[stylist] Thea, New Kid

Thu Mar 13 13:13:32 UTC 2014

Hi Bridgit,
There are "standards," and the new WCAG guidelines that are internationally adopted and will become law in the US are even better than the old ones in effect now. They made them intentionally measurable and technology-neutral. The problem is, just as with the physical standards, there is some room for interpretation in the implementation. Plus, in my humble opinion, as someone who is working to improve my writing, the writing is so bad that you shake your proverbial head and hope you interpret what they mean. Part of this is because they intentionally strip out any technology-specific language in the guidelines, and then go on to point you to technology-specific solutions. And the number of links that you have to click to find out what they are talking about and how to implement the stuff would just make any developer or tester gray before they are born. So I totally understand how a developer can just throw up their hands and say "Just tell me what to do already.  I want to help, but this is just not fun. And then we have some crazy blind dude saying "This isn't accessible and you owe me some help," with no guidance on how to help. Oops, there I go again.

One example or two will help, maybe. On street corners, you have ramps. Sometimes, there is a ramp at each cross walk. Sometimes there is one ramp right on the corner for both cross walks. Sometimes the ramp has little rubber things on it to help wheelchair users stop. Sometimes not. On the web, we are supposed to have alternate text for images, even if the alternate text is blank and eliminates decorative images from cluttering up the listening space. The guidelines say nothing about what text to write to describe those images. 

Along with the guidelines, though, we have a body of supplemental documents that periodically are going to be refreshed by the guidelines people every six months that try to capture the best things to do to write the descriptions for images. The guidelines and best practice documents cover all accessibility issues, but you get the idea, right?

Along with that, technology is changing, browser support of accessibility is evolving, screen reader vendors are trying to keep up, we are trying to educate developers and testers, even the underpinning that exposes the accessibility is evolving with each release of whatever operating system you run, decisions are being made about how to support backward compatibility, and how long can I make this sentence?

It's just not very simple, but I truly think that most people want to help, and they will want to help more if we educate, rather than wine. But it makes us look bad when we don't know how, and the reason doesn't matter, to solve some of our own problems. 

One case in point is that many blind people know an inaccessible Word document when they see one, but don't know how to create them. We need to largely help ourselves. We can't say that we want people to feel all sorry for us because we are blind and then as our first reaction, ask for help before we google, or press F1 for help, or read a few paragraphs of screen reader help. 

Woo. Maybe I'm wining too much.

Thanks for your patience.

Jim 
Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bridgit Pollpeter
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 12:16 AM
To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid

Donna,

I never thought of this but you're absolutely correct. Buildings legally
must have so many accessible entrances and bathrooms, but when it comes
to blind accessibility, it's often lacking. Why are legal standards
expected for one disability but not another? Websites and technology
should have to adhere to certain standards, and yes, actual blind users
should be the testers. I get so tired of non-disabled people doing the
work, not thinking they need people with a given disability to test,
comment and assist.

Bridgit

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
Applebutter Hill
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 4:19 PM
To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid

Jim,
I know what you mean. Getting the most out of our screen readers is a
lot of hard work, because every site is different. It can be
exceptionally frustrating to spend hours trying to get something done
that we know a sighted person can do in ten minutes. Nevertheless, it is
what it is, and it's possible to get a lot further than many screen
reader users get. I get aggravated when blind people ask me to provide
them with a web address, when they can Google it in the same amount of
time as I can. It feels sometimes like they don't realize that I had to
go through the same grueling and aggravating process they are trying to
avoid to get the knowledge I have and that I have to continue struggling
every day despite the stress of it, because it's the only way I can get
anywhere.

On the other hand, people who want to build a hospital want their
building to be accessible to everyone too, and they don't know how to do
it either. The difference is that the architects of brick and mortor
facilities have to meet standards which are scrutinized by licensing
officials prior to one brick being laid. Website designers, whose jobs
involve putting 1s and0s in the right places, are on their own. They
either don't consider accessibility or they hire someone to test the
accessibility who is not a user of the adaptive software on a regular
basis. It's difficult to force yourself to not notice things if you can
see them, and difficult to be conscious of when your sight has
influenced something you do with the screen reader. IMO, websites should
be tested for accessibility by blind people and some of them should have
average screen reader skills.

Also, there are other accessibility issues in addition to screen
readers. Sites need to work for people using magnification and voice
recognition as well. Donna

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Homme,
James
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 8:16 AM
To: Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid

Hi,
I do accessibility work a lot. In my experience, most people want to
make their stuff accessible. They just don't know what accessibility is,
or how it affects people with disabilities. Most people assume,
naturally enough, that whoever wants to can simply just use their stuff.
And one of my pet peeves is when someone who should know how to use
their screen reader better complains that something is inaccessible,
because they don't want to take the time to use the help available to
them. We make ourselves look bad when this happens.

Sorry. I'm a little cranky today. I need to do my journaling.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miss Thea
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 2:43 PM
To: Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid

Think I'll document my experiences with Triond on my new blog, then
spread it on Social Media like butter on bread. Hahahaha. Thea

-----Original Message-----
From: Atty Rose
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 11:33 AM
To: Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid

Hi Thea,

Welcome. I get so frustrated when this happens. If writing letters isn't
working and there is no phone, all you can do really put a claim against
them, or have all your blind friends write them too. I always write a
letter if I run into issues. Even if nothing happens I stand up for our
comunity. Sometimes it works great! Sometimes I get nothing back.

All you can do is your best!

Well met,
Atty

----- Original Message -----
From: "Miss Thea" <thearamsay at rogers.com>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 3:45 AM
Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid

> Hi, Donna.
> There is a place where you can upload photos, but it is still 
> inaccessible, as you have to drag and drop images.
>
> All I want is my name in print--a hardcover or paperback with my John 
> Hancock and a great story inside, that people can get lost in. I don't

> mind doing the work; I don't mind doing hard work. But I DO mind 
> wasting my time, and there's not even a way for me to express my 
> displeasure by cancelling my account. I guess I could just let it go, 
> and concentrate on the things I can do, which is why I'm here.
> Nice to meet you, too.
> Thea
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Applebutter Hill
> Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2014 8:11 PM
> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>
> Hi Thea,
> Welcome to Stylist. I wrote for a bunch of online magazines for years,

> but not this one. I'm thinking of a couple of things.
>
> First, what would a person do if they had their own photos? Is there 
> an uploader? It seems bogus that they would force people to pick and 
> choose from stock photos and not have an option to upload photos of 
> their
own.
>
> I'm saying this, because, if there is an uploader that you can use, 
> there are sites where you can get free, high quality photos that you 
> could download and then upload to this site. The captions are usually 
> clear enough to get the idea what the photo is, and as long as you 
> credit the photographer or the group, you can use them without fear.
>
> As far as your efforts to bring this to the attention of the site go, 
> it is something we need to do, but it rarely results in positive 
> changes. I used to write for Suite 101, which had revenue sharing and 
> required a photo with each article. It was accessible until they re 
> designed their site. I wrote to them many times, and I was assured 
> that accessibility was a priority for them. They even asked me to do 
> beta testing on the new site, which I did. Nothing ever changed. 
> Ultimately they dropped their journalistic standards, such as they 
> were, and at that point, I really wasn't interested in writing for 
> them anyway.
>
> Suite 101 is a Canadian company, so they don't fall under our laws. 
> But, the laws we have in the US are not being enforced even on 
> government websites. The irony to me was that when Suite 101 started 
> becoming less accessible, I was in the midst of writing a series of 
> articles on web accessibility.
>
> Anyway, it's nice to meet you, and I look forward to getting to know 
> you. Donna
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miss 
> Thea
> Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2014 5:36 PM
> To: stylist at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>
> Hi, everyone.
> I'm Thea, I just joined the list, and I write all kinds of stuff: 
> fiction, nonfiction, and fan fiction. I guess that about covers it, 
> eh? I used to publish articles and short stories on www.triond.com but

> they require an image with each submission. I had sighted help for a 
> while, but once the sighted help disappeared, I found I could not use 
> this site because of its image requirement. It's not a Captcha I have 
> to fill in. This site requires, along with the article, your selection

> of a category, which you can choose from a combo
> box: health, news, politics, women ... Then after the body of your
> article, you add tags. Let's say you've chosen "women". Your tags
> could be birth control, birth control devices, IUD, etc.
> Then there's a question mark where a chosen image should go. You hit
> the "get image suggestions" button, and images are supposed to present
> themselves.
> At this time, you have to be able to see the image and drag it to the
> question mark.
> Last but not least, you have to check the box that says you are the
> original creator of this work, and click submit.
> Piece o' cake ... if you can see.
> Has anyone ever tried or found some way around this difficulty?
> The site is www.triond.com
> My emails to them about this barrier have netted me no response.
> The site is free, and supposedly, you can create a following, if
> you're prolific enough, and you can earn money, be it ever so small.
> I don't mind that. I DO mind this inaccessibility, and the company's
> apparent lack of interest.
> Anyone ever tried this www.triond.com
> While I had sighted help, I published articles and stories, so I have
> a small portfolio if you like.
> Now the sighted help is gone, and I'm stuck.
> Any help appreciated,
> Thea
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