[stylist] Toot Toot- CLEAR DIRECTIONS for YOU

Tue Jul 2 03:32:38 UTC 2013

I did have two sighted people look at it, and they didn't see, quite
literally, what was stated in the directions. Later, one of them tried
again and was able to do it. I don't need someone who help with this, I
was more interested in figuring out the differences, which we did, that
doing it with a screenreader is different than doing it with sight.

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley
Bramlett
Sent: Monday, July 01, 2013 6:34 PM
To: Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [stylist] Toot Toot- CLEAR DIRECTIONS for YOU

Bridgit,
I think we made the point that screen readers act differently. I suggest
you view the info with someone who can see when possible. It would be
beneficial to see the authors and table of contents. Man, I'm really
curious now what is there since none of us can access it 
with screen readers!

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Bridgit Pollpeter
Sent: Monday, July 01, 2013 2:48 PM
To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [stylist] Toot Toot- CLEAR DIRECTIONS for YOU

Not with JAWS or Window Eyes. When you hit the insert key and F7, it
pulls up a link list, which has any possible link on the page. If the
links you describe aren't on it, which they aren't, it most likely means
a pop-up menu opens that's inaccessible with most screenreaders.
Possibly, if you keep refreshing the screen, it may show up, but so far
this doesn't seem to be the case.

Also, doing a page search with the control key and the F key doesn't
show anything, and if the links, or whatever they are, are accessible,
control F would find it on the page.

You are doing this visually; with magnification, but visually. What'
possible with sight is clearly not with a screenreader in this
situation. It's like reading a document with a magnifier than not
understanding why a Braille reader can't see a picture or something on
the page. This isn't always the case, but there are times, case in
point, when a screenreader isn't able, for whatever reason, to
manipulate something online that can be done visually.

I've gone to Audible and Barnes and Noble, and the anthology isn't
available on either, but I am able to search books and learn all the
info about them on these sites. Amazon isn't the only website to find
books on, and these sites seem to be better for screenreaders in terms
of finding about book synopsis, reviews, publishers, etc.

I also tried a Google search, and oddly enough, it didn't really find
anything on the anthology. It actually took quite a few pages before I
even saw anything about the group itself.

One thing I haven't tried yet is Amazon' accessible version, which is a
dumbed-down version with little to no pictures and graphics. It works
well with screenreaders, but it doesn't have as nice navigation, and
often the descriptions are limited. I will try it later though and see
what happens.

Bridgit

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda
Lambert
Sent: Monday, July 01, 2013 11:53 AM
To: Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [stylist] Toot Toot- CLEAR DIRECTIONS for YOU

You can click on several places, besides the graphic of the book. There
are multiple places that can be clicked to go to different links.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" <bpollpeter at hotmail.com>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, July 01, 2013 12:23 PM
Subject: Re: [stylist] Toot Toot- CLEAR DIRECTIONS for YOU

> Didn't think of trying Firefox. May see if that makes a difference 
> with this situation. What the biggest problem here is that it involves

> clicking on a graphic of the book. There's no corresponding link or 
> graphic link, and JAWS isn't built to recognize graphics and pictures 
> unless something specific is built into the software. I believe 
> current versions of JAWS have more features to support website 
> navigation, but in general, items that are visual only and not 
> created, either on the website or with JAWS, it will not recognize 
> such material.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Donna 
> Hill
> Sent: Monday, July 01, 2013 10:25 AM
> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Toot Toot- CLEAR DIRECTIONS for YOU
>
>
> Lynda,
> It's no mystery that certain screen readers work better on certain 
> things than others. They're all made for and with different software. 
> Apple's Voice Over is an integral part of Apple's operating system and

> available with all (I think) Apple products. Jaws, Window Eyes, NVDA, 
> and others are third-party programs that do the best they can to catch

> up with Windows -- not an enviable position in my view.
>
> The mystery to me is when the same screen reader works differently for

> different people on essentially the same systems. One of my current 
> favorite bewilderments has to do with IE10 and Firefox and Jaws. I 
> have both IE & Firefox as browsers, because one is often better than 
> the other for specific sites and functions. I put an audio clip of our

> frogs in my last blog post. It's a Sound Cloud player. On Firefox, the

> play button is there and accessible; on IE, it's not there at all. 
> Donna
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda 
> Lambert
> Sent: Monday, July 01, 2013 7:07 AM
> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Toot Toot- CLEAR DIRECTIONS for YOU
>
> but yet, it works just fine with a MAC - so that is what is a mystery 
> to me. Seems like it would be a PC problem - but I know next to 
> nothing about stuff like this so cannot help at all. Lynda
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" <bpollpeter at hotmail.com>
> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 9:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Toot Toot- CLEAR DIRECTIONS for YOU
>
>
>> You can do this only if a graphic link exist. It would appear there's

>> no link or graphic link, therefore JAWS won't work.
>>
>> If anyone else has tried doing this step Lynda posted with JAWS and 
>> knows something I'm not aware of, please enlighten us.
>>
>> Bridgit
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley

>> Bramlett
>> Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 7:55 PM
>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Toot Toot- CLEAR DIRECTIONS for YOU
>>
>>
>> Hello,
>> FYI, for unlabeled graphic links, you can custom label it. Press 
>> insertcontrol tab to do this. But if the link doesn't appear with 
>> jaws, noting you can do.
>>
>> Ashley
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter
>> Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 8:45 PM
>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Toot Toot- CLEAR DIRECTIONS for YOU
>>
>> It's obviously something JAWS isn't programmed to recognize. Since 
>> you need to click on the book cover, it's a picture, which JAWS 
>> doesn't recognize, and there's no corresponding link or graphic link 
>> that JAWS
>
>> will recognize. Clearly the Apple voice-over has been programmed to 
>> recognize some kind of coding that JAWS doesn't. I'm not familiar 
>> with
>
>> how the Apple voice-over works, but I think it may be more flexible, 
>> to an extent, than JAWS. One of our techy people may be able to 
>> better
>
>> answer this.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
>> Mary-Jo Lord
>> Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 5:44 PM
>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Toot Toot- CLEAR DIRECTIONS for YOU
>>
>>
>> It is something that Jaws isn't seeing or finding, that the Voiceover

>> on the Mac is picking up.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda 
>> Lambert
>> Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 3:03 PM
>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Toot Toot- CLEAR DIRECTIONS for YOU
>>
>> So, I am thinking that the accessibility problem is not amazon, but 
>> JAWS that does not allow you to access it on a PC, but does on a MAC?
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Mary-Jo Lord" <mjfingerprints at comcast.net>
>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 9:37 AM
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Toot Toot- CLEAR DIRECTIONS for YOU
>>
>>
>>> Hi Linda,
>>>
>>> I was unable to find this information with Jaws either, but my 
>>> sighted
>>
>>> son was. Then just to see what happens, I used the Mac, and was able

>>> to follow your directions and find the information. I guess I'll be 
>>> doing my book browsing with Amazon on my Mac.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda

>>> Lambert
>>> Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 8:00 AM
>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Toot Toot- CLEAR DIRECTIONS for YOU
>>>
>>> ahhhhh, so that is the problem. How in the world have you ordered 
>>> books without being able to explore what is inside them? I hope JAWS

>>> is accessable on amazon, and that someone on the list can help you 
>>> with it. My directions will work for anyone using Zoom Text - sorry 
>>> I
>
>>> cannot help with JAWS
>> since
>>
>>> I
>>> only use it for reading and writing word documents and for reading 
>>> emails.
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" <bpollpeter at hotmail.com>
>>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 1:16 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Toot Toot- CLEAR DIRECTIONS for YOU
>>>
>>>
>>>> Lynda,
>>>>
>>>> As I said, I'm pretty well aquainted with searching on Amazon. Part

>>>> of the issue is that you're not using terms JAWS does. For 
>>>> instance,
>
>>>> you say, "Near the search bar, designate your search for "books" on

>>>> the list to the left of the bar." What this means is that there is 
>>>> a
>
>>>> combo box you can select the category "Books" to find the 
>>>> anthology,
>
>>>> and the edit field is where you type the name of the book. Your 
>>>> directions are based on how it's done visually and not with JAWS. 
>>>> The
>>
>>>> terminology is different with JAWS.
>>>>
>>>> Actually, you can use the H key to navigate the search, and the 
>>>> first
>>
>>>> book that pops up is the current BOE anthology. You can press enter

>>>> on this title to open up more details as well as to purchase the 
>>>> book.
>>>>
>>>> Nonetheless, it doesn't appear this accessible with JAWS. I've had 
>>>> my
>>
>>>> hubby double check too to make sure I'm not crazy. There's no link,

>>>> button, check box, combo box-- nothing stating what you provide in 
>>>> your directions. If there was in deed a link titled such, when 
>>>> pulling up links list with the insert and F7 keys, it would appear,

>>>> but it does not. Doing a control F to search for anything titled 
>>>> this
>>
>>>> doesn't bring anything up either.
>>>>
>>>> I think part of the problem is that your directions are for anyone 
>>>> doing it visually, and it would appear it's not accessible with 
>>>> JAWS
>
>>>> to access the options you list.
>>>>
>>>> I'm pretty good with using JAWS and my computer, but my hubby is 
>>>> not only extremely well-versed with the tool, he's taught JAWS and 
>>>> once had his certification in the program. So I'm confident he 
>>>> knows what
>
>>>> he's talking about. We've both spent time looking the page up and 
>>>> down with no luck. And from what he can tell visually, there 
>>>> doesn't
>
>>>> seem to be any links above the picture as you state. He's sees 
>>>> links
>
>>>> for an advanced search, new releases and New York Times bestsellers

>>>> but nothing you list.
>>>>
>>>> When using a mouse, there possibly could be inaccessible menus 
>>>> and/or
>>
>>>> dialogue boxes that open up, but JAWS finds nothing you have 
>>>> listed.
>
>>>> And like I said, when pulling up the links list after finding the 
>>>> book, there's no links you say should be there.
>>>>
>>>> If any JAWS user has better luck, please let me know.
>>>>
>>>> Bridgit
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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