[stylist] writing outside our experience

[Chris Kuell]

Excellent points, Donna. I didn't think of agriculture, but obviously that's 
an indication of sophisticated cognition, and what I'd certainly call 
consciousness.

chris k, so as not to confuse folks

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Donna Hill" <penatwork at epix.net>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2013 6:21 PM
Subject: Re: [stylist] writing outside our experience


> Chris,
> There are several things that make this an interesting challenge. First, 
> how
> are we defining consciousness? Some people, myself included, believe that
> higher animals have consciousness. If you define it broadly enough to be
> that something gives indication that its environment can have an impact on
> its life, then, we have to add in just about all animals and probably some
> plants. If we narrow the definition to an awareness of right and wrong, 
> then
> we'd have to exclude some humans.
>
> Also, if consciousness (no matter how we define it) didn't develop until
> more recently than 7,000 years ago, wouldn't that mean that there had
> already been significant advances in what we think of as civilization 
> prior
> to the development of consciousness?
> I looked up the Hebrew calendar conversion table just to get a frame of
> reference: Today, Sun, 17 March 2013 = 6th of Nisan, 5773, so his theory
> works from that perspective . Also, from an Egyptian perspective, The
> Egyptian civilization is said to have begun when King Menes founded the
> first Egyptian dynasty in 3100 BC (making it more than 5,000 years ago, 
> well
> within his 7,000 years.
>
> However, the first evidence of creation and use of pottery was found in
> Xianren Cave in Jiangxi province between 20 & 19,000 BC. The first
> archaeological evidence on domestication of pigs was in the Zhenpiyan
> culture 7600 BC (almost 10,000 years ago). Analysis from the Pengtoushan
> culture of Chinese rice residues from 7500 BC show that rice had been
> domesticated by this time. Archaeological evidence from the Cishan culture
> (6000 BC) shows domestication of dogs and chickens for the first time.
> Domestication of corn happened in Mexico  cerca 5000 BC. Only this last 
> one
> even squeaks into the 7,000 years ago framework.  I have to ask myself how
> cultivating crops, domesticating animals and figuring out how to make
> pottery could happen without consciousness.
>
> In fact, for your project, that might be a good place to start; think 
> about
> what would and would not be going through the minds of your characters as
> they developed some of these things. Should be an interesting exercise.
> Donna
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Christine
> Malec
> Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2013 2:43 PM
> To: stylist at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [stylist] writing outside our experience
>
> Bridget's remarks made me want to ask if anyone has read Julian Jaynes's
> Origins of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind. I'm 
> reading
> it because I'm writing fiction set about 7000 years ago. He believes
> consciousness is a more recent development than that, and I've been trying
> to think about how I might choose to incorporate  his ideas into my
> characters. It's a challenge.
> Cheers,
> Chris.
>
>
>
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