[stylist] Comma rules

Mon May 20 16:17:29 UTC 2013

Bridget, Thank you for taking all the time this needed. It is very
helpful. I do have a question, but first a comment. One of the
sentences in number 9 made no sense.  "The average temperatures  for
July 1998 are the
highest on record for that month.")

An average is taken from the mean which would mean that there are
temperatures higher as well as lower, so by definition, it is
impossible for the average to be the highest.        Now my
question... I have been told that things have changed in whatever
thinktank decides these things, that they now want less commas and so
the comma before 'and' is dropped. Example of what I am so poorly
trying to say: My dogs are a pitbull, a golden retriever and a
chiwoodle. Well, I hope I puncuated this post correctly. Eve

On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 8:01 AM, Donna Hill <penatwork at epix.net> wrote:
> Bridgit,
> It might be because I run Word 2010 and Outlook 2003.
> Donna
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bridgit
> Pollpeter
> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 10:30 AM
> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Comma rules
>
> This is why I can't stress enough to people that relying on Spell Check
> alone is a bad, bad idea. There are so many times I can't figure out why it
> wants to change something, and had I listened to Spell Check, I would have
> been wrong.
>
> I'm not sure why Outlook's Spell Check would differ from Word. They are part
> of the same program, so one would assume it's all the same.
> Interesting. I guess I've never paid attention to this. I will have to start
> and see if I notice this too.
>
> Bridgit
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Donna Hill
> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 7:36 PM
> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Comma rules
>
>
> Bridgit,
> Yes, and I do prefer the comma myself, but I thought it was technically
> wrong. I am not so fond of semicolons and use them only under duress.
> *grin*
>
>
> Have you ever noticed that MS Word's Spell Check seems to want them all over
> the place? I can't get a handle on what it thinks the rule is; sometimes, a
> word like "So" at the beginning of a sentence will trigger the semicolon
> prompt, and sometimes, it doesn't care. Many times, when I have a few things
> listed like this next sentence, it wants the phrases separated with
> semicolons. "He walked around the park, picked up a trash bag's worth of
> litter and left without saying a word to anyone."
>
> For some reason, I fined this happens more when I'm writing a Word document
> than when I'm using Outlook to write e-mails, though I thought it was the
> same Spell Check.
>
> I'll have to refresh my memory about the semicolon rules. Thanks for the
> links. Donna
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bridgit
> Pollpeter
> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 5:50 PM
> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Comma rules
>
> You are correct, and technically "Aren't you," is a complete sentence, but
> in context of this example, it's acting as a question attached to the first
> clause. To be perfectly honest, I don't think it's wrong to use a semicolon,
> but typically a semicolon is a clause that can stand completely on its own
> yet be combined with the previous clause. In this example, aren't you begs
> the question, aren't you what? So a comma attaches it to the first part.
> Based on the definition in number 7, the comma is acting as a pause or
> distinct shift. The "aren't you," in the example is a pause or shift as the
> speaker ask a question pertaining to being the senator's friend. I hope this
> makes sense. My post is taken from the OWL Purdue website, and personally, I
> would follow this particular example.
>
> Below are links to both the comma rules and semicolon rules:
>
> http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/607/02/http://owl.english.pur
> due.edu/owl/resource/607/02/
>
> http://owl.english.purdue.edu/engagement/index.php?category_id=2&sub_cat
> egory_id=1&article_id=44
>
> Bridgit
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Donna Hill
> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 12:05 PM
> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Comma rules
>
>
> I was thinking of it as an implied object. Aren't sentences defined as a
> subject and a verb?
> Donna
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bridgit
> Pollpeter
> Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 11:43 PM
> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Comma rules
>
> Donna,
>
> Because in order to use a semi colon, the following section has to be a
> complete sentence. So if it were to  be, "You're one of the Senatores best
> friends; are you not a good friend?" then the semi colon would be
> appropriate. If not a complete sentence, a comma is used.
>
> Bridgit
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Donna Hill
> Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 10:19 PM
> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Comma rules
>
>
> Bridgit,
> A mostly excellent summation of the rules for using commas. A few things hit
> me, including your adherence to the Oxford comma, which I didn't think had
> many American advocates. I am wondering about the following example from
> "7." You're one of the senator's close friends, aren't you?
> Why isn't this a semicolon? Donna
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bridgit
> Pollpeter
> Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 8:54 PM
> To: stylist at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [stylist] Comma rules
>
> In light of recent post, I'm pasting an extensive guide on comma rules.
>
> 1. Use commas to separate independent clauses when they are joined by any of
> these seven coordinating conjunctions:  and, but, for, or, nor, so, yet.
>
> The game was over, but the crowd refused to leave.
>
> The student explained her question, yet the instructor still didn't seem to
> understand.
>
> Yesterday was her brother's birthday, so she took him out to dinner.
>
> 2. Use commas after introductory a) clauses, b) phrases, or c) words that
> come before the main clause.
>
> a. Common starter words for introductory clauses that should be followed by
> a comma include after, although, as,  because, if, since, when, while.
>
> While I was eating, the cat scratched at the door.
>
> Because her alarm clock was broken, she was late for class.
>
> If you are ill, you ought to see a doctor.
>
> When the snow stops falling, we'll shovel the driveway.
>
> However, don't put a comma after the main clause when a dependent
> (subordinate) clause follows it (except for cases of  extreme contrast).
>
> INCORRECT: The cat scratched at the door, while I was eating.
>
> CORRECT: She was still quite upset, although she had won the Oscar.
> (This comma use is correct because it is an  example of extreme
> contrast.)
>
> b. Common introductory phrases that should be followed by a comma include
> participial and infinitive phrases, absolute  phrases, nonessential
> appositive phrases, and long prepositional phrases (over four words).
>
> Having finished the test, he left the room.
>
> To get a seat, you'd better come early.
>
> After the test but before lunch, I went jogging.
>
> The sun radiating intense heat, we sought shelter in the cafe.
>
> c. Common introductory words that should be followed by a comma include yes,
> however, well.
>
> Well, perhaps he meant no harm.
>
> Yes, the package should arrive tomorrow morning.
>
> However, you may not be satisfied with the results.
>
> 3. Use a pair of commas in the middle of a sentence to set off clauses,
> phrases, and words that are not essential to the  meaning of the sentence.
> Use one comma before to indicate the beginning of the pause and one at the
> end to indicate the  end of the pause.
>
> Here are some clues to help you decide whether the sentence element is
> essential:
>
> .If you leave out the clause, phrase, or word, does the sentence still make
> sense? .Does the clause, phrase, or word interrupt the flow of words in the
> original sentence? .If you move the element to a different position in the
> sentence, does the sentence still make sense? If you answer "yes" to one or
> more of these questions, then the element in question is nonessential and
> should be set off  with commas. Here are some example sentences with
> nonessential elements:
>
> Clause: That Tuesday, which happens to be my birthday, is the only day when
> I am available to meet.
>
> Phrase: This restaurant has an exciting atmosphere. The food, on the other
> hand, is rather bland.
>
> Word: I appreciate your hard work. In this case, however, you seem to have
> over-exerted yourself.
>
> 4. Do not use commas to set off essential elements of the sentence, such as
> clauses beginning with that (relative clauses).  That clauses after nouns
> are always essential. That clauses following a verb expressing mental action
> are always essential.
>
> That clauses after nouns:
>
> The book that I borrowed from you is excellent.
>
> The apples that fell out of the basket are bruised.
>
> That clauses following a verb expressing mental action:
>
> She believes that she will be able to earn an A.
>
> He is dreaming that he can fly.
>
> I contend that it was wrong to mislead her.
>
> They wished that warm weather would finally arrive.
>
> Examples of other essential elements (no commas):
>
> Students who cheat only harm themselves.
>
> The baby wearing a yellow jumpsuit is my niece.
>
> The candidate who had the least money lost the election.
>
> Examples of nonessential elements (set off by commas):
>
> Fred, who often cheats, is just harming himself.
>
> My niece, wearing a yellow jumpsuit, is playing in the living room.
>
> The Green party candidate, who had the least money, lost the election.
>
> Apples, which are my favorite fruit, are the main ingredient in this recipe.
>
> Professor Benson, grinning from ear to ear, announced that the exam would be
> tomorrow.
>
> Tom, the captain of the team, was injured in the game.
>
> It is up to you, Jane, to finish.
>
> She was, however, too tired to make the trip.
>
> Two hundred dollars, I think, is sufficient.
>
> 5. Use commas to separate three or more words, phrases, or clauses written
> in a series.
>
> The Constitution establishes the legislative, executive, and judicial
> branches of government.
>
> The candidate promised to lower taxes, protect the environment, reduce
> crime, and end unemployment.
>
> The prosecutor argued that the defendant, who was at the scene of the crime,
> who had a strong revenge motive, and who  had access to the murder weapon,
> was guilty of homicide.
>
> 6. Use commas to separate two or more coordinate adjectives that describe
> the same noun. Be sure never to add an  extra comma between the final
> adjective and the noun itself or to use commas with non-coordinate
> adjectives.
>
> Coordinate adjectives are adjectives with equal ("co"-ordinate) status in
> describing the noun; neither adjective is  subordinate to the other.
> You can decide if two adjectives in a row are coordinate by asking the
> following questions:
>
> .Does the sentence make sense if the adjectives are written in reverse
> order? .Does the sentence make sense if the adjectives are written with and
> between them? If you answer yes to these questions, then the adjectives are
> coordinate and should be separated by a comma. Here are some examples of
> coordinate and non-coordinate adjectives:
>
> He was a difficult, stubborn child. (coordinate)
>
> They lived in a white frame house. (non-coordinate) She often wore a gray
> wool shawl. (non-coordinate) Your cousin has an easy, happy smile.
> (coordinate) The 1) relentless, 2) powerful 3) summer sun beat down on them.
> (1-2 are coordinate; 2-3 are non-coordinate.)
>
> The 1) relentless, 2) powerful, 3) oppressive sun beat down on them.
> (Both 1-2 and 2-3 are coordinate.)
>
> 7. Use a comma near the end of a sentence to separate contrasted coordinate
> elements or to indicate a distinct pause or  shift.
>
> He was merely ignorant, not stupid.
>
> The chimpanzee seemed reflective, almost human.
>
> You're one of the senator's close friends, aren't you?
>
> The speaker seemed innocent, even gullible.
>
> 8. Use commas to set off phrases at the end of the sentence that refer to
> the beginning or middle of the sentence. Such  phrases are free modifiers
> that can be placed anywhere in the sentence without causing confusion. (If
> the placement of the  modifier causes confusion, then it is not "free" and
> must remain "bound" to the word it modifies.)
>
> Nancy waved enthusiastically at the docking ship, laughing joyously.
> (correct)
> INCORRECT:Lisa waved at Nancy, laughing joyously. (Who is laughing, Lisa or
> Nancy?) Laughing joyously, Lisa waved at Nancy. (correct) Lisa waved at
> Nancy, who was laughing joyously. (correct)
>
>
> 9. Use commas to set off all geographical names, items in dates (except the
> month and day), addresses (except the street  number and name), and titles
> in names.
>
> Birmingham, Alabama, gets its name from Birmingham, England. July 22, 1959,
> was a momentous day in his life. Who lives at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue,
> Washington, DC? Rachel B. Lake, MD, will be the principal speaker. (When you
> use just the month and the year, no comma is necessary after the month or
> year: "The average temperatures  for July
> 1998 are the highest on record for that month.")
>
> 10. Use a comma to shift between the main discourse and a quotation.
> John said without emotion, "I'll see you tomorrow."
>
> "I was able," she answered, "to complete the assignment."
>
> In 1848, Marx wrote, "Workers of the world, unite!"
>
> 11. Use commas wherever necessary to prevent possible confusion or
> misreading.
>
> To George, Harrison had been a sort of idol.
>
> Comma abuse
> Commas in the wrong places can break a sentence into illogical segments or
> confuse readers with unnecessary and  unexpected pauses.
>
> 12. Don't use a comma to separate the subject from the verb.
>
> INCORRECT: An eighteen-year old in California, is now considered an adult.
>
> INCORRECT: The most important attribute of a ball player, is quick reflex
> actions.
>
> 13. Don't put a comma between the two verbs or verb phrases in a compound
> predicate.
>
> INCORRECT: We laid out our music and snacks, and began to study.
>
> INCORRECT: I turned the corner, and ran smack into a patrol car.
>
> 14. Don't put a comma between the two nouns, noun phrases, or noun clauses
> in a compound subject or compound  object.
>
> INCORRECT (compound subject): The music teacher from your high school, and
> the football coach from mine are  married.
>
> INCORRECT (compound object): Jeff told me that the job was still available,
> and that the manager wanted to interview  me.
>
> 15. Don't put a comma after the main clause when a dependent
> (subordinate) clause follows it (except for cases of  extreme contrast).
>
> INCORRECT: The cat scratched at the door, while I was eating.
> CORRECT: She was still quite upset, although she had won the Oscar.
> (This comma use is correct because it is an  example of extreme
> contrast)
>
>
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