[stylist] Definition of blindness and pursuing goals

[Anita Ogletree]

I agree.  That's why support groups are formed.  That's the 
message God is giving to us when the Bible says that we should 
bare one another's burden.
When we do this it is like rejoicing when someone in the family 
gets married, graduates from college or has a baby.  We 
celebrate.
Anita

> ----- Original Message -----
>From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net
>To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 12:25:00 -0500
>Subject: Re: [stylist] Definition of blindness and pursuing goals

>Go, JULIE! We are with you on this.
>My goal this past couple of weeks has been to simply knit a pair 
of socks
>again.  Since sight loss 5 years ago, I have tried it numerous 
times, only to
>fail and be frustrated.  But, this time, I was determined to do 
it and I just
>kept on ripping out and ripping out and kept on trying.  I sought 
some advice
>from my Krafter-Korner friends and got the  encouragement from 
them - and I
>knew if they can do it so can I.  I now have one sock done and am 
working on
>it's mate.  Just a little thing, a sock.  But, it isn't about the 
socks
>really, It is about re-learning to do something I used to do - 
and I cannot
>wait to be sporting my hot new socks in a few days.  Just a 
little goal, as
>you say, but it has been burning in me for five years.  Yes, all 
the little
>goals are steps that lead us to other things.
>Our  big goal plan has to be broken down into those baby steps.
>I sure agree with you about the dream keeping us awake at night 
and burning
>in our soul.  Thanks for your inspiration today.  We all need to 
keep each
>other inspired and encouraged.

>Lynda





>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Julie J." <julielj at neb.rr.com
>To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org
>Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 11:14 AM
>Subject: Re: [stylist] Definition of blindness and pursuing goals


>>I agree wholeheartedly with Bridget.  The only thing I'd add is 
that it
>>isn't a goal if it doesn't keep you awake at night.  If you don't
>>constantly think before taking any action, "will this help me 
reach my
>>goal?" then it isn't your goal.  If all your friends and family 
don't know
>>what your goal is, then it isn't the right goal for you.  
whatever your
>>goal is, it will light up your life.  You will naturally talk 
about it,
>>think about it, move toward it with every breath and every step 
you take.
>>You won't be tempted to do things that move you in other 
directions because
>>you won't be getting what you want.  Willpower won't be necessary 
because
>>doing what is necessary will be rewarding all by itself.

>> This doesn't mean there won't be days when you'd rather pull the 
covers
>> over your head and have a two year old fit when you don't want 
to do the
>> hard work.  That will happen, but the difference is that you 
will
>> understand that if you don't get up and get going you will not 
get what
>> you want.  It's all about giving up the comfort of the moment 
for the joy
>> of accomplishment.

>> I also don't think these goals and dreams need to be grandiose.  
You don't
>> have to be the first person to walk on Mars or discover a new 
animal
>> lurking in the ocean depths to have an awesome goal.    It just 
has to be
>> something meaningful to you.  and I mean really, really 
meaningful like at
>> a soul level.  Perhaps that's learning to meditate, or running a 
mini
>> marathon, joining a local club, asking someone on a 
date...whatever thing
>> you feel compelled to do.  It doesn't have to be a lifetime 
commitment
>> like a career either.

>> I work with young people on life skills like goal setting.  I 
find it
>> interesting that in the first session when I ask them what their 
goals are
>> I always get a career type of answer like, "I want to go to 
college to be
>> a fill in the blank".   or "I want to own my own business 
selling
>> widgets."  I never get answers like I want to learn spiritual 
practices
>> all over the world or I want to climb a mountain or I want to be 
fluent in
>> five languages or I want to have a family.  We are programmed 
from a young
>> age to think that having goals equals long term career planning.  
I think
>> a goal can be long term career plans, but it doesn't have to be 
and is
>> most frequently not.  Some of the most fulfilling things I have 
done in my
>> life have had nothing to do with my career.

>> I kinda got carried away there.  *smile*  I love to think about 
this stuff
>> and write about it too, apparently.  thanks for the good 
discussion.

>> Julie


>> On 2/19/2013 9:26 AM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote:
>>> But socio-economic situation is not the same as not following a 
goal
>>> because of a disability.  The economy sucks now for everyone, 
but people
>>> can still set goals and take steps to achieve those goals.

>>> An excuse is an excuse.  We need to be realistic, and yes, we 
will
>>> require work experience and training.  A doctor doesn't just 
start a
>>> career in medicine.  They have to go to school, do an internship 
and
>>> fellowship before they reach that point.  A journalist will work 
the
>>> crummy jobs perhaps even being a personal assistant before 
writing those
>>> headlines.  Teachers need school as well along with student 
teaching and
>>> taking a certification exam.  Most of these people will have 
worked all
>>> sorts of jobs to support them through to their end goal; this 
doesn't
>>> mean you won't end up at that goal.  If you say it's impossible, 
then it
>>> will be.  You don't know what is possible until you try; and I 
mean
>>> really try.

>>> Justice Sonia Soto mayor has worked hard and overcome a lot of 
odds to
>>> become the first Latina Supreme Court Justice.

>>> Justice Sotomayor's parents were immigrants, and her father only 
had a
>>> third-grade education.  She grew up in the Bronx in extreme 
poverty.  She
>>> didn't speak fluent English until she started grammar school.

>>> While watching Perry Mason, she decided at age ten she wanted to
>>> practice law.

>>> She defied odds and attended Princeton University, but upon 
arriving her
>>> first term, she was unsure.  According to herself, her written 
and verbal
>>> communication skills were not up to par, and she lacked a basic
>>> education in the classics, which most of her fellow students had 
been
>>> immersed in for years.

>>> She also was one of the few Latinas to attend Princeton or go 
into her
>>> chosen field.  She became an advocate along the way, enacting a 
lot of
>>> change for Latinos.

>>> After graduating from Princeton, she was accepted into Yale's 
law
>>> school, and again, she was one of a handful of Latinos to 
attend.  While
>>> at Yale, she was the editor for its student-ran newspaper.  
People,
>>> including profs and employers were still skeptical however.

>>> During school, she worked various jobs including as a Spanish
>>> interpreter and at a hospital as a receptionist.  She was 
initially
>>> denied full-time jobs at law firms upon graduating with her JD 
from
>>> Yale, but we are all now familiar as Justice Sotomayor is now a 
judge in
>>> the highest court in the country.  She had a goal and was 
determined to
>>> pursue it.  Keep in mind that she did this at a time when 
Latinos and
>>> women were still not fully welcomed at university and and in 
employment
>>> especially the law.

>>> So yeah, this is one person, but there are a hundred other 
stories like
>>> it.  If you want something, you take those steps and go for it.  
It won't
>>> be easy and a lot of steps will happen along the way, but it is
>>> possible.  I think a defeatist attitude does nothing to change 
this or
>>> pave a way for anyone.

>>> Had I listened to my detractors, I wouldn't have my darling baby 
boy
>>> now, and he's been the most rewarding thing in my life.  People 
said
>>> diabetes and blindness were insurmountable obstacles, but I took 
steps
>>> and educated myself.  I worked with a fleet of doctors to ensure 
my
>>> health was in good condition and remained so.  I followed every 
regimen
>>> set by these doctors.  And of course, blindness was never a 
consideration
>>> for Ross and I, and we have proven it's not the overwhelming 
barrier
>>> most believe.  I had a goal, and I did what I had to to achieve 
it.  I've
>>> never been so healthy, smile.  I never indulged during my 
pregnancy, I
>>> continued to exercise, ate healthier than I ever have and 
followed my
>>> diabetes management to a T.  I have a beautiful baby and my 
health is in
>>> tact.  And as a bonus, I only have about five more pounds to go 
before
>>> I'm back to pre-pregnancy weight, grin.

>>> Bridgit
>>> Message: 4
>>> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 22:37:08 -0500
>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett"<bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Definition of blindness
>>> Message-ID:<A17D89EF8EB642D6B9D27C844103A346 at OwnerPC
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>> reply-type=response

>>> Lynda,
>>> But what you all are failing to remember if that you have to 
meet labels
>>> or
>>> visual criteria for services.
>>> You cannot get rehab unless you meet some visual criteria.
>>> You cannot even qualify for free hadley school courses unless 
you in
>>> fact prove you have a vision loss significant enough to hinder 
your
>>> daily life functioning.

>>> So labels do matter.  Btw, in your example, if that woman had 
her eyes
>>> checked regularly, I bet she would have been deemed legally 
blind
>>> sooner.

>>> Ashley

>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Lynda Lambert
>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 4:35 PM
>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Definition of blindness

>>> this is so accurate.
>>> Two years ago I was connected to a lady who needed help due to 
sight
>>> loss.  When I contacted her, she told me she didn't need help 
because she
>>> was not "legally blind."  She told me she was not "ready to go 
there." I
>>> just gave her my information and told her if at any time she 
needed my
>>> help, just contact me.  In about a year, I got an urgent email 
from this
>>> woman.  She lamented she cannot read the labels in her gallery 
(she is an
>>> art gallery owner), could not see to do the book work, use the 
computer,
>>> cannot read the box directions to bake a cake, and cannot read a 
book to
>>> her grandson - she was really frantic at this point.  Again, she 
told me
>>> she could not have any help because she is not "legally blind." 
I told
>>> her that is not true (and I knew with her description of 
problems she
>>> was certainly lower than the label of legally blind would be.

>>> I contacted the district rehab.  for help in knowing what to do.  
It was
>>> not long before she finally made that phone call, and help was 
on the
>>> way.  That was last fall.  She just sent me an email this week - 
talking
>>> about how happy she is to be able to run her business all by 
herself,
>>> and she can even paint again with the help of an Acrobat.  Her 
life is
>>> now much better and she feels more in control.

>>> Because someone had somehow put a label on her, even though it 
was a
>>> wrong one, she would have never had the help she needed.  
Putting labels
>>> on things just creates so many more problems for us all.

>>> If you watch the Rita Dove video I sent out for our discussion 
on Sunday
>>> night, you will hear her talk about these very same things that 
she
>>> experienced as a very young school child.  Rita Dove was labeled 
in 2nd
>>> grade by another little girl who she thought was her friend - 
lables can
>>> come from anywhere at any time, and they are not always put on 
us by
>>> professionals in the filed.

>>> Lynda







>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Bridgit Pollpeter"<bpollpeter at hotmail.com
>>> To:<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 2:51 PM
>>> Subject: [stylist] Definition of blindness


>>>> But we don't need to be defined or boxed in to choose tools and
>>>> methods.  Labels like this tend to create, and perpetuate, a 
hierarchy
>>>> of blindness.  If blind, whatever the level, you are aware of 
the
>>>> situation and what you need to do.  To label you type of vision 
loss
>>>> just places an unnecessary distinction in my book.  What does a 
formal
>>>> definition or label do in terms of tools and methods? In most
>>>> situations, these labels are what box us in such as low vision
>>>> students being denied Braille education or cane travel.  It says
>>>> visually impaired seniors don't need alternative skills 
training.  It
>>>> denies services and alternative skills training to a lot of 
people
>>>> because of this label.  You have low vision so you can strain to 
use
>>>> that vision.  You are totally blind so you don't need education 
because
>>>> you have little opportunities.  I don't want to be known as the 
blind
>>>> girl; I just want to be the girl with a talent, with a 
personality,
>>>> with an opinion...  Labels do nothing to bring equality.

>>>> Bridgit
>>>> Message: 4
>>>> Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 23:58:23 -0500
>>>> From: "justin williams"<justin.williams2 at gmail.com
>>>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Definition of blindness
>>>> Message-ID:<008901ce0ccb$6a3d9c00$3eb8d400$@gmail.com
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>>>> Yeah it actually might.  You should want to know as much about
>>>> yourself as possible.  When experts can't give you an answer 
that's
>>>> kind of pathetic.  It is good she knows how much she can use 
what
>>>> limited sight she has.  Use every tool in the tool box, but 
always use
>>>> the best tool for the job.


>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>>> stylist:

>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40z
oominte
>>> rnet.net


>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Writers Division web site
>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>> stylist mailing list
>>> stylist at nfbnet.org 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>> stylist:
>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%
40earth
>>> link.net




>>> ------------------------------

>>> Message: 5
>>> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 22:45:50 -0500
>>> From: Henrietta Brewer<gary.brewer at comcast.net
>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Definition of blindness
>>> Message-ID:<12452FCF-2AC4-45E8-AF6D-A6CE330856AC at comcast.net
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

>>> Think of this, there is nothing about who we are that says 
blind.  Our
>>> eyes are like a window.  The only problem we have is someone 
pulled the
>>> shades down.  The window is open and we can hear everything 
outside but
>>> the shades being closed we have to create the pictures 
ourselves.

>>> Now, blind, that is the person who isn't willing to create the 
pictures.
>>> The sighted  person, or blind for that matter, who allows the 
window to
>>> be closed too.  They are missing all that is outside of them.  
Henrietta
>>> On Feb 18, 2013, at 9:52 PM, Donna Hill wrote:

>>>> Bridgit,
>>>> You hit on the reason we have the terms.  It has to do with 
"services"
>>>> and is perpetuated by the professionals -- not that we don't
>>>> perpetuate it ourselves.  Braille isn't for low vision students.  
It's
>>>> better for them to strain their eyes, get headaches, have no 
life and
>>>> fall behind -- at least they aren't blind.  I agree with you 
that we're
>>>> all in this together, but I also think that the labels we've 
been
>>>> given by doctors, teachers and rehab counsellors impact our 
lives,
>>>> many times in ways that are similar to what has happened to 
others
>>>> carrying around the same labels.  Donna

>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Bridgit
>>>> Pollpeter
>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 2:51 PM
>>>> To: stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> Subject: [stylist] Definition of blindness

>>>> But we don't need to be defined or boxed in to choose tools and
>>>> methods.  Labels like this tend to create, and perpetuate, a 
hierarchy
>>>> of blindness.  If blind, whatever the level, you are aware of 
the
>>>> situation and what you need to do.  To label you type of vision 
loss
>>>> just places an unnecessary distinction in my book.  What does a 
formal
>>>> definition or label do in terms of tools and methods? In most
>>>> situations, these labels are what box us in such as low vision
>>>> students being denied Braille education or cane travel.  It says
>>>> visually impaired seniors don't need alternative skills 
training.  It
>>>> denies services and alternative skills training to a lot of 
people
>>>> because of this label.  You have low vision so you can strain to 
use
>>>> that vision.  You are totally blind so you don't need education 
because
>>>> you have little opportunities.  I don't want to be known as the 
blind
>>>> girl; I just want to be the girl with a talent, with a 
personality,
>>>> with an opinion...  Labels do nothing to bring equality.

>>>> Bridgit
>>>> Message: 4
>>>> Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 23:58:23 -0500
>>>> From: "justin williams"<justin.williams2 at gmail.com
>>>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Definition of blindness
>>>> Message-ID:<008901ce0ccb$6a3d9c00$3eb8d400$@gmail.com
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>>>> Yeah it actually might.  You should want to know as much about
>>>> yourself as possible.  When experts can't give you an answer 
that's
>>>> kind of pathetic.  It is good she knows how much she can use 
what
>>>> limited sight she has.  Use every tool in the tool box, but 
always use
>>>> the best tool for the job.


>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>>> stylist:
>>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/penatwork%40
epix.
>>>> net


>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>>> stylist:
>>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/gary.brewer%
40com
>>>> cast.net



>>> ------------------------------

>>> Message: 6
>>> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 23:47:47 -0500
>>> From: "justin williams"<justin.williams2 at gmail.com
>>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in 
blindness
>>> field
>>> Message-ID:<000001ce0d93$19c33460$4d499d20$@gmail.com
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>>> I wish you had punched her too.

>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Donna
>>> Hill
>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 9:47 PM
>>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in 
blindness
>>> field

>>> Lynda,
>>>   Yes, there are many marginalized kids and adults in this 
world, and
>>> with the recession more than before.  It is enfuriating when you 
think of
>>> the "privileged" and how much they take for granted and how they 
have
>>> insullation against their own short-comings and bad decisions.  
Good for
>>> your daughter trying to help them.

>>> By the time I got to junior high, they were asking kids to 
choose either
>>> college prep or commercial as a course of study to pursue 
starting in
>>> the eighth grade.  I chose college prep, but I had an encounter 
with a
>>> fellow 7th grader that really riled me up.  She was the daughter 
of a
>>> Lafayette College professor.  She came to school on the morning 
we were
>>> to make our decisions final and sought me out.  She explained, 
in what I
>>> thought was a rather haughty manner, that her father was a 
professor and
>>> that she discussed my situation with him at dinner the night 
before.  She
>>> knew I wanted to take college prep.  She said that the entire 
family had
>>> agreed that it would be a mistake for me to consider going to 
college;
>>> there simply was no way I could do the work.  I wish I had 
punched her,
>>> but alas, I didn't.  Donna

>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Lynda
>>> Lambert
>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 2:27 PM
>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in 
blindness
>>> field

>>> Donna,
>>> Wow, you perked up my memory, too.  yes, it was that same 
dexterity test
>>> that I took, with pegs and holes.  But, being the obsessive 
compulsive
>>> and over achiever that I am, well, I aced it! Therefore, I was 
"pegged"
>>> to be put into the proper hole for my future good.  lol  It was 
the law
>>> that they had to give those tests to students, and they had to 
have a
>>> meeting with every student at least one time  during the 4 years 
of high
>>> school.  My meeting took place after the test was given, just 
before I
>>> graduated - so it would be "legal."

>>> The other criteria that I see on looking back on all this stuff 
is that
>>> only the kids from professional backgrounds at home (their 
parents),
>>> were marked for going on to college.  The rest, were pegged for 
manual
>>> labor in a factory, despite intelligence testing.  Children who 
came
>>> from the blue collar families were seldom, and I do mean very 
seldom,
>>> ever encouraged to even think of anything else.  Marginalization 
really
>>> begins in the earliest years of life - and it still does - and 
that has
>>> far more to do with economic issues than it does a disability 
issue.

>>> My daughter is the librarian of a very FANCY and elite new 
school..  Of
>>> the 600 students who are there, all but 40 of those students 
come from
>>> fairly wealthy families and are "entitled" - she asked me 
recently, "Do
>>> you think those 40 children do not stand out like a sore thumb? 
"  When
>>> they have a book fair, many of those children have a "budget" of 
about
>>> $50.  to spend on books that day.  The other 40 children come up 
to her
>>> with some small change in their hand and ask if there is 
anything they
>>> can buy with it!  Not only are they children who are completely 
out of
>>> place in the economic picture, they are really denied basic 
rights to
>>> even own a book because they have no money to buy one.  (She is 
creating
>>> some clever ways to get books into their hands anyway, but it 
will be at
>>> her own expense.)

>>> I do believe that no matter how marginalized people with 
blindness feel,
>>> there are zillions of others who are also marginalized  as well 
by our
>>> education system, and uncaring entitled class.

>>> In the small rural town where I live, over 42 percent of the 
children in
>>> our school district are children from below the poverty line.  
Their
>>> parents, for the most part, are the "working poor." They work 2 
jobs
>>> each, and therefore the children are left to fend for themselves 
because
>>> Mom and Dad are working day and night just to survive.  I don't 
think we
>>> can be very optimistic about the future of that 42 percent here, 
do you?
>>> Just makes me sick.  Lynda




>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Donna Hill"<penatwork at epix.net
>>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 1:11 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in 
blindness
>>> field


>>>> Lynda,
>>>> You bring up one of those similarities I'm always talking about
>>>> between the blindness movement and other civil rights movements.  
Years
>>>> ago, the normal perception of women did not include much in the 
way of
>>>> career-readiness.
>>>> Sure, women had to work in factories in WWII to support the war
>>>> effort, but as for careers, you could teach or be a nurse; that 
was
>>>> about it.  The underlying message was that when it came to what 
was
>>>> best for women, men knew best .  Fortunately, we have come a 
long way,
>>>> baby!

>>>> The whole erasers on pencils thing has dredged up another 
memory.  When
>>>> I was in junior high, they made me take a test of my manual 
dexterity,
>>>> which I didn't think at the time was something that other kids 
got. .
>>>> It involved putting pegs into holes on a board -- literally the 
square
>>>> peg in the round hole kind of thing.  I was overpowered by the
>>>> impression that, if I did well on this test, they would push me 
into
>>>> manual labor of some sort.  I didn't know what I could do, but I 
knew I
>>>> wasn't having fantasies about putting pegs in holes, so I 
"threw" the
>>>> test -- figuratively speaking.

>>>> I had a hard time with setting goals, because on some level I 
believed
>>>> that I couldn't do anything.  I had secret dreams of what I'd 
like to
>>>> do, but there was a real disconnect between that and having a 
plan.
>>>> The thing that kept me going was the knowledge that, whatever 
anyone
>>>> else said or how true it was, I didn't want those things to be 
true.
>>>> That's really all I had.
>>>> Goals came later.  My somewhat cynical version of the Plan A 
thing is
>>>> that if you strive for Plan A, you might not make it, but you 
might
>>>> make plan B.
>>>> If
>>>> you don't strive for plan A, you're not even going to make plan 
B.
>>>> Donna

>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Lynda
>>>> Lambert
>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 12:47 PM
>>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in 
blindness
>>>> field

>>>> Donna,
>>>> You might have been putting erasers in pencils - OMG!
>>>> Can you envision yourself in such a place? Never!
>>>> You are living proof of seeking out a goal that is a passion and 
going
>>>> for it.

>>>> When I graduated from high school, in the dark ages of course, I 
as
>>>> told by the counselor that I had really good hand and eye
>>>> coordination, so I should work our very well in a factory 
assembly
>>>> line.  Never mind that my IQ was already beyond that of a 
college
>>>> graduate - no, I should apply for a laborer job.  OMG.  I would 
have
>>>> been fired very quickly from such a job as I would have been 
there
>>>> daydreaming and imagining and I would have either had a bad 
accident,
>>>> or caused the entire place to be in shut down mode from 
something
>>>> stupid I would have done.

>>>> I could not do any kind of repetitive activity for even a day -
>>>> probably not even for an hour, really.  I really had a good 
laugh at
>>>> the thought of you doing the erasers, but then, that isn't 
really
>>>> funny when you follow it to it's end, is it?


>>>> When my students would sit down with me and we would discuss 
their
>>>> schedule and their plans for a major, I told them to never 
settle for
>>>> anything other than what they have a passion for - because if 
they do,
>>>> in mid-life they will be longing for the thing they wanted in 
the
>>>> first place - and so many people at mid-life are so unhappy with 
the
>>>> life they created for themselves.

>>>> Even if they are financially successful, the failure to pursue 
their
>>>> dream is still with them.  I have seen this many times.


>>>> Lynda



>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Donna Hill"<penatwork at epix.net
>>>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 12:29 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in 
blindness
>>>> field


>>>>> Good advice.
>>>>> Donna

>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Lynda
>>>>> Lambert
>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 12:24 PM
>>>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in 
blindness
>>>>> field

>>>>> I recommend the book, "Cockeyed" - which is available through 
library
>>>>> of congress for the reading machines we have - a teenager who 
was
>>>>> going blind, and became a professor of English - it is super 
funny -
>>>>> and yet so enlightening as to the high goals a person can 
achieve by
>>>>> never settling for Plan B.
>>>>> My advice, is, those who plan for Plan B, end up being there 
instead
>>>>> of at Plan A where they really wanted to be.
>>>>> I do not believe in settling for anything less than the absolute
>>>>> desire of your heart - Plan A is the only acceptable plan in my 
own
>>>>> life.  I am an advid believer in being completely outside the 
comfort
>>>>> level for as long as it takes to achieve your goals.  And, once 
you
>>>>> are "there" you continue to work your butt off without any 
excuses.
>>>>> Excellence is the only path worth following.

>>>>> Lynda





>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "justin williams"<justin.williams2 at gmail.com
>>>>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 10:52 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in 
blindness
>>>>> field


>>>>>> New Braska is all kinds of awesome.  Some states are better than
>>>>>> others.  Any field is open, but you may have to move to find it.
>>>>>> Aiwa is another good state.  Leaving out the venders and 
customer
>>>>>> service reps, no disrespect to any of the people in those 
fields,
>>>>>> human service or computer programming fields followed by 
professors
>>>>>> and lawyers seem to be where totals or braille users work.  This 
is
>>>>>> by no means cut and dry, and I am not including lo vision
>>>>>> applicants, because the better your sight, the more likely you 
will
>>>>>> be to have a job which is outside of that block of fiends that I
>>> just mentioned.
>>>>>> I've met braille users in just about every type of career field, 
but
>>>>>> keep in mind that a person who is blind does develop and 
emphasize a
>>>>>> slightly different skill set which naturally fits them better to
>>>>>> certain fields.  Going outside of those fields generally 
speaking,
>>>>>> will force the person to have to constantly perform at a higher
>>>>>> level of skill just to have a chance of success.  Of course, 
that is
>>>>>> possible.  But remember, I am making a basic statement.  Feel 
free
>>>>>> to enlighten me further.  Remember, I am saying this with the 
caveat
>>>>>> that anything is possible, and I have met Blind teachers, 
mechanics,
>>>>>> business owners who are not venders, cabinent makers, among 
others.
>>>>>> Not all of the teachers were teachers of the bisually impaired.
>>>>>> Some taught in standard classroom formats.  I have heard of 
blind
>>>>>> electricians, met travel agents, there you go, travel agent is
>>>>>> another field for the blind, and even read the article on the 
blind
>>>>>> doctor.  I think he is somewhere in canada.
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>>> Robert Leslie Newman
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 9:14 AM
>>>>>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>>>>>> Subject: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness
>>>>>> field

>>>>>> Guys
>>>>>> Back when I started working for the commission for the Blind 
here in
>>>>>> Nebraska, back in the seventies, our federation had the mindset
>>>>>> (this is a
>>>>>> generalization) that if you as a blind person had one of those 
jobs,
>>>>>> then you were suspect, as in you had gone over to the other 
side,
>>>>>> that of the enemy! (This was the state of relations between the
>>>>>> progressive blind and the rehab services.) Boy, back then, in a 
NFB
>>>>>> chapter around here, you mostly weren't encouraged to try and 
become
>>>>>> an officer, because it was feared that you would be a spy for 
the
>>>>>> rehab side, and would be pushing their (the bad guys) agenda.  
But
>>>>>> --- this all changed.  Here in Nebraska and in New Mexico and 
maybe
>>>>>> in some other states, the NFB got the bad agency head folks 
fired
>>>>>> and had a hand in who and what changes had to occur --- and so 
the
>>>>>> NFB philosophy got the upper hand.  And then, it became 
respectful
>>>>>> for NFB members to be part of the rehab scene.  (Here in the 
Omaha
>>>>>> chapter we still have one older member, like in the 80's who 
doesn't
>>>>>> like seeing a rehab professional being in a leadership 
position.)

>>>>>> Think of it, one of the larger and more active NFB Division's is 
the
>>>>>> Rehabilitation Professionals.

>>>>>> #2 Taking a serious look at job opportunities for the blind in 
blind
>>>>>> related professions --- count up the number of rehab agencies 
and/or
>>>>>> other services around the country and add up how many blind 
folks
>>>>>> are working within them and I bet that number is not as great as 
you
>>>>>> think!!! Consider, that in general, the not so good agencies who
>>>>>> have low expectations are the ones that will more than likely 
hire
>>>>>> only a few token blind workers.  And the better rehab services, 
which
>>>>>> are the minority in this nationwide group that we are looking at 
---
>>>>>> sure, they may have more blind guys on staff.
>>>>>> (Nebraska at present has 1 blind related rehab service only.  
They
>>>>>> have a total staff at the commission that numbers around 55 and 
17
>>> are
>>> blind.
>>>>>> All
>>>>>> other employed blind people work in a variety of other jobs;
>>>>>> Nebraska is one of the better states for employment of the blind 
and
>>>>>> there are a bunch of folks that are doing all kinds of jobs.) So
>>>>>> watch that thought of yours, that there are a big number of 
blind
>>>>>> folks working in blind related jobs --- for either reason of- A.
>>>>>> That is where they are accepted.  Or B.  That it is the job that 
the
>>>>>> blind think of first as to what they can do.

>>>>>> (Just my rambling for this morning.)

>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Julie
>>>>>> J.
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 7:08 AM
>>>>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Working in blindness field

>>>>>> Bridget,

>>>>>> Could it be that more of the state board members and generally 
more
>>>>>> really active members of the NFB are working in the blindness 
field
>>>>>> because blindness is their passion?It makes sense to me that if
>>>>>> promoting opportunities for blind people was your life's mission
>>>>>> that you'd work in that field and be more active within an
>>>>>> organization that supported you.
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> do think all blind people have an interest in achieving true
>>>>>> equality for blind people.  However I think for some it is their
>>>>>> major life's work, while for others of us it is something we do 
when
>>>>>> we can around our other main pursuits.  So it makes sense to me 
that
>>>>>> there would be a large number of people within the NFB that do 
or
>>>>>> want to work in the blindness field.

>>>>>> I've been blind for around 20 years now.  While I do know quite 
a
>>>>>> few blind people who work in the blindness field, I'd say I know 
a
>>>>>> larger number who don't.  Perhaps that's because I have never 
been
>>>>>> very involved in leadership within the NFB.  It does seem that 
those
>>>>>> in leadership positions do work in the blindness field much more
>>>>>> frequently.  Again that makes sense to me due to their strong
>>>>>> interest and commitment to the cause.

>>>>>> Julie



>>>>>> On 2/17/2013 11:13 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote:
>>>>>>> Ashley,

>>>>>>> Without actual stats, we can't really debate this, but that 
being
>>>>>>> said, I beg to differ, at least to a degree.

>>>>>>> I don't think anyone here is trying to make generalizations 
seeing
>>>>>>> as we all are blind, but we are all speaking from our 
experiences
>>>>>>> and personal observations.

>>>>>>> In the ten years I've been blind, which isn't long compared to
>>>>>>> some, I've met more blind people working in a blindness-related
>>>>>>> field or hoping to be employed in a blindness related field.  
For
>>>>>>> every lawyer, teacher and computer programmer I've met, I've met
>>>>>>> ten who worked in a job relating to blindness.

>>>>>>> There's nothing wrong with this, and most of us would agree that
>>>>>>> blind people need to be working in these fields, but I also 
think
>>>>>>> it can become a safety net for some; not all, but many.

>>>>>>> I've been to NFB conventions, and yes, there are people employed 
in
>>>>>>> various fields, and many scholarship winners plan to, or are,
>>>>>>> pursuing a myriad of career paths, but again, for every one of
>>>>>>> these people I've met, I've met a dozen working in the blindness
>>>>>>> field.  Or many of these people end up in a blindness field 
despite
>>>>>>> their choice of degree.

>>>>>>> And having heard several scholarship winners speak at 
conventions,
>>>>>>> a good number of them hope to work in some way in a blindness 
field
>>>>>>> or teaching the blind.  Again, nothing wrong with this, and we 
do
>>>>>>> need blind people doing this, but, for me, it shows how many 
blind
>>>>>>> people go into a blindness related field.

>>>>>>> And in our affiliate, most of the leadership either works in the
>>>>>>> blindness field or hopes too.  Of our eleven state board 
members,
>>>>>>> only two are employed outside of a blindness field, and one is
>>>>>>> working towards a degree so they can work in a blindness job.

>>>>>>> More and more blind people are seeking opportunities outside of 
a
>>>>>>> blindness related career, but many are still drawn to the field 
for
>>>>>>> whatever reason.  Again, we need strong, competent blind people 
in
>>>>>>> this field, but we also need to consider what we truly want as a
>>>>>>> person and not a blind person.

>>>>>>> And a side note, I don't think Lynda meant anything negative by 
her
>>>>>>> comments nor was she implying all blind people work in a 
blindness
>>>>>>> related field.  She was merely detailing her experience and 
speaking
>>>>>>> to that experience alone.

>>>>>>> Bridgit

>>>>>>> Message: 11
>>>>>>> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 22:28:29 -0500
>>>>>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett"<bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>>>>>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Sending this again: Article
>>>>>>> showingwhatparentsofblindkids are facing
>>>>>>> Message-ID:<D073072BEB3F4E1F938EB6B7A6FF190A at OwnerPC
>>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>>>>>> reply-type=response

>>>>>>> Lynda,
>>>>>>> I beg to differ.  Have you been to a nfb convention?
>>>>>>> There are people employed in all walks of life and most 
scholarship
>>>>>>> winners have a career aspiration in a non blindness field; they
>>>>>>> include future teachers, therapists, researchers,  counselors, 
and
>>>>>>> doctors.  Most blind people I know work either in the IT field 
as
>>>>>>> computer programmers or in the government, far from the 
blindness
>>>>>>> fields! Read the braille monitor and you will see the wide 
variety
>>>>>>> of fields too!


>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>> stylist:
>>>>>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/julielj%40ne
b.
>>>>>>> rr.
>>>>>>> com


>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>> No virus found in this message.
>>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>>>> Version: 2012.0.2238 / Virus Database: 2639/5610 - Release Date:
>>>>>>> 02/17/13



>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> stylist:

>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/newmanrl%40c
ox.net

>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> stylist:

>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/justin.willi
ams2%40
>>> gmai
>>>>>> l.com


>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> stylist:

>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40z
oominte
>>> rnet
>>>>> .net


>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>>>> stylist:
>>>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/penatwork%40
epix
>>>>> .net


>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>>>> stylist:

>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40z
oominte
>>> rnet
>>>> .net


>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>>> stylist:
>>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/penatwork%40
epix.
>>>> net


>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>>> stylist:

>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40z
oominte
>>> rnet
>>> .net


>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Writers Division web site
>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>> stylist mailing list
>>> stylist at nfbnet.org 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>> stylist:
>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/penatwork%40
epix.ne
>>> t


>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Writers Division web site
>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>> stylist mailing list
>>> stylist at nfbnet.org 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>> stylist:
>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/justin.willi
ams2%40
>>> gmai
>>> l.com




>>> ------------------------------

>>> Message: 7
>>> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 23:55:52 -0500
>>> From: "justin williams"<justin.williams2 at gmail.com
>>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Definition of blindness
>>> Message-ID:<000201ce0d94$3b21b9f0$b1652dd0$@gmail.com
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>>> I erased the message by mistake, but I like the Haveyou been 
blind all
>>> yourlife joke.  Lol.

>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Anita
>>> Ogletree
>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 8:05 PM
>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Definition of blindness

>>> Actually, it doesn't.  The only time I ever think but is when
>>> someone asks am I legally blind.
>>> Anita


>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Lynda Lambert"<llambert at zoominternet.net
>>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date sent: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 10:25:58 -0500
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Definition of blindness
>>>> This is my thought, too!
>>>> Is there some kind of litnus test we must take to be part of the
>>> group?
>>>> And, must the group itself be broken down into little squares on
>>> a grid?
>>>> Creating various definitions for each of us only serves to
>>> fratgment us more
>>>> than we already might be.
>>>> We have a common bond in that we all have situations to deal 
with
>>> due to
>>>> various eye conditions.  I think we can just be who we are
>>> without labels,
>>>> don't you?
>>>> Lynda





>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Bridgit Pollpeter"<bpollpeter at hotmail.com
>>>> To:<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 11:53 PM
>>>> Subject: [stylist] Definition of blindness

>>>>> Anita,
>>>>> Does it matter?
>>>>> Bridgit
>>>>> Message: 8
>>>>> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 20:21:43 -0500
>>>>> From: Anita Ogletree<yrstrli at gmail.com
>>>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Sending this again: Article
>>>>> showingwhatparentsofblind kids are facing
>>>>> Message-ID:<5121823f.467b3a0a.1275.ffffa94c at mx.google.com
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
>>>>> There are three separate categories for which individuls without
>>>>> sight are identified: totally blind, legally blind and visually
>>>>> impaired.  Totally blind--if I understand correctly--are those 
who
>>>>> have no light perception.  Visually impaired are those persons 
who are
>>>>> able to use magnifying devices to enlarge printed documents, 
etc.
>>>>> What exactly does the term "legally blind" mean?
>>>>> I was told all of my life that I am totally blind but I have
>>>>> light perception.  I see objects but no shapes.  Every now and
>>>>> then I can guess a particular color depending on how the
>>> lighting
>>>>> in a room is.  I am able to tell when people are walking by me 
when
>>>>> they are only a couple feet in front of me and I can do
>>> that
>>>>> if I am sitting in a parked car or some other place.  I can see 
the
>>>>> shadows of trees, poles, buildings and so on when I look out of 
the
>>>>> window of a car.  My question is this: what category would I fit 
into?
>>>>> My optic nerve is damaged so the medical terminology is optic
>>>>> atrophyddI ask this because the so-called "experts" have not 
been
>>>>> able to give me an answer.


>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>> info for
>>>>> stylist:

>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40z
>>> oominternet.net




>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info
>>> for stylist:
>>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/yrstrli%40gm
>>> ail.com

>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Writers Division web site
>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>> stylist mailing list
>>> stylist at nfbnet.org 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>> stylist:
>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/justin.willi
ams2%40
>>> gmai
>>> l.com




>>> ------------------------------

>>> Message: 8
>>> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 04:41:03 -0800 (PST)
>>> From: "babslady79 at bellsouth.net \(Erica Turner\)"
>>> <babslady79 at bellsouth.net
>>> To: stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> Cc: Erica Turner<babslady79 at bellsouth.net
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Message 12 (Braille)
>>> Message-ID:
>>> <1361277663.54639.YahooMailClassic at web181502.mail.ne1.yahoo.com
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

>>> I am currently learning Braille and JAWS right now.  I get 
braille first
>>> and then I go to JAWS training.  Since I am adapting to reading 
as well
>>> as writing braille I try my best to incoporate braille into 
everything
>>> that I write and read.  However, when I get to JAWS training 
it's hard to
>>> make the switch (smile).

>>> "Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine 
own
>>> understanding.  In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall 
direct thy
>>> paths." --Proverbs 3:5-6 (KJV)

>>> Erica Turner
>>> Home: 904-284-4511
>>> Cell: 904-881-1168
>>> E-mail: babslady79 at bellsouth.net

>>> --- On Mon, 2/18/13, stylist-request at nfbnet.org
>>> <stylist-request at nfbnet.org>  wrote:


>>> From: stylist-request at nfbnet.org<stylist-request at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: stylist Digest, Vol 106, Issue 31
>>> To: stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> Date: Monday, February 18, 2013, 10:11 PM


>>> Send stylist mailing list submissions to
>>> ??? stylist at nfbnet.org

>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>> ??? http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ???
>>> stylist-request at nfbnet.org

>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>> ??? stylist-owner at nfbnet.org

>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more 
specific than
>>> "Re: Contents of stylist digest..."


>>> Today's Topics:

>>> ???1.  Re: more on this subject of Working in blindness field
>>> ? ? ? (Donna Hill)
>>> ???2.  Re: more on this subject of Working in blindness field
>>> ? ? ? (justin williams)
>>> ???3.  Re: more on this subject of Working in blindness field
>>> ? ? ? (justin williams)
>>> ???4.  Re: more on this subject of Working in blindness field
>>> ? ? ? (Lynda Lambert)
>>> ???5.  Re: more on this subject of Working in blindness field
>>> ? ? ? (Lynda Lambert)
>>> ???6.  Re: a RANT (Barbara Hammel)
>>> ???7.  Definition of blindness (Bridgit Pollpeter)
>>> ???8.  Working in blindness field (Bridgit Pollpeter)
>>> ???9.  Definition of blindness (Bridgit Pollpeter)
>>> ? 10.  Re: Definition of blindness (Lynda Lambert)
>>> ? 11.  Re: a RANT (Lynda Lambert)
>>> ? 12.  Re: Braille (Anita Ogletree)
>>> ? 13.  Re: Definition of blindness (Anita Ogletree)
>>> ? 14.  Re: more on this subject of Working in blindness field
>>> ? ? ? (Donna Hill)
>>> ? 15.  Re: Definition of blindness (Donna Hill)
>>> ? 16.  Re: more on : Article showing what??? parents&  
kidsarefacing ? ?
>>> ? (Ashley Bramlett) ? 17.  Re: Sending this???
>>> again:Articleshowingwhatparentsofblindkids
>>> ? ? ? are facing (Ashley Bramlett)
>>> ? 18.  Re: Definition of blindness (Lynda Lambert)
>>> ? 19.  Re: more on this subject of Working in blindness field
>>> ? ? ? (Ashley Bramlett)


>>> 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
-----

>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 13:11:16 -0500
>>> From: "Donna Hill"<penatwork at epix.net
>>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in 
blindness ???
>>> field
>>> Message-ID:<299AA09923A14F619C18094E3743E6F7 at OwnerHP
>>> Content-Type: text/plain;??? charset="us-ascii"

>>> Lynda,
>>> You bring up one of those similarities I'm always talking about 
between
>>> the blindness movement and other civil rights movements.  Years 
ago, the
>>> normal perception of women did not include much in the way of?
>>> career-readiness.  Sure, women had to work in factories in WWII 
to
>>> support the war effort, but as for careers, you could teach or 
be a
>>> nurse; that was about it.  The underlying message was that when 
it came
>>> to what was best for women, men knew best .  Fortunately, we 
have come a
>>> long way, baby!

>>> The whole erasers on pencils thing has dredged up another 
memory.  When I
>>> was in junior high, they made me take a test of my manual 
dexterity,
>>> which I didn't think at the time was something that other kids 
got. .  It
>>> involved putting pegs into holes on a board -- literally the 
square peg
>>> in the round hole kind of thing.  I was overpowered by the 
impression
>>> that, if I did well on this test, they would push me into manual 
labor
>>> of some sort.  I didn't know what I could do, but I knew I 
wasn't having
>>> fantasies about putting pegs in holes, so I "threw" the test --
>>> figuratively speaking.

>>> I had a hard time with setting goals, because on some level I 
believed
>>> that I couldn't do anything.  I had secret dreams of what I'd 
like to do,
>>> but there was a real disconnect between that and having a plan.  
The
>>> thing that kept me going was the knowledge that, whatever anyone 
else
>>> said or how true it was, I didn't want those things to be true.  
That's
>>> really all I had.  Goals came later.  My somewhat cynical 
version of the
>>> Plan A thing is that if you strive for Plan A, you might not 
make it,
>>> but you might make plan B.  If you don't strive for plan A, 
you're not
>>> even going to make plan B.  Donna

>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Lynda
>>> Lambert
>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 12:47 PM
>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in 
blindness
>>> field

>>> Donna,
>>> You might have been putting erasers in pencils - OMG!
>>> Can you envision yourself in such a place? Never!
>>> You are living proof of seeking out a goal that is a passion and 
going
>>> for it.

>>> When I graduated from high school, in the dark ages of course, I 
as told
>>> by the counselor that I had really good hand and eye 
coordination, so I
>>> should work our very well in a factory assembly line.  Never 
mind that my
>>> IQ was already beyond that of a college graduate - no, I should 
apply
>>> for a laborer job.  OMG.  I would have been fired very quickly 
from such a
>>> job as I would have been there daydreaming and imagining and I 
would
>>> have either had a bad accident, or caused the entire place to be 
in shut
>>> down mode from something stupid I would have done.

>>> I could not do any kind of repetitive activity for even a day - 
probably
>>> not even for an hour, really.? I really had a good laugh at the 
thought
>>> of you doing the erasers, but then, that isn't really funny when 
you
>>> follow it to it's end, is it?


>>> When my students would sit down with me and we would discuss 
their
>>> schedule and their plans for a major, I told them to never 
settle for
>>> anything other than what they have a passion for - because if 
they do,
>>> in mid-life they will be longing for the thing they wanted in 
the first
>>> place - and so many people at mid-life are so unhappy with the 
life they
>>> created for themselves.

>>> Even if they are financially successful, the failure to pursue 
their
>>> dream is still with them.  I have seen this many times.


>>> Lynda



>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Donna Hill"<penatwork at epix.net
>>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 12:29 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in 
blindness
>>> field


>>>> Good advice.
>>>> Donna

>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Lynda
>>>> Lambert
>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 12:24 PM
>>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in 
blindness
>>> field
>>>> I recommend the book, "Cockeyed" - which is available through 
library
>>>> of congress for the reading machines we have - a teenager who 
was
>>>> going blind, and became a professor of English - it is super 
funny -
>>>> and yet so enlightening as to the high goals a person can 
achieve by
>>>> never settling for
>>>> Plan B.
>>>> My advice, is, those who plan for Plan B, end up being there 
instead
>>> of at
>>>> Plan A where they really wanted to be.
>>>> I do not believe in settling for anything less than the absolute
>>> desire of
>>>> your heart - Plan A is the only acceptable plan in my own life.  
I am
>>> an
>>>> advid believer in being completely outside the comfort level for 
as
>>> long
>>>> as
>>>> it takes to achieve your goals.  And, once you are "there" you 
continue
>>> to
>>>> work your butt off without any excuses.
>>>> Excellence is the only path worth following.

>>>> Lynda





>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "justin williams"<justin.williams2 at gmail.com
>>>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 10:52 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in 
blindness
>>>> field


>>>>> New Braska is all kinds of awesome.? Some states are better than
>>>>> others.  Any field is open, but you may have to move to find 
it.? Aiwa
>>>>> is another good state.? Leaving out the venders and customer 
service
>>>>> reps, no disrespect to any of the people in those fields, human
>>>>> service or computer programming fields followed by professors? 
and
>>>>> lawyers seem to be where totals or braille users work.? This is 
by no
>>>>> means cut and dry, and I am not
>>>>> including lo vision applicants, because the better your sight, 
the
>>> more
>>>>> likely you will be to have a job which is outside of that block 
of
>>> fiends
>>>>> that I just mentioned.? I've met braille users in just about 
every
>>> type
>>>>> of
>>>>> career field, but keep in mind that a person who is blind does
>>> develop
>>>>> and
>>>>> emphasize a slightly different skill set which naturally fits 
them
>>> better
>>>>> to
>>>>> certain fields.? Going outside of those fields generally 
speaking,
>>> will
>>>>> force the person to have to constantly perform at a higher level 
of
>>> skill
>>>>> just to have a chance of success.? Of course, that is possible.? 
But
>>>>> remember, I am making a basic statement.? Feel free to enlighten 
me
>>>>> further.? Remember, I am saying this with the caveat? that 
anything
>>> is
>>>>> possible, and I have met Blind teachers, mechanics, business 
owners
>>> who
>>>>> are
>>>>> not venders, cabinent makers, among others.? Not all of the 
teachers
>>> were
>>>>> teachers of the bisually impaired.? Some taught in standard 
classroom
>>>>> formats.? I have heard of blind electricians, met travel agents,
>>> there
>>>>> you
>>>>> go, travel agent is another field for the blind, and even read 
the
>>>>> article
>>>>> on the blind doctor.  I think he is somewhere in canada.
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Robert
>>>>> Leslie
>>>>> Newman
>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 9:14 AM
>>>>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>>>>> Subject: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness 
field

>>>>> Guys
>>>>> Back when I started working for the commission for the Blind 
here in
>>>>> Nebraska, back in the seventies, our federation had the mindset 
(this
>>>>> is a
>>>>> generalization) that if you as a blind person had one of those 
jobs,
>>>>> then you were suspect, as in you had gone over to the other 
side,
>>>>> that of the enemy! (This was the state of relations between the
>>>>> progressive blind and the rehab services.) Boy, back then, in a 
NFB
>>>>> chapter around here, you mostly weren't encouraged to try and 
become
>>>>> an officer, because it was feared that you would be a spy for 
the
>>>>> rehab side, and would be pushing their (the bad guys) agenda.  
But ---
>>>>> this all changed.  Here in Nebraska and in New Mexico and maybe 
in
>>>>> some other states, the NFB got the bad agency head folks fired 
and
>>>>> had a hand in who and what changes had to occur --- and
>>>>> so the NFB philosophy got the upper hand.  And then, it became
>>> respectful
>>>>> for
>>>>> NFB members to be part of the rehab scene.  (Here in the Omaha 
chapter
>>> we
>>>>> still have one older member, like in the 80's who doesn't like 
seeing
>>> a
>>>>> rehab professional being in a leadership position.)

>>>>> Think of it, one of the larger and more active NFB Division's is 
the
>>>>> Rehabilitation Professionals.

>>>>> #2 Taking a serious look at job opportunities for the blind in 
blind
>>>>> related professions --- count up the number of rehab agencies 
and/or
>>>>> other services
>>>>> around the country and add up how many blind folks are working 
within
>>>>> them
>>>>> and I bet that number is not as great as you think!!! Consider, 
that
>>> in
>>>>> general, the not so good agencies who have low expectations are 
the
>>> ones
>>>>> that will more than likely hire only a few token blind workers.  
And
>>> the
>>>>> better rehab services, which are the minority in this nationwide
>>> group
>>>>> that
>>>>> we are looking at --- sure, they may have more blind guys on 
staff.
>>>>> (Nebraska at present has 1 blind related rehab service only.  
They
>>> have a
>>>>> total staff at the commission that numbers around 55 and 17 are
>>> blind.
>>>>> All
>>>>> other employed blind people work in a variety of other jobs; 
Nebraska
>>> is
>>>>> one
>>>>> of the better states for employment of the blind and there are a
>>> bunch of
>>>>> folks that are doing all kinds of jobs.) So watch that thought 
of
>>> yours,
>>>>> that there are a big number of blind folks working in blind 
related
>>>>> jobs ---
>>>>> for either reason of- A.  That is where they are accepted.  Or 
B.  That
>>> it
>>>>> is
>>>>> the job that the blind think of first as to what they can do.

>>>>> (Just my rambling for this morning.)

>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Julie
>>>>> J.
>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 7:08 AM
>>>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Working in blindness field

>>>>> Bridget,

>>>>> Could it be that more of the state board members and generally 
more
>>>>> really
>>>>> active members of the NFB are working in the blindness field 
because
>>>>> blindness is their passion?It makes sense to me that if 
promoting
>>>>> opportunities for blind people was your life's mission that 
you'd
>>> work in
>>>>> that field and be more active within an organization that 
supported
>>> you.
>>>>> I
>>>>> do think all blind people have an interest in achieving true 
equality
>>> for
>>>>> blind people.  However I think for some it is their major life's 
work,
>>>>> while
>>>>> for others of us it is something we do when we can around our 
other
>>> main
>>>>> pursuits.  So it makes sense to me that there would be a large 
number
>>> of
>>>>> people within the NFB that do or want to work in the blindness 
field.

>>>>> I've been blind for around 20 years now.? While I do know quite 
a few
>>>>> blind people who work in the blindness field, I'd say I know a 
larger
>>>>> number who
>>>>> don't.? Perhaps that's because I have never been very involved 
in
>>>>> leadership
>>>>> within the NFB.? It does seem that those in leadership positions 
do
>>> work
>>>>> in
>>>>> the blindness field much more frequently.? Again that makes 
sense to
>>> me
>>>>> due
>>>>> to their strong interest and commitment to the cause.

>>>>> Julie



>>>>> On 2/17/2013 11:13 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote:
>>>>>> Ashley,

>>>>>> Without actual stats, we can't really debate this, but that 
being
>>>>>> said, I beg to differ, at least to a degree.

>>>>>> I don't think anyone here is trying to make generalizations 
seeing
>>>>>> as we all are blind, but we are all speaking from our 
experiences
>>>>>> and personal observations.

>>>>>> In the ten years I've been blind, which isn't long compared to 
some,
>>>>>> I've met more blind people working in a blindness-related field 
or
>>>>>> hoping to be employed in a blindness related field.  For every
>>>>>> lawyer, teacher and computer programmer I've met, I've met ten 
who
>>>>>> worked in a job relating to blindness.

>>>>>> There's nothing wrong with this, and most of us would agree that
>>>>>> blind people need to be working in these fields, but I also 
think it
>>>>>> can become a safety net for some; not all, but many.

>>>>>> I've been to NFB conventions, and yes, there are people employed 
in
>>>>>> various fields, and many scholarship winners plan to, or are,
>>>>>> pursuing a myriad of career paths, but again, for every one of 
these
>>>>>> people I've met, I've met a dozen working in the blindness 
field.  Or
>>>>>> many of these people end up in a blindness field despite their
>>>>>> choice of degree.

>>>>>> And having heard several scholarship winners speak at 
conventions, a
>>>>>> good number of them hope to work in some way in a blindness 
field or
>>>>>> teaching the blind.  Again, nothing wrong with this, and we do 
need
>>>>>> blind people doing this, but, for me, it shows how many blind 
people
>>>>>> go into a blindness related field.

>>>>>> And in our affiliate, most of the leadership either works in the
>>>>>> blindness field or hopes too.  Of our eleven state board 
members,
>>>>>> only two are employed outside of a blindness field, and one is
>>>>>> working towards a degree so they can work in a blindness job.

>>>>>> More and more blind people are seeking opportunities outside of 
a
>>>>>> blindness related career, but many are still drawn to the field 
for
>>>>>> whatever reason.  Again, we need strong, competent blind people 
in
>>>>>> this field, but we also need to consider what we truly want as a
>>>>>> person and not a blind person.

>>>>>> And a side note, I don't think Lynda meant anything negative by 
her
>>>>>> comments nor was she implying all blind people work in a 
blindness
>>>>>> related field.  She was merely detailing her experience and 
speaking
>>>>>> to that experience alone.

>>>>>> Bridgit

>>>>>> Message: 11
>>>>>> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 22:28:29 -0500
>>>>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett"<bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>>>>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Sending this again: Article
>>>>>> showingwhatparentsofblindkids are facing
>>>>>> Message-ID:<D073072BEB3F4E1F938EB6B7A6FF190A at OwnerPC
>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>>>>> reply-type=response

>>>>>> Lynda,
>>>>>> I beg to differ.  Have you been to a nfb convention?
>>>>>> There are people employed in all walks of life and most 
scholarship
>>>>>> winners have a career aspiration in a non blindness field; they
>>>>>> include future teachers, therapists, researchers,? counselors, 
and
>>>>>> doctors.  Most blind people I know work either in the IT field 
as
>>>>>> computer programmers or in the government, far from the 
blindness
>>>>>> fields! Read the braille monitor and you will see the wide 
variety
>>>>>> of fields too!


>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info
>>>>>> for
>>>>> stylist:
>>>>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/julielj%40ne
b.r
>>>>>> r.
>>>>>> com


>>>>>> -----
>>>>>> No virus found in this message.
>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>>> Version: 2012.0.2238 / Virus Database: 2639/5610 - Release Date:
>>>>>> 02/17/13



>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>>>> stylist:
>>>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/newmanrl%40c
ox.n
>>>>> et


>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>>>> stylist:

>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/justin.willi
ams2%40
>>> gmai
>>>>> l.com


>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>>>> stylist:

>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40z
oominte
>>> rnet
>>>> .net


>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>>> stylist:
>>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/penatwork%40
epix.
>>>> net


>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>>> stylist:

>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40z
oominte
>>> rnet
>>> .net


>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Writers Division web site
>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>> stylist mailing list
>>> stylist at nfbnet.org 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>> stylist:
>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/penatwork%40
epix.ne
>>> t




>>> ------------------------------

>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 13:32:45 -0500
>>> From: "justin williams"<justin.williams2 at gmail.com
>>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in 
blindness ???
>>> field
>>> Message-ID:<017b01ce0d3d$2ec87ba0$8c5972e0$@gmail.com
>>> Content-Type: text/plain;??? charset="us-ascii"

>>> Plan A? to me is the best in the long run, but one must decide 
whether
>>> it is attainable, and if so, how much effort one is willing to 
use.?
>>> The way I have advised clients in the past is to take into 
account the
>>> area in which they live,???as well as their skill set and level 
of
>>> ability.? In south Carolina, there are just some fields which 
would be
>>> nearly unattainable, not that you can't try, but be aware that 
the
>>> effort necessary may be greater than what you are willing to 
expend, or
>>> then what your resources to hand can sustain.? It may not be 
practical.?
>>> You may have to move to reach certain goals.? As long as you no 
that you
>>> may have to move, and that you are willing to switch states if
>>> necessary, then just about any dream is achievable.? This is no 
knock on
>>> intelligence.  The fields I mentioned before as blind friendly 
fields do
>>> not depend on sight.? In fields which don't depend on sight, the 
Blind?
>>> can use their other senses, memory, and tallents, as well as a 
strong
>>> will power.? Note.?
>>> Without sight, these abilities and skills are better on average 
than
>>> your sighted peers because you can't use sight as a crutch.? 
With the
>>> right toosl, you are more effective in certain respects then 
they are.?

>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Donna
>>> Hill
>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 1:11 PM
>>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in 
blindness
>>> field

>>> Lynda,
>>> You bring up one of those similarities I'm always talking about 
between
>>> the blindness movement and other civil rights movements.  Years 
ago, the
>>> normal perception of women did not include much in the way of?
>>> career-readiness.  Sure, women had to work in factories in WWII 
to
>>> support the war effort, but as for careers, you could teach or 
be a
>>> nurse; that was about it.  The underlying message was that when 
it came
>>> to what was best for women, men knew best .  Fortunately, we 
have come a
>>> long way, baby!

>>> The whole erasers on pencils thing has dredged up another 
memory.  When I
>>> was in junior high, they made me take a test of my manual 
dexterity,
>>> which I didn't think at the time was something that other kids 
got. .  It
>>> involved putting pegs into holes on a board -- literally the 
square peg
>>> in the round hole kind of thing.  I was overpowered by the 
impression
>>> that, if I did well on this test, they would push me into manual 
labor
>>> of some sort.  I didn't know what I could do, but I knew I 
wasn't having
>>> fantasies about putting pegs in holes, so I "threw" the test --
>>> figuratively speaking.

>>> I had a hard time with setting goals, because on some level I 
believed
>>> that I couldn't do anything.  I had secret dreams of what I'd 
like to do,
>>> but there was a real disconnect between that and having a plan.  
The
>>> thing that kept me going was the knowledge that, whatever anyone 
else
>>> said or how true it was, I didn't want those things to be true.  
That's
>>> really all I had.  Goals came later.  My somewhat cynical 
version of the
>>> Plan A thing is that if you strive for Plan A, you might not 
make it,
>>> but you might make plan B.  If you don't strive for plan A, 
you're not
>>> even going to make plan B.  Donna

>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Lynda
>>> Lambert
>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 12:47 PM
>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in 
blindness
>>> field

>>> Donna,
>>> You might have been putting erasers in pencils - OMG!
>>> Can you envision yourself in such a place? Never!
>>> You are living proof of seeking out a goal that is a passion and 
going
>>> for it.

>>> When I graduated from high school, in the dark ages of course, I 
as told
>>> by the counselor that I had really good hand and eye 
coordination, so I
>>> should work our very well in a factory assembly line.  Never 
mind that my
>>> IQ was already beyond that of a college graduate - no, I should 
apply
>>> for a laborer job.  OMG.  I would have been fired very quickly 
from such a
>>> job as I would have been there daydreaming and imagining and I 
would
>>> have either had a bad accident, or caused the entire place to be 
in shut
>>> down mode from something stupid I would have done.

>>> I could not do any kind of repetitive activity for even a day - 
probably
>>> not even for an hour, really.? I really had a good laugh at the 
thought
>>> of you doing the erasers, but then, that isn't really funny when 
you
>>> follow it to it's end, is it?


>>> When my students would sit down with me and we would discuss 
their
>>> schedule and their plans for a major, I told them to never 
settle for
>>> anything other than what they have a passion for - because if 
they do,
>>> in mid-life they will be longing for the thing they wanted in 
the first
>>> place - and so many people at mid-life are so unhappy with the 
life they
>>> created for themselves.

>>> Even if they are financially successful, the failure to pursue 
their
>>> dream is still with them.  I have seen this many times.


>>> Lynda



>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Donna Hill"<penatwork at epix.net
>>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 12:29 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in 
blindness
>>> field


>>>> Good advice.
>>>> Donna

>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Lynda
>>>> Lambert
>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 12:24 PM
>>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in 
blindness
>>> field
>>>> I recommend the book, "Cockeyed" - which is available through 
library
>>>> of congress for the reading machines we have - a teenager who 
was
>>>> going blind, and became a professor of English - it is super 
funny -
>>>> and yet so enlightening as to the high goals a person can 
achieve by
>>>> never settling for
>>>> Plan B.
>>>> My advice, is, those who plan for Plan B, end up being there 
instead
>>> of at
>>>> Plan A where they really wanted to be.
>>>> I do not believe in settling for anything less than the absolute
>>> desire of
>>>> your heart - Plan A is the only acceptable plan in my own life.  
I am
>>> an
>>>> advid believer in being completely outside the comfort level for 
as
>>> long
>>>> as
>>>> it takes to achieve your goals.  And, once you are "there" you 
continue
>>> to
>>>> work your butt off without any excuses.
>>>> Excellence is the only path worth following.

>>>> Lynda





>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "justin williams"<justin.williams2 at gmail.com
>>>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 10:52 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in 
blindness
>>>> field


>>>>> New Braska is all kinds of awesome.? Some states are better than
>>>>> others.  Any field is open, but you may have to move to find 
it.? Aiwa
>>>>> is another good state.? Leaving out the venders and customer 
service
>>>>> reps, no disrespect to any of the people in those fields, human
>>>>> service or computer programming fields followed by professors? 
and
>>>>> lawyers seem to be where totals or braille users work.? This is 
by no
>>>>> means cut and dry, and I am not
>>>>> including lo vision applicants, because the better your sight, 
the
>>> more
>>>>> likely you will be to have a job which is outside of that block 
of
>>> fiends
>>>>> that I just mentioned.? I've met braille users in just about 
every
>>> type
>>>>> of
>>>>> career field, but keep in mind that a person who is blind does
>>> develop
>>>>> and
>>>>> emphasize a slightly different skill set which naturally fits 
them
>>> better
>>>>> to
>>>>> certain fields.? Going outside of those fields generally 
speaking,
>>> will
>>>>> force the person to have to constantly perform at a higher level 
of
>>> skill
>>>>> just to have a chance of success.? Of course, that is possible.? 
But
>>>>> remember, I am making a basic statement.? Feel free to enlighten 
me
>>>>> further.? Remember, I am saying this with the caveat? that 
anything
>>> is
>>>>> possible, and I have met Blind teachers, mechanics, business 
owners
>>> who
>>>>> are
>>>>> not venders, cabinent makers, among others.? Not all of the 
teachers
>>> were
>>>>> teachers of the bisually impaired.? Some taught in standard 
classroom
>>>>> formats.? I have heard of blind electricians, met travel agents,
>>> there
>>>>> you
>>>>> go, travel agent is another field for the blind, and even read 
the
>>>>> article
>>>>> on the blind doctor.  I think he is somewhere in canada.
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Robert
>>>>> Leslie
>>>>> Newman
>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 9:14 AM
>>>>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>>>>> Subject: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness 
field

>>>>> Guys
>>>>> Back when I started working for the commission for the Blind 
here in
>>>>> Nebraska, back in the seventies, our federation had the mindset 
(this
>>>>> is a
>>>>> generalization) that if you as a blind person had one of those 
jobs,
>>>>> then you were suspect, as in you had gone over to the other 
side,
>>>>> that of the enemy! (This was the state of relations between the
>>>>> progressive blind and the rehab services.) Boy, back then, in a 
NFB
>>>>> chapter around here, you mostly weren't encouraged to try and 
become
>>>>> an officer, because it was feared that you would be a spy for 
the
>>>>> rehab side, and would be pushing their (the bad guys) agenda.  
But ---
>>>>> this all changed.  Here in Nebraska and in New Mexico and maybe 
in
>>>>> some other states, the NFB got the bad agency head folks fired 
and
>>>>> had a hand in who and what changes had to occur --- and
>>>>> so the NFB philosophy got the upper hand.  And then, it became
>>> respectful
>>>>> for
>>>>> NFB members to be part of the rehab scene.  (Here in the Omaha 
chapter
>>> we
>>>>> still have one older member, like in the 80's who doesn't like 
seeing
>>> a
>>>>> rehab professional being in a leadership position.)

>>>>> Think of it, one of the larger and more active NFB Division's is 
the
>>>>> Rehabilitation Professionals.

>>>>> #2 Taking a serious look at job opportunities for the blind in 
blind
>>>>> related professions --- count up the number of rehab agencies 
and/or
>>>>> other services
>>>>> around the country and add up how many blind folks are working 
within
>>>>> them
>>>>> and I bet that number is not as great as you think!!! Consider, 
that
>>> in
>>>>> general, the not so good agencies who have low expectations are 
the
>>> ones
>>>>> that will more than likely hire only a few token blind workers.  
And
>>> the
>>>>> better rehab services, which are the minority in this nationwide
>>> group
>>>>> that
>>>>> we are looking at --- sure, they may have more blind guys on 
staff.
>>>>> (Nebraska at present has 1 blind related rehab service only.  
They
>>> have a
>>>>> total staff at the commission that numbers around 55 and 17 are
>>> blind.
>>>>> All
>>>>> other employed blind people work in a variety of other jobs; 
Nebraska
>>> is
>>>>> one
>>>>> of the better states for employment of the blind and there are a
>>> bunch of
>>>>> folks that are doing all kinds of jobs.) So watch that thought 
of
>>> yours,
>>>>> that there are a big number of blind folks working in blind 
related
>>>>> jobs ---
>>>>> for either reason of- A.  That is where they are accepted.  Or 
B.  That
>>> it
>>>>> is
>>>>> the job that the blind think of first as to what they can do.

>>>>> (Just my rambling for this morning.)

>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Julie
>>>>> J.
>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 7:08 AM
>>>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Working in blindness field

>>>>> Bridget,

>>>>> Could it be that more of the state board members and generally 
more
>>>>> really
>>>>> active members of the NFB are working in the blindness field 
because
>>>>> blindness is their passion?It makes sense to me that if 
promoting
>>>>> opportunities for blind people was your life's mission that 
you'd
>>> work in
>>>>> that field and be more active within an organization that 
supported
>>> you.
>>>>> I
>>>>> do think all blind people have an interest in achieving true 
equality
>>> for
>>>>> blind people.  However I think for some it is their major life's 
work,
>>>>> while
>>>>> for others of us it is something we do when we can around our 
other
>>> main
>>>>> pursuits.  So it makes sense to me that there would be a large 
number
>>> of
>>>>> people within the NFB that do or want to work in the blindness 
field.

>>>>> I've been blind for around 20 years now.? While I do know quite 
a few
>>>>> blind people who work in the blindness field, I'd say I know a 
larger
>>>>> number who
>>>>> don't.? Perhaps that's because I have never been very involved 
in
>>>>> leadership
>>>>> within the NFB.? It does seem that those in leadership positions 
do
>>> work
>>>>> in
>>>>> the blindness field much more frequently.? Again that makes 
sense to
>>> me
>>>>> due
>>>>> to their strong interest and commitment to the cause.

>>>>> Julie



>>>>> On 2/17/2013 11:13 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote:
>>>>>> Ashley,

>>>>>> Without actual stats, we can't really debate this, but that 
being
>>>>>> said, I beg to differ, at least to a degree.

>>>>>> I don't think anyone here is trying to make generalizations 
seeing
>>>>>> as we all are blind, but we are all speaking from our 
experiences
>>>>>> and personal observations.

>>>>>> In the ten years I've been blind, which isn't long compared to 
some,
>>>>>> I've met more blind people working in a blindness-related field 
or
>>>>>> hoping to be employed in a blindness related field.  For every
>>>>>> lawyer, teacher and computer programmer I've met, I've met ten 
who
>>>>>> worked in a job relating to blindness.

>>>>>> There's nothing wrong with this, and most of us would agree that
>>>>>> blind people need to be working in these fields, but I also 
think it
>>>>>> can become a safety net for some; not all, but many.

>>>>>> I've been to NFB conventions, and yes, there are people employed 
in
>>>>>> various fields, and many scholarship winners plan to, or are,
>>>>>> pursuing a myriad of career paths, but again, for every one of 
these
>>>>>> people I've met, I've met a dozen working in the blindness 
field.  Or
>>>>>> many of these people end up in a blindness field despite their
>>>>>> choice of degree.

>>>>>> And having heard several scholarship winners speak at 
conventions, a
>>>>>> good number of them hope to work in some way in a blindness 
field or
>>>>>> teaching the blind.  Again, nothing wrong with this, and we do 
need
>>>>>> blind people doing this, but, for me, it shows how many blind 
people
>>>>>> go into a blindness related field.

>>>>>> And in our affiliate, most of the leadership either works in the
>>>>>> blindness field or hopes too.  Of our eleven state board 
members,
>>>>>> only two are employed outside of a blindness field, and one is
>>>>>> working towards a degree so they can work in a blindness job.

>>>>>> More and more blind people are seeking opportunities outside of 
a
>>>>>> blindness related career, but many are still drawn to the field 
for
>>>>>> whatever reason.  Again, we need strong, competent blind people 
in
>>>>>> this field, but we also need to consider what we truly want as a
>>>>>> person and not a blind person.

>>>>>> And a side note, I don't think Lynda meant anything negative by 
her
>>>>>> comments nor was she implying all blind people work in a 
blindness
>>>>>> related field.  She was merely detailing her experience and 
speaking
>>>>>> to that experience alone.

>>>>>> Bridgit

>>>>>> Message: 11
>>>>>> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 22:28:29 -0500
>>>>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett"<bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>>>>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Sending this again: Article
>>>>>> showingwhatparentsofblindkids are facing
>>>>>> Message-ID:<D073072BEB3F4E1F938EB6B7A6FF190A at OwnerPC
>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>>>>> reply-type=response

>>>>>> Lynda,
>>>>>> I beg to differ.  Have you been to a nfb convention?
>>>>>> There are people employed in all walks of life and most 
scholarship
>>>>>> winners have a career aspiration in a non blindness field; they
>>>>>> include future teachers, therapists, researchers,? counselors, 
and
>>>>>> doctors.  Most blind people I know work either in the IT field 
as
>>>>>> computer programmers or in the government, far from the 
blindness
>>>>>> fields! Read the braille monitor and you will see the wide 
variety
>>>>>> of fields too!


>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info
>>>>>> for
>>>>> stylist:
>>>>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/julielj%40ne
b.r
>>>>>> r.
>>>>>> com


>>>>>> -----
>>>>>> No virus found in this message.
>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>>> Version: 2012.0.2238 / Virus Database: 2639/5610 - Release Date:
>>>>>> 02/17/13



>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>>>> stylist:
>>>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/newmanrl%40c
ox.n
>>>>> et


>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>>>> stylist:

>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/justin.willi
ams2%40
>>> gmai
>>>>> l.com


>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>>>> stylist:

>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40z
oominte
>>> rnet
>>>> .net


>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>>> stylist:
>>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/penatwork%40
epix.
>>>> net


>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>>> stylist:

>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40z
oominte
>>> rnet
>>> .net


>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Writers Division web site
>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>> stylist mailing list
>>> stylist at nfbnet.org 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>> stylist:
>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/penatwork%40
epix.ne
>>> t


>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Writers Division web site
>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>> stylist mailing list
>>> stylist at nfbnet.org 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>> stylist:
>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/justin.willi
ams2%40
>>> gmai
>>> l.com




>>> ------------------------------

>>> Message: 3
>>> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 13:36:56 -0500
>>> From: "justin williams"<justin.williams2 at gmail.com
>>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in 
blindness ???
>>> field
>>> Message-ID:<017d01ce0d3d$c3e405b0$4bac1110$@gmail.com
>>> Content-Type: text/plain;??? charset="us-ascii"

>>> You are cheating to your ability set.? You are cheating to your 
skill
>>> set.  If it lies elsewhere, such as being an environmental 
engineer, then
>>> by all means pursue that dream.? There is no reason you can't 
accomplish
>>> it.? But you may have to go to, California new braska, Colorado, 
or Iowa
>>> for easier access.? Of course, you could be a pioneer.? Who 
knows.?
>>> Maybe you can make something happen in a less aware state; it 
will just
>>> be harder.?

>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Donna
>>> Hill
>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 1:11 PM
>>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in 
blindness
>>> field

>>> Lynda,
>>> You bring up one of those similarities I'm always talking about 
between
>>> the blindness movement and other civil rights movements.  Years 
ago, the
>>> normal perception of women did not include much in the way of?
>>> career-readiness.  Sure, women had to work in factories in WWII 
to
>>> support the war effort, but as for careers, you could teach or 
be a
>>> nurse; that was about it.  The underlying message was that when 
it came
>>> to what was best for women, men knew best .  Fortunately, we 
have come a
>>> long way, baby!

>>> The whole erasers on pencils thing has dredged up another 
memory.  When I
>>> was in junior high, they made me take a test of my manual 
dexterity,
>>> which I didn't think at the time was something that other kids 
got. .  It
>>> involved putting pegs into holes on a board -- literally the 
square peg
>>> in the round hole kind of thing.  I was overpowered by the 
impression
>>> that, if I did well on this test, they would push me into manual 
labor
>>> of some sort.  I didn't know what I could do, but I knew I 
wasn't having
>>> fantasies about putting pegs in holes, so I "threw" the test --
>>> figuratively speaking.

>>> I had a hard time with setting goals, because on some level I 
believed
>>> that I couldn't do anything.  I had secret dreams of what I'd 
like to do,
>>> but there was a real disconnect between that and having a plan.  
The
>>> thing that kept me going was the knowledge that, whatever anyone 
else
>>> said or how true it was, I didn't want those things to be true.  
That's
>>> really all I had.  Goals came later.  My somewhat cynical 
version of the
>>> Plan A thing is that if you strive for Plan A, you might not 
make it,
>>> but you might make plan B.  If you don't strive for plan A, 
you're not
>>> even going to make plan B.  Donna

>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Lynda
>>> Lambert
>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 12:47 PM
>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in 
blindness
>>> field

>>> Donna,
>>> You might have been putting erasers in pencils - OMG!
>>> Can you envision yourself in such a place? Never!
>>> You are living proof of seeking out a goal that is a passion and 
going
>>> for it.

>>> When I graduated from high school, in the dark ages of course, I 
as told
>>> by the counselor that I had really good hand and eye 
coordination, so I
>>> should work our very well in a factory assembly line.  Never 
mind that my
>>> IQ was already beyond that of a college graduate - no, I should 
apply
>>> for a laborer job.  OMG.  I would have been fired very quickly 
from such a
>>> job as I would have been there daydreaming and imagining and I 
would
>>> have either had a bad accident, or caused the entire place to be 
in shut
>>> down mode from something stupid I would have done.

>>> I could not do any kind of repetitive activity for even a day - 
probably
>>> not even for an hour, really.? I really had a good laugh at the 
thought
>>> of you doing the erasers, but then, that isn't really funny when 
you
>>> follow it to it's end, is it?


>>> When my students would sit down with me and we would discuss 
their
>>> schedule and their plans for a major, I told them to never 
settle for
>>> anything other than what they have a passion for - because if 
they do,
>>> in mid-life they will be longing for the thing they wanted in 
the first
>>> place - and so many people at mid-life are so unhappy with the 
life they
>>> created for themselves.

>>> Even if they are financially successful, the failure to pursue 
their
>>> dream is still with them.  I have seen this many times.


>>> Lynda



>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Donna Hill"<penatwork at epix.net
>>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 12:29 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in 
blindness
>>> field


>>>> Good advice.
>>>> Donna

>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Lynda
>>>> Lambert
>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 12:24 PM
>>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in 
blindness
>>>> field

>>>> I recommend the book, "Cockeyed" - which is available through 
library
>>>> of congress for the reading machines we have - a teenager who 
was
>>>> going blind, and became a professor of English - it is super 
funny -
>>>> and yet so enlightening as to the high goals a person can 
achieve by
>>>> never settling for Plan B.
>>>> My advice, is, those who plan for Plan B, end up being there 
instead
>>>> of at Plan A where they really wanted to be.
>>>> I do not believe in settling for anything less than the absolute
>>>> desire of your heart - Plan A is the only acceptable plan in my 
own
>>>> life.  I am an advid believer in being completely outside the 
comfort
>>>> level for as long as it takes to achieve your goals.  And, once 
you are
>>>> "there" you continue to work your butt off without any excuses.
>>>> Excellence is the only path worth following.

>>>> Lynda





>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "justin williams"<justin.williams2 at gmail.com
>>>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 10:52 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in 
blindness
>>>> field


>>>>> New Braska is all kinds of awesome.? Some states are better than
>>>>> others.  Any field is open, but you may have to move to find 
it.? Aiwa
>>>>> is another good state.? Leaving out the venders and customer 
service
>>>>> reps, no disrespect to any of the people in those fields, human
>>>>> service or computer programming fields followed by professors? 
and
>>>>> lawyers seem to be where totals or braille users work.? This is 
by no
>>>>> means cut and dry, and I am not including lo vision applicants,
>>>>> because the better your sight, the more likely you will be to 
have a
>>>>> job which is outside of that block of fiends that I just 
mentioned.?
>>>>> I've met braille users in just about every type of career field, 
but
>>>>> keep in mind that a person who is blind does develop and 
emphasize a
>>>>> slightly different skill set which naturally fits them better to
>>>>> certain fields.? Going outside of those fields generally 
speaking,
>>>>> will force the person to have to constantly perform at a higher 
level
>>>>> of skill just to have a chance of success.? Of course, that is
>>>>> possible.? But remember, I am making a basic statement.? Feel 
free to
>>>>> enlighten me further.? Remember, I am saying this with the 
caveat?
>>>>> that anything is possible, and I have met Blind teachers, 
mechanics,
>>>>> business owners who are not venders, cabinent makers, among 
others.?
>>>>> Not all of the teachers were teachers of the bisually impaired.? 
Some
>>>>> taught in standard classroom formats.? I have heard of blind
>>>>> electricians, met travel agents, there you go, travel agent is
>>>>> another field for the blind, and even read the article on the 
blind
>>>>> doctor.  I think he is somewhere in canada.  -----Original 
Message-----
>>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Robert
>>>>> Leslie Newman
>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 9:14 AM
>>>>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>>>>> Subject: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness 
field

>>>>> Guys
>>>>> Back when I started working for the commission for the Blind 
here in
>>>>> Nebraska, back in the seventies, our federation had the mindset 
(this
>>>>> is a
>>>>> generalization) that if you as a blind person had one of those 
jobs,
>>>>> then you were suspect, as in you had gone over to the other 
side,
>>>>> that of the enemy! (This was the state of relations between the
>>>>> progressive blind and the rehab services.) Boy, back then, in a 
NFB
>>>>> chapter around here, you mostly weren't encouraged to try and 
become
>>>>> an officer, because it was feared that you would be a spy for 
the
>>>>> rehab side, and would be pushing their (the bad guys) agenda.  
But ---
>>>>> this all changed.  Here in Nebraska and in New Mexico and maybe 
in
>>>>> some other states, the NFB got the bad agency head folks fired 
and
>>>>> had a hand in who and what changes had to occur --- and so the 
NFB
>>>>> philosophy got the upper hand.  And then, it became respectful 
for NFB
>>>>> members to be part of the rehab scene.  (Here in the Omaha 
chapter we
>>>>> still have one older member, like in the 80's who doesn't like 
seeing
>>>>> a rehab professional being in a leadership position.)

>>>>> Think of it, one of the larger and more active NFB Division's is 
the
>>>>> Rehabilitation Professionals.

>>>>> #2 Taking a serious look at job opportunities for the blind in 
blind
>>>>> related professions --- count up the number of rehab agencies 
and/or
>>>>> other services around the country and add up how many blind 
folks are
>>>>> working within them and I bet that number is not as great as you
>>>>> think!!! Consider, that in general, the not so good agencies who 
have
>>>>> low expectations are the ones that will more than likely hire 
only a
>>>>> few token blind workers.  And the better rehab services, which 
are the
>>>>> minority in this nationwide group that we are looking at --- 
sure,
>>>>> they may have more blind guys on staff.
>>>>> (Nebraska at present has 1 blind related rehab service only.  
They
>>>>> have a total staff at the commission that numbers around 55 and 
17
>>> are
>>> blind.
>>>>> All
>>>>> other employed blind people work in a variety of other jobs; 
Nebraska
>>>>> is one of the better states for employment of the blind and 
there are
>>>>> a bunch of folks that are doing all kinds of jobs.) So watch 
that
>>>>> thought of yours, that there are a big number of blind folks 
working
>>>>> in blind related jobs --- for either reason of- A.  That is 
where they
>>>>> are accepted.  Or B.  That it is the job that the blind think of 
first
>>>>> as to what they can do.

>>>>> (Just my rambling for this morning.)

>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Julie
>>>>> J.
>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 7:08 AM
>>>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Working in blindness field

>>>>> Bridget,

>>>>> Could it be that more of the state board members and generally 
more
>>>>> really active members of the NFB are working in the blindness 
field
>>>>> because blindness is their passion?It makes sense to me that if
>>>>> promoting opportunities for blind people was your life's mission 
that
>>>>> you'd work in that field and be more active within an 
organization
>>>>> that supported you.
>>>>> I
>>>>> do think all blind people have an interest in achieving true 
equality
>>>>> for blind people.  However I think for some it is their major 
life's
>>>>> work, while for others of us it is something we do when we can 
around
>>>>> our other main pursuits.  So it makes sense to me that there 
would be
>>>>> a large number of people within the NFB that do or want to work 
in
>>>>> the blindness field.

>>>>> I've been blind for around 20 years now.? While I do know quite 
a few
>>>>> blind people who work in the blindness field, I'd say I know a 
larger
>>>>> number who don't.? Perhaps that's because I have never been very
>>>>> involved in leadership within the NFB.? It does seem that those 
in
>>>>> leadership positions do work in the blindness field much more
>>>>> frequently.? Again that makes sense to me due to their strong
>>>>> interest and commitment to the cause.

>>>>> Julie



>>>>> On 2/17/2013 11:13 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote:
>>>>>> Ashley,

>>>>>> Without actual stats, we can't really debate this, but that 
being
>>>>>> said, I beg to differ, at least to a degree.

>>>>>> I don't think anyone here is trying to make generalizations 
seeing
>>>>>> as we all are blind, but we are all speaking from our 
experiences
>>>>>> and personal observations.

>>>>>> In the ten years I've been blind, which isn't long compared to 
some,
>>>>>> I've met more blind people working in a blindness-related field 
or
>>>>>> hoping to be employed in a blindness related field.  For every
>>>>>> lawyer, teacher and computer programmer I've met, I've met ten 
who
>>>>>> worked in a job relating to blindness.

>>>>>> There's nothing wrong with this, and most of us would agree that
>>>>>> blind people need to be working in these fields, but I also 
think it
>>>>>> can become a safety net for some; not all, but many.

>>>>>> I've been to NFB conventions, and yes, there are people employed 
in
>>>>>> various fields, and many scholarship winners plan to, or are,
>>>>>> pursuing a myriad of career paths, but again, for every one of 
these
>>>>>> people I've met, I've met a dozen working in the blindness 
field.  Or
>>>>>> many of these people end up in a blindness field despite their
>>> choice of
>>> degree.
>>>>>> And having heard several scholarship winners speak at 
conventions, a
>>>>>> good number of them hope to work in some way in a blindness 
field or
>>>>>> teaching the blind.  Again, nothing wrong with this, and we do 
need
>>>>>> blind people doing this, but, for me, it shows how many blind 
people
>>>>>> go into a blindness related field.

>>>>>> And in our affiliate, most of the leadership either works in the
>>>>>> blindness field or hopes too.  Of our eleven state board 
members,
>>>>>> only two are employed outside of a blindness field, and one is
>>>>>> working towards a degree so they can work in a blindness job.

>>>>>> More and more blind people are seeking opportunities outside of 
a
>>>>>> blindness related career, but many are still drawn to the field 
for
>>>>>> whatever reason.  Again, we need strong, competent blind people 
in
>>>>>> this field, but we also need to consider what we truly want as a
>>>>>> person and not a blind person.

>>>>>> And a side note, I don't think Lynda meant anything negative by 
her
>>>>>> comments nor was she implying all blind people work in a 
blindness
>>>>>> related field.  She was merely detailing her experience and 
speaking
>>>>>> to that experience alone.

>>>>>> Bridgit

>>>>>> Message: 11
>>>>>> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 22:28:29 -0500
>>>>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett"<bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>>>>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Sending this again: Article
>>>>>> showingwhatparentsofblindkids are facing
>>>>>> Message-ID:<D073072BEB3F4E1F938EB6B7A6FF190A at OwnerPC
>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>>>>> reply-type=response

>>>>>> Lynda,
>>>>>> I beg to differ.  Have you been to a nfb convention?
>>>>>> There are people employed in all walks of life and most 
scholarship
>>>>>> winners have a career aspiration in a non blindness field; they
>>>>>> include future teachers, therapists, researchers,? counselors, 
and
>>>>>> doctors.
>>>>>> Most blind people I know work either in the IT field as computer
>>>>>> programmers or in the government, far from the blindness fields!
>>>>>> Read the braille monitor and you will see the wide variety of 
fields
>>> too!

>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info
>>>>>> for
>>>>> stylist:
>>>>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/julielj%40ne
b.r
>>>>>> r.
>>>>>> com


>>>>>> -----
>>>>>> No virus found in this message.
>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>>> Version: 2012.0.2238 / Virus Database: 2639/5610 - Release Date:
>>>>>> 02/17/13



>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>>>> stylist:
>>>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/newmanrl%40c
ox.n
>>>>> et


>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>>>> stylist:

>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/justin.willi
ams2%40
>>> gmai
>>>>> l.com


>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>>>> stylist:

>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40z
oominte
>>> rnet
>>>> .net


>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>>> stylist:
>>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/penatwork%40
epix.
>>>> net


>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>>> stylist:

>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40z
oominte
>>> rnet
>>> .net


>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Writers Division web site
>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>> stylist mailing list
>>> stylist at nfbnet.org 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>> stylist:
>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/penatwork%40
epix.ne
>>> t


>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Writers Division web site
>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>> stylist mailing list
>>> stylist at nfbnet.org 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>> stylist:
>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/justin.willi
ams2%40
>>> gmai
>>> l.com




>>> ------------------------------

>>> Message: 4
>>> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 14:01:40 -0500
>>> From: "Lynda Lambert"<llambert at zoominternet.net
>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in 
blindness ???
>>> field
>>> Message-ID:<CAF89F7E28924CCAAECCA40191D4BF6E at Lambert
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; 
???
>>> reply-type=original

>>> Wonderful! My son has his MS in Education Counseling - and works 
at a
>>> high
>>> school in MD.? -? very good field.


>>> Lynda





>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "justin williams"<justin.williams2 at gmail.com
>>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 12:51 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in 
blindness
>>> field


>>>> Thank you.? I appreciate that.? Yes, I am in school right now.?
>>>> Masters of rehabilitation counseling with a wish to obtain my 
phd
>>>> afterwards in counseling education.

>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Lynda
>>>> Lambert
>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 12:49 PM
>>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in 
blindness
>>> field
>>>> Excellent if far more desirable than "good."
>>>> Good ends up being Plan B or Plan C.
>>>> Go for EXCELLENT! You are a very sharp young man - go for 
EXCELLENCE.

>>>> Lynda




>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "justin williams"<justin.williams2 at gmail.com
>>>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 12:30 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in 
blindness
>>> field

>>>>> Yeah, I am inclined to agree.? Plan a is usually the best path 
in the
>>>>> long
>>>>> run.? Of course, that changes as you gog through your different
>>> stages of
>>>>> life.? I would always encourage someone to take your skill set,
>>> develop
>>>>> it,
>>>>> then put yourself in the best possible chance to succeed.? I 
firmly
>>>>> believe
>>>>> in what Jim Brown said.? "You just got to be good."

>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Lynda
>>>>> Lambert
>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 12:24 PM
>>>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in 
blindness
>>>>> field

>>>>> I recommend the book, "Cockeyed" - which is available through 
library
>>>>> of congress for the reading machines we have - a teenager who 
was
>>>>> going blind, and became a professor of English - it is super 
funny -
>>>>> and yet so enlightening as to the high goals a person can 
achieve by
>>>>> never settling for
>>>>> Plan B.
>>>>> My advice, is, those who plan for Plan B, end up being there 
instead
>>> of
>>>>> at
>>>>> Plan A where they really wanted to be.
>>>>> I do not believe in settling for anything less than the absolute
>>> desire
>>>>> of
>>>>> your heart - Plan A is the only acceptable plan in my own life.  
I am
>>> an
>>>>> advid believer in being completely outside the comfort level for 
as
>>> long
>>>>> as
>>>>> it takes to achieve your goals.  And, once you are "there" you
>>> continue to
>>>>> work your butt off without any excuses.
>>>>> Excellence is the only path worth following.

>>>>> Lynda





>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "justin williams"<justin.williams2 at gmail.com
>>>>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 10:52 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in 
blindness
>>>>> field


>>>>>> New Braska is all kinds of awesome.? Some states are better than
>>>>>> others.  Any field is open, but you may have to move to find 
it.?
>>>>>> Aiwa is another good state.? Leaving out the venders and 
customer
>>>>>> service reps, no disrespect to any of the people in those 
fields,
>>>>>> human service or computer programming fields followed by 
professors?
>>>>>> and lawyers seem to be where totals or braille users work.? This 
is
>>>>>> by no means cut and dry, and I am not
>>>>>> including lo vision applicants, because the better your sight, 
the
>>> more
>>>>>> likely you will be to have a job which is outside of that block 
of
>>>>>> fiends
>>>>>> that I just mentioned.? I've met braille users in just about 
every
>>> type
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> career field, but keep in mind that a person who is blind does
>>> develop
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> emphasize a slightly different skill set which naturally fits 
them
>>>>>> better
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> certain fields.? Going outside of those fields generally 
speaking,
>>> will
>>>>>> force the person to have to constantly perform at a higher level 
of
>>>>>> skill
>>>>>> just to have a chance of success.? Of course, that is possible.? 
But
>>>>>> remember, I am making a basic statement.? Feel free to enlighten 
me
>>>>>> further.? Remember, I am saying this with the caveat? that 
anything
>>> is
>>>>>> possible, and I have met Blind teachers, mechanics, business 
owners
>>> who
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> not venders, cabinent makers, among others.? Not all of the 
teachers
>>>>>> were
>>>>>> teachers of the bisually impaired.? Some taught in standard
>>> classroom
>>>>>> formats.? I have heard of blind electricians, met travel agents,
>>> there
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> go, travel agent is another field for the blind, and even read 
the
>>>>>> article
>>>>>> on the blind doctor.  I think he is somewhere in canada.
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>> Robert
>>>>>> Leslie
>>>>>> Newman
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 9:14 AM
>>>>>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>>>>>> Subject: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness
>>> field
>>>>>> Guys
>>>>>> Back when I started working for the commission for the Blind 
here in
>>>>>> Nebraska, back in the seventies, our federation had the mindset
>>>>>> (this is a
>>>>>> generalization) that if you as a blind person had one of those 
jobs,
>>>>>> then
>>>>>> you were suspect, as in you had gone over to the other side, 
that of
>>> the
>>>>>> enemy! (This was the state of relations between the progressive
>>> blind
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> the rehab services.) Boy, back then, in a NFB chapter around 
here,
>>> you
>>>>>> mostly weren't encouraged to try and become an officer, because 
it
>>> was
>>>>>> feared that you would be a spy for the rehab side, and would be
>>> pushing
>>>>>> their (the bad guys) agenda.  But --- this all changed.  Here in
>>> Nebraska
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> in New Mexico and maybe in some other states, the NFB got the 
bad
>>> agency
>>>>>> head folks fired and had a hand in who and what changes had to 
occur
>>> ---
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> so the NFB philosophy got the upper hand.  And then, it became
>>> respectful
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> NFB members to be part of the rehab scene.  (Here in the Omaha
>>> chapter we
>>>>>> still have one older member, like in the 80's who doesn't like
>>> seeing a
>>>>>> rehab professional being in a leadership position.)

>>>>>> Think of it, one of the larger and more active NFB Division's is 
the
>>>>>> Rehabilitation Professionals.

>>>>>> #2 Taking a serious look at job opportunities for the blind in 
blind
>>>>>> related professions --- count up the number of rehab agencies 
and/or
>>>>>> other services
>>>>>> around the country and add up how many blind folks are working
>>> within
>>>>>> them
>>>>>> and I bet that number is not as great as you think!!! Consider, 
that
>>> in
>>>>>> general, the not so good agencies who have low expectations are 
the
>>> ones
>>>>>> that will more than likely hire only a few token blind workers.  
And
>>> the
>>>>>> better rehab services, which are the minority in this nationwide
>>> group
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> we are looking at --- sure, they may have more blind guys on 
staff.
>>>>>> (Nebraska at present has 1 blind related rehab service only.  
They
>>> have a
>>>>>> total staff at the commission that numbers around 55 and 17 are
>>> blind.
>>>>>> All
>>>>>> other employed blind people work in a variety of other jobs;
>>> Nebraska is
>>>>>> one
>>>>>> of the better states for employment of the blind and there are a
>>> bunch
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> folks that are doing all kinds of jobs.) So watch that thought 
of
>>> yours,
>>>>>> that there are a big number of blind folks working in blind 
related
>>>>>> jobs ---
>>>>>> for either reason of- A.  That is where they are accepted.  Or 
B.  That
>>> it
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> the job that the blind think of first as to what they can do.

>>>>>> (Just my rambling for this morning.)

>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Julie
>>>>>> J.
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 7:08 AM
>>>>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Working in blindness field

>>>>>> Bridget,

>>>>>> Could it be that more of the state board members and generally 
more
>>>>>> really active members of the NFB are working in the blindness 
field
>>>>>> because blindness is their passion?It makes sense to me that if
>>>>>> promoting opportunities for blind people was your life's mission
>>>>>> that you'd work in
>>>>>> that field and be more active within an organization that 
supported
>>> you.
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> do think all blind people have an interest in achieving true
>>> equality
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> blind people.  However I think for some it is their major life's
>>> work,
>>>>>> while
>>>>>> for others of us it is something we do when we can around our 
other
>>> main
>>>>>> pursuits.  So it makes sense to me that there would be a large 
number
>>> of
>>>>>> people within the NFB that do or want to work in the blindness
>>> field.
>>>>>> I've been blind for around 20 years now.? While I do know quite 
a
>>>>>> few blind people who work in the blindness field, I'd say I know 
a
>>>>>> larger number who
>>>>>> don't.? Perhaps that's because I have never been very involved 
in
>>>>>> leadership
>>>>>> within the NFB.? It does seem that those in leadership positions 
do
>>> work
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> the blindness field much more frequently.? Again that makes 
sense to
>>> me
>>>>>> due
>>>>>> to their strong interest and commitment to the cause.

>>>>>> Julie



>>>>>> On 2/17/2013 11:13 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote:
>>>>>>> Ashley,

>>>>>>> Without actual stats, we can't really debate this, but that 
being
>>>>>>> said, I beg to differ, at least to a degree.

>>>>>>> I don't think anyone here is trying to make generalizations 
seeing
>>>>>>> as we all are blind, but we are all speaking from our 
experiences
>>>>>>> and personal observations.

>>>>>>> In the ten years I've been blind, which isn't long compared to
>>>>>>> some, I've met more blind people working in a blindness-related
>>>>>>> field or hoping to be employed in a blindness related field.  
For
>>>>>>> every lawyer, teacher and computer programmer I've met, I've met
>>>>>>> ten who worked in a job relating to blindness.

>>>>>>> There's nothing wrong with this, and most of us would agree that
>>>>>>> blind people need to be working in these fields, but I also 
think
>>>>>>> it can become a safety net for some; not all, but many.

>>>>>>> I've been to NFB conventions, and yes, there are people employed 
in
>>>>>>> various fields, and many scholarship winners plan to, or are,
>>>>>>> pursuing a myriad of career paths, but again, for every one of
>>>>>>> these people I've met, I've met a dozen working in the blindness
>>>>>>> field.  Or many of these people end up in a blindness field 
despite
>>>>>>> their choice of degree.

>>>>>>> And having heard several scholarship winners speak at 
conventions,
>>>>>>> a good number of them hope to work in some way in a blindness 
field
>>>>>>> or teaching the blind.  Again, nothing wrong with this, and we 
do
>>>>>>> need blind people doing this, but, for me, it shows how many 
blind
>>>>>>> people go into a blindness related field.

>>>>>>> And in our affiliate, most of the leadership either works in the
>>>>>>> blindness field or hopes too.  Of our eleven state board 
members,
>>>>>>> only two are employed outside of a blindness field, and one is
>>>>>>> working towards a degree so they can work in a blindness job.

>>>>>>> More and more blind people are seeking opportunities outside of 
a
>>>>>>> blindness related career, but many are still drawn to the field 
for
>>>>>>> whatever reason.  Again, we need strong, competent blind people 
in
>>>>>>> this field, but we also need to consider what we truly want as a
>>>>>>> person and not a blind person.

>>>>>>> And a side note, I don't think Lynda meant anything negative by 
her
>>>>>>> comments nor was she implying all blind people work in a 
blindness
>>>>>>> related field.  She was merely detailing her experience and 
speaking
>>>>>>> to that experience alone.

>>>>>>> Bridgit

>>>>>>> Message: 11
>>>>>>> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 22:28:29 -0500
>>>>>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett"<bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>>>>>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Sending this again: Article
>>>>>>> showingwhatparentsofblindkids are facing
>>>>>>> Message-ID:<D073072BEB3F4E1F938EB6B7A6FF190A at OwnerPC
>>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>>>>>> reply-type=response

>>>>>>> Lynda,
>>>>>>> I beg to differ.  Have you been to a nfb convention?
>>>>>>> There are people employed in all walks of life and most 
scholarship
>>>>>>> winners have a career aspiration in a non blindness field; they
>>>>>>> include future teachers, therapists, researchers,? counselors, 
and
>>>>>>> doctors.  Most blind people I know work either in the IT field 
as
>>>>>>> computer programmers or in the government, far from the 
blindness
>>>>>>> fields! Read the braille monitor and you will see the wide 
variety
>>>>>>> of fields too!


>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>> stylist:
>>>>>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/julielj%40ne
b.
>>>>>>> rr.
>>>>>>> com


>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>> No virus found in this message.
>>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>>>> Version: 2012.0.2238 / Virus Database: 2639/5610 - Release Date:
>>>>>>> 02/17/13



>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> stylist:

>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/newmanrl%40c
ox.net

>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> stylist:

>>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/justin.willi
ams2%
>>>> 40gmai
>>>>>> l.com


>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> stylist:

>>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40z
oomin
>>>> ternet
>>>>> .net


>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>>>> stylist:

>>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/justin.willi
ams2%
>>>> 40gmai
>>>>> l.com


>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>>>> stylist:

>>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40z
oomin
>>>> ternet
>>>> .net


>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>>> stylist:
>>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/justin.willi
ams2%
>>>> 40gmai
>>>> l.com


>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>>> stylist:

>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40z
oominte
>>> rnet.net




>>> ------------------------------

>>> Message: 5
>>> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 14:27:03 -0500
>>> From: "Lynda Lambert"<llambert at zoominternet.net
>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in 
blindness ???
>>> field
>>> Message-ID:<EDE6E4B470404D849359C6124864132F at Lambert
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; 
???
>>> reply-type=original

>>> Donna,
>>> Wow, you perked up my memory, too.  yes, it was that same 
dexterity test
>>> that
>>> I took, with pegs and holes.  But, being the obsessive 
compulsive and
>>> over
>>> achiever that I am, well, I aced it! Therefore, I was "pegged" 
to be put

>>> into the proper hole for my future good.? lol? It was the law 
that they
>>> had
>>> to give those tests to students, and they had to have a meeting 
with
>>> every
>>> student at least one time? during the 4 years of high school.  
My meeting

>>> took place after the test was given, just before I graduated - 
so it
>>> would
>>> be "legal."

>>> The other criteria that I see on looking back on all this stuff 
is that
>>> only
>>> the kids from professional backgrounds at home (their parents), 
were
>>> marked
>>> for going on to college.  The rest, were pegged for manual labor 
in a
>>> factory, despite intelligence testing.? Children who came from 
the blue
>>> collar families were seldom, and I do mean very seldom, ever 
encouraged
>>> to
>>> even think of anything else.? Marginalization really begins in 
the
>>> earliest
>>> years of life - and it still does - and that has far more to do 
with
>>> economic issues than it does a disability issue.

>>> My daughter is the librarian of a very FANCY and elite new 
school..? Of
>>> the
>>> 600 students who are there, all but 40 of those students come 
from
>>> fairly
>>> wealthy families and are "entitled" - she asked me recently, "Do 
you
>>> think
>>> those 40 children do not stand out like a sore thumb? "? When 
they have
>>> a
>>> book fair, many of those children have a "budget" of about $50.  
to spend
>>> on
>>> books that day.? The other 40 children come up to her with some 
small
>>> change
>>> in their hand and ask if there is anything they can buy with 
it!? Not
>>> only
>>> are they children who are completely out of place in the 
economic
>>> picture,
>>> they are really denied basic rights to even own a book because 
they have
>>> no
>>> money to buy one.  (She is creating some clever ways to get 
books into
>>> their
>>> hands anyway, but it will be at her own expense.)

>>> I do believe that no matter how marginalized people with 
blindness feel,

>>> there are zillions of others who are also marginalized? as well 
by our
>>> education system, and uncaring entitled class.

>>> In the small rural town where I live, over 42 percent of the 
children in
>>> our
>>> school district are children from below the poverty line.? Their
>>> parents,
>>> for the most part, are the "working poor." They work 2 jobs 
each, and
>>> therefore the children are left to fend for themselves because 
Mom and
>>> Dad
>>> are working day and night just to survive.  I don't think we can 
be very
>>> optimistic about the future of that 42 percent here, do you?? 
Just makes
>>> me
>>> sick.
>>> Lynda




>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Donna Hill"<penatwork at epix.net
>>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 1:11 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in 
blindness
>>> field


>>>> Lynda,
>>>> You bring up one of those similarities I'm always talking about
>>>> between
>>>> the
>>>> blindness movement and other civil rights movements.  Years ago, 
the
>>> normal
>>>> perception of women did not include much in the way of?
>>> career-readiness.
>>>> Sure, women had to work in factories in WWII to support the war
>>> effort,
>>>> but
>>>> as for careers, you could teach or be a nurse; that was about 
it.  The
>>>> underlying message was that when it came to what was best for 
women,
>>> men
>>>> knew best .  Fortunately, we have come a long way, baby!

>>>> The whole erasers on pencils thing has dredged up another 
memory.  When
>>>> I
>>>> was
>>>> in junior high, they made me take a test of my manual dexterity, 
which
>>> I
>>>> didn't think at the time was something that other kids got. .  
It
>>> involved
>>>> putting pegs into holes on a board -- literally the square peg 
in the
>>>> round
>>>> hole kind of thing.  I was overpowered by the impression that, 
if I did
>>>> well
>>>> on this test, they would push me into manual labor of some sort.  
I
>>> didn't
>>>> know what I could do, but I knew I wasn't having fantasies about
>>> putting
>>>> pegs in holes, so I "threw" the test -- figuratively speaking.

>>>> I had a hard time with setting goals, because on some level I 
believed
>>>> that
>>>> I couldn't do anything.  I had secret dreams of what I'd like to 
do,
>>> but
>>>> there was a real disconnect between that and having a plan.  The 
thing
>>> that
>>>> kept me going was the knowledge that, whatever anyone else said 
or how
>>>> true
>>>> it was, I didn't want those things to be true.  That's really 
all I
>>> had.
>>>> Goals came later.  My somewhat cynical version of the Plan A 
thing is
>>> that
>>>> if
>>>> you strive for Plan A, you might not make it, but you might make 
plan
>>> B.
>>>> If
>>>> you don't strive for plan A, you're not even going to make plan 
B.
>>>> Donna

>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Lynda
>>>> Lambert
>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 12:47 PM
>>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in 
blindness
>>> field
>>>> Donna,
>>>> You might have been putting erasers in pencils - OMG!
>>>> Can you envision yourself in such a place? Never!
>>>> You are living proof of seeking out a goal that is a passion and 
going
>>>> for it.

>>>> When I graduated from high school, in the dark ages of course, I 
as
>>>> told
>>>> by
>>>> the counselor that I had really good hand and eye coordination, 
so I
>>>> should
>>>> work our very well in a factory assembly line.  Never mind that 
my IQ
>>> was
>>>> already beyond that of a college graduate - no, I should apply 
for a
>>>> laborer
>>>> job.  OMG.  I would have been fired very quickly from such a job 
as I
>>> would
>>>> have been there daydreaming and imagining and I would have 
either had
>>> a
>>>> bad
>>>> accident, or caused the entire place to be in shut down mode 
from
>>>> something
>>>> stupid I would have done.

>>>> I could not do any kind of repetitive activity for even a day -
>>>> probably
>>>> not
>>>> even for an hour, really.? I really had a good laugh at the 
thought of
>>> you
>>>> doing the erasers, but then, that isn't really funny when you 
follow
>>> it to
>>>> it's end, is it?


>>>> When my students would sit down with me and we would discuss 
their
>>>> schedule
>>>> and their plans for a major, I told them to never settle for 
anything
>>>> other
>>>> than what they have a passion for - because if they do, in 
mid-life
>>> they
>>>> will be longing for the thing they wanted in the first place - 
and so
>>> many
>>>> people at mid-life are so unhappy with the life they created for
>>>> themselves.

>>>> Even if they are financially successful, the failure to pursue 
their
>>>> dream is still with them.  I have seen this many times.


>>>> Lynda



>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Donna Hill"<penatwork at epix.net
>>>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 12:29 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in 
blindness
>>>> field


>>>>> Good advice.
>>>>> Donna

>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Lynda
>>>>> Lambert
>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 12:24 PM
>>>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in 
blindness
>>>>> field

>>>>> I recommend the book, "Cockeyed" - which is available through 
library
>>>>> of congress for the reading machines we have - a teenager who 
was
>>>>> going blind, and became a professor of English - it is super 
funny -
>>>>> and yet so enlightening as to the high goals a person can 
achieve by
>>>>> never settling for
>>>>> Plan B.
>>>>> My advice, is, those who plan for Plan B, end up being there 
instead
>>> of
>>>>> at
>>>>> Plan A where they really wanted to be.
>>>>> I do not believe in settling for anything less than the absolute
>>> desire
>>>>> of
>>>>> your heart - Plan A is the only acceptable plan in my own life.  
I am
>>> an
>>>>> advid believer in being completely outside the comfort level for 
as
>>> long
>>>>> as
>>>>> it takes to achieve your goals.  And, once you are "there" you
>>> continue to
>>>>> work your butt off without any excuses.
>>>>> Excellence is the only path worth following.

>>>>> Lynda





>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "justin williams"<justin.williams2 at gmail.com
>>>>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 10:52 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in 
blindness
>>>>> field


>>>>>> New Braska is all kinds of awesome.? Some states are better than
>>>>>> others.  Any field is open, but you may have to move to find 
it.?
>>>>>> Aiwa is another good state.? Leaving out the venders and 
customer
>>>>>> service reps, no disrespect to any of the people in those 
fields,
>>>>>> human service or computer programming fields followed by 
professors?
>>>>>> and lawyers seem to be where totals or braille users work.? This 
is
>>>>>> by no means cut and dry, and I am not
>>>>>> including lo vision applicants, because the better your sight, 
the
>>> more
>>>>>> likely you will be to have a job which is outside of that block 
of
>>>>>> fiends
>>>>>> that I just mentioned.? I've met braille users in just about 
every
>>> type
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> career field, but keep in mind that a person who is blind does
>>> develop
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> emphasize a slightly different skill set which naturally fits 
them
>>>>>> better
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> certain fields.? Going outside of those fields generally 
speaking,
>>> will
>>>>>> force the person to have to constantly perform at a higher level 
of
>>>>>> skill
>>>>>> just to have a chance of success.? Of course, that is possible.? 
But
>>>>>> remember, I am making a basic statement.? Feel free to enlighten 
me
>>>>>> further.? Remember, I am saying this with the caveat? that 
anything
>>> is
>>>>>> possible, and I have met Blind teachers, mechanics, business 
owners
>>> who
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> not venders, cabinent makers, among others.? Not all of the 
teachers
>>>>>> were
>>>>>> teachers of the bisually impaired.? Some taught in standard
>>> classroom
>>>>>> formats.? I have heard of blind electricians, met travel agents,
>>> there
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> go, travel agent is another field for the blind, and even read 
the
>>>>>> article
>>>>>> on the blind doctor.  I think he is somewhere in canada.
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>> Robert
>>>>>> Leslie
>>>>>> Newman
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 9:14 AM
>>>>>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>>>>>> Subject: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness
>>> field
>>>>>> Guys
>>>>>> Back when I started working for the commission for the Blind 
here in
>>>>>> Nebraska, back in the seventies, our federation had the mindset
>>>>>> (this is a
>>>>>> generalization) that if you as a blind person had one of those 
jobs,
>>>>>> then
>>>>>> you were suspect, as in you had gone over to the other side, 
that of
>>> the
>>>>>> enemy! (This was the state of relations between the progressive
>>> blind
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> the rehab services.) Boy, back then, in a NFB chapter around 
here,
>>> you
>>>>>> mostly weren't encouraged to try and become an officer, because 
it
>>> was
>>>>>> feared that you would be a spy for the rehab side, and would be
>>> pushing
>>>>>> their (the bad guys) agenda.  But --- this all changed.  Here in
>>> Nebraska
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> in New Mexico and maybe in some other states, the NFB got the 
bad
>>> agency
>>>>>> head folks fired and had a hand in who and what changes had to 
occur
>>> ---
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> so the NFB philosophy got the upper hand.  And then, it became
>>> respectful
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> NFB members to be part of the rehab scene.  (Here in the Omaha
>>> chapter we
>>>>>> still have one older member, like in the 80's who doesn't like
>>> seeing a
>>>>>> rehab professional being in a leadership position.)

>>>>>> Think of it, one of the larger and more active NFB Division's is 
the
>>>>>> Rehabilitation Professionals.

>>>>>> #2 Taking a serious look at job opportunities for the blind in 
blind
>>>>>> related professions --- count up the number of rehab agencies 
and/or
>>>>>> other services
>>>>>> around the country and add up how many blind folks are working
>>> within
>>>>>> them
>>>>>> and I bet that number is not as great as you think!!! Consider, 
that
>>> in
>>>>>> general, the not so good agencies who have low expectations are 
the
>>> ones
>>>>>> that will more than likely hire only a few token blind workers.  
And
>>> the
>>>>>> better rehab services, which are the minority in this nationwide
>>> group
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> we are looking at --- sure, they may have more blind guys on 
staff.
>>>>>> (Nebraska at present has 1 blind related rehab service only.  
They
>>> have a
>>>>>> total staff at the commission that numbers around 55 and 17 are
>>> blind.
>>>>>> All
>>>>>> other employed blind people work in a variety of other jobs;
>>> Nebraska is
>>>>>> one
>>>>>> of the better states for employment of the blind and there are a
>>> bunch
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> folks that are doing all kinds of jobs.) So watch that thought 
of
>>> yours,
>>>>>> that there are a big number of blind folks working in blind 
related
>>>>>> jobs ---
>>>>>> for either reason of- A.  That is where they are accepted.  Or 
B.  That
>>> it
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> the job that the blind think of first as to what they can do.

>>>>>> (Just my rambling for this morning.)

>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Julie
>>>>>> J.
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 7:08 AM
>>>>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Working in blindness field

>>>>>> Bridget,

>>>>>> Could it be that more of the state board members and generally 
more
>>>>>> really active members of the NFB are working in the blindness 
field
>>>>>> because blindness is their passion?It makes sense to me that if
>>>>>> promoting opportunities for blind people was your life's mission
>>>>>> that you'd work in
>>>>>> that field and be more active within an organization that 
supported
>>> you.
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> do think all blind people have an interest in achieving true
>>> equality
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> blind people.  However I think for some it is their major life's
>>> work,
>>>>>> while
>>>>>> for others of us it is something we do when we can around our 
other
>>> main
>>>>>> pursuits.  So it makes sense to me that there would be a large 
number
>>> of
>>>>>> people within the NFB that do or want to work in the blindness
>>> field.
>>>>>> I've been blind for around 20 years now.? While I do know quite 
a
>>>>>> few blind people who work in the blindness field, I'd say I know 
a
>>>>>> larger number who
>>>>>> don't.? Perhaps that's because I have never been very involved 
in
>>>>>> leadership
>>>>>> within the NFB.? It does seem that those in leadership positions 
do
>>> work
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> the blindness field much more frequently.? Again that makes 
sense to
>>> me
>>>>>> due
>>>>>> to their strong interest and commitment to the cause.

>>>>>> Julie



>>>>>> On 2/17/2013 11:13 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote:
>>>>>>> Ashley,

>>>>>>> Without actual stats, we can't really debate this, but that 
being
>>>>>>> said, I beg to differ, at least to a degree.

>>>>>>> I don't think anyone here is trying to make generalizations 
seeing
>>>>>>> as we all are blind, but we are all speaking from our 
experiences
>>>>>>> and personal observations.

>>>>>>> In the ten years I've been blind, which isn't long compared to
>>>>>>> some, I've met more blind people working in a blindness-related
>>>>>>> field or hoping to be employed in a blindness related field.  
For
>>>>>>> every lawyer, teacher and computer programmer I've met, I've met
>>>>>>> ten who worked in a job relating to blindness.

>>>>>>> There's nothing wrong with this, and most of us would agree that
>>>>>>> blind people need to be working in these fields, but I also 
think
>>>>>>> it can become a safety net for some; not all, but many.

>>>>>>> I've been to NFB conventions, and yes, there are people employed 
in
>>>>>>> various fields, and many scholarship winners plan to, or are,
>>>>>>> pursuing a myriad of career paths, but again, for every one of
>>>>>>> these people I've met, I've met a dozen working in the blindness
>>>>>>> field.  Or many of these people end up in a blindness field 
despite
>>>>>>> their choice of degree.

>>>>>>> And having heard several scholarship winners speak at 
conventions,
>>>>>>> a good number of them hope to work in some way in a blindness 
field
>>>>>>> or teaching the blind.  Again, nothing wrong with this, and we 
do
>>>>>>> need blind people doing this, but, for me, it shows how many 
blind
>>>>>>> people go into a blindness related field.

>>>>>>> And in our affiliate, most of the leadership either works in the
>>>>>>> blindness field or hopes too.  Of our eleven state board 
members,
>>>>>>> only two are employed outside of a blindness field, and one is
>>>>>>> working towards a degree so they can work in a blindness job.

>>>>>>> More and more blind people are seeking opportunities outside of 
a
>>>>>>> blindness related career, but many are still drawn to the field 
for
>>>>>>> whatever reason.  Again, we need strong, competent blind people 
in
>>>>>>> this field, but we also need to consider what we truly want as a
>>>>>>> person and not a blind person.

>>>>>>> And a side note, I don't think Lynda meant anything negative by 
her
>>>>>>> comments nor was she implying all blind people work in a 
blindness
>>>>>>> related field.  She was merely detailing her experience and 
speaking
>>>>>>> to that experience alone.

>>>>>>> Bridgit

>>>>>>> Message: 11
>>>>>>> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 22:28:29 -0500
>>>>>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett"<bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>>>>>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Sending this again: Article
>>>>>>> showingwhatparentsofblindkids are facing
>>>>>>> Message-ID:<D073072BEB3F4E1F938EB6B7A6FF190A at OwnerPC
>>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>>>>>> reply-type=response

>>>>>>> Lynda,
>>>>>>> I beg to differ.  Have you been to a nfb convention?
>>>>>>> There are people employed in all walks of life and most 
scholarship
>>>>>>> winners have a career aspiration in a non blindness field; they
>>>>>>> include future teachers, therapists, researchers,? counselors, 
and
>>>>>>> doctors.  Most blind people I know work either in the IT field 
as
>>>>>>> computer programmers or in the government, far from the 
blindness
>>>>>>> fields! Read the braille monitor and you will see the wide 
variety
>>>>>>> of fields too!


>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>> stylist:
>>>>>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/julielj%40ne
b.
>>>>>>> rr.
>>>>>>> com


>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>> No virus found in this message.
>>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>>>> Version: 2012.0.2238 / Virus Database: 2639/5610 - Release Date:
>>>>>>> 02/17/13



>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> stylist:

>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/newmanrl%40c
ox.net

>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> stylist:

>>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/justin.willi
ams2%
>>>> 40gmai
>>>>>> l.com


>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> stylist:

>>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40z
oomin
>>>> ternet
>>>>> .net


>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>>>> stylist:
>>>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/penatwork%40
epix
>>>>> .net


>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>>>> stylist:

>>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40z
oomin
>>>> ternet
>>>> .net


>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>>> stylist:
>>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/penatwork%40
epix.
>>>> net


>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>>> stylist:

>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40z
oominte
>>> rnet.net




>>> ------------------------------

>>> Message: 6
>>> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 13:42:54 -0600
>>> From: "Barbara Hammel"<poetlori8 at msn.com
>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] a RANT
>>> Message-ID:<SNT139-ds21A0BBDE881A633A9E2275EBF40 at phx.gbl
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; 
???
>>> reply-type=response

>>> I agree with Chris.? Those lines were the same that jumped out 
at me.

>>> When you mention about the tantrum and the horn, it makes me 
think of
>>> the
>>> book "The Last Unicorn".

>>> Barbara



>>> Poetry is an echo, asking a shadow to dance.  -- Carl Sandburg
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Chris Kuell
>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 8:15 AM
>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] a RANT

>>> Linda,

>>> I enjoyed reading your rant poem.  I especially like the lines: 
They
>>> waited above the fractured waterfall.? In winter, the Niagara is 
a
>>> frozen concrete lexicon, stacked to the apex with words.
>>> and:
>>> It spilled out, wet, blue ink all over the pristine white pages.
>>> Splashing rude jagged, painful, condescending showers.

>>> Great imagery there.

>>> chris


>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Lynda Lambert"<llambert at zoominternet.net
>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 3:16 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] a RANT


>>> I began writing the RANT poem about a year ago.  I got it out 
and have
>>> spent the entire day on it - tweaking and refining it.  Here it 
is, since
>>> it is a Sestina RANT, I attached it so it retains the form.

>>> Lynda Lambert
>>> 104 River Road
>>> Ellwood City, PA 16117

>>> 724 758 4979

>>> My Blog:? http://www.walkingbyinnervision.blogspot.com
>>> My Website:? http://lyndalambert.com







>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Writers Division web site
>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>> stylist mailing list
>>> stylist at nfbnet.org 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>> stylist:
>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/poetlori8%40
msn.com





>>> ------------------------------

>>> Message: 7
>>> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 13:51:00 -0600
>>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter<bpollpeter at hotmail.com
>>> To:<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [stylist] Definition of blindness
>>> Message-ID:<BLU0-SMTP477C6229425D1B43F30F9B2C4F40 at phx.gbl
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>>> But we don't need to be defined or boxed in to choose tools and 
methods.
>>> Labels like this tend to create, and perpetuate, a hierarchy of
>>> blindness.  If blind, whatever the level, you are aware of the 
situation
>>> and what you need to do.  To label you type of vision loss just 
places an
>>> unnecessary distinction in my book.  What does a formal 
definition or
>>> label do in terms of tools and methods? In most situations, 
these labels
>>> are what box us in such as low vision students being denied 
Braille
>>> education or cane travel.  It says visually impaired seniors 
don't need
>>> alternative skills training.  It denies services and alternative 
skills
>>> training to a lot of people because of this label.  You have low 
vision
>>> so you can strain to use that vision.  You are totally blind so 
you don't
>>> need education because you have little opportunities.  I don't 
want to be
>>> known as the blind girl; I just want to be the girl with a 
talent, with
>>> a personality, with an opinion...  Labels do nothing to bring 
equality.

>>> Bridgit
>>> Message: 4
>>> Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 23:58:23 -0500
>>> From: "justin williams"<justin.williams2 at gmail.com
>>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Definition of blindness
>>> Message-ID:<008901ce0ccb$6a3d9c00$3eb8d400$@gmail.com
>>> Content-Type: text/plain;??? charset="us-ascii"

>>> Yeah it actually might.? You should want to know as much about 
yourself
>>> as possible.? When experts can't give you an answer that's kind 
of
>>> pathetic.  It is good she knows how much she can use what 
limited sight
>>> she has.? Use every tool in the tool box, but always use the 
best tool
>>> for the job.




>>> ------------------------------

>>> Message: 8
>>> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 14:09:58 -0600
>>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter<bpollpeter at hotmail.com
>>> To:<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [stylist] Working in blindness field
>>> Message-ID:<BLU0-SMTP4157DF953F93DD25829FE45C4F40 at phx.gbl
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>>> Julie,

>>> First, I'm not saying this is a bad thing.  Without fellow blind 
people
>>> working in the field, we have little chance of continuing to 
develop a
>>> voice ensuring fair treatment and equal opportunities for the 
blind.

>>> Second, yes, many people are passionate about blindness 
awareness, and
>>> this is a good thing.  This is often why people get involved in
>>> leadership roles.  But we don't all have to follow this path and 
work in
>>> a blindness related field.  I'm extremely passionate about 
advocacy and
>>> education for blind issues, but I don't work in a blindness 
field.  I've
>>> been involved in various leadership roles in the Federation, but 
I also
>>> have a desire to live a life outside of blindness.  As 
passionate as I am
>>> about furthering the goals of the Federation, I have interests, 
hobbies
>>> and dreams in other areas of life.

>>> And I will admit something here: In the years I've been involved 
with
>>> the Federation, I feel very little has been done, especially in 
my
>>> region, to promote and advocate for blind issues.  I've done 
more
>>> independent of the Federation to enact change and educate the 
public
>>> about blindness.  No NFB connections acquired me these 
opportunities, but
>>> I found these opportunities out in the world living my life, 
being apart
>>> of things other than the Federation and blindness.

>>> We all have our own goals and dreams.  We must follow whatever 
path we
>>> feel is best for us.  I just challenge all blind people to truly 
consider
>>> their talents, abilities and dreams.  Some people belong in a 
blindness
>>> field and it's their true calling, but I also believe many 
choose this
>>> route because it seems like the popular choice, or an initial 
passion
>>> developed during training makes them feel inspired to work with 
fellow
>>> blind people in hopes to give them an equal fervor, but 
eventually lose
>>> steam only to find they are already in this chosen fieldor it's 
simply a
>>> safety net.

>>> I just want blind people to realize they can do anything they 
put their
>>> mind too.  That limitations are a human invention, and that we 
can
>>> participate in any area of life we desire.  It may take some
>>> brainstorming and developing of tools and methods, but most 
things are
>>> possible especially in todays world.

>>> Bridgit
>>> Message: 10
>>> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 07:08:09 -0600
>>> From: "Julie J."<julielj at neb.rr.com
>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Working in blindness field
>>> Message-ID:<512227B9.3040109 at neb.rr.com
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

>>> Bridget,

>>> Could it be that more of the state board members and generally 
more
>>> really active members of the NFB are working in the blindness 
field
>>> because blindness is their passion?It makes sense to me that if
>>> promoting opportunities for blind people was your life's mission 
that
>>> you'd work in that field and be more active within an 
organization that
>>> supported you.? I do think all blind people have an interest in
>>> achieving true equality for blind people.  However I think for 
some it is

>>> their major life's work, while for others of us it is something 
we do
>>> when we can around our other main pursuits.  So it makes sense 
to me that

>>> there would be a large number of people within the NFB that do 
or want
>>> to work in the blindness field.

>>> I've been blind for around 20 years now.? While I do know quite 
a few
>>> blind people who work in the blindness field, I'd say I know a 
larger
>>> number who don't.? Perhaps that's because I have never been very
>>> involved in leadership within the NFB.? It does seem that those 
in
>>> leadership positions do work in the blindness field much more
>>> frequently.? Again that makes sense to me due to their strong 
interest
>>> and commitment to the cause.

>>> Julie




>>> ------------------------------

>>> Message: 9
>>> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 14:16:11 -0600
>>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter<bpollpeter at hotmail.com
>>> To:<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [stylist] Definition of blindness
>>> Message-ID:<BLU0-SMTP21656EE04403E05EE284B7EC4F40 at phx.gbl
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>>> Amen, sista, LOL!

>>> Bridgit
>>> Message: 19
>>> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 10:25:58 -0500
>>> From: "Lynda Lambert"<llambert at zoominternet.net
>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Definition of blindness
>>> Message-ID:<D3BF295C75534C31AB0A465754B2179A at Lambert
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; 
???
>>> reply-type=original

>>> This is my thought, too!
>>> Is there some kind of litnus test we must take to be part of the 
group?
>>> And, must the group itself be broken down into little squares on 
a grid?
>>> Creating various definitions for each of us only serves to 
fratgment us
>>> more
>>> than we already might be.
>>> We have a common bond in that we all have situations to deal 
with due to

>>> various eye conditions.  I think we can just be who we are 
without
>>> labels,
>>> don't you?
>>> Lynda




>>> ------------------------------

>>> Message: 10
>>> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 16:35:40 -0500
>>> From: "Lynda Lambert"<llambert at zoominternet.net
>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Definition of blindness
>>> Message-ID:<09710ED297144346BBA1D197CACB0AD3 at Lambert
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; 
???
>>> reply-type=original

>>> this is so accurate.
>>> Two years ago I was connected to a lady who needed help due to 
sight
>>> loss.  When I contacted her, she told me she didn't need help 
because she
>>> was not
>>> "legally blind."? She told me she was not "ready to go there." I 
just
>>> gave
>>> her my information and told her if at any time she needed my 
help, just
>>> contact me.
>>> In about a year, I got an urgent email from this woman.  She 
lamented she

>>> cannot read the labels in her gallery (she is an art gallery 
owner),
>>> could
>>> not see to do the book work, use the computer, cannot read the 
box
>>> directions to bake a cake, and cannot read a book to her 
grandson - she
>>> was
>>> really frantic at this point.
>>> Again, she told me she could not have any help because she is 
not
>>> "legally
>>> blind." I told her that is not true (and I knew with her 
description of
>>> problems she was certainly lower than the label of legally blind 
would
>>> be.

>>> I contacted the district rehab.  for help in knowing what to do.  
It was
>>> not
>>> long before she finally made that phone call, and help was on 
the way.
>>> That
>>> was last fall.
>>> She just sent me an email this week - talking about how happy 
she is to
>>> be
>>> able to run her business all by herself, and she can even paint 
again
>>> with
>>> the help of an Acrobat.? Her life is now much better and she 
feels more
>>> in
>>> control.

>>> Because someone had somehow put a label on her, even though it 
was a
>>> wrong
>>> one, she would have never had the help she needed.? Putting 
labels on
>>> things
>>> just creates so many more problems for us all.

>>> If you watch the Rita Dove video I sent out for our discussion 
on Sunday

>>> night, you will hear her talk about these very same things that 
she
>>> experienced as a very young school child.? Rita Dove was labeled 
in 2nd
>>> grade by another little girl who she thought was her friend - 
lables can

>>> come from anywhere at any time, and they are not always put on 
us by
>>> professionals in the filed.

>>> Lynda







>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Bridgit Pollpeter"<bpollpeter at hotmail.com
>>> To:<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 2:51 PM
>>> Subject: [stylist] Definition of blindness


>>>> But we don't need to be defined or boxed in to choose tools and
>>>> methods.  Labels like this tend to create, and perpetuate, a 
hierarchy
>>>> of blindness.  If blind, whatever the level, you are aware of 
the
>>>> situation and what you need to do.  To label you type of vision 
loss
>>>> just places an unnecessary distinction in my book.  What does a 
formal
>>>> definition or label do in terms of tools and methods? In most
>>>> situations, these labels are what box us in such as low vision
>>>> students being denied Braille education or cane travel.  It says
>>>> visually impaired seniors don't need alternative skills 
training.  It
>>>> denies services and alternative skills training to a lot of 
people
>>>> because of this label.  You have low vision so you can strain to 
use
>>>> that vision.  You are totally blind so you don't need education 
because
>>>> you have little opportunities.  I don't want to be known as the 
blind
>>>> girl; I just want to be the girl with a talent, with a 
personality,
>>>> with an opinion...  Labels do nothing to bring equality.

>>>> Bridgit
>>>> Message: 4
>>>> Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 23:58:23 -0500
>>>> From: "justin williams"<justin.williams2 at gmail.com
>>>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Definition of blindness
>>>> Message-ID:<008901ce0ccb$6a3d9c00$3eb8d400$@gmail.com
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>>>> Yeah it actually might.? You should want to know as much about
>>>> yourself as possible.? When experts can't give you an answer 
that's
>>>> kind of pathetic.  It is good she knows how much she can use 
what
>>>> limited sight she has.? Use every tool in the tool box, but 
always use
>>>> the best tool for the job.


>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>>> stylist:

>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40z
oominte
>>> rnet.net




>>> ------------------------------

>>> Message: 11
>>> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 16:38:13 -0500
>>> From: "Lynda Lambert"<llambert at zoominternet.net
>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] a RANT
>>> Message-ID:<BC5CC9B36C424D689E456B4A1E0D0B0B at Lambert
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; 
???
>>> reply-type=response

>>> I don't know the book.  Can you tell me more about it?

>>> Lynda





>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Barbara Hammel"<poetlori8 at msn.com
>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 2:42 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] a RANT


>>>> I agree with Chris.? Those lines were the same that jumped out 
at me.

>>>> When you mention about the tantrum and the horn, it makes me 
think of
>>>> the
>>>> book "The Last Unicorn".

>>>> Barbara



>>>> Poetry is an echo, asking a shadow to dance.  -- Carl Sandburg
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Chris Kuell
>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 8:15 AM
>>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] a RANT

>>>> Linda,

>>>> I enjoyed reading your rant poem.  I especially like the lines: 
They
>>>> waited above the fractured waterfall.? In winter, the Niagara is 
a
>>>> frozen concrete lexicon, stacked to the apex with words.
>>>> and:
>>>> It spilled out, wet, blue ink all over the pristine white pages.
>>>> Splashing rude jagged, painful, condescending showers.

>>>> Great imagery there.

>>>> chris


>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Lynda Lambert"<llambert at zoominternet.net
>>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 3:16 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] a RANT


>>>> I began writing the RANT poem about a year ago.  I got it out 
and have
>>>> spent
>>>> the entire day on it - tweaking and refining it.
>>>> Here it is, since it is a Sestina RANT, I attached it so it 
retains
>>> the
>>>> form.

>>>> Lynda Lambert
>>>> 104 River Road
>>>> Ellwood City, PA 16117

>>>> 724 758 4979

>>>> My Blog:? http://www.walkingbyinnervision.blogspot.com
>>>> My Website:? http://lyndalambert.com







>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>>> stylist:

>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/poetlori8%40
msn.com
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>>> stylist:

>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40z
oominte
>>> rnet.net




>>> ------------------------------

>>> Message: 12
>>> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 19:38:21 -0500
>>> From: Anita Ogletree<yrstrli at gmail.com
>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Braille
>>> Message-ID:<5122c96a.8cf93a0a.01a9.3281 at mx.google.com
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed

>>> Hi.? My name is Anita.
>>> How much are you asking and would you be willing to make some
>>> arrangements for payments?



>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Homme, James"<james.homme at highmark.com
>>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date sent: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 12:21:12 +0000
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Braille
>>>> Hi Everyone,
>>>> I've been off the list for a long time, and am back again.
>>>> Speaking of Braille, If anyone would want a PowerBraille65, or
>>> knows someone who wants one, I have a refurbished unit that 
would
>>> like a good home.? I have both the serial and parallel cables.?
>>> We could talk about price.? I also have the original box, but no
>>> longer have the original manuals.? The unit was refurbished and
>>> sent to me in January.? Since then, it has been stored in a
>>> dust-free location.

>>>> Thanks.
>>>> Jim

>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>> Ashley Bramlett
>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 5:04 PM
>>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Braille
>>>> Hi,
>>>> I think braille has been real valuable to me in learning to read
>>> and
>>>> learning; I always study in braille reading my braille notes on
>>> the Braille
>>>> Note.
>>>> I also agree that jumbo braille is harder to grasp.
>>>> As a community we have to keep advocating for braille so it 
won't
>>> go away.

>>>> Ashley
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Donna Hill
>>>> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 9:31 PM
>>>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Braille
>>>> Vejas,
>>>> It reminds me of my experience with large print.? They thought 
it
>>> would be
>>>> easier for me to see, but my visual field was so restricted that
>>> I could see
>>>> even less at a time of the bigger words.? Since I was already
>>> piecing words
>>>> together, the step to large print was a real problem.
>>>> Donna
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>> vejas
>>>> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 6:53 PM
>>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Braille
>>>> Hi.
>>>> Yes, jumbo Braille and very small Braille are very hard to read.
>>>> It deffinetly baffles my sighted peers when they see that I 
can't
>>> read the
>>>> jumbo Braille, because they're like, "It's Braille."
>>>> There's a huge difference between the 2.
>>>> Vejas

>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter<bpollpeter at hotmail.com
>>>> To:<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date sent: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 15:29:34 -0600
>>>> Subject: [stylist] Braille
>>>> Jackie,
>>>> I don't believe jumbo Braille is accessible as regular Braille.
>>>> I
>>>> actually have found jumbo Braille to be even more tedious than
>>>> regular
>>>> Braille.? I can feel the raised dots but have problems
>>>> distinguishing the
>>>> characters.
>>>> There are different types of neuropathy, and yes, it can affect
>>>> anyone.
>>>> After the unknown viral infection, pneumonia and uraceptis hit
>>>> me, which
>>>> is what caused my blindness, it also affected other areas of my
>>>> health.
>>>> I since have developed neuropathy, tachycardia (which is an
>>>> accelerated
>>>> heart rate) and my already low blood pressure will suffer
>>>> episodes of
>>>> dangerously low numbers.? And I'm only 31.
>>>> Like you, I find Braille a unique way in which to explore 
letters
>>>> and
>>>> words.? They say you use your visual part of the brain to learn
>>>> Braille,
>>>> and I definitely visualize the letters and characters in my 
head.
>>>> When I
>>>> was first learning Braille and computer with JAWS, I would have
>>>> problems
>>>> typing quickly since I kept visualizing Braille as opposed to 
the
>>>> actual
>>>> letters, and for me, this would trip me up, grin.
>>>> Braille is a crucial and vital tool for blind people though, and
>>>> I know
>>>> a few people with severe dyslexia who have experimented with
>>>> learning
>>>> Braille, and it seems to help.? It's scary to think people,
>>>> including
>>>> blind people, want and believe Braille is becoming obsolete.? I
>>>> know this
>>>> is a huge issue that sparks a lot of debates and contraversy ,
>>>> but also
>>>> remember that print, to an extent, is in danger of changing as
>>>> well.? My
>>>> mom has been a teacher for 16 years, and she says in public
>>>> schools they
>>>> use computers and other screen devices like tablets in which to
>>>> teach
>>>> instead of good old pencil and paper.? Kids are learning to read
>>>> and
>>>> write on computers, and you have to wonder what will be the
>>>> outcome for
>>>> removing tactile sensations from society.
>>>> Okay, this has turned into a rant, smile.
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> Bridgit Kuenning-Pollpeter, editor, Slate&  Style
>>>> Read my blog at:
>>>> http://blogs.livewellnebraska.com/author/bpollpeter/
>>>> "If we discover a desire within us that nothing in this world 
can
>>>> satisfy, we should begin to wonder if perhaps we were created 
for
>>>> another world."
>>>> C.? S.? Lewis
>>>> Message: 8
>>>> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 17:33:28 -0700
>>>> From: "Jacqueline Williams"<jackieleepoet at cox.net
>>>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Braille
>>>> Message-ID:<BC1706CDDEBA44648FAD3846D4233DEA at JackiLeePoet
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>> Bridgit,
>>>> I did not know that this neuropathy hit any but the older among
>>>> us.? I
>>>> did label all the folders in my file in Braille, but can no
>>>> longer read
>>>> it.? I am not only a promoter of Braille for the Blind, I truly
>>>> feel it
>>>> ought to be on the general curriculum.? My reasons may appear
>>>> strange,
>>>> but never have I internalized the structure of words as I did
>>>> when
>>>> learning the advanced words.? In retrospect, I felt it would 
have
>>>> helped
>>>> my learning disabled students.? When you feel the letters and
>>>> also
>>>> visualize them, it works wonders for memory.? I an thing of all
>>>> of the
>>>> prefixes, suffixes, short cuts, etc.? There is so much of value.
>>>> My grandson, then 5 when I was practicing it, picked it up so
>>>> fast, and
>>>> was so enthusiastic, that I wished it had been something
>>>> regularly
>>>> studied in his "seeing" classroom.? They do not publish anything
>>>> in jumbo
>>>> Braille, and I do not know that it is even available on your
>>>> Braille
>>>> readers.? Thanks for your response.? Jackie

>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info
>>>> for stylist:
>>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/brlsurfer%40
>>>> gmail.com
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info
>>> for
>>>> stylist:
>>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/penatwork%40
>>> epix.net


>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info
>>> for
>>>> stylist:
>>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%
>>> 40earthlink.net


>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info
>>> for stylist:
>>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/james.homme%
>>> 40highmark.com

>>>> ________________________________
>>>> This e-mail and any attachments to it are confidential and are
>>> intended solely for use of the individual or entity to whom they
>>> are addressed.? If you have received this e-mail in error, 
please
>>> notify the sender immediately and then delete it.? If you are 
not
>>> the intended recipient, you must not keep, use, disclose, copy 
or
>>> distribute this e-mail without the author's prior permission.?
>>> The views expressed in this e-mail message do not necessarily
>>> represent the views of Highmark Inc., its subsidiaries, or
>>> affiliates.


>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info
>>> for stylist:
>>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/yrstrli%40gm
>>> ail.com



>>> ------------------------------

>>> Message: 13
>>> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:05:24 -0500
>>> From: Anita Ogletree<yrstrli at gmail.com
>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Definition of blindness
>>> Message-ID:<5122cfbd.b21d340a.22ef.ffff9a56 at mx.google.com
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed

>>> Actually, it doesn't.? The only time I ever think but is when
>>> someone asks am I legally blind.
>>> Anita


>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Lynda Lambert"<llambert at zoominternet.net
>>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date sent: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 10:25:58 -0500
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Definition of blindness
>>>> This is my thought, too!
>>>> Is there some kind of litnus test we must take to be part of the
>>> group?
>>>> And, must the group itself be broken down into little squares on
>>> a grid?
>>>> Creating various definitions for each of us only serves to
>>> fratgment us more
>>>> than we already might be.
>>>> We have a common bond in that we all have situations to deal 
with
>>> due to
>>>> various eye conditions.? I think we can just be who we are
>>> without labels,
>>>> don't you?
>>>> Lynda





>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Bridgit Pollpeter"<bpollpeter at hotmail.com
>>>> To:<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 11:53 PM
>>>> Subject: [stylist] Definition of blindness

>>>>> Anita,
>>>>> Does it matter?
>>>>> Bridgit
>>>>> Message: 8
>>>>> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 20:21:43 -0500
>>>>> From: Anita Ogletree<yrstrli at gmail.com
>>>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Sending this again: Article
>>>>> showingwhatparentsofblind kids are facing
>>>>> Message-ID:<5121823f.467b3a0a.1275.ffffa94c at mx.google.com
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
>>>>> There are three separate categories for which individuls without
>>>>> sight are identified: totally blind, legally blind and visually
>>>>> impaired.? Totally blind--if I understand correctly--are those
>>>>> who have no light perception.
>>>>> Visually impaired are those persons who are able to use
>>>>> magnifying devices to enlarge printed documents, etc.? What
>>>>> exactly does the term "legally blind" mean?
>>>>> I was told all of my life that I am totally blind but I have
>>>>> light perception.? I see objects but no shapes.? Every now and
>>>>> then I can guess a particular color depending on how the
>>> lighting
>>>>> in a room is.? I am able to tell when people are walking by me
>>>>> when they are only a couple feet in front of me and I can do
>>> that
>>>>> if I am sitting in a parked car or some other place.? I can see
>>>>> the shadows of trees, poles, buildings and so on when I look out
>>>>> of the window of a car.
>>>>> My question is this: what category would I fit into? My optic
>>>>> nerve is damaged so the medical terminology is optic atrophyddI
>>>>> ask this because the so-called "experts" have not been able to
>>>>> give me an answer.


>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>> info for
>>>>> stylist:

>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40z
>>> oominternet.net




>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info
>>> for stylist:
>>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/yrstrli%40gm
>>> ail.com



>>> ------------------------------

>>> Message: 14
>>> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 21:47:21 -0500
>>> From: "Donna Hill"<penatwork at epix.net
>>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in 
blindness
>>> ??? field
>>> Message-ID:<53130C8156D84A26B96DD5692BF79D0C at OwnerHP
>>> Content-Type: text/plain;??? charset="us-ascii"

>>> Lynda,
>>> Yes, there are many marginalized kids and adults in this world, 
and with
>>> the recession more than before.  It is enfuriating when you 
think of the
>>> "privileged" and how much they take for granted and how they 
have
>>> insullation against their own short-comings and bad decisions.  
Good for
>>> your
>>> daughter trying to help them.

>>> By the time I got to junior high, they were asking kids to 
choose either
>>> college prep or commercial as a course of study to pursue 
starting in
>>> the
>>> eighth grade.  I chose college prep, but I had an encounter with 
a fellow
>>> 7th
>>> grader that really riled me up.  She was the daughter of a 
Lafayette
>>> College
>>> professor.  She came to school on the morning we were to make 
our
>>> decisions
>>> final and sought me out.  She explained, in what I thought was a 
rather
>>> haughty manner, that her father was a professor and that she 
discussed
>>> my
>>> situation with him at dinner the night before.  She knew I 
wanted to take
>>> college prep.  She said that the entire family had agreed that 
it would
>>> be a
>>> mistake for me to consider going to college; there simply was no 
way I
>>> could
>>> do the work.  I wish I had punched her, but alas, I didn't.
>>> Donna

>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Lynda
>>> Lambert
>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 2:27 PM
>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in 
blindness
>>> field

>>> Donna,
>>> Wow, you perked up my memory, too.  yes, it was that same 
dexterity test
>>> that
>>> I took, with pegs and holes.  But, being the obsessive 
compulsive and
>>> over
>>> achiever that I am, well, I aced it! Therefore, I was "pegged" 
to be put
>>> into the proper hole for my future good.? lol? It was the law 
that they
>>> had
>>> to give those tests to students, and they had to have a meeting 
with
>>> every
>>> student at least one time? during the 4 years of high school.  
My meeting
>>> took place after the test was given, just before I graduated - 
so it
>>> would
>>> be "legal."

>>> The other criteria that I see on looking back on all this stuff 
is that
>>> only
>>> the kids from professional backgrounds at home (their parents), 
were
>>> marked
>>> for going on to college.  The rest, were pegged for manual labor 
in a
>>> factory, despite intelligence testing.? Children who came from 
the blue
>>> collar families were seldom, and I do mean very seldom, ever 
encouraged
>>> to
>>> even think of anything else.? Marginalization really begins in 
the
>>> earliest
>>> years of life - and it still does - and that has far more to do 
with
>>> economic issues than it does a disability issue.

>>> My daughter is the librarian of a very FANCY and elite new 
school..? Of
>>> the
>>> 600 students who are there, all but 40 of those students come 
from
>>> fairly
>>> wealthy families and are "entitled" - she asked me recently, "Do 
you
>>> think
>>> those 40 children do not stand out like a sore thumb? "? When 
they have
>>> a
>>> book fair, many of those children have a "budget" of about $50.  
to spend
>>> on
>>> books that day.? The other 40 children come up to her with some 
small
>>> change
>>> in their hand and ask if there is anything they can buy with 
it!? Not
>>> only
>>> are they children who are completely out of place in the 
economic
>>> picture,
>>> they are really denied basic rights to even own a book because 
they have
>>> no
>>> money to buy one.  (She is creating some clever ways to get 
books into
>>> their
>>> hands anyway, but it will be at her own expense.)

>>> I do believe that no matter how marginalized people with 
blindness feel,
>>> there are zillions of others who are also marginalized? as well 
by our
>>> education system, and uncaring entitled class.

>>> In the small rural town where I live, over 42 percent of the 
children in
>>> our
>>> school district are children from below the poverty line.? Their
>>> parents,
>>> for the most part, are the "working poor." They work 2 jobs 
each, and
>>> therefore the children are left to fend for themselves because 
Mom and
>>> Dad
>>> are working day and night just to survive.  I don't think we can 
be very
>>> optimistic about the future of that 42 percent here, do you?? 
Just makes
>>> me
>>> sick.
>>> Lynda




>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Donna Hill"<penatwork at epix.net
>>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 1:11 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in 
blindness
>>> field


>>>> Lynda,
>>>> You bring up one of those similarities I'm always talking about
>>> between
>>>> the
>>>> blindness movement and other civil rights movements.  Years ago, 
the
>>> normal
>>>> perception of women did not include much in the way of?
>>> career-readiness.
>>>> Sure, women had to work in factories in WWII to support the war
>>> effort,
>>>> but
>>>> as for careers, you could teach or be a nurse; that was about 
it.  The
>>>> underlying message was that when it came to what was best for 
women,
>>> men
>>>> knew best .  Fortunately, we have come a long way, baby!

>>>> The whole erasers on pencils thing has dredged up another 
memory.  When
>>> I
>>>> was
>>>> in junior high, they made me take a test of my manual dexterity, 
which
>>> I
>>>> didn't think at the time was something that other kids got. .  
It
>>> involved
>>>> putting pegs into holes on a board -- literally the square peg 
in the
>>>> round
>>>> hole kind of thing.  I was overpowered by the impression that, 
if I did
>>>> well
>>>> on this test, they would push me into manual labor of some sort.  
I
>>> didn't
>>>> know what I could do, but I knew I wasn't having fantasies about
>>> putting
>>>> pegs in holes, so I "threw" the test -- figuratively speaking.

>>>> I had a hard time with setting goals, because on some level I 
believed
>>>> that
>>>> I couldn't do anything.  I had secret dreams of what I'd like to 
do,
>>> but
>>>> there was a real disconnect between that and having a plan.  The 
thing
>>> that
>>>> kept me going was the knowledge that, whatever anyone else said 
or how
>>>> true
>>>> it was, I didn't want those things to be true.  That's really 
all I
>>> had.
>>>> Goals came later.  My somewhat cynical version of the Plan A 
thing is
>>> that
>>>> if
>>>> you strive for Plan A, you might not make it, but you might make 
plan
>>> B.
>>>> If
>>>> you don't strive for plan A, you're not even going to make plan 
B.
>>>> Donna

>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Lynda
>>>> Lambert
>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 12:47 PM
>>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in 
blindness
>>> field
>>>> Donna,
>>>> You might have been putting erasers in pencils - OMG!
>>>> Can you envision yourself in such a place? Never!
>>>> You are living proof of seeking out a goal that is a passion and 
going
>>> for
>>>> it.

>>>> When I graduated from high school, in the dark ages of course, I 
as
>>> told
>>>> by
>>>> the counselor that I had really good hand and eye coordination, 
so I
>>>> should
>>>> work our very well in a factory assembly line.  Never mind that 
my IQ
>>> was
>>>> already beyond that of a college graduate - no, I should apply 
for a
>>>> laborer
>>>> job.  OMG.  I would have been fired very quickly from such a job 
as I
>>> would
>>>> have been there daydreaming and imagining and I would have 
either had
>>> a
>>>> bad
>>>> accident, or caused the entire place to be in shut down mode 
from
>>>> something
>>>> stupid I would have done.

>>>> I could not do any kind of repetitive activity for even a day -
>>> probably
>>>> not
>>>> even for an hour, really.? I really had a good laugh at the 
thought of
>>> you
>>>> doing the erasers, but then, that isn't really funny when you 
follow
>>> it to
>>>> it's end, is it?


>>>> When my students would sit down with me and we would discuss 
their
>>>> schedule
>>>> and their plans for a major, I told them to never settle for 
anything
>>>> other
>>>> than what they have a passion for - because if they do, in 
mid-life
>>> they
>>>> will be longing for the thing they wanted in the first place - 
and so
>>> many
>>>> people at mid-life are so unhappy with the life they created for
>>>> themselves.

>>>> Even if they are financially successful, the failure to pursue 
their
>>> dream
>>>> is still with them.  I have seen this many times.


>>>> Lynda



>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Donna Hill"<penatwork at epix.net
>>>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 12:29 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in 
blindness
>>> field

>>>>> Good advice.
>>>>> Donna

>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Lynda
>>>>> Lambert
>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 12:24 PM
>>>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in 
blindness
>>> field
>>>>> I recommend the book, "Cockeyed" - which is available through 
library
>>> of
>>>>> congress for the reading machines we have - a teenager who was 
going
>>>>> blind,
>>>>> and became a professor of English - it is super funny - and yet 
so
>>>>> enlightening as to the high goals a person can achieve by never
>>> settling
>>>>> for
>>>>> Plan B.
>>>>> My advice, is, those who plan for Plan B, end up being there 
instead
>>> of
>>>>> at
>>>>> Plan A where they really wanted to be.
>>>>> I do not believe in settling for anything less than the absolute
>>> desire
>>>>> of
>>>>> your heart - Plan A is the only acceptable plan in my own life.  
I am
>>> an
>>>>> advid believer in being completely outside the comfort level for 
as
>>> long
>>>>> as
>>>>> it takes to achieve your goals.  And, once you are "there" you
>>> continue to
>>>>> work your butt off without any excuses.
>>>>> Excellence is the only path worth following.

>>>>> Lynda





>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "justin williams"<justin.williams2 at gmail.com
>>>>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 10:52 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in 
blindness
>>> field

>>>>>> New Braska is all kinds of awesome.? Some states are better than
>>> others.
>>>>>> Any field is open, but you may have to move to find it.? Aiwa is
>>> another
>>>>>> good state.? Leaving out the venders and customer service reps, 
no
>>>>>> disrespect to any of the people in those fields, human service 
or
>>>>>> computer
>>>>>> programming fields followed by professors? and lawyers seem to 
be
>>> where
>>>>>> totals or braille users work.? This is by no means cut and dry, 
and
>>> I am
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> including lo vision applicants, because the better your sight, 
the
>>> more
>>>>>> likely you will be to have a job which is outside of that block 
of
>>>>>> fiends
>>>>>> that I just mentioned.? I've met braille users in just about 
every
>>> type
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> career field, but keep in mind that a person who is blind does
>>> develop
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> emphasize a slightly different skill set which naturally fits 
them
>>>>>> better
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> certain fields.? Going outside of those fields generally 
speaking,
>>> will
>>>>>> force the person to have to constantly perform at a higher level 
of
>>>>>> skill
>>>>>> just to have a chance of success.? Of course, that is possible.? 
But
>>>>>> remember, I am making a basic statement.? Feel free to enlighten 
me
>>>>>> further.? Remember, I am saying this with the caveat? that 
anything
>>> is
>>>>>> possible, and I have met Blind teachers, mechanics, business 
owners
>>> who
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> not venders, cabinent makers, among others.? Not all of the 
teachers
>>>>>> were
>>>>>> teachers of the bisually impaired.? Some taught in standard
>>> classroom
>>>>>> formats.? I have heard of blind electricians, met travel agents,
>>> there
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> go, travel agent is another field for the blind, and even read 
the
>>>>>> article
>>>>>> on the blind doctor.  I think he is somewhere in canada.
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>> Robert
>>>>>> Leslie
>>>>>> Newman
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 9:14 AM
>>>>>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>>>>>> Subject: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness
>>> field
>>>>>> Guys
>>>>>> Back when I started working for the commission for the Blind 
here in
>>>>>> Nebraska, back in the seventies, our federation had the mindset
>>> (this is
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> generalization) that if you as a blind person had one of those 
jobs,
>>>>>> then
>>>>>> you were suspect, as in you had gone over to the other side, 
that of
>>> the
>>>>>> enemy! (This was the state of relations between the progressive
>>> blind
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> the rehab services.) Boy, back then, in a NFB chapter around 
here,
>>> you
>>>>>> mostly weren't encouraged to try and become an officer, because 
it
>>> was
>>>>>> feared that you would be a spy for the rehab side, and would be
>>> pushing
>>>>>> their (the bad guys) agenda.  But --- this all changed.  Here in
>>> Nebraska
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> in New Mexico and maybe in some other states, the NFB got the 
bad
>>> agency
>>>>>> head folks fired and had a hand in who and what changes had to 
occur
>>> ---
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> so the NFB philosophy got the upper hand.  And then, it became
>>> respectful
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> NFB members to be part of the rehab scene.  (Here in the Omaha
>>> chapter we
>>>>>> still have one older member, like in the 80's who doesn't like
>>> seeing a
>>>>>> rehab professional being in a leadership position.)

>>>>>> Think of it, one of the larger and more active NFB Division's is 
the
>>>>>> Rehabilitation Professionals.

>>>>>> #2 Taking a serious look at job opportunities for the blind in 
blind
>>>>>> related
>>>>>> professions --- count up the number of rehab agencies and/or 
other
>>>>>> services
>>>>>> around the country and add up how many blind folks are working
>>> within
>>>>>> them
>>>>>> and I bet that number is not as great as you think!!! Consider, 
that
>>> in
>>>>>> general, the not so good agencies who have low expectations are 
the
>>> ones
>>>>>> that will more than likely hire only a few token blind workers.  
And
>>> the
>>>>>> better rehab services, which are the minority in this nationwide
>>> group
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> we are looking at --- sure, they may have more blind guys on 
staff.
>>>>>> (Nebraska at present has 1 blind related rehab service only.  
They
>>> have a
>>>>>> total staff at the commission that numbers around 55 and 17 are
>>> blind.
>>>>>> All
>>>>>> other employed blind people work in a variety of other jobs;
>>> Nebraska is
>>>>>> one
>>>>>> of the better states for employment of the blind and there are a
>>> bunch
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> folks that are doing all kinds of jobs.) So watch that thought 
of
>>> yours,
>>>>>> that there are a big number of blind folks working in blind 
related
>>>>>> jobs ---
>>>>>> for either reason of- A.  That is where they are accepted.  Or 
B.  That
>>> it
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> the job that the blind think of first as to what they can do.

>>>>>> (Just my rambling for this morning.)

>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Julie
>>> J.
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 7:08 AM
>>>>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Working in blindness field

>>>>>> Bridget,

>>>>>> Could it be that more of the state board members and generally 
more
>>>>>> really
>>>>>> active members of the NFB are working in the blindness field 
because
>>>>>> blindness is their passion?It makes sense to me that if 
promoting
>>>>>> opportunities for blind people was your life's mission that 
you'd
>>> work
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> that field and be more active within an organization that 
supported
>>> you.
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> do think all blind people have an interest in achieving true
>>> equality
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> blind people.  However I think for some it is their major life's
>>> work,
>>>>>> while
>>>>>> for others of us it is something we do when we can around our 
other
>>> main
>>>>>> pursuits.  So it makes sense to me that there would be a large 
number
>>> of
>>>>>> people within the NFB that do or want to work in the blindness
>>> field.
>>>>>> I've been blind for around 20 years now.? While I do know quite 
a
>>> few
>>>>>> blind
>>>>>> people who work in the blindness field, I'd say I know a larger
>>> number
>>>>>> who
>>>>>> don't.? Perhaps that's because I have never been very involved 
in
>>>>>> leadership
>>>>>> within the NFB.? It does seem that those in leadership positions 
do
>>> work
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> the blindness field much more frequently.? Again that makes 
sense to
>>> me
>>>>>> due
>>>>>> to their strong interest and commitment to the cause.

>>>>>> Julie



>>>>>> On 2/17/2013 11:13 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote:
>>>>>>> Ashley,

>>>>>>> Without actual stats, we can't really debate this, but that 
being
>>>>>>> said, I beg to differ, at least to a degree.

>>>>>>> I don't think anyone here is trying to make generalizations 
seeing
>>> as
>>>>>>> we all are blind, but we are all speaking from our experiences 
and
>>>>>>> personal observations.

>>>>>>> In the ten years I've been blind, which isn't long compared to
>>> some,
>>>>>>> I've met more blind people working in a blindness-related field 
or
>>>>>>> hoping to be employed in a blindness related field.  For every
>>> lawyer,
>>>>>>> teacher and computer programmer I've met, I've met ten who 
worked
>>> in a
>>>>>>> job relating to blindness.

>>>>>>> There's nothing wrong with this, and most of us would agree that
>>> blind
>>>>>>> people need to be working in these fields, but I also think it 
can
>>>>>>> become a safety net for some; not all, but many.

>>>>>>> I've been to NFB conventions, and yes, there are people employed 
in
>>>>>>> various fields, and many scholarship winners plan to, or are,
>>> pursuing
>>>>>>> a myriad of career paths, but again, for every one of these 
people
>>>>>>> I've met, I've met a dozen working in the blindness field.  Or 
many
>>> of
>>>>>>> these people end up in a blindness field despite their choice of
>>>>>>> degree.

>>>>>>> And having heard several scholarship winners speak at 
conventions,
>>> a
>>>>>>> good number of them hope to work in some way in a blindness 
field
>>> or
>>>>>>> teaching the blind.  Again, nothing wrong with this, and we do 
need
>>>>>>> blind people doing this, but, for me, it shows how many blind
>>> people
>>>>>>> go into a blindness related field.

>>>>>>> And in our affiliate, most of the leadership either works in the
>>>>>>> blindness field or hopes too.  Of our eleven state board 
members,
>>> only
>>>>>>> two are employed outside of a blindness field, and one is 
working
>>>>>>> towards a degree so they can work in a blindness job.

>>>>>>> More and more blind people are seeking opportunities outside of 
a
>>>>>>> blindness related career, but many are still drawn to the field 
for
>>>>>>> whatever reason.  Again, we need strong, competent blind people 
in
>>> this
>>>>>>> field, but we also need to consider what we truly want as a 
person
>>> and
>>>>>>> not a blind person.

>>>>>>> And a side note, I don't think Lynda meant anything negative by 
her
>>>>>>> comments nor was she implying all blind people work in a 
blindness
>>>>>>> related field.  She was merely detailing her experience and 
speaking
>>> to
>>>>>>> that experience alone.

>>>>>>> Bridgit

>>>>>>> Message: 11
>>>>>>> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 22:28:29 -0500
>>>>>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett"<bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>>>>>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Sending this again: Article
>>>>>>> showingwhatparentsofblindkids are facing
>>>>>>> Message-ID:<D073072BEB3F4E1F938EB6B7A6FF190A at OwnerPC
>>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>>>>>> reply-type=response

>>>>>>> Lynda,
>>>>>>> I beg to differ.  Have you been to a nfb convention?
>>>>>>> There are people employed in all walks of life and most 
scholarship
>>>>>>> winners have a career aspiration in a non blindness field; they
>>>>>>> include future teachers, therapists, researchers,? counselors, 
and
>>>>>>> doctors.
>>>>>>> Most blind people I know work either in the IT field as computer
>>>>>>> programmers or in the government, far from the blindness fields!
>>> Read
>>>>>>> the braille monitor and you will see the wide variety of fields
>>> too!

>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info
>>> for
>>>>>> stylist:
>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/julielj%40ne
b.rr.
>>>>>>> com


>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>> No virus found in this message.
>>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>>>> Version: 2012.0.2238 / Virus Database: 2639/5610 - Release Date:
>>>>>>> 02/17/13



>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info
>>> for
>>>>>> stylist:

>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/newmanrl%40c
ox.net

>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info
>>> for
>>>>>> stylist:

>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/justin.willi
ams2%40
>>> gmai
>>>>>> l.com


>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info
>>> for
>>>>>> stylist:

>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40z
oominte
>>> rnet
>>>>> .net


>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>>>> stylist:

>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/penatwork%40
epix.ne
>>> t

>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>>>> stylist:

>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40z
oominte
>>> rnet
>>>> .net


>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>>> stylist:

>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/penatwork%40
epix.ne
>>> t

>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>>> stylist:

>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40z
oominte
>>> rnet
>>> .net


>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Writers Division web site
>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>> stylist mailing list
>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>> stylist:
>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/penatwork%40
epix.ne
>>> t




>>> ------------------------------

>>> Message: 15
>>> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 21:52:48 -0500
>>> From: "Donna Hill"<penatwork at epix.net
>>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Definition of blindness
>>> Message-ID:<E23A22BF4ABE41F38F501A5BB300988D at OwnerHP
>>> Content-Type: text/plain;??? charset="us-ascii"

>>> Bridgit,
>>> You hit on the reason we have the terms.  It has to do with 
"services"
>>> and is
>>> perpetuated by the professionals -- not that we don't perpetuate 
it
>>> ourselves.  Braille isn't for low vision students.  It's better 
for them
>>> to
>>> strain their eyes, get headaches, have no life and fall behind 
-- at
>>> least
>>> they aren't blind.  I agree with you that we're all in this 
together, but
>>> I
>>> also think that the labels we've been given by doctors, teachers 
and
>>> rehab
>>> counsellors impact our lives, many times in ways that are 
similar to
>>> what
>>> has happened to others carrying around the same labels.
>>> Donna

>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Bridgit
>>> Pollpeter
>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 2:51 PM
>>> To: stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [stylist] Definition of blindness

>>> But we don't need to be defined or boxed in to choose tools and 
methods.
>>> Labels like this tend to create, and perpetuate, a hierarchy of
>>> blindness.
>>> If blind, whatever the level, you are aware of the situation and 
what
>>> you
>>> need to do.  To label you type of vision loss just places an 
unnecessary
>>> distinction in my book.  What does a formal definition or label 
do in
>>> terms
>>> of tools and methods? In most situations, these labels are what 
box us
>>> in
>>> such as low vision students being denied Braille education or 
cane
>>> travel.
>>> It says visually impaired seniors don't need alternative skills
>>> training.  It
>>> denies services and alternative skills training to a lot of 
people
>>> because
>>> of this label.  You have low vision so you can strain to use 
that vision.
>>> You
>>> are totally blind so you don't need education because you have 
little
>>> opportunities.  I don't want to be known as the blind girl; I 
just want
>>> to be
>>> the girl with a talent, with a personality, with an opinion...  
Labels do
>>> nothing to bring equality.

>>> Bridgit
>>> Message: 4
>>> Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 23:58:23 -0500
>>> From: "justin williams"<justin.williams2 at gmail.com
>>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Definition of blindness
>>> Message-ID:<008901ce0ccb$6a3d9c00$3eb8d400$@gmail.com
>>> Content-Type: text/plain;??? charset="us-ascii"

>>> Yeah it actually might.? You should want to know as much about 
yourself
>>> as
>>> possible.? When experts can't give you an answer that's kind of
>>> pathetic.  It
>>> is good she knows how much she can use what limited sight she 
has.? Use
>>> every tool in the tool box, but always use the best tool for the 
job.


>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Writers Division web site
>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>> stylist mailing list
>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>> stylist:
>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/penatwork%40
epix.ne
>>> t




>>> ------------------------------

>>> Message: 16
>>> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 21:56:03 -0500
>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett"<bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on : Article showing what??? 
parents&
>>> ??? kidsarefacing
>>> Message-ID:<C2DBF258095F460586C4E9858446A84F at OwnerPC
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>> ??? reply-type=original

>>> Justin,
>>> that figure I believe is false; it does not change because it 
sounds
>>> great
>>> to win more money for employment programs for blind people.  it 
also
>>> evokes
>>> sympathy perhaps? in the government hiring managers.

>>> I agree its? an odd figure and I don't think its accurate for 
the
>>> reasons
>>> people already mentioneed.

>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: justin williams
>>> Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 11:59 PM
>>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on : Article showing what parents&
>>> kidsarefacing

>>> That 70 percent always sat funny with me because the number 
never
>>> changed.

>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Donna
>>> Hill
>>> Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 10:08 PM
>>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on : Article showing what parents&  
kids
>>> arefacing

>>> Robert,
>>> I'm confused.  Shouldn't we be using the Dept.  of Labor's 
formula for
>>> figuring unemployment? If that's what they use for everyone, and 
they're
>>> getting a much lower unemployment rate than we've been led to 
believe
>>> ...
>>> Well, it doesn't sound right.  I mean, 38% is still terrible and 
way
>>> worse
>>> than the general unemployment numbers, but we've been telling 
people
>>> it's
>>> 70%.  If we're using a non-standard method of calculating it, 
aren't we
>>> opening ourselves up to the criticism that we're exaggerating 
the
>>> problem?
>>> What am I missing here?
>>> Donna

>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Robert
>>> Leslie
>>> Newman
>>> Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 8:10 PM
>>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on : Article showing what parents&  
kids
>>> arefacing

>>> Here are a couple of other interesting facts:

>>> #1 90% of the 30+ blind folks who are employed are Braille 
users!

>>> #2 Here in Nebraska since we have had a training center for the 
blind,
>>> teaching non-visual techniques, 87 percent of the graduates are
>>> employed.

>>> #3 If you go back into the archives of the Braille Monitor, and 
search
>>> for
>>> an article written by Doctor James S.  Nyman, which is a script 
of a
>>> speech
>>> he gave at the White cane banquet sponsored by the Omaha NFB 
chapter,
>>> you
>>> will find a different number of how many of the blind are 
unemployed.
>>> That
>>> is to say, if in figuring the unemployment rate of the blind, by 
using
>>> the
>>> same criteria that the Department of Labor uses to figure 
unemployment
>>> of
>>> the general public, then you get a number of unemployed blind 
being more
>>> like 38%.

>>> (Note- The year after Doctor Nyman gave his speech, I too got my 
keynote
>>> speech for the White Cane? banquet placed in the Monitor - I 
didn't give
>>> the
>>> speech, I wrote it and a blind actor posing as Lewis Braille 
gave it.  I
>>> wrote it as if we had contracted with Lewis Braille to evaluate 
the
>>> status
>>> of Braille usage and teaching in the USA, today.) [That was the 
year of
>>> Lewis's 200 birthday.[


>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Writers Division web site
>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>> stylist mailing list
>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>> stylist:
>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/penatwork%40
epix.ne
>>> t


>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Writers Division web site
>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>> stylist mailing list
>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>> stylist:
>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/justin.willi
ams2%40
>>> gmai
>>> l.com


>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Writers Division web site
>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>> stylist mailing list
>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>> stylist:
>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%
40earth
>>> link.net




>>> ------------------------------

>>> Message: 17
>>> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 22:00:48 -0500
>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett"<bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Sending this
>>> ??? again:Articleshowingwhatparentsofblindkids are facing
>>> Message-ID:<CA34D47CE8C34A148B66FD3DF9A31C42 at OwnerPC
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>> ??? reply-type=response

>>> yes it would be cool to have the stats on non blind versus blind 
fields.

>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Lynda Lambert
>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 9:43 AM
>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Sending this
>>> again:Articleshowingwhatparentsofblindkids are facing

>>> Yes, It would be interesting to really have the statistics on 
it,
>>> wouldn't
>>> it.
>>> Lynda





>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett"<bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 10:28 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Sending this again:
>>> Articleshowingwhatparentsofblindkids are facing


>>>> Lynda,
>>>> I beg to differ.  Have you been to a nfb convention?
>>>> There are people employed in all walks of life and most 
scholarship
>>>> winners have a career aspiration in a non blindness field; they
>>> include
>>>> future teachers, therapists, researchers,? counselors, and 
doctors.
>>>> Most blind people I know work either in the IT field as computer
>>>> programmers or in the government, far from the blindness
>>>> fields! Read the braille monitor and you will see the wide 
variety of
>>>> fields too!

>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Lynda Lambert
>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 8:29 AM
>>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Sending this again: Article
>>>> showingwhatparentsofblindkids are facing

>>>> and, I am guessing that the 90 percent of the 30 percent, work 
in
>>> blind
>>>> related fields from what I am hearing.
>>>> It would be interesting to know.

>>>> Lynda




>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "justin williams"<justin.williams2 at gmail.com
>>>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 9:15 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Sending this again: Article
>>>> showingwhatparentsofblind
>>>> kids are facing


>>>>> I only heard reference to that once.? I wonder if we can find 
the
>>> stat.
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>> Barbara
>>>>> Hammel
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 9:12 PM
>>>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Sending this again: Article showing
>>>>> whatparentsofblind kids are facing

>>>>> I think the stat that goes around is that of the 30 percent who 
are
>>>>> employed, 90 percent of them use Braille.
>>>>> Barbara




>>>>> Poetry is an echo, asking a shadow to dance.  -- Carl Sandburg
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: justin williams
>>>>> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 5:20 PM
>>>>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Sending this again: Article showing
>>>>> whatparentsofblind kids are facing

>>>>> I heard a stat once that despite 70 percent of the blind being
>>>>> unemployed,
>>>>> only 44 percent of those who operate as totals, or cloes to 
total are
>>>>> unemployed.? In other words, those who can read braille are less
>>> likely
>>>>> to
>>>>> be unemployed.? I think that is because they are comfortable in 
using
>>> the
>>>>> blindness skills.

>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Donna
>>> Hill
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 6:14 PM
>>>>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Sending this again: Article showing what
>>>>> parentsofblind kids are facing

>>>>> Lynda
>>>>> You raise some interesting points.  I too have often wondered 
what
>>>>> percentage
>>>>> of the 30% of blind people of working age who are working are
>>> employed in
>>>>> blindness-related jobs.  I haven't been able to find anything 
official
>>> on
>>>>> this.  I think (and maybe this shows me to be more of an 
optimist than
>>> I
>>>>> usually care to admit) that it is less now than years ago.

>>>>> There are many blind people who have broken barriers in 
professions
>>> like
>>>>> engineering, chemistry and the law, and of course many blind 
lawyers.
>>> I
>>>>> only
>>>>> know of two living blind people (both men) who completed medical
>>> school
>>>>> as
>>>>> blind students.

>>>>> Celest Lopes is the head of the Racketeering Department at the 
NYC
>>>>> District
>>>>> Attorney's Office, and there are many blind women in teaching 
and
>>> social
>>>>> work.  Temple U.  had a blind summa cum laude a few years ago 
(Harriet
>>> Go),
>>>>> who is now one of several blind teachers in the Philadelphia 
School
>>>>> District.  I think our NFB Scholarship Committee head, Patty 
Chang, is
>>> an
>>>>> ADA
>>>>> in Chicago, and Elizabeth Campbell has worked as a reporter for 
a
>>>>> newspaper
>>>>> in Fort Worth for over 20 years.

>>>>> In terms of the sighted TVIs and rehab counsellors being given
>>> preference
>>>>> over the blind ones, I think there's a lot of truth in that.
>>>>> Nevertheless,
>>>>> my brother, who teaches Braille at Lions World Services in 
Little
>>> Rock,
>>>>> has
>>>>> survived many lay-offs and was recently given a promotion to a
>>> management
>>>>> position.

>>>>> I always get the impression though that when the average sighted
>>> person
>>>>> hears about any of these accomplishments, they either think 
they're
>>> being
>>>>> fed a line of bull or that the specific individual is some sort 
of
>>>>> sevant --
>>>>> that the accomplishment is not something that a normally 
intelligent
>>>>> blind
>>>>> person could achieve.

>>>>> When I was heading off for college and indeed throughout my 
college
>>> and
>>>>> post
>>>>> college years, I felt pressured by my advisers to go into a 
field
>>> like
>>>>> teaching blind children or rehab counselling.  I fought fiercely
>>> against
>>>>> this
>>>>> for several reasons.  First, it was my opinion that I really 
didn't
>>> have
>>>>> anything to contribute to blind kids, since I was having such a 
hard
>>> time
>>>>> myself and didn't have Braille or mobility skills.  Second, I 
couldn't
>>>>> help
>>>>> wondering how it could work to funnel all the blind folks into
>>>>> blindness-related jobs.  It felt unsustainable.  Third, it felt 
like I
>>> was
>>>>> being pushed aside into that separate but "not" equal world out 
of
>>> which
>>>>> black people were trying so desperately to escape.

>>>>> As far as the trained professionals being stumbling blocks ...  
I
>>> think
>>>>> that
>>>>> is far too often the case.  When I was doing the Braille 
literacy
>>> series,
>>>>> I
>>>>> had occasion to monitor the online forum for TVIs.  They were
>>> discussing
>>>>> this
>>>>> business about Braille literacy that the NFB had been promoting.  
I
>>> don't
>>>>> know if you recall, but the NFB got Congress to authorize the 
minting
>>> of
>>>>> a
>>>>> Braille silver dollar as one of the two commemorative coins for 
2009,
>>>>> which
>>>>> was the 200th anniversary of Louis Braille's birth.  The one 
post that
>>>>> stood
>>>>> out for me came from a TVI who admitted that she wept openly 
when she
>>>>> learned that she had to teach Braille.  If the teachers of 
sighted
>>>>> children
>>>>> were as poorly equipped to teach print reading as the TVIs are 
to
>>> teach
>>>>> Braille, there would be rioting in the streets.

>>>>> Carlton Ann Cook Walker, the current president of the National
>>>>> Organization
>>>>> of Parents of Blind Children, had a lot to say about this issue.  
When
>>> I
>>>>> get
>>>>> the chance, I'll try to find the article I did about her for my
>>> Braille
>>>>> Literacy series.  Her story, which I subtitled, "Lessons from a
>>>>> Right-Handed
>>>>> World," was the article that got picked up the most by other 
sites.

>>>>> I must say though, that there are many wonderful TVIs who are 
fierce
>>>>> advocates for their students.  Sister Meg at the St.  Lucy's Day 
School
>>> for
>>>>> Blind Children run by the Philadelphia Arch Dioces comes to 
mind, as
>>> do a
>>>>> couple of the TVIs I corresponded with concerning the winners of 
our
>>>>> Youth
>>>>> Braille Writing Contest.
>>>>> Donna
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Lynda
>>>>> Lambert
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 1:51 PM
>>>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Sending this again: Article showing what
>>>>> parentsofblind kids are facing

>>>>> Donna, what a powerful story! It is really well done, and I love 
the
>>> way
>>>>> you
>>>>> end it with information for others who may be looking for help.
>>>>> It seems to me as though the people who are "trained 
professionals"
>>> in
>>>>> this
>>>>> field are often more of a stumbling block than the helpers that 
they
>>> are
>>>>> supposed to be.
>>>>> This is very enlightening to me, as I think it would be to 
anyone who
>>> had
>>>>> no
>>>>> prior knowledge about blindness.
>>>>> One person told me when I lost my sight, that she had never 
known of
>>> a
>>>>> blind
>>>>> person who had a job in any other field than something that is
>>>>> blind-related.  This young man will have many obstacles in his? 
path
>>> as he
>>>>> pursues his dreams for a profssion in law, I am sure.
>>>>> I often wonder, out of the percent of blind people who are 
employed,
>>> how
>>>>> many do you suppose are working in non-blind related fields?
>>>>> Have you ever done research on this?
>>>>> One thing that perplexes me, or should I say it dissapoints me, 
is
>>> when
>>>>> sighted people are working at jobs in the blind related industry 
that
>>>>> could
>>>>> or should be done by blind people.  And, I wonder if they are 
given
>>>>> preference over blind people for those jobs.? As in any field, 
job
>>>>> placement
>>>>> is a political animal first and foremost, I know! But, when I 
was at
>>> the
>>>>> rehab school I saw that some blind people had been let go, and
>>> sighted
>>>>> persons retained and it bothered me so much.  I cannot tell you 
how
>>>>> important
>>>>> it was to me the day I had called there, and the person on the 
phone
>>> with
>>>>> me
>>>>> told me she was blind.  It immediately gave me hope - and then, 
while
>>> I
>>>>> was
>>>>> there, that same person was let go, along with some others, due 
to
>>>>> cutback,
>>>>> we were told.  Hmmm?

>>>>> Lynda

>>>>> Lynda


>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "justin williams"<justin.williams2 at gmail.com
>>>>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 12:56 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Sending this again: Article showing what
>>> parents
>>>>> ofblind kids are facing


>>>>>> that is a fantastic story.? I would have been calling for a law 
suit
>>> a
>>>>>> log time ago.? I would have taken the legal stick and beat them
>>> about
>>>>>> the had and shoulders into submission.? She has a lot of 
patients.?
>>> I
>>>>>> would have stepd on their throats.

>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Donna
>>>>>> Hill
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 12:26 PM
>>>>>> To: Stylist
>>>>>> Subject: [stylist] Sending this again: Article showing what 
parents
>>> of
>>>>>> blind kids are facing

>>>>>> I don't know if this ever made the list with the problems we
>>> recently
>>>>>> had.
>>>>>> Since a week's gone by with no comment, I thought perhaps not.

>>>>>> Donna

>>>>>> Hi all,

>>>>>> With the lively discusion we've been having, I thought I'd like 
to
>>>>>> share this article I wrote for American Chronicle in 2009.  
Don't
>>> think
>>>>>> this sort of thing isn't happening today.

>>>>>> Donna



>>>>>> Braille Literacy: For the Love of Reading

>>>>>> A Mother's Struggle with America's Special Education System

>>>>>> By Donna W.  Hill

>>>>>> (Word count: 4981)



>>>>>> Ad: If you were a modern American educator would you expect a
>>> legally
>>>>>> blind child to rely upon his remaining vision to use power tools 
or
>>> go
>>>>>> snow tubing? How slow would a child have to read print for you 
to
>>>>>> consider teaching him Braille?? How bent over would he have to 
be,
>>>>>> before it occurred to you that he might benefit from a white 
cane?
>>>>>> Now that Carrie Gilmer's son is headed off to college, she can 
talk
>>>>>> about their ten-year ordeal.
>>>>>> As
>>>>>> President of the Minnesota chapter of the National Organization 
of
>>>>>> Parents of Blind Children, she knows that her experiences are
>>>>>> unfortunately all too common.? From her initial reactions to
>>> learning
>>>>>> that her son was legally blind to the mistakes she hopes other
>>> parents
>>>>>> won't make, she is candid about the fight she has just been 
through.
>>>>>> Carrie's story is a must read for anyone with a friend or loved 
one
>>>>>> dealing with poor vision.





>>>>>> Jordan Richardson (18, Minneapolis) is a Blaine High School 
senior
>>>>>> with a
>>>>>> 3.7 grade point average.? He is a trombonist in the school's 
jazz
>>>>>> band, a reporter for the school newspaper and in Spanish club.? 
As a
>>>>>> freshman, he was on Student Council.? As a sophomore and junior, 
he
>>>>>> was in Science Olympiad.? In his junior year he was in the 
National
>>>>>> Honor Society and received a community service award.? His 
volunteer
>>>>>> projects include tutoring students learning English as a second
>>>>>> language and mentoring blind children at a summer camp.? He 
reads
>>> the
>>>>>> Constitution for fun and plans to become a judge.



>>>>>> When we hear stories about young men like Jordan, we are all 
proud
>>> and
>>>>>> perhaps a bit relieved that the future is in such intelligent,
>>> gifted
>>>>>> and generous hands.? The fact that Jordan has done all of this 
as a
>>>>>> blind person is not the amazing or miraculous part of the 
story.? In
>>>>>> fact, if you get too caught up in that, you'll miss the point 
that
>>> he
>>>>>> and his mother, Carrie Gilmer, want to get across: blind people 
can
>>>>>> compete with their sighted peers, when given the tools and
>>>>>> encouragement to do so.



>>>>>> There is, however, something which is extraordinary about 
Jordan's
>>>>>> story.
>>>>>> It involves what his mother had to go through to get him an
>>> education
>>>>>> in the first place.? Carrie, who has been president of the 
Minnesota
>>>>>> chapter of the non-profit National Organization of Parents of 
Blind
>>>>>> Children (NOPBC):

>>>>>> <http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Parents_and_Teachers.asp
>>>>>> http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Parents_and_Teachers.asp</a

>>>>>> since 2004, is working to stop what happened to her and Jordan 
from
>>>>>> happening to other families.



>>>>>> Unfortunately, her story is all too common.  The result is lower
>>>>>> achievement, dependence and the need for tax-payer support of
>>>>>> unemployable blind adults.




>>>>>> Braille literacy is declining.? Only ten percent of America's 
blind
>>>>>> children are being taught to read and write Braille - down from
>>> fifty
>>>>>> percent in the '60s.? Braille's significance can be glimpsed in 
two
>>>>>> statistics.? Only thirty percent of working-age blind Americans 
are
>>>>>> employed, and over eighty percent of them read Braille.



>>>>>> There are three major areas in which a person with low vision 
may
>>> need
>>>>>> to make adjustments: literacy (reading and writing), orientation 
and
>>>>>> mobility (getting around) and manual activities (everything from
>>>>>> cooking and sewing to doing the laundry and woodworking.



>>>>>> Does the thought of a blind person cooking bacon or using a 
power
>>> saw
>>>>>> make you cringe a little?? There are blind cooks and carpenters 
who
>>> do
>>>>>> these things every day.? What is truly scary is when low vision
>>>>>> students are expected to do them without learning the non-visual
>>>>>> skills which make the safe accomplishment of these tasks 
possible.



>>>>>> Sight is a powerful sense.? People are naturally inclined to 
"look"
>>>>>> even when their vision is unreliable.  One of the biggest 
challenges
>>> of
>>>>>> educating low vision and legally blind children is knowing when 
to
>>>>>> stop encouraging them to use their remaining eyesight.? Should 
you
>>>>>> teach them Braille when they are reading large print half as 
fast as
>>>>>> their fully sighted peers?
>>>>>> Maybe at a third the speed?? What about at a quarter of the 
speed,
>>> or
>>>>>> when they're getting headaches and not having time for friends 
and
>>>>>> hobbies?? If the child's vision is well beyond the limits for 
legal
>>>>>> blindness and the child has a degenerative condition, do you 
teach
>>>>>> Braille early, taking advantage of the increased tactile 
sensitivity
>>>>>> in children which makes learning Braille easier in childhood?



>>>>>> The Special Education system in the US is so biased toward using
>>>>>> faulty eyesight that children are made disabled not from their 
eye
>>>>>> condition, but from the choices that force them to settle for
>>>>>> substandard achievement rather than learn non-visual skills.? 
Year
>>>>>> after year from the time Jordan was in kindergarten, Carrie
>>> struggled
>>>>>> with a rat's nest of scenarios which threatened to hold her son
>>> back,
>>>>>> limit his potential and rob him of his childhood.  From not 
knowing
>>> how
>>>>>> to evaluate a child's usable vision and

>>>>>> refusing to provide adaptive equipment,???to judging his 
potential
>>>>>> against
>>>>>> what they thought was possible for blind kids - i.e.  not much 
-- and
>>>>>> sabotaging her efforts, the Special Education system has given 
her
>>> an
>>>>>> uphill battle.



>>>>>> Jordan is legally blind.  He has a degenerative condition called
>>>>>> retinal cone and rod dystrophy, which will probably take the 
little
>>>>>> sight he has eventually.? Carrie didn't know there was anything
>>> wrong
>>>>>> at first.



>>>>>> "He liked to get close to things," she says, "but many kids do."



>>>>>> Jordan was also driving his tricycle into the curb.? When she
>>>>>> expressed concern to his pediatrician, Carrie's suspicions were
>>>>>> brushed aside as a mother's worry.? Not until he was about to 
attend
>>>>>> kindergarten did she learn the truth.



>>>>>> "It was the daycare center at the Y where I was working out," 
she
>>>>>> says, "They mentioned it and I insisted that the pediatrician 
send
>>> him
>>>>>> to an eye doctor."



>>>>>> Carrie remembers the eye doctor frowning and saying, "He has an
>>> awful
>>>>>> lot of vision loss for his age."? Jordan was sent home with 
glasses
>>>>>> for his astigmatism, which didn't help.



>>>>>> When a specialist finally diagnosed Jordan's condition, his 
vision
>>> was
>>>>>> 20/400 - worse than legal blindness which is 20/200.? The doctor
>>> said
>>>>>> there was nothing they could do and that he would call the state
>>>>>> services for the blind to inform them.



>>>>>> "I cried for twenty-one days," says Carrie, "I couldn't 
understand.
>>>>>> How could he be blind without me knowing?? How could he be blind 
and
>>>>>> still see the McDonald's sign?"



>>>>>> Like most of us, Carrie had little personal experience with 
blind
>>>>>> people, and her impressions were not favorable.



>>>>>> "When I was three years old, my grandparents took me to visit a
>>> couple
>>>>>> they knew.? The husband had lost his sight," she remembers, "He 
was
>>>>>> really grumpy and barking orders at his wife."



>>>>>> Other than that, she knew of Helen Keller, Ray Charles, the 
Sidney
>>>>>> Poitier movie "A Patch of Blue" and that some blind people could
>>> string
>>>>> beads.
>>>>>> She
>>>>>> believed that blind people had little chance of living 
independent,
>>>>>> productive and happy lives.



>>>>>> "I realized that my image of blindness was a horrible one and it
>>> hurt
>>>>>> to think that people would think that way about Jordan," she 
says.



>>>>>> A Gift From Beyond the Grave



>>>>>> In her pain, Carrie began to notice that something didn't add 
up.?
>>> It
>>>>>> was the difference between her impression of what blindness 
meant
>>> and
>>>>>> the bright little boy she knew.



>>>>>> She had just moved and was unpacking a box of literature left by 
her
>>>>>> late grandmother.? On top was something from the NFB.? Her
>>> grandmother
>>>>>> had a secret.? She had lost enough vision to be legally blind, 
and
>>> she
>>>>>> had made donations to the NFB.



>>>>>> "The word 'blind' just leapt off the page at me," says Carrie, 
"I
>>> read
>>>>>> the NFB books "Making Hay" and "What Color is the Sun."? They 
made
>>> me
>>>>>> stop crying and gave me hope.? Then, I made my first big 
mistake."



>>>>>> Her mistake was that she assumed the professionals at Jordan's
>>> school
>>>>>> would also have a positive attitude about blindness and would 
get
>>>>>> Jordan the tools and instruction he needed to reach his true
>>>>>> potential.



>>>>>> "I should have called the NFB right then and there," she says.



>>>>>> In kindergarten, it seemed as though Jordan was on the right 
track.
>>>>>> He had a Braille instructor with forty years' experience.  She 
worked
>>>>>> with Jordan for half an hour after school four times a week.? 
She
>>> said
>>>>>> he was picking it up quickly and was tactually gifted.? The 
school
>>>>>> said he was doing well.



>>>>>> Carrie didn't realize that they meant doing well "for a blind
>>> person."
>>>>>> Only
>>>>>> much later did she understand that to say that???Jordan was
>>> tactually
>>>>>> gifted, represented a sighted bias, and that even that first 
teacher
>>>>>> had mythical ideas about blindness and the sense of touch.



>>>>>> "It's people's ability to use other senses not the strength of 
those
>>>>>> senses," she says, "People don't realize how much they are 
actually
>>>>>> using
>>>>>> their other senses.???They don't spend time analyzing what they 
do.?
>>> I
>>>>>> touched the kitchen counter one day after wiping it off and I
>>> realized
>>>>>> that I could feel that it wasn't as clean as it looked.? Also, 
they
>>>>>> don't realize how often they are wrong about what they see - a
>>> person
>>>>>> 'looked' nice, the ice 'looked' safe."



>>>>>> Sighted bias notwithstanding, Jordan's first Braille teacher 
wanted
>>>>>> Jordan
>>>>>> to learn Braille and wait at least until forth grade to decide 
if he
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> be able to read well enough using print.? She told Carrie they 
would
>>> be
>>>>>> gradually adding Braille into his school day.? As she retired, 
she
>>> gave
>>>>>> Carrie a prophetic warning.



>>>>>> "She told us to make sure that we held the next teacher 
accountable,
>>>>>> because
>>>>>> there were 'different philosophies.'"



>>>>>> The Fight Begins



>>>>>> In first grade, Jordan's new TBS (Teacher of Blind Students) 
wanted
>>> to
>>>>>> teach
>>>>>> him to use an abacus for math and work on orientation and 
mobility
>>> (OM).
>>>>>> Suddenly, the thirty-minute sessions were no longer solid 
Braille
>>>>>> instruction.  In addition, the quality of the instruction 
changed.



>>>>>> "She wanted to make Braille fun, implying that it wasn't fun,"
>>> Carrie
>>>>>> remembers, "They just played Yahtzee and other games that were 
not
>>> even
>>>>>> Braille-based.  She didn't think Jordan needed to use Braille 
during
>>> the
>>>>>> day
>>>>>> and wouldn't really need it for a long time."



>>>>>> Jordan, who didn't understand why he needed Braille, began to 
subtly
>>>>>> fall
>>>>>> behind.? Carrie's other two children had been fluent readers by
>>> then,
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> Jordan was a very slow reader and didn't enjoy it.? In first 
grade,
>>> his
>>>>>> print reading speed was twenty-five words per minute???and ten 
in
>>>>>> Braille.
>>>>>> She thought he needed more Braille instruction, but the teachers
>>> didn't.


>>>>>> Carrie was worried, however.? It seemed to her that Jordan would 
be
>>>>>> better
>>>>>> at Braille if he had some Braille books and was being encouraged 
to
>>> read
>>>>>> them.? She complained at the end of that year to the Director of
>>> Special
>>>>>> Education.? For five weeks, they gave him some Braille 
instruction
>>> twice
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> week but no books.



>>>>>> "They didn't even mention that NLS has Braille books," Carrie 
says,
>>> "I
>>>>>> assumed I had to get them from the school."



>>>>>> People with print handicaps, including sight loss, dyslexia and
>>> other
>>>>>> physical and learning disabilities, can borrow Braille and 
recorded
>>>>>> books
>>>>>> from the National Library Service for the Blind and Physically
>>>>>> Handicapped:

>>>>>> <http://www.loc.gov/nls/>  http://www.loc.gov/nls/



>>>>>> In second grade Jordan was having more problems getting around.  
He
>>> was
>>>>>> hesitant about the ground in front of him.? In gym, he was told 
to
>>> sit
>>>>>> by
>>>>>> the wall so he wouldn't get hurt.



>>>>>> "He still wanted to hold my hand at seven!" Carrie remembers.



>>>>>> Jordan had also stopped interacting with his classmates.? Carrie
>>> began
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> question the decisions the school was making.  She wanted Jordan 
to
>>> have
>>>>>> Braille in the classroom.



>>>>>> In a decision based on convenience and the cost of bussing him 
home,
>>> the
>>>>>> school announced that they were going to remove him from science 
and
>>>>>> geography classes for special instruction instead of teaching 
him
>>> after
>>>>>> school.? Carrie asked how this could be a good thing 
educationally,
>>> when
>>>>>> he
>>>>>> loved those subjects.  She was afraid that would make him 
dislike
>>>>>> Braille.



>>>>>> "He liked the pictures in print books, and I didn't want him to 
get
>>> a
>>>>>> bad
>>>>>> attitude."



>>>>>> They then said they could teach him Braille during reading 
class,
>>> but
>>>>>> Carrie
>>>>>> believed that Jordan would still be missing something.? She 
wanted
>>> after
>>>>>> school Braille instruction plus some during school.? In school,
>>> Jordan
>>>>>> received only 5 minutes of Braille spelling lessons a week and 
no
>>>>>> Braille
>>>>>> books.



>>>>>> Jordan was alone at lunch and not mingling.? The Vision 
Department
>>> kept
>>>>>> saying that Jordan could see up close and was doing just fine.? 
They
>>>>>> recommended against adaptive physical education because "it's 
for
>>>>>> totally
>>>>>> blind kids and they don't do that much anyway."? Carrie's
>>> relationship
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> the Special Ed staff broke down when they suggested that Jordan 
join
>>> a
>>>>>> support group for behavior problems.



>>>>>> A New Way of Looking at Jordan's Progress



>>>>>> Carrie learned that the school secretary had raised two blind
>>> children.
>>>>>> Like Carrie, she had experienced problems with the Special Ed
>>>>>> department.
>>>>>> She gave Carrie a copy of the NFB's "Future Reflections" 
magazine.?
>>> The
>>>>>> article "Is Your Child Age Appropriate" by professional educator 
of
>>>>>> blind
>>>>>> children ruby Ryles

>>>>>> made Carrie understand that she was the expert about whether her 
son
>>> was
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> track based on his own potential.


>>> 
http://www.nfb.org/images/nfb/Publications/fr/fr11/Issue5/f110502
.html


>>>>>> Carrie realized that the answer to the article's question was 
"no,"
>>> if
>>>>>> her
>>>>>> expectations for Jordan were the same as they would be, if he 
were
>>>>>> sighted.
>>>>>> She finally made the call she should have made years before.? 
Judy
>>>>>> sanders,
>>>>>> at the NFB of Minnesota told her how to get Braille books and
>>> stressed
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> importance of expecting Jordan to keep up with his class.  
Carrie
>>> entered
>>>>>> Jordan in the "Braille readers are leaders" contest:

>>>>>> <http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Braille_Initiative.asp
>>>>>> http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Braille_Initiative.asp



>>>>>> "The Vision Department at Jordan's school treated me like I did 
not
>>> know
>>>>>> what I was talking about.? They considered his vision to be good 
and
>>>>>> wanted
>>>>>> him to use it every second," says Carrie, "They acted like my
>>> husband
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> were trying to make Jordan blind."



>>>>>> Jordan was still not interacting with his classmates.? The 
school
>>>>>> suggested
>>>>>> having the class cover their eyes with wax paper to experience 
what
>>>>>> Jordan
>>>>>> could see.? Carrie, however, knew that this didn't represent
>>> Jordan's
>>>>>> vision.? Judy, who is also blind, offered to come to school that
>>> spring
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> give Jordan his Braille certificate and talk to the class about
>>>>>> blindness.



>>>>>> When Carrie picked Judy up at the bus station, it was her first
>>>>>> experience
>>>>>> with a competent blind person.  It was Judy's white cane that 
drew
>>> her
>>>>>> attention.



>>>>>> "She got out of the car by herself and just walked along with me
>>> like
>>>>>> anyone," Carrie says.



>>>>>> Everyone loved Judy, including Jordan.? Carrie wanted more time 
to
>>> talk
>>>>>> about the NFB's philosophy and offered to drive Judy home.? Judy
>>>>>> encouraged
>>>>>> her to go to the NFB's annual convention, saying they would 
learn
>>> more
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> week than she could tell her in years.



>>>>>> For financial reasons, Carrie was reluctant to attend the
>>> convention.
>>>>>> She
>>>>>> was a stay-at-home Mom and her husband was a teacher.? But, the 
NFB
>>> of
>>>>>> MN
>>>>>> sent them, and it changed their lives.? Carrie learned about the
>>> slate
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> stylus - the traditional method for writing Braille, which 
Jordan
>>> had
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> been taught.? Also, Jordan had been walking all bent over and 
the
>>> school
>>>>>> had
>>>>>> never even mentioned using a cane.



>>>>>> For third grade, Carrie wanted Jordan to learn to use a white 
cane
>>> and
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> write Braille.  She again asked that he have Braille books in 
class.?
>>> The
>>>>>> TBS
>>>>>> didn't want to teach the slate and stylus until forth grade.? 
Carrie
>>> was
>>>>>> overwhelmed.



>>>>>> "There were so many issues and so much opposition from the 
school,"
>>> she
>>>>>> sighs, "You have to ask yourself, 'Which battle do we fight?'"



>>>>>> That year, the only time Jordan read Braille was for thirty 
minutes
>>> at
>>>>>> night
>>>>>> when his mother insisted.? He was still falling behind.? Forth 
grade
>>> was
>>>>>> no
>>>>>> different.? When Jordan was ready for fifth grade, Carrie 
demanded
>>> that
>>>>>> all
>>>>>> of his textbooks be in Braille.



>>>>>> "The TBS banged her fist on the table and said, 'Whatever.? He's
>>> never
>>>>>> going
>>>>>> to be a Braille reader.'" Carrie says,???"She had been telling
>>> Jordan,
>>>>>> 'Your
>>>>>> parents are the ones who want Braille,'"



>>>>>> Jordan's print reading was still faster than Braille.? Braille 
was
>>>>>> harder
>>>>>> for him, and Jordan didn't understand that that was because he
>>> didn't
>>>>>> use
>>>>>> it.



>>>>>> With his face down on the page, Jordan could read thirty-five 
words
>>> a
>>>>>> minute.? His classmates read eighty-five to ninety or more.? 
Jordan
>>>>>> didn't
>>>>>> think of reading as a physical struggle, but he didn't like to 
read.
>>>>>> That
>>>>>> troubled Carrie.? Her family loved reading.? Jordan was never a 
kid
>>> to
>>>>>> talk
>>>>>> back, argue or have tantrums, but he never read for fun, not 
even
>>>>>> comics.



>>>>>> Ironically, the school obtained Braille texts for Jordan in 
fifth
>>> grade,
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> the teacher didn't use textbooks, preferring work sheets.  They
>>> didn't
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> work sheets in Braille, so Jordan still wasn't reading Braille
>>> during
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> day except for his weekly spelling list.  If the class was 
reading a
>>>>>> novel,
>>>>>> it wasn't until they were on the last chapter that Jordan 
received
>>> the
>>>>>> Braille version.



>>>>>> By that time, Carrie was panicking and convinced that Jordan 
needed
>>>>>> daylong
>>>>>> Braille instruction, and asked for all Braille for sixth grade.? 
The
>>> TBS
>>>>>> said that would ruin him and that he would get all d's and 
wouldn't
>>> be
>>>>>> able
>>>>>> to keep up.



>>>>>> She was told, "You're dooming him.? You're going to traumatize 
him
>>> by
>>>>>> going
>>>>>> to all Braille and failure will be the result."



>>>>>> Gym class was still a disaster.? Rather than using audible game
>>> balls,
>>>>>> which
>>>>>> emit a continuous sound enabling blind kids to catch or hit 
them,
>>> the
>>>>>> class
>>>>>> was forced to stop the game to give Jordan the ball.  He was 
still
>>>>>> sitting
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> the corner most of the time.



>>>>>> In sixth grade, the TBS wanted to pull Jordan from reading class 
for
>>>>>> Braille
>>>>>> instruction, to learn to use jaws (a screen reader program that
>>> works
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> Windows) and the Nemeth Braille Code for mathematics and science
>>>>>> notation.
>>>>>> Carrie didn't want him to miss reading because he would miss out 
on
>>>>>> class
>>>>>> discussions on novels.? She allowed the TBS to pull him from gym
>>> class,
>>>>>> reasoning that it was better for Jordan to miss gym than to miss
>>> reading
>>>>>> class.? She enrolled him in the YMCA swim teem, which was four
>>> nights a
>>>>>> week
>>>>>> plus Saturday meets, as well as bowling league and ski club.



>>>>>> "At the Y he was really participating."



>>>>>> That was the first year Jordan had Braille textbooks.???An 
amazing
>>> thing
>>>>>> happened.? At the beginning of the year, Jordan's Braille speed 
was
>>>>>> twenty
>>>>>> words a minute, and his print thirty-five.???In two months, his
>>> Braille
>>>>>> speed was up to forty-five with print still at thirty-five.  
Jordan
>>>>>> suddenly
>>>>>> began to prefer reading Braille.



>>>>>> The victory was short-lived.? Jordan's Braille reading speed
>>> plateaued
>>>>>> at
>>>>>> forty-five.  In 7th grade, Carrie asked for them to work on his
>>> fluency.
>>>>>> She
>>>>>> was told that Braille readers don't read more than sixty words a
>>> minute.
>>>>>> This is only true, Carrie realized later, when they get 
haphazard
>>>>>> instruction.? Instead of working on fluency, they were surfing 
the
>>>>>> internet
>>>>>> and using a digital Braille note taker called Braille note, both 
of
>>>>>> which
>>>>>> the teacher was teaching herself at the same time.



>>>>>> Also, Jordan was reading Braille with only one hand and he was a
>>>>>> terrible
>>>>>> "scrubber" going back and forth over words he had just read 
before
>>>>>> proceeding to the next word.? Carrie wasn't sure if this was due 
to
>>> poor
>>>>>> instruction or a reading problem.? She begged for a reading
>>> specialist,
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> was told that Jordan didn't need one.




>>>>>> Most of Jordan's reading was done on the Braille note, a digital
>>> device
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> an eighteen cell "refreshable Braille" pad.? It's the Braille
>>> equivalent
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> reading one line at a time; each cell is one letter or symbol.  
This
>>>>>> meant
>>>>>> he
>>>>>> wasn't reading long sentences.? Even with that, Jordan had no
>>> leisure
>>>>>> reading time because he needed more time for school work.? Even 
with
>>> a
>>>>>> sighted reader, there was little time for leisure reading.



>>>>>> Again she was faced with a dilemma.? Do you drop expectations 
for
>>>>>> homework
>>>>>> to give him leisure reading? They cut Jordan's homework, so he
>>> didn't
>>>>>> get
>>>>>> the curriculum he was capable of, but had some time for leisure
>>> reading.
>>>>>> Carrie was still worried about the quality of his Braille
>>> instruction.
>>>>>> He
>>>>>> worked with the TBS one hour every other day, but the TBS 
focused
>>> mainly
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> the computer.



>>>>>> The Hard Lessons of Middle School



>>>>>> In the summer before Jordan entered seventh grade, Carrie took a 
job
>>> at
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> NFB training center, Blind Inc., in Minneapolis, and enrolled 
Jordan
>>> in
>>>>>> Buddy camp.

>>>>>> http://www.blindinc.org/



>>>>>> She learned about non-visual techniques for doing all sorts of
>>> everyday
>>>>>> activities.???She talked to Jordan's seventh grade teachers 
about
>>>>>> non-visual
>>>>>> techniques for science, suggesting that the teachers speak with 
the
>>>>>> people
>>>>>> at Blind Inc.???Her suggestions were rebuffed.



>>>>>> That year, he would have Home Economics and Industrial Arts.? 
Sewing
>>> was
>>>>>> first.? Their solution was for Jordan to get fabric and thread 
in
>>> highly
>>>>>> contrasting colors.  Carrie, however, knew blind sewers didn't 
use
>>> that.
>>>>>> The
>>>>>> TBS finally agreed to talk to Blind Inc and then said the school
>>> would
>>>>>> buy
>>>>>> the adapted sewing equipment, which included a sturdy needle
>>> threader
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> magnetic strip for keeping seams straight while using a sewing
>>> machine.


>>>>>> Though they hadn't addressed adaptations for Industrial Arts, 
Carrie
>>> was
>>>>>> confident that they were finally on the same page.? She listened
>>> with
>>>>>> delight to Jordan's stories about how well he was doing with his
>>> sewing
>>>>>> project, a pair of shorts.? Jordan received an A.? His Mom was
>>>>>> impressed.



>>>>>> "I got a D," she remembers.



>>>>>> When Jordan brought the shorts home, however, the truth of what 
had
>>>>>> really
>>>>>> been going on came out.? Upon inspection, Carrie noticed seam 
marker
>>>>>> lines
>>>>>> and realized they had made him do the project visually.  Jordan 
never
>>>>>> received the magnetic guide that the school promised they would 
buy
>>> or
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> sturdy needle threader.? He began to cry and explained that they 
had
>>>>>> tried
>>>>>> using duct tape, but he couldn't feel it.? So, the teacher had 
drawn
>>>>>> lines
>>>>>> with a magic marker.? In order to see it, Jordan had to tilt his
>>> head
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> press his forehead against the sewing machine.? He had threaded 
a
>>> needle
>>>>>> one
>>>>>> time using the commercially available foil needle threader, but 
it
>>> took
>>>>>> so
>>>>>> long that the teacher ended up doing it.



>>>>>> "I was in complete shock because he had been saying that it was
>>> going
>>>>>> great," she recalls.



>>>>>> Carrie was too angry with the TBS to call.? But, things were 
getting
>>>>>> more
>>>>>> dangerous.???No accommodations had yet been made for Jordan's
>>> upcoming
>>>>>> Industrial Arts class, and he would be expected to use power 
tools
>>>>>> including
>>>>>> a ban saw and radial arm saw.



>>>>>> Then, there was the snow tubing trip.? Despite medical evidence 
to
>>> the
>>>>>> contrary, the TBS had convinced the classroom teacher that 
Jordan
>>> wasn't
>>>>>> really blind, so it hadn't even entered their minds that they 
had a
>>>>>> blind
>>>>>> student.  In addition, Jordan's OM teacher had been encouraging 
him
>>> to
>>>>>> trust
>>>>>> his vision.  He came home with two black eyes.



>>>>>> Carrie asked Jordan what he thought his vision was good enough 
for,
>>> and
>>>>>> he
>>>>>> said crossing the street.? They soon had an experience that 
showed
>>>>>> Carrie
>>>>>> that, even though he didn't realize it, Jordan was relying on 
his
>>>>>> hearing
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> cross streets not his vision.? They were returning from the zoo 
and
>>>>>> crossing
>>>>>> at a congested corner.? Carrie thought it was safe and started
>>> crossing
>>>>>> between two parked cars.? Jordan yelled to stop.? She realized 
that
>>> he
>>>>>> had
>>>>>> been crossing by sound and did some experiments to prove it to 
him.



>>>>>> When Carrie called the Industrial Arts teacher, he was actually 
glad
>>> to
>>>>>> hear
>>>>>> from her.? He was concerned about how Jordan would handle 
dangerous
>>>>>> equipment.? He said that all the TBS had said was to get the 
course
>>> work
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> her so she could Braille it.? Carrie invited him to visit Blind
>>> Inc.? He
>>>>>> spent hours with???their wood working teacher and got excited 
about
>>> the
>>>>>> possibilities.



>>>>>> NFB training centers use "sleep shades" so that students are 
able to
>>>>>> resist
>>>>>> using their faulty vision and develop reliable non-visual 
skills.?
>>> The
>>>>>> Blind
>>>>>> Inc.  instructor suggested painting the shop glasses black so 
Jordan
>>>>>> wouldn't
>>>>>> be tempted to lean into the machines to see.? But when the IA
>>> teacher in
>>>>>> his
>>>>>> enthusiasm mentioned it to the TBS, she called Carrie, saying 
that
>>> using
>>>>>> sleep shades would endanger the other students.? Although she 
had no
>>>>>> personal industrial arts skills, the TBS wanted to assess 
Jordan's
>>>>>> vision
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> each piece of equipment.



>>>>>> "Jordan likes to use his vision," she told Carrie, who finally
>>>>>> comprehended
>>>>>> the depth of sighted bias that this whole team had had.? Every
>>> decision
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> based on it.? It was so ingrained in their thinking that they 
were
>>> more
>>>>>> comfortable allowing a legally blind kid to try to see what he 
was
>>> doing
>>>>>> with a power saw than to permit him to use techniques that are
>>> designed
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> allow a person to safely use power tools without sight.? They 
even
>>>>>> believed
>>>>>> that the other students in the class would be safer.



>>>>>> The TBS insisted that using sleep shades was too dangerous and 
was
>>> an
>>>>>> insurance issue.???Carrie countered by pointing out the danger 
that
>>> the
>>>>>> district had put Jordan in with the snow tubing trip and his 
sewing
>>>>>> experience.? She told them she would pull him from class if they
>>> didn't
>>>>>> go
>>>>>> along with the non-visual techniques.



>>>>>> They realized that Carrie had grounds for a law suit???and had 
many
>>>>>> meetings.? Jordan is half African American so they through a
>>> diversity
>>>>>> specialist onto the team.? They agreed to conduct an 
experiment.?
>>> The
>>>>>> team
>>>>>> would tour Blind Inc.  as well as another training facility that
>>> didn't
>>>>>> insist upon using sleep shades.



>>>>>> This took weeks and class was going on, so they agreed that 
Jordan
>>> would
>>>>>> participate except for using power tools.? The Blind Inc.
>>> woodworking
>>>>>> instructor volunteered to do the project with Jordan.



>>>>>> At the end of seventh grade, the team agreed that Blind Inc.  
had the
>>>>>> superior and safer technique using sleep shades and Jordan would 
use
>>>>>> them
>>>>>> at
>>>>>> the higher level IA course the following year.



>>>>>> Finally, Some Competent Braille Instruction



>>>>>> Between seventh and eighth grade, Jordan attended "Circle of 
Life,"
>>> a
>>>>>> science camp held at the Jernigan Institute at the NFB's 
national
>>>>>> headquarters in Baltimore.  The NFB of Minnesota was having its
>>>>>> convention
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> the fall, and they asked him to speak about it.? Jordan wrote a
>>> speech
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> read it at the convention.



>>>>>> "It was painfully slow," Carrie remembers, "Everyone was shocked 
at
>>> his
>>>>>> poor
>>>>>> reading skill."



>>>>>> She had been asking for help from others but they didn't know 
how
>>> bad it
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> until then.? Carrie brainstormed with people in the NFB.? She
>>> learned
>>>>>> about
>>>>>> the two-handed method of reading Braille, in which the left hand
>>> reads
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> first half of the line and then jumps to the next line while the
>>> right
>>>>>> hand
>>>>>> finishes.? Carrie realized that Jordan had never known what 
fluency
>>> felt
>>>>>> like.  She remembered that her older kids had followed along 
reading
>>>>>> print
>>>>>> while listening to tape and tried that with Jordan and Braille.



>>>>>> Jordan was getting into advanced classes but his mother believed 
he
>>>>>> needed
>>>>>> intense Braille over the summer between 8th and 9th grade.



>>>>>> "He doesn't need it," the TBS told Carrie, "He's getting 
straight
>>> A's."


>>>>>> Carrie pointed out that it was taking Jordan 4 hours to do what
>>> others
>>>>>> do
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> an hour.



>>>>>> "Things got nasty," she recalls, "The Director of Special Ed 
said my
>>>>>> concerns were 'insulting to the staff.'"



>>>>>> She started writing everyone including the school board and
>>>>>> superintendent.
>>>>>> Only one board member called acknowledging that she had been 
treated
>>>>>> horribly, but insisted that they couldn't provide intense 
Braille
>>>>>> training.
>>>>>> Minnesota State Services for the Blind, however, sent Jordan to 
the
>>>>>> adult
>>>>>> training program at Blind Inc.



>>>>>> When he started, Jordan's Braille speed was forty-five to fifty
>>> words a
>>>>>> minute.? For the next six weeks, the staff taught him the 
two-handed
>>>>>> technique and told him he could read more than 60 words a 
minute.
>>> Jordan
>>>>>> was motivated.? He was doing two hours of leisure reading daily; 
his
>>>>>> speed
>>>>>> was up to seventy-five.



>>>>>> For ninth grade, Carrie told the new TBS that they only wanted
>>> materials
>>>>>> from the school; any instruction would be at Blind Inc.? Between
>>> ninth
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> tenth grade, Jordan went to the Louisiana Center for the Blind,
>>> another
>>>>>> NFB
>>>>>> facility:

>>>>>> http://www.lcb-ruston.com/



>>>>>> "He really needed to get away from his parents and gain more
>>>>>> independence,"
>>>>>> she explains.



>>>>>> Jordan started reading everywhere.  In tenth grade, his speed 
was in
>>> the
>>>>>> eighties for leisure reading.  For his honors courses it was in 
the
>>>>>> sixties.



>>>>>> Carrie says that Jordan's high school principal and teachers 
have
>>> been
>>>>>> wonderful.???They have high expectations, and the new Special Ed
>>>>>> Director
>>>>>> understands where they've come from.? Carrie wanted a 
cheerleader
>>> and
>>>>>> coach,
>>>>>> someone to motivate Jordan and encourage him and work on
>>> fundamentals.
>>>>>> Every year since second grade, she had been asking for a reading
>>>>>> specialist.
>>>>>> She asked again in eleventh grade, and the Special Ed Director
>>> agreed.


>>>>>> Carrie requested that the reading specialist sit with her back 
to
>>> Jordan
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> listen to him read, not knowing if he was reading print or 
Braille.?
>>> The
>>>>>> reading specialist determined that Jordan's print reading was 
full
>>> of
>>>>>> errors
>>>>>> and hesitancy and his Braille was much better with no deficit.? 
She
>>> said
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> was about practice and encouragement.? She gave them ideas she 
used
>>> for
>>>>>> print readers.



>>>>>> "By that time," Carrie says with a laugh, "Nobody wanted to work
>>> with
>>>>>> me,
>>>>>> though they all loved Jordan."



>>>>>> But, the new Braille teacher did want to work with Carrie.? 
Carrie
>>>>>> didn't
>>>>>> know why she should trust this new teacher.  The new teacher 
agreed
>>> to
>>>>>> tell
>>>>>> Carrie exactly what they would be working on.



>>>>>> "She's been teaching him three times a week for two years.? If 
books
>>>>>> came
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> plastic, he'd be reading in the shower!"



>>>>>> Now, as a senior, Jordan reads Braille at More than one hundred
>>> words a
>>>>>> minute.  For leisure reading, he's up to 125.



>>>>>> Jordan will attend the University of Minnesota, Twin Cities 
campus
>>> next
>>>>>> fall.? He is interested in constitution law, human rights and
>>> political
>>>>>> science.? He says that, if he makes it to the Supreme Court, 
he's
>>> going
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> re institute wigs.



>>>>>> "He'll be OK," his mother says with tears of relief in her 
voice,
>>> "125
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> OK.? He can still increase it and he can survive in college and 
he
>>>>>> enjoys
>>>>>> reading and chooses to do it.? If he had gotten Braille all 
along,
>>> maybe
>>>>>> he'd be at 200 words a minute.? Every time he reads, I thank god 
I
>>> hung
>>>>>> onto
>>>>>> that.? His print reading speed never improved.? He wouldn't have
>>> made it
>>>>>> without Braille."


>>>>>> Read Donna's articles on
>>>>>> Suite 101:

>>>>>> http://suite101.com/donna-w-hill

>>>>>> Connect with Donna on
>>>>>> Twitter:
>>>>>> www.twitter.com/dewhill
>>>>>> LinkedIn:
>>>>>> www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
>>>>>> FaceBook:
>>>>>> www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill

>>>>>> Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at:
>>>>>> cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill

>>>>>> Apple I-Tunes

>>> 
phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=2
5924437
>>> 4

>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info
>>> for
>>>>>> stylist:

>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/justin.willi
ams2%40
>>> gmai
>>>>>> l.com


>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info
>>> for
>>>>>> stylist:

>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40z
oominte
>>> rnet
>>>>> .net


>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>>>> stylist:

>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/penatwork%40
epix.ne
>>> t

>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>>>> stylist:

>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/justin.willi
ams2%40
>>> gmai
>>>>> l.com


>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>>>> stylist:

>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/poetlori8%40
msn.com

>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>>>> stylist:

>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/justin.willi
ams2%40
>>> gmai
>>>>> l.com


>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>>>> stylist:

>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40z
oominte
>>> rnet.net


>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>>> stylist:

>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%
40earth
>>> link.net
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>>> stylist:

>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40z
oominte
>>> rnet.net


>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Writers Division web site
>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>> stylist mailing list
>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>> stylist:
>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%
40earth
>>> link.net




>>> ------------------------------

>>> Message: 18
>>> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 22:08:45 -0500
>>> From: "Lynda Lambert"<llambert at zoominternet.net
>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Definition of blindness
>>> Message-ID:<351CA44D911545BC850881C08F6CA559 at Lambert
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>> ??? reply-type=response

>>> The person who asks this has no idea what that term even means, 
I would
>>> bet.
>>> It is just asked for something to say.

>>> Lynda





>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Anita Ogletree"<yrstrli at gmail.com
>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 8:05 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Definition of blindness


>>>> Actually, it doesn't.? The only time I ever think but is when 
someone
>>> asks
>>>> am I legally blind.
>>>> Anita


>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Lynda Lambert"<llambert at zoominternet.net
>>>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Date sent: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 10:25:58 -0500
>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Definition of blindness
>>>>> This is my thought, too!
>>>>> Is there some kind of litnus test we must take to be part of the
>>>> group?
>>>>> And, must the group itself be broken down into little squares on
>>>> a grid?
>>>>> Creating various definitions for each of us only serves to
>>>> fratgment us more
>>>>> than we already might be.
>>>>> We have a common bond in that we all have situations to deal 
with
>>>> due to
>>>>> various eye conditions.? I think we can just be who we are
>>>> without labels,
>>>>> don't you?
>>>>> Lynda





>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Bridgit Pollpeter"<bpollpeter at hotmail.com
>>>>> To:<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 11:53 PM
>>>>> Subject: [stylist] Definition of blindness

>>>>>> Anita,
>>>>>> Does it matter?
>>>>>> Bridgit
>>>>>> Message: 8
>>>>>> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 20:21:43 -0500
>>>>>> From: Anita Ogletree<yrstrli at gmail.com
>>>>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Sending this again: Article
>>>>>> showingwhatparentsofblind kids are facing
>>>>>> Message-ID:<5121823f.467b3a0a.1275.ffffa94c at mx.google.com
>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
>>>>>> There are three separate categories for which individuls without
>>>>>> sight are identified: totally blind, legally blind and visually
>>>>>> impaired.? Totally blind--if I understand correctly--are those
>>>>>> who have no light perception.
>>>>>> Visually impaired are those persons who are able to use
>>>>>> magnifying devices to enlarge printed documents, etc.? What
>>>>>> exactly does the term "legally blind" mean?
>>>>>> I was told all of my life that I am totally blind but I have
>>>>>> light perception.? I see objects but no shapes.? Every now and
>>>>>> then I can guess a particular color depending on how the
>>>> lighting
>>>>>> in a room is.? I am able to tell when people are walking by me
>>>>>> when they are only a couple feet in front of me and I can do
>>>> that
>>>>>> if I am sitting in a parked car or some other place.? I can see
>>>>>> the shadows of trees, poles, buildings and so on when I look out
>>>>>> of the window of a car.
>>>>>> My question is this: what category would I fit into? My optic
>>>>>> nerve is damaged so the medical terminology is optic atrophyddI
>>>>>> ask this because the so-called "experts" have not been able to
>>>>>> give me an answer.


>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>> info for
>>>>>> stylist:

>>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40z
>>>> oominternet.net




>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info
>>>> for stylist:
>>>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/yrstrli%40gm
>>>> ail.com

>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>>> stylist:

>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40z
oominte
>>> rnet.net




>>> ------------------------------

>>> Message: 19
>>> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 22:11:12 -0500
>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett"<bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in 
blindness
>>> ??? field
>>> Message-ID:<52E13A51BB5A4FEABCB1585FAFD8439D at OwnerPC
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>> ??? reply-type=response

>>> Lynda,
>>> Perhaps some of us should write articles about working with 
blind
>>> professionals.  Its nice to have role models.
>>> I agree with Robert.  They? don't want to hire blind 
professionals
>>> because of
>>> low expectations and because of the driving factor.
>>> If you visit people's homes you have to have a driver's license 
to drive
>>> or
>>> get them to hire a driver.
>>> I bet more sighted people work in rehab agencies.
>>> Its only at nfb centers that hiring blind people is prefered.
>>> Ashley
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Lynda Lambert
>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 10:16 AM
>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in 
blindness
>>> field

>>> This is really interesting to have this discussion.
>>> My experiences are so limited in this field.

>>> When I was at the rehab.  center, the former director asked our 
group one
>>> day
>>> "How many of you are members of NFB?"? I had never heard of NFB 
so had
>>> no
>>> clue what he wanted to know.? No one in the group raised their 
hand.  He
>>> said, "Good!? I hat the NFB." Then he went on to talk about the
>>> organization.

>>> My local blind assoc.  seems to be quite proud to announce to us 
that
>>> "everyone working for them must have a driver's license." With a 
smile,
>>> for
>>> sure.
>>> So what you are saying here makes sense from just my little 
corner of
>>> the
>>> world view here.  I only had ONE rehab teacher who is blind, 
during my 15
>>> weeks there.
>>> I would have LOVED to have a blind mobility teacher -

>>> Lynda





>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Robert Leslie Newman"<newmanrl at cox.net
>>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 9:14 AM
>>> Subject: [stylist] more on this subject of Working in blindness 
field


>>>> Guys
>>>> Back when I started working for the commission for the Blind 
here in
>>>> Nebraska, back in the seventies, our federation had the mindset 
(this
>>> is a
>>>> generalization) that if you as a blind person had one of those 
jobs,
>>> then
>>>> you were suspect, as in you had gone over to the other side, 
that of
>>> the
>>>> enemy! (This was the state of relations between the progressive 
blind
>>> and
>>>> the rehab services.) Boy, back then, in a NFB chapter around 
here, you
>>>> mostly weren't encouraged to try and become an officer, because 
it was
>>>> feared that you would be a spy for the rehab side, and would be
>>> pushing
>>>> their (the bad guys) agenda.  But --- this all changed.  Here in
>>> Nebraska
>>>> and
>>>> in New Mexico and maybe in some other states, the NFB got the 
bad
>>> agency
>>>> head folks fired and had a hand in who and what changes had to 
occur
>>> ---?
>>>> and
>>>> so the NFB philosophy got the upper hand.  And then, it became
>>> respectful
>>>> for
>>>> NFB members to be part of the rehab scene.  (Here in the Omaha 
chapter
>>> we
>>>> still have one older member, like in the 80's who doesn't like 
seeing
>>> a
>>>> rehab professional being in a leadership position.)

>>>> Think of it, one of the larger and more active NFB Division's is 
the
>>>> Rehabilitation Professionals.

>>>> #2 Taking a serious look at job opportunities for the blind in 
blind
>>>> related
>>>> professions --- count up the number of rehab agencies and/or 
other
>>>> services
>>>> around the country and add up how many blind folks are working 
within
>>> them
>>>> and I bet that number is not as great as you think!!! Consider, 
that
>>> in
>>>> general, the not so good agencies who have low expectations are 
the
>>> ones
>>>> that will more than likely hire only a few token blind workers.  
And
>>> the
>>>> better rehab services, which are the minority in this nationwide 
group
>>>> that
>>>> we are looking at --- sure, they may have more blind guys on 
staff.
>>>> (Nebraska at present has 1 blind related rehab service only.  
They have
>>> a
>>>> total staff at the commission that numbers around 55 and 17 are 
blind.
>>> All
>>>> other employed blind people work in a variety of other jobs; 
Nebraska
>>> is
>>>> one
>>>> of the better states for employment of the blind and there are a 
bunch
>>> of
>>>> folks that are doing all kinds of jobs.) So watch that thought 
of
>>> yours,
>>>> that there are a big number of blind folks working in blind 
related
>>>> jobs ---
>>>> for either reason of- A.  That is where they are accepted.  Or 
B.  That
>>> it is
>>>> the job that the blind think of first as to what they can do.

>>>> (Just my rambling for this morning.)

>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Julie
>>> J.
>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 7:08 AM
>>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Working in blindness field

>>>> Bridget,

>>>> Could it be that more of the state board members and generally 
more
>>> really
>>>> active members of the NFB are working in the blindness field 
because
>>>> blindness is their passion?It makes sense to me that if 
promoting
>>>> opportunities for blind people was your life's mission that 
you'd work
>>> in
>>>> that field and be more active within an organization that 
supported
>>> you.  I
>>>> do think all blind people have an interest in achieving true 
equality
>>> for
>>>> blind people.  However I think for some it is their major life's 
work,
>>>> while
>>>> for others of us it is something we do when we can around our 
other
>>> main
>>>> pursuits.  So it makes sense to me that there would be a large 
number
>>> of
>>>> people within the NFB that do or want to work in the blindness 
field.

>>>> I've been blind for around 20 years now.? While I do know quite 
a few
>>>> blind
>>>> people who work in the blindness field, I'd say I know a larger 
number
>>> who
>>>> don't.? Perhaps that's because I have never been very involved 
in
>>>> leadership
>>>> within the NFB.? It does seem that those in leadership positions 
do
>>> work
>>>> in
>>>> the blindness field much more frequently.? Again that makes 
sense to
>>> me
>>>> due
>>>> to their strong interest and commitment to the cause.

>>>> Julie



>>>> On 2/17/2013 11:13 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote:
>>>>> Ashley,

>>>>> Without actual stats, we can't really debate this, but that 
being
>>> said,
>>>>> I beg to differ, at least to a degree.

>>>>> I don't think anyone here is trying to make generalizations 
seeing as
>>> we
>>>>> all are blind, but we are all speaking from our experiences and
>>> personal
>>>>> observations.

>>>>> In the ten years I've been blind, which isn't long compared to 
some,
>>>>> I've met more blind people working in a blindness-related field 
or
>>>>> hoping to be employed in a blindness related field.  For every 
lawyer,
>>>>> teacher and computer programmer I've met, I've met ten who 
worked in
>>> a
>>>>> job relating to blindness.

>>>>> There's nothing wrong with this, and most of us would agree that
>>> blind
>>>>> people need to be working in these fields, but I also think it 
can
>>>>> become a safety net for some; not all, but many.

>>>>> I've been to NFB conventions, and yes, there are people employed 
in
>>>>> various fields, and many scholarship winners plan to, or are,
>>> pursuing a
>>>>> myriad of career paths, but again, for every one of these people 
I've
>>>>> met, I've met a dozen working in the blindness field.  Or many 
of
>>> these
>>>>> people end up in a blindness field despite their choice of 
degree.

>>>>> And having heard several scholarship winners speak at 
conventions, a
>>>>> good number of them hope to work in some way in a blindness 
field or
>>>>> teaching the blind.  Again, nothing wrong with this, and we do 
need
>>> blind
>>>>> people doing this, but, for me, it shows how many blind people 
go
>>> into a
>>>>> blindness related field.

>>>>> And in our affiliate, most of the leadership either works in the
>>>>> blindness field or hopes too.  Of our eleven state board 
members, only
>>>>> two are employed outside of a blindness field, and one is 
working
>>>>> towards a degree so they can work in a blindness job.

>>>>> More and more blind people are seeking opportunities outside of 
a
>>>>> blindness related career, but many are still drawn to the field 
for
>>>>> whatever reason.  Again, we need strong, competent blind people 
in
>>> this
>>>>> field, but we also need to consider what we truly want as a 
person
>>> and
>>>>> not a blind person.

>>>>> And a side note, I don't think Lynda meant anything negative by 
her
>>>>> comments nor was she implying all blind people work in a 
blindness
>>>>> related field.  She was merely detailing her experience and 
speaking
>>> to
>>>>> that experience alone.

>>>>> Bridgit

>>>>> Message: 11
>>>>> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 22:28:29 -0500
>>>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett"<bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>>>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List"<stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Sending this again: Article
>>>>> showingwhatparentsofblindkids are facing
>>>>> Message-ID:<D073072BEB3F4E1F938EB6B7A6FF190A at OwnerPC
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>>>> reply-type=response

>>>>> Lynda,
>>>>> I beg to differ.  Have you been to a nfb convention?
>>>>> There are people employed in all walks of life and most 
scholarship
>>>>> winners
>>>>> have a career aspiration in a non blindness field; they include
>>> future
>>>>> teachers, therapists, researchers,? counselors, and doctors.
>>>>> Most blind people I know work either in the IT field as computer
>>>>> programmers
>>>>> or in the government, far from the blindness
>>>>> fields! Read the braille monitor and you will see the wide 
variety of
>>>>> fields
>>>>> too!


>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>>> stylist:
>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/julielj%40ne
b.rr.co
>>> m

>>>>> -----
>>>>> No virus found in this message.
>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>> Version: 2012.0.2238 / Virus Database: 2639/5610 - Release Date:
>>> 02/17/13


>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>>> stylist:

>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/newmanrl%40c
ox.net

>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>>> stylist:

>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40z
oominte
>>> rnet.net


>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Writers Division web site
>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>> stylist mailing list
>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>> stylist:
>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%
40earth
>>> link.net




>>> ------------------------------

>>> Subject: Digest Footer

>>> _______________________________________________
>>> stylist mailing list
>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org


>>> ------------------------------

>>> End of stylist Digest, Vol 106, Issue 31
>>> ****************************************


>>> ------------------------------

>>> Subject: Digest Footer

>>> _______________________________________________
>>> stylist mailing list
>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org


>>> ------------------------------

>>> End of stylist Digest, Vol 106, Issue 32
>>> ****************************************


>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Writers Division web site
>>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>> stylist mailing list
>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>> stylist:
>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/julielj%40ne
b.rr.com


>>> -----
>>> No virus found in this message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 2012.0.2238 / Virus Database: 2639/5616 - Release Date: 
02/19/13




>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site
>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>> stylist mailing list
>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>> stylist:
>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40z
oominternet.net




>_______________________________________________
>Writers Division web site
>http://www.writers-division.net/
>stylist mailing list
>stylist at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for stylist:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/yrstrli%40gm
ail.com