[stylist] dividing blind people into groups

Sat Mar 15 14:25:22 UTC 2014

Lynda, a lot of people don't.
A lot of the blind people I know have poor social skills. I have emotional 
and behavioral problems myself.
I came out of the boarding school in seventh grade, and went directly to 
mainstream. The experience was traumatic, and I was no more prepared to 
enter it, than I would have been had I finished school at W. Ross MacDonald.
In addition, my home was certainly a distopia. I didn't realize my mother 
and stepdad were on the verge of breakup. I had no inkling there was 
trouble, and while being made fun of at school, trying to fit in with a 
sighted curriculum, such as in science we all went outside and looked 
through a telescope, (well I wasn't made to look through it, but I was made 
to stand there while the sighted kids did, and expected not to make a peep 
about how I felt about it).
I was 12 years old.
I came from an environment where Braille was provided, to a half-baked 
infant idea we now call mainstreaming.
In truth, both environments were hard on me, and both environments offered 
opportunities and challenges.
Thea

-----Original Message----- 
From: Lynda Lambert
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2014 10:16 AM
To: Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [stylist] dividing blind people into groups

thea,
I cannot even imagine going to a school where people are parceled out into
groups like this.  How in the world does a child ever learn to participate
in the community of  "all people"?  It really sounds like a distopia - or a
level of hell as per Dante' - how do you ever learn to be with other people
after being kept in a sheltered yet, sequesterd, environment?  This is
interesting and certainly worthy of significant discussion and writing
projects. Lynda

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Miss Thea" <thearamsay at rogers.com>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2014 9:06 AM
Subject: Re: [stylist] dividing blind people into groups

> The way I've found it, is in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is 
> king.
> At the school I went to, the house parents' favorites always seemed to be 
> the kids with the most sight, no other physical or emotional handicaps, 
> etc.
> Thea
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Lynda Lambert
> Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2014 6:17 AM
> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [stylist] dividing blind people into groups
>
> This concept reminds me of the system of household servants in the early
> 20th century - the butler was always on top!  The outside yard workers 
> were
> on the bottom. Others, like the chaufeur and laundry people, and personal
> maids had their own part in between in the hierarchy.  Only the butler 
> could
> serve the meals to the family - from the special pantry located between 
> the
> kitchen and the dining room. Only the Butler was there when the last guest
> left at 3 am, and on Christmas day when the family had their gift 
> exchanges
> and merriment.  The butler had a wife and five children, but they seldom 
> saw
> him - his first priority was to serve his employers.
>
> Hierarchy is such an interesting thing, isn't it. Even the blind community
> seems to have it's own sense of hierarchy, and gives itself demeaning 
> names
> and labels. I can imagine the hierarchy stories are quite vivid in a
> specialized school such as you have described.  Very interesting. Lynda
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Applebutter Hill" <applebutterhill at gmail.com>
> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 9:23 PM
> Subject: Re: [stylist] dividing blind people into groups
>
>
>> Shawn,
>> I never went to a school for the blind, but to show you how perceptions
>> differ, I'm going to share something I heard many years ago. I got my 
>> first
>> guide dog in 1971, and there was one other partially sighted person on my
>> class, who actually lived in the town I was living in. She was in her 50s
>> and went to Overbrook School for the Blind. She said that the partials 
>> were
>> slaves to the staff and were expected to do things for themselves because
>> they had sight and do things for the totally blind kids also. When you 
>> said
>> the partials were on top, I couldn't help remembering.
>> Donna
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jacobson,
>> Shawn D
>> Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 3:14 PM
>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] dividing blind people into groups
>>
>> What I remember from the braille school was that there was a pecking 
>> order
>> by how much you could see.  The high partials were generally on top with 
>> the
>> totally blind on the bottom.  When we had mobility training there were 
>> the
>> totally blind (Rams) and the partially sighted (Ramblers) and they were 
>> in
>> different classes for our mobility milers contest.
>>
>> And then there were the religious differences (mostly Catholic or 
>> Protestant
>> or Jewish).
>>
>> Point being, sighted folk will put us into bins according to their own
>> tastes.
>>
>> Shawn
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Atty Rose
>> Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 2:46 PM
>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>> Subject: [stylist] dividing blind people into groups
>>
>> I really don't think I can add anything to Donna's remarks, she said it 
>> so
>> well. I just want to say that there is power in numbers. I am one of 
>> those
>> who write letters and call my senators and congress-people.  Sometimes 
>> when
>> we feel isolated we can feel like we're the only ones, but there is a 
>> whole
>> vast group of visually impaired people. And even though we don't always
>> agree   with one another, we don't have to to stand by one another.
>>
>> Perhaps we have issues with the NFB, but here we are on their list 
>> talking
>> to people who care about what we say.
>>
>> And if they sent out a notice to call our reps, I'd be dialing away.
>>
>> Change takes time and Scheril is right about fighting for it. Sometimes 
>> we
>> have to take a rest from the battle. I'm resting right now on the NFB 
>> rights
>> thing. I am fortunate to belong to a blind group that doesn't care what 
>> you
>> see, what your philosaphies are or your life preferences and so I feel
>> content doing all I can for them.
>>
>> The time will come for us to gather a group and approach the upper 
>> eshilons
>> of the NFB and speak up again. Maybe we're down but never out.
>>
>> Life is one long adventure!
>> Atty
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" <bpollpeter at hotmail.com>
>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 11:14 PM
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>
>>
>>> Very eloquently said.
>>>
>>> Bridgit
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>> Applebutter Hill
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 11:31 AM
>>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>
>>>
>>> Thea,
>>> I understand your perspective, but I disagree with dividing us up into
>>> sub-groups. All of the examples you gave are still viewed as blind by
>>> the general public. Even more importantly, we are already the smallest
>>> minority; we are what is referred to as a "low-incidence disability.
>>> Because of this and the geographic separation, we are already in a
>>> position of not posing much of a threat to the public. We aren't out
>>> there protesting regularly, sitting in or even (though I don't
>>> recommend this ) throwing rocks. When the calls come for us to write
>>> letters to our elected officials, sign petitions and the like, a very
>>> small percentage of us actually take action (even if you limit it to
>>> the NFB membership). I know for certain that the subset that is
>>> willing to take the time out of their busy days to sign a petition,
>>> put notices on social media, call Congress, etc. is a diversified
>>> group that includes every category you mention. Dividing ourselves is
>> suicide.
>>>
>>> Also, we are essentially expendable, easily overlooked and our issues
>>> are at the bottom of the pecking order when it comes to social change.
>>>
>>> The goal is to live in a world where blindness is no more of a barrier
>>> than blonde hair. But, I don't think there are many blind activists
>>> who believe that a person can transition from fully sighted to blind
>>> without a significant input of work, dedication and perseverance.
>>> There is also the shock value of those kind of proclamations, which is
>>> how everyone else does it. And, the fact that we are discriminated
>>> against and that the world isn't opening its arms to welcome us
>>> doesn't diminish the truth that, given the proper training and a
>>> can-do attitude, blind people can and do flourish despite the barriers
>>> imposed by a foolish public. Donna
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miss
>>> Thea
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 2:48 AM
>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>
>>> How the blue blazes can a non-disabled person test for anything
>>> regarding the blind, or any other disability? What are people smoking
>>> these days? Would you, as a blind person, offer to test for a
>>> deaf-user product? Of course you wouldn't. Some people blame certain
>>> things on the militant blind, saying they're the ones who made it
>>> difficult for the rest of us. If blindness is no more than a nuisance,
>>> or a characteristic like blond hair, well then, it follows. People
>>> with blond hair don't use different technology, so if blindness is
>>> truly a mere characteristic like blond hair, as I've heard at the only
>>> NFB convention I ever went to, then why should it change? We don't
>>> need anything. We're rough, tough, independent blind people. Right?
>>>
>>> I've always considered blindness a major disability. The day it
>>> becomes a mere nuisance or a characteristic like blond hair will be
>>> the day when I can get any job, use any computer, drive a car, read
>>> any type of print including hand writing, and so forth. Till that day,
>>> and especially with websites going backwards instead of forwards, I'm
>>> afraid I disagree with our more militant friends. I'm not a rough,
>>> tough, young independent blind person. I'm on the sunny side of 50,
>>> have illnesses and conditions not related to blindness, and frankly,
>>> I'm having trouble keeping up with all the changes. I'm doing my best,
>>> but the last Windows I liked was Windows XP. Not only do I remember
>>> text-based DOS and the text adventure games I so much enjoyed, (as an
>>> adult in her late twenties), I remember when there were no such things
>>> as computers. I remember when the most exciting thing I experienced
>>> was the Optacon and the talking calculator. I remember the Braille I
>>> read in the 70's, and have no idea why they need to unify the whole darn
>> Braille code.
>>>
>>> Gays and lesbians for instance, gained the right to marry and put
>>> their spouse under their health insurance at work, and be the next of
>>> kin when an emergency happened, and now have many rights they didn't
>>> when I was growing up, because they fought for the same things, and
>>> they fought in force. One of the complaints I've heard is that the
>>> blind community is too busy fighting among themselves and spending
>>> their energies whining, etc. The problem with blindness is that it's a
>>> continuum, not just one condition. Let's say Al's totally blind, never
>>> so much as seen light, while Tyler sees light and shadows and
>>> therefore probably has better mobility. Tessa can see enough to read
>>> large print, while Bill can do everything but drive. That's all lumped
>>> under the general category of blindness. Oh, then there's blind-plus.
>>> I.E. Lucy's deaf-blind, Samantha's partially blind and partially deaf,
>>> and Tiny Tim there, not only uses a wheelchair but is stone cold
>>> blind. How does one community address all these needs? Why should the
>>> guy who can do everything but drive care about the guy who's never so
>>> much as seen light? These men perceive the world totally differently,
>>> and their needs are different. I think lumping everyone into the
>>> "blindness" community may be filling a small boat with more people
>>> than it can handle. I propose the idea that there is a blind
>>> community, a partially sighted community, and a blind-plus community.
>>> The blind community would comprise totals and those who have so little
>>> vision, it's not useful to them. Anyway, if we could sort ourselves
>>> out, decide what we need, and go after it in force, we could end up
>>> getting what we want, couldn't we? Sure, there are more LGBT people
>>> than there are blind people, but I'm sure the LGBT community had to
>>> work out differences, too. Bisexuals had different needs than
>>> transgenders, etc. Anyway, that's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
>>> Thea -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 12:15 AM
>>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>
>>> Donna,
>>>
>>> I never thought of this but you're absolutely correct. Buildings
>>> legally must have so many accessible entrances and bathrooms, but when
>>> it comes to blind accessibility, it's often lacking. Why are legal
>>> standards expected for one disability but not another? Websites and
>>> technology should have to adhere to certain standards, and yes, actual
>>> blind users should be the testers. I get so tired of non-disabled
>>> people doing the work, not thinking they need people with a given
>>> disability to test, comment and assist.
>>>
>>> Bridgit
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>> Applebutter Hill
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 4:19 PM
>>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>
>>>
>>> Jim,
>>> I know what you mean. Getting the most out of our screen readers is a
>>> lot of hard work, because every site is different. It can be
>>> exceptionally frustrating to spend hours trying to get something done
>>> that we know a sighted person can do in ten minutes. Nevertheless, it
>>> is what it is, and it's possible to get a lot further than many screen
>>> reader users get. I get aggravated when blind people ask me to provide
>>> them with a web address, when they can Google it in the same amount of
>>> time as I can. It feels sometimes like they don't realize that I had
>>> to go through the same grueling and aggravating process they are
>>> trying to avoid to get the knowledge I have and that I have to
>>> continue struggling every day despite the stress of it, because it's
>>> the only way I can get anywhere.
>>>
>>> On the other hand, people who want to build a hospital want their
>>> building to be accessible to everyone too, and they don't know how to
>>> do it either. The difference is that the architects of brick and
>>> mortor facilities have to meet standards which are scrutinized by
>>> licensing officials prior to one brick being laid. Website designers,
>>> whose jobs involve putting 1s and0s in the right places, are on their
>>> own. They either don't consider accessibility or they hire someone to
>>> test the accessibility who is not a user of the adaptive software on a
>>> regular basis. It's difficult to force yourself to not notice things
>>> if you can see them, and difficult to be conscious of when your sight
>>> has influenced something you do with the screen reader. IMO, websites
>>> should be tested for accessibility by blind people and some of them
>>> should have average screen reader skills.
>>>
>>> Also, there are other accessibility issues in addition to screen
>>> readers. Sites need to work for people using magnification and voice
>>> recognition as well. Donna
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Homme,
>>> James
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 8:16 AM
>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>> I do accessibility work a lot. In my experience, most people want to
>>> make their stuff accessible. They just don't know what accessibility
>>> is, or how it affects people with disabilities. Most people assume,
>>> naturally enough, that whoever wants to can simply just use their stuff.
>>> And one of my pet peeves is when someone who should know how to use
>>> their screen reader better complains that something is inaccessible,
>>> because they don't want to take the time to use the help available to
>>> them. We make ourselves look bad when this happens.
>>>
>>> Sorry. I'm a little cranky today. I need to do my journaling.
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miss
>>> Thea
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 2:43 PM
>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>
>>> Think I'll document my experiences with Triond on my new blog, then
>>> spread it on Social Media like butter on bread. Hahahaha. Thea
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Atty Rose
>>> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 11:33 AM
>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>
>>> Hi Thea,
>>>
>>> Welcome. I get so frustrated when this happens. If writing letters
>>> isn't working and there is no phone, all you can do really put a claim
>>> against them, or have all your blind friends write them too. I always
>>> write a letter if I run into issues. Even if nothing happens I stand
>>> up for our comunity. Sometimes it works great! Sometimes I get nothing
>> back.
>>>
>>> All you can do is your best!
>>>
>>> Well met,
>>> Atty
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Miss Thea" <thearamsay at rogers.com>
>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 3:45 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi, Donna.
>>>> There is a place where you can upload photos, but it is still
>>>> inaccessible, as you have to drag and drop images.
>>>>
>>>> All I want is my name in print--a hardcover or paperback with my John
>>>> Hancock and a great story inside, that people can get lost in. I
>>>> don't
>>>
>>>> mind doing the work; I don't mind doing hard work. But I DO mind
>>>> wasting my time, and there's not even a way for me to express my
>>>> displeasure by cancelling my account. I guess I could just let it go,
>>>> and concentrate on the things I can do, which is why I'm here. Nice
>>>> to
>>>
>>>> meet you, too. Thea
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Applebutter Hill
>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2014 8:11 PM
>>>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>>
>>>> Hi Thea,
>>>> Welcome to Stylist. I wrote for a bunch of online magazines for
>>>> years,
>>>
>>>> but not this one. I'm thinking of a couple of things.
>>>>
>>>> First, what would a person do if they had their own photos? Is there
>>>> an uploader? It seems bogus that they would force people to pick and
>>>> choose from stock photos and not have an option to upload photos of
>>>> their
>>> own.
>>>>
>>>> I'm saying this, because, if there is an uploader that you can use,
>>>> there are sites where you can get free, high quality photos that you
>>>> could download and then upload to this site. The captions are usually
>>>> clear enough to get the idea what the photo is, and as long as you
>>>> credit the photographer or the group, you can use them without fear.
>>>>
>>>> As far as your efforts to bring this to the attention of the site go,
>>>> it is something we need to do, but it rarely results in positive
>>>> changes. I used to write for Suite 101, which had revenue sharing and
>>>> required a photo with each article. It was accessible until they re
>>>> designed their site. I wrote to them many times, and I was assured
>>>> that accessibility was a priority for them. They even asked me to do
>>>> beta testing on the new site, which I did. Nothing ever changed.
>>>> Ultimately they dropped their journalistic standards, such as they
>>>> were, and at that point, I really wasn't interested in writing for
>>>> them anyway.
>>>>
>>>> Suite 101 is a Canadian company, so they don't fall under our laws.
>>>> But, the laws we have in the US are not being enforced even on
>>>> government websites. The irony to me was that when Suite 101 started
>>>> becoming less accessible, I was in the midst of writing a series of
>>>> articles on web accessibility.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, it's nice to meet you, and I look forward to getting to know
>>>> you. Donna
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miss
>>>> Thea
>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2014 5:36 PM
>>>> To: stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> Subject: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>>
>>>> Hi, everyone.
>>>> I'm Thea, I just joined the list, and I write all kinds of stuff:
>>>> fiction, nonfiction, and fan fiction. I guess that about covers it,
>>>> eh? I used to publish articles and short stories on www.triond.com
>>>> but
>>>
>>>> they require an image with each submission. I had sighted help for a
>>>> while, but once the sighted help disappeared, I found I could not use
>>>> this site because of its image requirement. It's not a Captcha I have
>>>> to fill in. This site requires, along with the article, your
>>>> selection
>>>
>>>> of a category, which you can choose from a combo
>>>> box: health, news, politics, women ... Then after the body of your
>>>> article, you add tags. Let's say you've chosen "women". Your tags
>>>> could be birth control, birth control devices, IUD, etc. Then there's
>>>> a question mark where a chosen image should go. You hit the "get
>>>> image
>>>
>>>> suggestions" button, and images are supposed to present themselves.
>>>> At this time, you have to be able to see the image and drag it to the
>>>> question mark.
>>>> Last but not least, you have to check the box that says you are the
>>>> original creator of this work, and click submit.
>>>> Piece o' cake ... if you can see.
>>>> Has anyone ever tried or found some way around this difficulty?
>>>> The site is www.triond.com
>>>> My emails to them about this barrier have netted me no response.
>>>> The site is free, and supposedly, you can create a following, if
>>>> you're prolific enough, and you can earn money, be it ever so small.
>>>> I don't mind that. I DO mind this inaccessibility, and the company's
>>>> apparent lack of interest.
>>>> Anyone ever tried this www.triond.com While I had sighted help, I
>>>> published articles and stories, so I have a small portfolio if you
>>>> like.
>>>> Now the sighted help is gone, and I'm stuck.
>>>> Any help appreciated,
>>>> Thea
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> http://writers.nfb.org/
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>> gov
>>
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>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site
>> http://writers.nfb.org/
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>> stylist at nfbnet.org
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>> stylist:
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>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site
> http://writers.nfb.org/
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> stylist:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/thearamsay%40rogers.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site
> http://writers.nfb.org/
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> stylist:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet.net
>

_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site
http://writers.nfb.org/
stylist mailing list
stylist at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
stylist:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/thearamsay%40rogers.com 