[stylist] dividing blind people into groups
Bridgit Pollpeter
bpollpeter at hotmail.com
Sun Mar 16 02:04:22 UTC 2014
I'm with Lynda. Despite losing all my sight, I still think very
visually. I actually don't like touching things, grin, but when
selecting clothes, décor, etc., I am still very visual, and usually have
exactly in mind what I want. Sparkly, glitterly, pretty, tactile or not,
I love it, LOL!
Bridgit
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miss Thea
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2014 8:17 AM
To: Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [stylist] dividing blind people into groups
I like it. Only I will make mine out of fur. All textures, no colors.
Sleek, slinky-smooth fur. This is the land of Touch and See Not. The
land of complete and total
blindness--sensuous blindness.
Thea
-----Original Message-----
From: Lynda Lambert
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2014 6:09 AM
To: Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [stylist] dividing blind people into groups
I do not want to be in a plastic bin! Hmmmm, what are my options? Make
my bin out of soft fiber, in fact, I can knit my own bin. I'll do it in
luscious yarns of orange, yellow, and pinks. Yes, I'll felt it to give
it stability and I'll make a nice lid for it. Oh, certainly, I'll do
encrusted beadworking all over it. It has to be a bin that is glitzy and
sparkly, soft and warm, and smart looking. Nice to the touch! Yes, a
succulent bin will be just perfect! One with no labels on it at all.
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "Applebutter Hill" <applebutterhill at gmail.com>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 9:25 PM
Subject: Re: [stylist] dividing blind people into groups
> Are they plastic bins? Do they come with lids? Can I pick my favorite
> color?
> *grin*
> Donna
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Atty
> Rose
> Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 3:29 PM
> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [stylist] dividing blind people into groups
>
> Put us into bins, I loved that visual!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jacobson, Shawn D" <Shawn.D.Jacobson at hud.gov>
> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 2:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [stylist] dividing blind people into groups
>
>
>> What I remember from the braille school was that there was a pecking
>> order
>
>> by how much you could see. The high partials were generally on top
>> with the totally blind on the bottom. When we had mobility training
>> there were
>
>> the totally blind (Rams) and the partially sighted (Ramblers) and
>> they were in different classes for our mobility milers contest.
>>
>> And then there were the religious differences (mostly Catholic or
>> Protestant or Jewish).
>>
>> Point being, sighted folk will put us into bins according to their
>> own tastes.
>>
>> Shawn
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Atty
>> Rose
>> Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 2:46 PM
>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>> Subject: [stylist] dividing blind people into groups
>>
>> I really don't think I can add anything to Donna's remarks, she said
>> it
>> so
>
>> well. I just want to say that there is power in numbers. I am one of
>> those
>
>> who write letters and call my senators and congress-people.
>> Sometimes when we feel isolated we can feel like we're the only ones,
>> but there is a
>
>> whole vast group of visually impaired people. And even though we
>> don't always
>> agree with one another, we don't have to to stand by one another.
>>
>> Perhaps we have issues with the NFB, but here we are on their list
>> talking
>
>> to people who care about what we say.
>>
>> And if they sent out a notice to call our reps, I'd be dialing away.
>>
>> Change takes time and Scheril is right about fighting for it.
>> Sometimes
>> we
>
>> have to take a rest from the battle. I'm resting right now on the NFB
>> rights thing. I am fortunate to belong to a blind group that doesn't
>> care what you see, what your philosaphies are or your life
>> preferences and so I
>
>> feel content doing all I can for them.
>>
>> The time will come for us to gather a group and approach the upper
>> eshilons of the NFB and speak up again. Maybe we're down but never
>> out.
>>
>> Life is one long adventure!
>> Atty
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" <bpollpeter at hotmail.com>
>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 11:14 PM
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>
>>
>>> Very eloquently said.
>>>
>>> Bridgit
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>> Applebutter Hill
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 11:31 AM
>>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>
>>>
>>> Thea,
>>> I understand your perspective, but I disagree with dividing us up
>>> into sub-groups. All of the examples you gave are still viewed as
>>> blind by the general public. Even more importantly, we are already
>>> the smallest minority; we are what is referred to as a
>>> "low-incidence disability. Because of this and the geographic
>>> separation, we are already in a position of not posing much of a
>>> threat to the public. We aren't out there protesting regularly,
>>> sitting in or even (though I don't recommend this ) throwing rocks.
>>> When the calls come for us to write letters to our elected
>>> officials, sign petitions and the like, a very small percentage of
>>> us actually take action (even if you limit it to the NFB
>>> membership). I know for certain that the subset that is willing to
>>> take the time out of their busy days to sign a petition, put notices
>>> on social media, call Congress, etc. is a diversified group that
>>> includes every category you mention. Dividing ourselves is suicide.
>>>
>>> Also, we are essentially expendable, easily overlooked and our
>>> issues are at the bottom of the pecking order when it comes to
>>> social change.
>>>
>>> The goal is to live in a world where blindness is no more of a
>>> barrier than blonde hair. But, I don't think there are many blind
>>> activists who believe that a person can transition from fully
>>> sighted to blind without a significant input of work, dedication and
>>> perseverance. There is also the shock value of those kind of
>>> proclamations, which is how everyone else does it. And, the fact
>>> that we are discriminated against and that the world isn't opening
>>> its arms to welcome us doesn't diminish the truth that, given the
>>> proper training and a can-do attitude, blind people can and do
>>> flourish despite the barriers imposed by a foolish public. Donna
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miss
>>> Thea
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 2:48 AM
>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>
>>> How the blue blazes can a non-disabled person test for anything
>>> regarding the blind, or any other disability? What are people
>>> smoking these days? Would you, as a blind person, offer to test for
>>> a deaf-user product? Of course you wouldn't. Some people blame
>>> certain things on the militant blind, saying they're the ones who
>>> made it difficult for the rest of us. If blindness is no more than a
>>> nuisance, or a characteristic like blond hair, well then, it
>>> follows. People with blond hair don't use different technology, so
>>> if blindness is truly a mere characteristic like blond hair, as I've
>>> heard at the only NFB convention I ever went to, then why should it
>>> change? We don't need anything. We're rough, tough, independent
>>> blind people. Right?
>>>
>>> I've always considered blindness a major disability. The day it
>>> becomes a mere nuisance or a characteristic like blond hair will be
>>> the day when I can get any job, use any computer, drive a car, read
>>> any type of print including hand writing, and so forth. Till that
>>> day, and especially with websites going backwards instead of
>>> forwards, I'm afraid I disagree with our more militant friends. I'm
>>> not a rough, tough, young independent blind person. I'm on the sunny
>>> side of 50, have illnesses and conditions not related to blindness,
>>> and frankly, I'm having trouble keeping up with all the changes. I'm
>>> doing my best, but the last Windows I liked was Windows XP. Not only
>>> do I remember text-based DOS and the text adventure games I so much
>>> enjoyed, (as an adult in her late twenties), I remember when there
>>> were no such things as computers. I remember when the most exciting
>>> thing I experienced was the Optacon and the talking calculator. I
>>> remember the Braille I read in the 70's, and have no idea why they
>>> need to unify the whole darn Braille code.
>>>
>>> Gays and lesbians for instance, gained the right to marry and put
>>> their spouse under their health insurance at work, and be the next
>>> of kin when an emergency happened, and now have many rights they
>>> didn't when I was growing up, because they fought for the same
>>> things, and they fought in force. One of the complaints I've heard
>>> is that the blind community is too busy fighting among themselves
>>> and spending their energies whining, etc. The problem with blindness
>>> is that it's a continuum, not just one condition. Let's say Al's
>>> totally blind, never so much as seen light, while Tyler sees light
>>> and shadows and therefore probably has better mobility. Tessa can
>>> see enough to read large print, while Bill can do everything but
>>> drive. That's all lumped under the general category of blindness.
>>> Oh, then there's blind-plus. I.E. Lucy's deaf-blind, Samantha's
>>> partially blind and partially deaf, and Tiny Tim there, not only
>>> uses a wheelchair but is stone cold blind. How does one community
>>> address all these needs? Why should the guy who can do everything
>>> but drive care about the guy who's never so much as seen light?
>>> These men perceive the world totally differently, and their needs
>>> are different. I think lumping everyone into the "blindness"
>>> community may be filling a small boat with more people than it can
>>> handle. I propose the idea that there is a blind community, a
>>> partially sighted community, and a blind-plus community. The blind
>>> community would comprise totals and those who have so little vision,
>>> it's not useful to them. Anyway, if we could sort ourselves out,
>>> decide what we need, and go after it in force, we could end up
>>> getting what we want, couldn't we? Sure, there are more LGBT people
>>> than there are blind people, but I'm sure the LGBT community had to
>>> work out differences, too. Bisexuals had different needs than
>>> transgenders, etc. Anyway, that's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
Thea -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 12:15 AM
>>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>
>>> Donna,
>>>
>>> I never thought of this but you're absolutely correct. Buildings
>>> legally must have so many accessible entrances and bathrooms, but
>>> when it comes to blind accessibility, it's often lacking. Why are
>>> legal standards expected for one disability but not another?
>>> Websites and technology should have to adhere to certain standards,
>>> and yes, actual blind users should be the testers. I get so tired of
>>> non-disabled people doing the work, not thinking they need people
>>> with a given disability to test, comment and assist.
>>>
>>> Bridgit
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>> Applebutter Hill
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 4:19 PM
>>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>
>>>
>>> Jim,
>>> I know what you mean. Getting the most out of our screen readers is
>>> a lot of hard work, because every site is different. It can be
>>> exceptionally frustrating to spend hours trying to get something
>>> done that we know a sighted person can do in ten minutes.
>>> Nevertheless, it is what it is, and it's possible to get a lot
>>> further than many screen reader users get. I get aggravated when
>>> blind people ask me to provide them with a web address, when they
>>> can Google it in the same amount of time as I can. It feels
>>> sometimes like they don't realize that I had to go through the same
>>> grueling and aggravating process they are trying to avoid to get the
>>> knowledge I have and that I have to continue struggling every day
>>> despite the stress of it, because it's the only way I can get
>>> anywhere.
>>>
>>> On the other hand, people who want to build a hospital want their
>>> building to be accessible to everyone too, and they don't know how
>>> to do it either. The difference is that the architects of brick and
>>> mortor facilities have to meet standards which are scrutinized by
>>> licensing officials prior to one brick being laid. Website
>>> designers, whose jobs involve putting 1s and0s in the right places,
>>> are on their own. They either don't consider accessibility or they
>>> hire someone to test the accessibility who is not a user of the
>>> adaptive software on a regular basis. It's difficult to force
>>> yourself to not notice things if you can see them, and difficult to
>>> be conscious of when your sight has influenced something you do with
>>> the screen reader. IMO, websites should be tested for accessibility
>>> by blind people and some of them should have average screen reader
>>> skills.
>>>
>>> Also, there are other accessibility issues in addition to screen
>>> readers. Sites need to work for people using magnification and voice
>>> recognition as well. Donna
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>> Homme, James
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 8:16 AM
>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>> I do accessibility work a lot. In my experience, most people want to
>>> make their stuff accessible. They just don't know what accessibility
>>> is, or how it affects people with disabilities. Most people assume,
>>> naturally enough, that whoever wants to can simply just use their
>>> stuff. And one of my pet peeves is when someone who should know how
>>> to use their screen reader better complains that something is
>>> inaccessible, because they don't want to take the time to use the
>>> help available to them. We make ourselves look bad when this
>>> happens.
>>>
>>> Sorry. I'm a little cranky today. I need to do my journaling.
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miss
>>> Thea
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 2:43 PM
>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>
>>> Think I'll document my experiences with Triond on my new blog, then
>>> spread it on Social Media like butter on bread. Hahahaha. Thea
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Atty Rose
>>> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 11:33 AM
>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>
>>> Hi Thea,
>>>
>>> Welcome. I get so frustrated when this happens. If writing letters
>>> isn't working and there is no phone, all you can do really put a
>>> claim against them, or have all your blind friends write them too. I
>>> always write a letter if I run into issues. Even if nothing happens
>>> I stand up for our comunity. Sometimes it works great! Sometimes I
>>> get nothing back.
>>>
>>> All you can do is your best!
>>>
>>> Well met,
>>> Atty
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Miss Thea" <thearamsay at rogers.com>
>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 3:45 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi, Donna.
>>>> There is a place where you can upload photos, but it is still
>>>> inaccessible, as you have to drag and drop images.
>>>>
>>>> All I want is my name in print--a hardcover or paperback with my
>>>> John Hancock and a great story inside, that people can get lost in.
>>>> I don't
>>>
>>>> mind doing the work; I don't mind doing hard work. But I DO mind
>>>> wasting my time, and there's not even a way for me to express my
>>>> displeasure by cancelling my account. I guess I could just let it
>>>> go, and concentrate on the things I can do, which is why I'm here.
>>>> Nice to
>>>
>>>> meet you, too. Thea
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Applebutter Hill
>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2014 8:11 PM
>>>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>>
>>>> Hi Thea,
>>>> Welcome to Stylist. I wrote for a bunch of online magazines for
>>>> years,
>>>
>>>> but not this one. I'm thinking of a couple of things.
>>>>
>>>> First, what would a person do if they had their own photos? Is
>>>> there an uploader? It seems bogus that they would force people to
>>>> pick and choose from stock photos and not have an option to upload
>>>> photos of their
>>> own.
>>>>
>>>> I'm saying this, because, if there is an uploader that you can use,
>>>> there are sites where you can get free, high quality photos that
>>>> you could download and then upload to this site. The captions are
>>>> usually clear enough to get the idea what the photo is, and as long
>>>> as you credit the photographer or the group, you can use them
>>>> without fear.
>>>>
>>>> As far as your efforts to bring this to the attention of the site
>>>> go, it is something we need to do, but it rarely results in
>>>> positive changes. I used to write for Suite 101, which had revenue
>>>> sharing and required a photo with each article. It was accessible
>>>> until they re designed their site. I wrote to them many times, and
>>>> I was assured that accessibility was a priority for them. They even
>>>> asked me to do beta testing on the new site, which I did. Nothing
>>>> ever changed. Ultimately they dropped their journalistic standards,
>>>> such as they were, and at that point, I really wasn't interested in
>>>> writing for them anyway.
>>>>
>>>> Suite 101 is a Canadian company, so they don't fall under our laws.
>>>> But, the laws we have in the US are not being enforced even on
>>>> government websites. The irony to me was that when Suite 101
>>>> started becoming less accessible, I was in the midst of writing a
>>>> series of articles on web accessibility.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, it's nice to meet you, and I look forward to getting to
>>>> know you. Donna
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miss
>>>> Thea
>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2014 5:36 PM
>>>> To: stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> Subject: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>>
>>>> Hi, everyone.
>>>> I'm Thea, I just joined the list, and I write all kinds of stuff:
>>>> fiction, nonfiction, and fan fiction. I guess that about covers it,
>>>> eh? I used to publish articles and short stories on www.triond.com
>>>> but
>>>
>>>> they require an image with each submission. I had sighted help for
>>>> a while, but once the sighted help disappeared, I found I could not
>>>> use this site because of its image requirement. It's not a Captcha
>>>> I have to fill in. This site requires, along with the article, your
>>>> selection
>>>
>>>> of a category, which you can choose from a combo
>>>> box: health, news, politics, women ... Then after the body of your
>>>> article, you add tags. Let's say you've chosen "women". Your tags
>>>> could be birth control, birth control devices, IUD, etc. Then
>>>> there's a question mark where a chosen image should go. You hit the
>>>> "get image
>>>
>>>> suggestions" button, and images are supposed to present themselves.
>>>> At this time, you have to be able to see the image and drag it to
>>>> the question mark. Last but not least, you have to check the box
>>>> that says you are the original creator of this work, and click
>>>> submit. Piece o' cake ... if you can see.
>>>> Has anyone ever tried or found some way around this difficulty?
>>>> The site is www.triond.com
>>>> My emails to them about this barrier have netted me no response.
>>>> The site is free, and supposedly, you can create a following, if
>>>> you're prolific enough, and you can earn money, be it ever so
small.
>>>> I don't mind that. I DO mind this inaccessibility, and the
company's
>>>> apparent lack of interest.
>>>> Anyone ever tried this www.triond.com
>>>> While I had sighted help, I published articles and stories, so I
have
>>>> a small portfolio if you like.
>>>> Now the sighted help is gone, and I'm stuck.
>>>> Any help appreciated,
>>>> Thea
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>
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