[stylist] Thea, New Kid

Thu Mar 13 16:31:03 UTC 2014

Thea,
I understand your perspective, but I disagree with dividing us up into
sub-groups. All of the examples you gave are still viewed as blind by the
general public. Even more importantly, we are already the smallest minority;
we are what is referred to as a "low-incidence disability. Because of this
and the geographic separation, we are already in a position of not posing
much of a threat to the public. We aren't out there protesting regularly,
sitting in or even (though I don't recommend this ) throwing rocks. When the
calls come for us to write letters to our elected officials, sign petitions
and the like, a very small percentage of us actually take action (even if
you limit it to the NFB membership). I know for certain that the subset that
is willing to take the time out of their busy days to sign a petition, put
notices on social media, call Congress, etc. is a diversified group that
includes every category you mention. Dividing ourselves is suicide.

Also, we are essentially expendable, easily overlooked and our issues are at
the bottom of the pecking order when it comes to social change.

The goal is to live in a world where blindness is no more of a barrier than
blonde hair. But, I don't think there are many blind activists who believe
that a person can transition from fully sighted to blind without a
significant input of work, dedication and perseverance. There is also the
shock value of those kind of proclamations, which is how everyone else does
it. And, the fact that we are discriminated against and that the world isn't
opening its arms to welcome us doesn't diminish the truth that, given the
proper training and a can-do attitude, blind people can and do flourish
despite the barriers imposed by a foolish public.
Donna

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miss Thea
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 2:48 AM
To: Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid

How the blue blazes can a non-disabled person test for anything regarding
the blind, or any other disability?
What are people smoking these days?
Would you, as a blind person, offer to test for a deaf-user product? Of
course you wouldn't.
Some people blame certain things on the militant blind, saying they're the
ones who made it difficult for the rest of us. If blindness is no more than
a nuisance, or a characteristic like blond hair, well then, it follows.
People with blond hair don't use different technology, so if blindness is
truly a mere characteristic like blond hair, as I've heard at the only NFB
convention I ever went to, then why should it change?
We don't need anything. We're rough, tough, independent blind people. Right?

I've always considered blindness a major disability. The day it becomes a
mere nuisance or a characteristic like blond hair will be the day when I can
get any job, use any computer, drive a car, read any type of print including
hand writing, and so forth.
Till that day, and especially with websites going backwards instead of
forwards, I'm afraid I disagree with our more militant friends.
I'm not a rough, tough, young independent blind person.
I'm on the sunny side of 50, have illnesses and conditions not related to
blindness, and frankly, I'm having trouble keeping up with all the changes.
I'm doing my best, but the last Windows I liked was Windows XP.
Not only do I remember text-based DOS and the text adventure games I so much
enjoyed, (as an adult in her late twenties), I remember when there were no
such things as computers.
I remember when the most exciting thing I experienced was the Optacon and
the talking calculator. I remember the Braille I read in the 70's, and have
no idea why they need to unify the whole darn Braille code.

Gays and lesbians for instance, gained the right to marry and put their
spouse under their health insurance at work, and be the next of kin when an
emergency happened, and now have many rights they didn't when I was growing
up, because they fought for the same things, and they fought in force.
One of the complaints I've heard is that the blind community is too busy
fighting among themselves and spending their energies whining, etc.
The problem with blindness is that it's a continuum, not just one condition.
Let's say Al's totally blind, never so much as seen light, while Tyler sees
light and shadows and therefore probably has better mobility. Tessa can see
enough to read large print, while Bill can do everything but drive. That's
all lumped under the general category of blindness.
Oh, then there's blind-plus. I.E. Lucy's deaf-blind, Samantha's partially
blind and partially deaf, and Tiny Tim there, not only uses a wheelchair but
is stone cold blind.
How does one community address all these needs? Why should the guy who can
do everything but drive care about the guy who's never so much as seen
light? These men perceive the world totally differently, and their needs are
different.
I think lumping everyone into the "blindness" community may be filling a
small boat with more people than it can handle.
I propose the idea that there is a blind community, a partially sighted
community, and a blind-plus community.
The blind community would comprise totals and those who have so little
vision, it's not useful to them.
Anyway, if we could sort ourselves out, decide what we need, and go after it
in force, we could end up getting what we want, couldn't we?
Sure, there are more LGBT people than there are blind people, but I'm sure
the LGBT community had to work out differences, too. Bisexuals had different
needs than transgenders, etc.
Anyway, that's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
Thea
-----Original Message-----
From: Bridgit Pollpeter
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 12:15 AM
To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid

Donna,

I never thought of this but you're absolutely correct. Buildings legally
must have so many accessible entrances and bathrooms, but when it comes to
blind accessibility, it's often lacking. Why are legal standards expected
for one disability but not another? Websites and technology should have to
adhere to certain standards, and yes, actual blind users should be the
testers. I get so tired of non-disabled people doing the work, not thinking
they need people with a given disability to test, comment and assist.

Bridgit

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Applebutter
Hill
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 4:19 PM
To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid

Jim,
I know what you mean. Getting the most out of our screen readers is a lot of
hard work, because every site is different. It can be exceptionally
frustrating to spend hours trying to get something done that we know a
sighted person can do in ten minutes. Nevertheless, it is what it is, and
it's possible to get a lot further than many screen reader users get. I get
aggravated when blind people ask me to provide them with a web address, when
they can Google it in the same amount of time as I can. It feels sometimes
like they don't realize that I had to go through the same grueling and
aggravating process they are trying to avoid to get the knowledge I have and
that I have to continue struggling every day despite the stress of it,
because it's the only way I can get anywhere.

On the other hand, people who want to build a hospital want their building
to be accessible to everyone too, and they don't know how to do it either.
The difference is that the architects of brick and mortor facilities have to
meet standards which are scrutinized by licensing officials prior to one
brick being laid. Website designers, whose jobs involve putting 1s and0s in
the right places, are on their own. They either don't consider accessibility
or they hire someone to test the accessibility who is not a user of the
adaptive software on a regular basis. It's difficult to force yourself to
not notice things if you can see them, and difficult to be conscious of when
your sight has influenced something you do with the screen reader. IMO,
websites should be tested for accessibility by blind people and some of them
should have average screen reader skills.

Also, there are other accessibility issues in addition to screen readers.
Sites need to work for people using magnification and voice recognition as
well. Donna

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Homme, James
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 8:16 AM
To: Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid

Hi,
I do accessibility work a lot. In my experience, most people want to make
their stuff accessible. They just don't know what accessibility is, or how
it affects people with disabilities. Most people assume, naturally enough,
that whoever wants to can simply just use their stuff.
And one of my pet peeves is when someone who should know how to use their
screen reader better complains that something is inaccessible, because they
don't want to take the time to use the help available to them. We make
ourselves look bad when this happens.

Sorry. I'm a little cranky today. I need to do my journaling.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miss Thea
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 2:43 PM
To: Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid

Think I'll document my experiences with Triond on my new blog, then spread
it on Social Media like butter on bread. Hahahaha. Thea

-----Original Message-----
From: Atty Rose
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 11:33 AM
To: Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid

Hi Thea,

Welcome. I get so frustrated when this happens. If writing letters isn't
working and there is no phone, all you can do really put a claim against
them, or have all your blind friends write them too. I always write a letter
if I run into issues. Even if nothing happens I stand up for our comunity.
Sometimes it works great! Sometimes I get nothing back.

All you can do is your best!

Well met,
Atty

----- Original Message -----
From: "Miss Thea" <thearamsay at rogers.com>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 3:45 AM
Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid

> Hi, Donna.
> There is a place where you can upload photos, but it is still
> inaccessible, as you have to drag and drop images.
>
> All I want is my name in print--a hardcover or paperback with my John
> Hancock and a great story inside, that people can get lost in. I don't

> mind doing the work; I don't mind doing hard work. But I DO mind
> wasting my time, and there's not even a way for me to express my
> displeasure by cancelling my account. I guess I could just let it go,
> and concentrate on the things I can do, which is why I'm here.
> Nice to meet you, too.
> Thea
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Applebutter Hill
> Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2014 8:11 PM
> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>
> Hi Thea,
> Welcome to Stylist. I wrote for a bunch of online magazines for years,

> but not this one. I'm thinking of a couple of things.
>
> First, what would a person do if they had their own photos? Is there
> an uploader? It seems bogus that they would force people to pick and
> choose from stock photos and not have an option to upload photos of
> their
own.
>
> I'm saying this, because, if there is an uploader that you can use,
> there are sites where you can get free, high quality photos that you
> could download and then upload to this site. The captions are usually
> clear enough to get the idea what the photo is, and as long as you
> credit the photographer or the group, you can use them without fear.
>
> As far as your efforts to bring this to the attention of the site go,
> it is something we need to do, but it rarely results in positive
> changes. I used to write for Suite 101, which had revenue sharing and
> required a photo with each article. It was accessible until they re
> designed their site. I wrote to them many times, and I was assured
> that accessibility was a priority for them. They even asked me to do
> beta testing on the new site, which I did. Nothing ever changed.
> Ultimately they dropped their journalistic standards, such as they
> were, and at that point, I really wasn't interested in writing for
> them anyway.
>
> Suite 101 is a Canadian company, so they don't fall under our laws.
> But, the laws we have in the US are not being enforced even on
> government websites. The irony to me was that when Suite 101 started
> becoming less accessible, I was in the midst of writing a series of
> articles on web accessibility.
>
> Anyway, it's nice to meet you, and I look forward to getting to know
> you. Donna
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miss
> Thea
> Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2014 5:36 PM
> To: stylist at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>
> Hi, everyone.
> I'm Thea, I just joined the list, and I write all kinds of stuff:
> fiction, nonfiction, and fan fiction. I guess that about covers it,
> eh? I used to publish articles and short stories on www.triond.com but

> they require an image with each submission. I had sighted help for a
> while, but once the sighted help disappeared, I found I could not use
> this site because of its image requirement. It's not a Captcha I have
> to fill in. This site requires, along with the article, your selection

> of a category, which you can choose from a combo
> box: health, news, politics, women ... Then after the body of your
> article, you add tags. Let's say you've chosen "women". Your tags
> could be birth control, birth control devices, IUD, etc.
> Then there's a question mark where a chosen image should go. You hit
> the "get image suggestions" button, and images are supposed to present
> themselves.
> At this time, you have to be able to see the image and drag it to the
> question mark.
> Last but not least, you have to check the box that says you are the
> original creator of this work, and click submit.
> Piece o' cake ... if you can see.
> Has anyone ever tried or found some way around this difficulty?
> The site is www.triond.com
> My emails to them about this barrier have netted me no response.
> The site is free, and supposedly, you can create a following, if
> you're prolific enough, and you can earn money, be it ever so small.
> I don't mind that. I DO mind this inaccessibility, and the company's
> apparent lack of interest.
> Anyone ever tried this www.triond.com
> While I had sighted help, I published articles and stories, so I have
> a small portfolio if you like.
> Now the sighted help is gone, and I'm stuck.
> Any help appreciated,
> Thea
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site
> http://writers.nfb.org/
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> stylist:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/applebutterhill%4
> 0gmail
> .com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site
> http://writers.nfb.org/
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> stylist:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/thearamsay%40roge
> rs.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site
> http://writers.nfb.org/
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> stylist:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/attyrose%40cox.ne
> t

_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site
http://writers.nfb.org/
stylist mailing list
stylist at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
stylist:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/thearamsay%40rogers
.com

_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site
http://writers.nfb.org/
stylist mailing list
stylist at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
stylist:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/james.homme%40highm
ark.
com

________________________________

This e-mail and any attachments to it are confidential and are intended
solely for use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender
immediately and then delete it. If you are not the intended recipient, you
must not keep, use, disclose, copy or distribute this e-mail without the
author's prior permission. The views expressed in this e-mail message do not
necessarily represent the views of Highmark, its diversified business, or
affiliates.

_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site
http://writers.nfb.org/
stylist mailing list
stylist at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
stylist:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/applebutterhill%40g
mail
.com

_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site
http://writers.nfb.org/
stylist mailing list
stylist at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
stylist:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/bpollpeter%40hotmai
l.com

_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site
http://writers.nfb.org/
stylist mailing list
stylist at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
stylist:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/thearamsay%40rogers.com

_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site
http://writers.nfb.org/
stylist mailing list
stylist at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
stylist:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/applebutterhill%40gmail
.com