ready for fifth grade, Carrie demanded that
>>> all
>>> of his textbooks be in Braille.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "The TBS banged her fist on the table and said, 'Whatever.  He's never
>>> going
>>> to be a Braille reader.'" Carrie says,   "She had been telling Jordan,
>>> 'Your
>>> parents are the ones who want Braille,'"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jordan's print reading was still faster than Braille.  Braille was 
>>> harder
>>> for him, and Jordan didn't understand that that was because he didn't 
>>> use
>>> it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> With his face down on the page, Jordan could read thirty-five words a
>>> minute.  His classmates read eighty-five to ninety or more.  Jordan 
>>> didn't
>>> think of reading as a physical struggle, but he didn't like to read. 
>>> That
>>> troubled Carrie.  Her family loved reading.  Jordan was never a kid to
>>> talk
>>> back, argue or have tantrums, but he never read for fun, not even 
>>> comics.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ironically, the school obtained Braille texts for Jordan in fifth grade,
>>> but
>>> the teacher didn't use textbooks, preferring work sheets. They didn't 
>>> have
>>> work sheets in Braille, so Jordan still wasn't reading Braille during 
>>> the
>>> day except for his weekly spelling list. If the class was reading a 
>>> novel,
>>> it wasn't until they were on the last chapter that Jordan received the
>>> Braille version.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> By that time, Carrie was panicking and convinced that Jordan needed
>>> daylong
>>> Braille instruction, and asked for all Braille for sixth grade.  The TBS
>>> said that would ruin him and that he would get all d's and wouldn't be
>>> able
>>> to keep up.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> She was told, "You're dooming him.  You're going to traumatize him by
>>> going
>>> to all Braille and failure will be the result."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Gym class was still a disaster.  Rather than using audible game balls,
>>> which
>>> emit a continuous sound enabling blind kids to catch or hit them, the
>>> class
>>> was forced to stop the game to give Jordan the ball. He was still 
>>> sitting
>>> in
>>> the corner most of the time.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In sixth grade, the TBS wanted to pull Jordan from reading class for
>>> Braille
>>> instruction, to learn to use jaws (a screen reader program that works 
>>> with
>>> Windows) and the Nemeth Braille Code for mathematics and science 
>>> notation.
>>> Carrie didn't want him to miss reading because he would miss out on 
>>> class
>>> discussions on novels.  She allowed the TBS to pull him from gym class,
>>> reasoning that it was better for Jordan to miss gym than to miss reading
>>> class.  She enrolled him in the YMCA swim teem, which was four nights a
>>> week
>>> plus Saturday meets, as well as bowling league and ski club.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "At the Y he was really participating."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> That was the first year Jordan had Braille textbooks.   An amazing thing
>>> happened.  At the beginning of the year, Jordan's Braille speed was 
>>> twenty
>>> words a minute, and his print thirty-five.   In two months, his Braille
>>> speed was up to forty-five with print still at thirty-five. Jordan
>>> suddenly
>>> began to prefer reading Braille.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The victory was short-lived.  Jordan's Braille reading speed plateaued 
>>> at
>>> forty-five. In 7th grade, Carrie asked for them to work on his fluency.
>>> She
>>> was told that Braille readers don't read more than sixty words a minute.
>>> This is only true, Carrie realized later, when they get haphazard
>>> instruction.  Instead of working on fluency, they were surfing the
>>> internet
>>> and using a digital Braille note taker called Braille note, both of 
>>> which
>>> the teacher was teaching herself at the same time.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Also, Jordan was reading Braille with only one hand and he was a 
>>> terrible
>>> "scrubber" going back and forth over words he had just read before
>>> proceeding to the next word.  Carrie wasn't sure if this was due to poor
>>> instruction or a reading problem.  She begged for a reading specialist,
>>> but
>>> was told that Jordan didn't need one.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Most of Jordan's reading was done on the Braille note, a digital device
>>> with
>>> an eighteen cell "refreshable Braille" pad.  It's the Braille equivalent
>>> of
>>> reading one line at a time; each cell is one letter or symbol. This 
>>> meant
>>> he
>>> wasn't reading long sentences.  Even with that, Jordan had no leisure
>>> reading time because he needed more time for school work.  Even with a
>>> sighted reader, there was little time for leisure reading.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Again she was faced with a dilemma.  Do you drop expectations for 
>>> homework
>>> to give him leisure reading? They cut Jordan's homework, so he didn't 
>>> get
>>> the curriculum he was capable of, but had some time for leisure reading.
>>> Carrie was still worried about the quality of his Braille instruction. 
>>> He
>>> worked with the TBS one hour every other day, but the TBS focused mainly
>>> on
>>> the computer.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The Hard Lessons of Middle School
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In the summer before Jordan entered seventh grade, Carrie took a job at
>>> the
>>> NFB training center, Blind Inc., in Minneapolis, and enrolled Jordan in
>>> Buddy camp.
>>>
>>> http://www.blindinc.org/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> She learned about non-visual techniques for doing all sorts of everyday
>>> activities.   She talked to Jordan's seventh grade teachers about
>>> non-visual
>>> techniques for science, suggesting that the teachers speak with the 
>>> people
>>> at Blind Inc.   Her suggestions were rebuffed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> That year, he would have Home Economics and Industrial Arts.  Sewing was
>>> first.  Their solution was for Jordan to get fabric and thread in highly
>>> contrasting colors. Carrie, however, knew blind sewers didn't use that.
>>> The
>>> TBS finally agreed to talk to Blind Inc and then said the school would 
>>> buy
>>> the adapted sewing equipment, which included a sturdy needle threader 
>>> and
>>> a
>>> magnetic strip for keeping seams straight while using a sewing machine.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Though they hadn't addressed adaptations for Industrial Arts, Carrie was
>>> confident that they were finally on the same page.  She listened with
>>> delight to Jordan's stories about how well he was doing with his sewing
>>> project, a pair of shorts.  Jordan received an A.  His Mom was 
>>> impressed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "I got a D," she remembers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> When Jordan brought the shorts home, however, the truth of what had 
>>> really
>>> been going on came out.  Upon inspection, Carrie noticed seam marker 
>>> lines
>>> and realized they had made him do the project visually. Jordan never
>>> received the magnetic guide that the school promised they would buy or 
>>> the
>>> sturdy needle threader.  He began to cry and explained that they had 
>>> tried
>>> using duct tape, but he couldn't feel it.  So, the teacher had drawn 
>>> lines
>>> with a magic marker.  In order to see it, Jordan had to tilt his head 
>>> and
>>> press his forehead against the sewing machine.  He had threaded a needle
>>> one
>>> time using the commercially available foil needle threader, but it took 
>>> so
>>> long that the teacher ended up doing it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "I was in complete shock because he had been saying that it was going
>>> great," she recalls.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Carrie was too angry with the TBS to call.  But, things were getting 
>>> more
>>> dangerous.   No accommodations had yet been made for Jordan's upcoming
>>> Industrial Arts class, and he would be expected to use power tools
>>> including
>>> a ban saw and radial arm saw.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Then, there was the snow tubing trip.  Despite medical evidence to the
>>> contrary, the TBS had convinced the classroom teacher that Jordan wasn't
>>> really blind, so it hadn't even entered their minds that they had a 
>>> blind
>>> student. In addition, Jordan's OM teacher had been encouraging him to
>>> trust
>>> his vision. He came home with two black eyes.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Carrie asked Jordan what he thought his vision was good enough for, and 
>>> he
>>> said crossing the street.  They soon had an experience that showed 
>>> Carrie
>>> that, even though he didn't realize it, Jordan was relying on his 
>>> hearing
>>> to
>>> cross streets not his vision.  They were returning from the zoo and
>>> crossing
>>> at a congested corner.  Carrie thought it was safe and started crossing
>>> between two parked cars.  Jordan yelled to stop.  She realized that he 
>>> had
>>> been crossing by sound and did some experiments to prove it to him.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> When Carrie called the Industrial Arts teacher, he was actually glad to
>>> hear
>>> from her.  He was concerned about how Jordan would handle dangerous
>>> equipment.  He said that all the TBS had said was to get the course work
>>> to
>>> her so she could Braille it.  Carrie invited him to visit Blind Inc.  He
>>> spent hours with   their wood working teacher and got excited about the
>>> possibilities.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> NFB training centers use "sleep shades" so that students are able to
>>> resist
>>> using their faulty vision and develop reliable non-visual skills.  The
>>> Blind
>>> Inc. instructor suggested painting the shop glasses black so Jordan
>>> wouldn't
>>> be tempted to lean into the machines to see.  But when the IA teacher in
>>> his
>>> enthusiasm mentioned it to the TBS, she called Carrie, saying that using
>>> sleep shades would endanger the other students.  Although she had no
>>> personal industrial arts skills, the TBS wanted to assess Jordan's 
>>> vision
>>> on
>>> each piece of equipment.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Jordan likes to use his vision," she told Carrie, who finally
>>> comprehended
>>> the depth of sighted bias that this whole team had had.  Every decision
>>> was
>>> based on it.  It was so ingrained in their thinking that they were more
>>> comfortable allowing a legally blind kid to try to see what he was doing
>>> with a power saw than to permit him to use techniques that are designed 
>>> to
>>> allow a person to safely use power tools without sight.  They even
>>> believed
>>> that the other students in the class would be safer.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The TBS insisted that using sleep shades was too dangerous and was an
>>> insurance issue.   Carrie countered by pointing out the danger that the
>>> district had put Jordan in with the snow tubing trip and his sewing
>>> experience.  She told them she would pull him from class if they didn't 
>>> go
>>> along with the non-visual techniques.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> They realized that Carrie had grounds for a law suit   and had many
>>> meetings.  Jordan is half African American so they through a diversity
>>> specialist onto the team.  They agreed to conduct an experiment.  The 
>>> team
>>> would tour Blind Inc. as well as another training facility that didn't
>>> insist upon using sleep shades.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This took weeks and class was going on, so they agreed that Jordan would
>>> participate except for using power tools.  The Blind Inc. woodworking
>>> instructor volunteered to do the project with Jordan.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> At the end of seventh grade, the team agreed that Blind Inc. had the
>>> superior and safer technique using sleep shades and Jordan would use 
>>> them
>>> at
>>> the higher level IA course the following year.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Finally, Some Competent Braille Instruction
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Between seventh and eighth grade, Jordan attended "Circle of Life," a
>>> science camp held at the Jernigan Institute at the NFB's national
>>> headquarters in Baltimore. The NFB of Minnesota was having its 
>>> convention
>>> in
>>> the fall, and they asked him to speak about it.  Jordan wrote a speech 
>>> and
>>> read it at the convention.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "It was painfully slow," Carrie remembers, "Everyone was shocked at his
>>> poor
>>> reading skill."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> She had been asking for help from others but they didn't know how bad it
>>> was
>>> until then.  Carrie brainstormed with people in the NFB.  She learned
>>> about
>>> the two-handed method of reading Braille, in which the left hand reads 
>>> the
>>> first half of the line and then jumps to the next line while the right
>>> hand
>>> finishes.  Carrie realized that Jordan had never known what fluency felt
>>> like. She remembered that her older kids had followed along reading 
>>> print
>>> while listening to tape and tried that with Jordan and Braille.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jordan was getting into advanced classes but his mother believed he 
>>> needed
>>> intense Braille over the summer between 8th and 9th grade.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "He doesn't need it," the TBS told Carrie, "He's getting straight A's."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Carrie pointed out that it was taking Jordan 4 hours to do what others 
>>> do
>>> in
>>> an hour.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Things got nasty," she recalls, "The Director of Special Ed said my
>>> concerns were 'insulting to the staff.'"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> She started writing everyone including the school board and
>>> superintendent.
>>> Only one board member called acknowledging that she had been treated
>>> horribly, but insisted that they couldn't provide intense Braille
>>> training.
>>> Minnesota State Services for the Blind, however, sent Jordan to the 
>>> adult
>>> training program at Blind Inc.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> When he started, Jordan's Braille speed was forty-five to fifty words a
>>> minute.  For the next six weeks, the staff taught him the two-handed
>>> technique and told him he could read more than 60 words a minute. Jordan
>>> was motivated.  He was doing two hours of leisure reading daily; his 
>>> speed
>>> was up to seventy-five.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For ninth grade, Carrie told the new TBS that they only wanted materials
>>> from the school; any instruction would be at Blind Inc.  Between ninth 
>>> and
>>> tenth grade, Jordan went to the Louisiana Center for the Blind, another
>>> NFB
>>> facility:
>>>
>>> http://www.lcb-ruston.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "He really needed to get away from his parents and gain more
>>> independence,"
>>> she explains.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jordan started reading everywhere. In tenth grade, his speed was in the
>>> eighties for leisure reading. For his honors courses it was in the
>>> sixties.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Carrie says that Jordan's high school principal and teachers have been
>>> wonderful.   They have high expectations, and the new Special Ed 
>>> Director
>>> understands where they've come from.  Carrie wanted a cheerleader and
>>> coach,
>>> someone to motivate Jordan and encourage him and work on fundamentals.
>>> Every year since second grade, she had been asking for a reading
>>> specialist.
>>> She asked again in eleventh grade, and the Special Ed Director agreed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Carrie requested that the reading specialist sit with her back to Jordan
>>> and
>>> listen to him read, not knowing if he was reading print or Braille.  The
>>> reading specialist determined that Jordan's print reading was full of
>>> errors
>>> and hesitancy and his Braille was much better with no deficit.  She said
>>> it
>>> was about practice and encouragement.  She gave them ideas she used for
>>> print readers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "By that time," Carrie says with a laugh, "Nobody wanted to work with 
>>> me,
>>> though they all loved Jordan."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> But, the new Braille teacher did want to work with Carrie.  Carrie 
>>> didn't
>>> know why she should trust this new teacher. The new teacher agreed to 
>>> tell
>>> Carrie exactly what they would be working on.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "She's been teaching him three times a week for two years.  If books 
>>> came
>>> in
>>> plastic, he'd be reading in the shower!"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Now, as a senior, Jordan reads Braille at More than one hundred words a
>>> minute. For leisure reading, he's up to 125.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jordan will attend the University of Minnesota, Twin Cities campus next
>>> fall.  He is interested in constitution law, human rights and political
>>> science.  He says that, if he makes it to the Supreme Court, he's going 
>>> to
>>> re institute wigs.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "He'll be OK," his mother says with tears of relief in her voice, "125 
>>> is
>>> OK.  He can still increase it and he can survive in college and he 
>>> enjoys
>>> reading and chooses to do it.  If he had gotten Braille all along, maybe
>>> he'd be at 200 words a minute.  Every time he reads, I thank god I hung
>>> onto
>>> that.  His print reading speed never improved.  He wouldn't have made it
>>> without Braille."
>>>
>>>
>>> Read Donna's articles on
>>> Suite 101:
>>>
>>> http://suite101.com/donna-w-hill
>>>
>>> Connect with Donna on
>>> Twitter:
>>> www.twitter.com/dewhill
>>> LinkedIn:
>>> www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
>>> FaceBook:
>>> www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill
>>>
>>> Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at:
>>> cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
>>>
>>> Apple I-Tunes
>>> phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=259244374
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Writers Division web site
>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>> stylist mailing list
>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
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>>> stylist:
>>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmai
>>> l.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Writers Division web site
>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>> stylist mailing list
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>>> stylist:
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>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet
>> .net
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
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>> stylist mailing list
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>> l.com
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>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site
>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>> stylist mailing list
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>>
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>> stylist mailing list
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>>
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>> stylist:
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>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site
> http://www.writers-division.net/
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> stylist:
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_______________________________________________
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------------------------------

Message: 18
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 22:08:45 -0500
From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Definition of blindness
Message-ID: <351CA44D911545BC850881C08F6CA559 at Lambert>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
    reply-type=response

The person who asks this has no idea what that term even means, I would bet. 
It is just asked for something to say.

Lynda

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Anita Ogletree" <yrstrli at gmail.com>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 8:05 PM
Subject: Re: [stylist] Definition of blindness

> Actually, it doesn't.  The only time I ever think but is when someone asks 
> am I legally blind.
> Anita
>
>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net
>>To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org
>>Date sent: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 10:25:58 -0500
>>Subject: Re: [stylist] Definition of blindness
>
>>This is my thought, too!
>>Is there some kind of litnus test we must take to be part of the
> group?
>>And, must the group itself be broken down into little squares on
> a grid?
>>Creating various definitions for each of us only serves to
> fratgment us more
>>than we already might be.
>>We have a common bond in that we all have situations to deal with
> due to
>>various eye conditions.  I think we can just be who we are
> without labels,
>>don't you?
>>Lynda
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" <bpollpeter at hotmail.com
>>To: <stylist at nfbnet.org
>>Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 11:53 PM
>>Subject: [stylist] Definition of blindness
>
>
>>> Anita,
>
>>> Does it matter?
>
>>> Bridgit
>>> Message: 8
>>> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 20:21:43 -0500
>>> From: Anita Ogletree <yrstrli at gmail.com
>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Sending this again: Article
>>> showingwhatparentsofblind kids are facing
>>> Message-ID: <5121823f.467b3a0a.1275.ffffa94c at mx.google.com
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>>> There are three separate categories for which individuls without
>>> sight are identified: totally blind, legally blind and visually
>>> impaired.  Totally blind--if I understand correctly--are those
>>> who have no light perception.
>>> Visually impaired are those persons who are able to use
>>> magnifying devices to enlarge printed documents, etc.  What
>>> exactly does the term "legally blind" mean?
>>> I was told all of my life that I am totally blind but I have
>>> light perception.  I see objects but no shapes.  Every now and
>>> then I can guess a particular color depending on how the
> lighting
>>> in a room is.  I am able to tell when people are walking by me
>>> when they are only a couple feet in front of me and I can do
> that
>>> if I am sitting in a parked car or some other place.  I can see
>>> the shadows of trees, poles, buildings and so on when I look out
>>> of the window of a car.
>>> My question is this: what category would I fit into? My optic
>>> nerve is damaged so the medical terminology is optic atrophyddI
>>> ask this because the so-called "experts" have not been able to
>>> give me an answer.
>
>
>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Writers Division web site
>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>> stylist mailing list
>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>>> stylist:
>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40z
> oominternet.net
>
>
>
>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Writers Division web site
>>http://www.writers-division.net/
>>stylist mailing list
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>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for stylist:
>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/yrstrli%40gm
> ail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
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> http://www.writers-division.net/
> stylist mailing list
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> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> stylist:
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> 

------------------------------

Message: 19
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 22:11:12 -0500
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness
    field
Message-ID: <52E13A51BB5A4FEABCB1585FAFD8439D at OwnerPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
    reply-type=response

Lynda,
Perhaps some of us should write articles about working with blind 
professionals. Its nice to have role models.
I agree with Robert. They  don't want to hire blind professionals because of 
low expectations and because of the driving factor.
If you visit people's homes you have to have a driver's license to drive or
get them to hire a driver.
I bet more sighted people work in rehab agencies.
Its only at nfb centers that hiring blind people is prefered.
Ashley
-----Original Message----- 
From: Lynda Lambert
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 10:16 AM
To: Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness field

This is really interesting to have this discussion.
My experiences are so limited in this field.

When I was at the rehab. center, the former director asked our group one day
"How many of you are members of NFB?"  I had never heard of NFB so had no
clue what he wanted to know.  No one in the group raised their hand. He
said, "Good!  I hat the NFB." Then he went on to talk about the
organization.

My local blind assoc. seems to be quite proud to announce to us that
"everyone working for them must have a driver's license." With a smile, for
sure.
So what you are saying here makes sense from just my little corner of the
world view here. I only had ONE rehab teacher who is blind, during my 15
weeks there.
I would have LOVED to have a blind mobility teacher -

Lynda

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert Leslie Newman" <newmanrl at cox.net>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 9:14 AM
Subject: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness field

> Guys
> Back when I started working for the commission for the Blind here in
> Nebraska, back in the seventies, our federation had the mindset (this is a
> generalization) that if you as a blind person had one of those jobs, then
> you were suspect, as in you had gone over to the other side, that of the
> enemy! (This was the state of relations between the progressive blind and
> the rehab services.) Boy, back then, in a NFB chapter around here, you
> mostly weren't encouraged to try and become an officer, because it was
> feared that you would be a spy for the rehab side, and would be pushing
> their (the bad guys) agenda. But --- this all changed. Here in Nebraska 
> and
> in New Mexico and maybe in some other states, the NFB got the bad agency
> head folks fired and had a hand in who and what changes had to occur ---  
> and
> so the NFB philosophy got the upper hand. And then, it became respectful 
> for
> NFB members to be part of the rehab scene. (Here in the Omaha chapter we
> still have one older member, like in the 80's who doesn't like seeing a
> rehab professional being in a leadership position.)
>
> Think of it, one of the larger and more active NFB Division's is the
> Rehabilitation Professionals.
>
> #2 Taking a serious look at job opportunities for the blind in blind 
> related
> professions --- count up the number of rehab agencies and/or other 
> services
> around the country and add up how many blind folks are working within them
> and I bet that number is not as great as you think!!! Consider, that in
> general, the not so good agencies who have low expectations are the ones
> that will more than likely hire only a few token blind workers. And the
> better rehab services, which are the minority in this nationwide group 
> that
> we are looking at --- sure, they may have more blind guys on staff.
> (Nebraska at present has 1 blind related rehab service only. They have a
> total staff at the commission that numbers around 55 and 17 are blind. All
> other employed blind people work in a variety of other jobs; Nebraska is 
> one
> of the better states for employment of the blind and there are a bunch of
> folks that are doing all kinds of jobs.) So watch that thought of yours,
> that there are a big number of blind folks working in blind related 
> jobs ---
> for either reason of- A. That is where they are accepted. Or B. That it is
> the job that the blind think of first as to what they can do.
>
> (Just my rambling for this morning.)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J.
> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 7:08 AM
> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Working in blindness field
>
> Bridget,
>
> Could it be that more of the state board members and generally more really
> active members of the NFB are working in the blindness field because
> blindness is their passion?It makes sense to me that if promoting
> opportunities for blind people was your life's mission that you'd work in
> that field and be more active within an organization that supported you. I
> do think all blind people have an interest in achieving true equality for
> blind people. However I think for some it is their major life's work, 
> while
> for others of us it is something we do when we can around our other main
> pursuits. So it makes sense to me that there would be a large number of
> people within the NFB that do or want to work in the blindness field.
>
> I've been blind for around 20 years now.  While I do know quite a few 
> blind
> people who work in the blindness field, I'd say I know a larger number who
> don't.  Perhaps that's because I have never been very involved in 
> leadership
> within the NFB.  It does seem that those in leadership positions do work 
> in
> the blindness field much more frequently.  Again that makes sense to me 
> due
> to their strong interest and commitment to the cause.
>
> Julie
>
>
>
> On 2/17/2013 11:13 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote:
>> Ashley,
>>
>> Without actual stats, we can't really debate this, but that being said,
>> I beg to differ, at least to a degree.
>>
>> I don't think anyone here is trying to make generalizations seeing as we
>> all are blind, but we are all speaking from our experiences and personal
>> observations.
>>
>> In the ten years I've been blind, which isn't long compared to some,
>> I've met more blind people working in a blindness-related field or
>> hoping to be employed in a blindness related field. For every lawyer,
>> teacher and computer programmer I've met, I've met ten who worked in a
>> job relating to blindness.
>>
>> There's nothing wrong with this, and most of us would agree that blind
>> people need to be working in these fields, but I also think it can
>> become a safety net for some; not all, but many.
>>
>> I've been to NFB conventions, and yes, there are people employed in
>> various fields, and many scholarship winners plan to, or are, pursuing a
>> myriad of career paths, but again, for every one of these people I've
>> met, I've met a dozen working in the blindness field. Or many of these
>> people end up in a blindness field despite their choice of degree.
>>
>> And having heard several scholarship winners speak at conventions, a
>> good number of them hope to work in some way in a blindness field or
>> teaching the blind. Again, nothing wrong with this, and we do need blind
>> people doing this, but, for me, it shows how many blind people go into a
>> blindness related field.
>>
>> And in our affiliate, most of the leadership either works in the
>> blindness field or hopes too. Of our eleven state board members, only
>> two are employed outside of a blindness field, and one is working
>> towards a degree so they can work in a blindness job.
>>
>> More and more blind people are seeking opportunities outside of a
>> blindness related career, but many are still drawn to the field for
>> whatever reason. Again, we need strong, competent blind people in this
>> field, but we also need to consider what we truly want as a person and
>> not a blind person.
>>
>> And a side note, I don't think Lynda meant anything negative by her
>> comments nor was she implying all blind people work in a blindness
>> related field. She was merely detailing her experience and speaking to
>> that experience alone.
>>
>> Bridgit
>>
>> Message: 11
>> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 22:28:29 -0500
>> From: "Ashley Bramlett"<bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List"<stylist at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Sending this again: Article
>> showingwhatparentsofblindkids are facing
>> Message-ID:<D073072BEB3F4E1F938EB6B7A6FF190A at OwnerPC>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>> reply-type=response
>>
>> Lynda,
>> I beg to differ. Have you been to a nfb convention?
>> There are people employed in all walks of life and most scholarship
>> winners
>> have a career aspiration in a non blindness field; they include future
>> teachers, therapists, researchers,  counselors, and doctors.
>> Most blind people I know work either in the IT field as computer
>> programmers
>> or in the government, far from the blindness
>> fields! Read the braille monitor and you will see the wide variety of
>> fields
>> too!
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> http://www.writers-division.net/
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> stylist:
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>>
>>
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>>
>>
>
>
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End of stylist Digest, Vol 106, Issue 31
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