[stylist] dividing blind people into groups

[Bridgit Pollpeter]

With most disabilities, it's about learning how to adapt and moving
forward. It's not about heroism or bravery, and we certainly are not
exceptional. Most humans have the ability to adapt, learn and grow.
Living with a disability is this straight forward and simple as this.
Every time I hear how amazing I am for doing the most mundane, routine
thing, I cringe. I'm constantly trying to explain this concept, but most
can't accept it.

We are all at different levels of ability, disabled or not. While I do
believe in challenging one another and definitely promote the use of
nonvisual tools, I also am of the opinion that we shouldn't judge or
negatively criticize. There's a time and place for every thing and a way
in which to challenge people. And ultimately, until we actually live
inside a person, we don't completely know their unique situation.

I encourage you to learn Braille; it's a very handy and useful tool for
the blind. I learned the entire code in four months, though I did have
the advantage of learning it while training at the Iowa Department for
the Blind, so I had no other distractions or things to deal with .
Nonetheless, one can learn it. I do not read it very quickly though, but
it is helpful to label things and read Braille books to my son.

At the end of the day though, it's about being the most efficient person
you can be. If that's with the aid of nonvisual tools like Braille, it
just means you have more tools in your tool box in which to use; if it's
without nonvisual tools, and you're able to live independently and
efficiently, great, no problem. I don't think we need feel guilty
because we don't have or use the exact same tools and methods as others.
Though again, we also need to challenge one another and strive to have
as many tools at our disposable as possible.

Bridgit

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of William L
Houts
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 8:58 AM
To: stylist at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [stylist] dividing blind people into groups


HI Brigit,

Of all the philosophies I've read since joining this group, yours comes 
closest to what I experience, though our lives are very different.  When

people  so kindly go on about how courageous I am  ----you know that 
drill, I'm sure-- I always respond something like, well, it's not so 
much a matter of courage as it is of necessity.  When it happened  to 
me, I spent LOTS of time in a seemingly unshakeable state of sorrow and 
rage.  But when you've been  in that state for a while, you realize that

states of sorrow and rage aren't paying the piper and you move on to 
something more interesting.  It's not heroic at all, from my point of 
view, it's more like physics; it's gravity and you have to settle on 
earth once again and figure out how you're going to lead a productive 
life, blind or not. Books on tape were the first thing I encountered 
which told me that all was not lost, and I moved on from there.  I THINK

JAWS came next.   To this day, I admit, I'm not the most well-adapted 
blind guy in the world;  when I read of your experiences, you good 
people, I sometimes think what a silly billy I am.  I still don't know 
Braille, for instance, and I have peripheral vision so I don't wear 
shades in order to spare sighted people the googly eye thing. But as 
Rolf the dog says, I'm no Heifetz, but I get by.


--Bill









On 3/16/2014 8:58 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote:
> My husband was born with RP but didn't notice vision problems until 
> age 11, but with glasses, it was corrected. He always had night 
> blindness, but it wasn't until he went to university that he started 
> developing true problems. He struggled with diminishing sight for a 
> time before seeking training to learn Braille, white cane, assistive 
> tech and all that jazz. I think he was 20 or 21 by this point.
>
> I had full use of my sight until the age of 22. Ross and I met when I 
> was 23 and he was 24. I was just starting to learn blindness skills.
>
> When we met, we shook hands, and I literally felt a current of 
> electricity. I had been in love before, but never felt quite the way I

> did when I met Ross. I typically would be skeptical of stories like 
> this, and still am, but we were engaged within 2-1/2 months and 
> married 10 months later. We have been married 8-1/2 years and known 
> each other almost ten years, and so far, we aren't tired of one 
> another yet, grin.
>
> He struggled more with his vision loss than I did, though he adapted 
> very quickly once he went through training. Like I said, between my 
> illness and some other experiences in life, blindness wasn't the worse

> thing I ever dealt with. And long before I knew about training or the 
> NFB or philosophies of blindness, I adopted a positive attitude and 
> knew my life wasn't over. When people told me I couldn't do something,

> I set a path to prove them wrong. When I learned of the opportunity to

> go train and learn blindness skills, I jumped at it. Later, when I was

> introduced to the Federation, I was surprised to find other people and

> an entire organization with a similar philosophy towards blindness as 
> mine. I'm not always on board with NFB decisions or the direction the 
> organization takes, but at its heart is this progressive, independent 
> view on blindness that I grafted into my own life.
>
> My husband and I have had some amazing opportunities too since meeting

> one another. We both were in the middle of finishing university when 
> we met, and we both graduated, though from different universities and 
> he two years before I did, grin. Obviously, we married. After I 
> graduated three years ago, we decided to try for a child of our own. I

> was applying for jobs, not expecting to become pregers easily, but 
> within two months of trying, I was, smile. Years earlier though, I 
> think I was 26 or so, The Nebraska Medical Center featured me in its 
> 1001 Publication magazine a few years ago, and as a result of that, I 
> was hired to participate in the Med Center's 2009 campaign where I 
> filmed TV and radio commercials and participated in speaking 
> engagements advertising and discussing the diabetes clinic. As a 
> result of this campaign, the Omaha World Herald hired me to blog for 
> its Live Well website, which I did for almost three years. I blogged 
> about blindness and diabetes. When Declan, our son, was 6 months old, 
> we were asked to film a professional You Tube video to advertise the 
> Med Center again. And just last November, Ross, Declan and I were 
> featured on the prime-time news for a local TV station during Diabetes

> Awareness week. Four months later, people are still recognizing us 
> when we go out. Throughout all this, I've been asked to do various 
> speaking engagements locally, and I've had a few essays and memoir 
> pieces published, most recently, an essay in an anthology titled 13th 
> Floor. The piece is about bullying and suicide. The anthology is 
> available for Kindel, which is accessible with the Kindel app, but I 
> can post it for anyone interested.
>
> My life has taken a vastly different path than I ever expected, but so

> much has happened since I lost my sight, most good. In some ways, my 
> blindness encourages me to go out there and do something, make a 
> difference, prove I'm more than my blindness. I would love to have 
> sight back, and yes it's very inconvenient at times, but I'm not less 
> capable of anything compared to most sighted people I know. I know 
> that despite any inconvenience to my life, blindness doesn't have to 
> be a ruling factor determining my success.
>
> My husband is employed full-time, and while I choose to be a 
> stay-at-home mom, I hope to make some money from writing some day. We 
> live on our own in a house we just bought a year-and-a-half ago and we

> have an adorable little boy. Life is not perfect and we have our ups 
> and downs, but blindness has proven to not be a reason to not move 
> forward, pursuing our dreams and goals.
>
> When Declan was born, after not having any issues during pregnancy, at

> least for Little Man, (I myself had a rough pregnancy, smile)he spent 
> six weeks in the NICU because of an unidentifiable infection. We 
> really didn't know if he would make it at first. For a 
> week-and-a-half, I didn't eat, sleep, I just sat by his islet chamber.

> It was by far the worse, most difficult thing I've ever endured. Once 
> he got better, it took him almost five months before he could eat 
> orally. No reason, no medical condition, he just couldn't, or 
> wouldn't, eat orally. We had to bring him home with an implanted 
> feeding tube in his tummy. Now at 18 months, you wouldn't know the kid

> ever had anything wrong, and he has no issue eating now, but I never, 
> never forget that time. I still cry about it for some reason.
>
> I've learned to look at the glass half full in my life. To be as 
> positive as I can, which can be difficult because I'm naturally 
> inclined towards cynicism. I've experienced abuse, extreme loneliness,

> dealt with type one diabetes since the age of four, depression, 
> anorexia, life-threatening situations more than once in life, 
> blindness... I honestly don't have the energy to be negative, and I 
> don't want my child to learn to be negative because of me.
>
> So no, while I don't enjoy blindness and would definitely love to be 
> sighted again, I don't feel rage or hatred. I find myself questioning 
> why society can't understand that blindness isn't as big of a deal as 
> they make it out to be than I question blindness itself.
>
> Bridgit
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miss 
> Thea
> Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2014 7:52 PM
> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [stylist] dividing blind people into groups
>
>
> You and your hubby lost your sight at roughly the same time? Or did he

> lose it before you?
> I was born this way, never saw a thing, and I've still known
rock-bottom
>
> rage about my blindness.
> You'd think I wouldn't, but it's true, I have.
> I have felt cheated of the things I can't understand, plus others' 
> impressions of me really bug me, when the impressions are negative. 
> Then again, rage is just an emotion I experience, so I guess that's 
> part of it. I'd struggle with that emotion whether I was blind or not.

> Certainly, my son does--or did, when I lived with the family at the 
> house. Thea -----Original Message-----
> From: Bridgit Pollpeter
> Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2014 11:18 PM
> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [stylist] dividing blind people into groups
>
> I was sighted until the age of 22. I lost my sight through a viral 
> infection, pneumonia and uraceptus all at the same time. At one point,

> my parents were told to prepare for my death. The meds weren't 
> working, and my organs were shutting down. Obviously I'm alive and 
> well, but I did lose my sight as a result.
>
> I think because of my experience, I've never gone through the rage or 
> depression I hear many go through when losing sight. At first, the 
> loss was gradual. Things just looked like an Impressionist painting, a

> little fuzzy around the edges, but I could see relatively well. Within

> a year though, I lost it all except light perception and I can see 
> shadowy movement. But since I almost died and didn't, I think this has

> always stoppered some of those initial emotions most go through.
>
> This doesn't mean I enjoyed losing my sight or it was easy, but I just

> haven't struggled the way many have, including my husband. He went 
> through a point where blindness was just the worse thing he could 
> imagine, and I've never understood this position. Blindness has always

> been low on my list of worse things.
>
> Actually, I didn't really have feelings of hate towards my blindness 
> until my son was born, oddly. I just want to experience the world he 
> does, when he does, and I want to see him. Nonetheless, my burdens 
> come more from how others view my blindness then me feeling it holds 
> me back or limits me.
>
> I also have visual memories  of things I haven't actually seen. 
> Personal moments, films, pictures, I retain visual memories as though 
> I saw them, and they typically are the same visual each time I think 
> of a given thing. Not sure if others experience this too.
>
> So yes, I understand the world visually as well as tactilely, and I 
> still am very much a visual person.
>
> I wear make-up and usually know what look I'm going for depending on 
> what I wear. I shop only with my mom or sister because I know their 
> sense of fashion and trust them. I buy clothes based on how they look 
> on me as opposed as to how they feel. Even my pajamas have to go 
> together or my yoga clothes, grin. Nothing mismatched; no plaid with 
> polkadots or burnt red with pastel pink, smile. I also am very 
> involved in how my home décor looks visually. I have the advantage of 
> understanding colors and patterns and styles, so I not only know what 
> I want, but understand most visual descriptions of items.
>
> I've never been a fan of touching things, so that sucks, grin. And I 
> also have a small fear of germs, so touching isn't a great experience 
> for me. Ross and I lived in this apartment when we were first married,

> and the kitchen cupboards had this texture, and I couldn't stand to 
> touch it. The texture for some reason grossed me out. Visually, I was 
> told it looked fine, but when touching, it had rough bumps. I had to 
> use a towel or something to open, LOL! I also hate touching things out

> in public because I instantly feel dirty. Okay, I'm officially crazy, 
> smile.
>
> Bridgit
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miss 
> Thea
> Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2014 9:15 PM
> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [stylist] dividing blind people into groups
>
>
> Hi, Bridgit. I'm as blind as it gets and always have been.
> I totally don't understand color, depth perception, or even light. I'm

> the blindest of the blind, LOL, and am therefore, a touch freak. I 
> often wonder what it would be like to live in a city with people just 
> like me--people who've never seen a speck of light, maybe even have 
> prosthetic eyes. What would it be like to live in a city where 
> everyone was not only totally blind, no light perception, but who had 
> been born that way. How would we run government? What laws would be 
> enforced? What sort of culture would be uniquely ours? I wonder what 
> such a community would be like. Thea -----Original Message-----
> From: Bridgit Pollpeter
> Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2014 10:04 PM
> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [stylist] dividing blind people into groups
>
> I'm with Lynda. Despite losing all my sight, I still think very 
> visually. I actually don't like touching things, grin, but when 
> selecting clothes, décor, etc., I am still very visual, and usually 
> have exactly in mind what I want. Sparkly, glitterly, pretty, tactile 
> or not, I love it, LOL!
>
> Bridgit
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miss 
> Thea
> Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2014 8:17 AM
> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [stylist] dividing blind people into groups
>
>
> I like it. Only I will make mine out of fur. All textures, no colors. 
> Sleek, slinky-smooth fur. This is the land of Touch and See Not. The 
> land of complete and total blindness--sensuous blindness. Thea
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lynda Lambert
> Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2014 6:09 AM
> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [stylist] dividing blind people into groups
>
> I do not want to be in a plastic bin! Hmmmm, what are my options? Make

> my bin out of soft fiber, in fact, I can knit my own bin. I'll do it 
> in luscious yarns of orange, yellow, and pinks.  Yes, I'll felt it to 
> give it stability and I'll make a nice lid for it. Oh, certainly, I'll

> do encrusted beadworking all over it. It has to be a bin that is 
> glitzy and sparkly, soft and warm, and smart looking. Nice to the 
> touch! Yes, a succulent bin will be just perfect! One with no labels 
> on it at all.
>
> Lynda
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Applebutter Hill" <applebutterhill at gmail.com>
> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 9:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [stylist] dividing blind people into groups
>
>
>> Are they plastic bins? Do they come with lids? Can I pick my favorite

>> color?
>> *grin*
>> Donna
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Atty 
>> Rose
>> Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 3:29 PM
>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] dividing blind people into groups
>>
>> Put us into bins, I loved that visual!
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jacobson, Shawn D" <Shawn.D.Jacobson at hud.gov>
>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 2:13 PM
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] dividing blind people into groups
>>
>>
>>> What I remember from the braille school was that there was a pecking

>>> order by how much you could see.  The high partials were generally 
>>> on top with the totally blind on the bottom.  When we had mobility 
>>> training there were
>>> the totally blind (Rams) and the partially sighted (Ramblers) and
>>> they were in different classes for our mobility milers contest.
>>>
>>> And then there were the religious differences (mostly Catholic or 
>>> Protestant or Jewish).
>>>
>>> Point being, sighted folk will put us into bins according to their 
>>> own tastes.
>>>
>>> Shawn
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Atty 
>>> Rose
>>> Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 2:46 PM
>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>> Subject: [stylist] dividing blind people into groups
>>>
>>> I really don't think I can add anything to Donna's remarks, she said

>>> it so well. I just want to say that there is power in numbers. I am 
>>> one of those
>>> who write letters and call my senators and congress-people.
Sometimes
>>> when we feel isolated we can feel like we're the only ones,
>>> but there is a
>>> whole vast group of visually impaired people. And even though we
>>> don't always
>>> agree   with one another, we don't have to to stand by one another.
>>>
>>> Perhaps we have issues with the NFB, but here we are on their list 
>>> talking to people who care about what we say.
>>>
>>> And if they sent out a notice to call our reps, I'd be dialing away.
>>>
>>> Change takes time and Scheril is right about fighting for it. 
>>> Sometimes we have to take a rest from the battle. I'm resting right 
>>> now on the NFB rights thing. I am fortunate to belong to a blind 
>>> group that doesn't care what you see, what your philosaphies are or 
>>> your life preferences and so I
>>> feel content doing all I can for them.
>>>
>>> The time will come for us to gather a group and approach the upper 
>>> eshilons of the NFB and speak up again. Maybe we're down but never 
>>> out.
>>>
>>> Life is one long adventure!
>>> Atty
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" <bpollpeter at hotmail.com>
>>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 11:14 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>
>>>
>>>> Very eloquently said.
>>>>
>>>> Bridgit
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
>>>> Applebutter Hill
>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 11:31 AM
>>>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thea,
>>>> I understand your perspective, but I disagree with dividing us up 
>>>> into sub-groups. All of the examples you gave are still viewed as 
>>>> blind by the general public. Even more importantly, we are already 
>>>> the smallest minority; we are what is referred to as a 
>>>> "low-incidence disability. Because of this and the geographic 
>>>> separation, we are already in a position of not posing much of a 
>>>> threat to the public. We aren't out there protesting regularly, 
>>>> sitting in or even (though I don't recommend this ) throwing rocks.

>>>> When the calls come for us to write letters to our elected 
>>>> officials, sign petitions and the like, a very small percentage of 
>>>> us actually take action (even if you limit it to the NFB 
>>>> membership). I know for certain that the subset that is willing to 
>>>> take the time out of their busy days to sign a petition, put 
>>>> notices on social media, call Congress, etc. is a diversified group

>>>> that includes every category you mention. Dividing ourselves is 
>>>> suicide.
>>>>
>>>> Also, we are essentially expendable, easily overlooked and our 
>>>> issues are at the bottom of the pecking order when it comes to 
>>>> social change.
>>>>
>>>> The goal is to live in a world where blindness is no more of a 
>>>> barrier than blonde hair. But, I don't think there are many blind 
>>>> activists who believe that a person can transition from fully 
>>>> sighted to blind without a significant input of work, dedication 
>>>> and perseverance. There is also the shock value of those kind of 
>>>> proclamations, which is how everyone else does it. And, the fact 
>>>> that we are discriminated against and that the world isn't opening 
>>>> its arms to welcome us doesn't diminish the truth that, given the 
>>>> proper training and a can-do attitude, blind people can and do 
>>>> flourish despite the barriers imposed by a foolish public. Donna
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miss

>>>> Thea
>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 2:48 AM
>>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>>
>>>> How the blue blazes can a non-disabled person test for anything 
>>>> regarding the blind, or any other disability? What are people 
>>>> smoking these days? Would you, as a blind person, offer to test for

>>>> a deaf-user product? Of course you wouldn't. Some people blame 
>>>> certain things on the militant blind, saying they're the ones who 
>>>> made it difficult for the rest of us. If blindness is no more than 
>>>> a nuisance, or a characteristic like blond hair, well then, it 
>>>> follows. People with blond hair don't use different technology, so 
>>>> if blindness is truly a mere characteristic like blond hair, as 
>>>> I've heard at the only NFB convention I ever went to, then why 
>>>> should it change? We don't need anything. We're rough, tough, 
>>>> independent blind people. Right?
>>>>
>>>> I've always considered blindness a major disability. The day it 
>>>> becomes a mere nuisance or a characteristic like blond hair will be

>>>> the day when I can get any job, use any computer, drive a car, read

>>>> any type of print including hand writing, and so forth. Till that 
>>>> day, and especially with websites going backwards instead of 
>>>> forwards, I'm afraid I disagree with our more militant friends. I'm

>>>> not a rough, tough, young independent blind person. I'm on the 
>>>> sunny side of 50, have illnesses and conditions not related to 
>>>> blindness, and frankly, I'm having trouble keeping up with all the 
>>>> changes. I'm doing my best, but the last Windows I liked was 
>>>> Windows XP. Not only do I remember text-based DOS and the text 
>>>> adventure games I so much enjoyed, (as an adult in her late 
>>>> twenties), I remember when there were no such things as computers. 
>>>> I remember when the most exciting thing I experienced was the 
>>>> Optacon and the talking calculator. I remember the Braille I read 
>>>> in the 70's, and have no idea why they need to unify the whole darn

>>>> Braille code.
>>>>
>>>> Gays and lesbians for instance, gained the right to marry and put 
>>>> their spouse under their health insurance at work, and be the next 
>>>> of kin when an emergency happened, and now have many rights they 
>>>> didn't when I was growing up, because they fought for the same 
>>>> things, and they fought in force. One of the complaints I've heard 
>>>> is that the blind community is too busy fighting among themselves 
>>>> and spending their energies whining, etc. The problem with 
>>>> blindness is that it's a continuum, not just one condition. Let's 
>>>> say Al's totally blind, never so much as seen light, while Tyler 
>>>> sees light and shadows and therefore probably has better mobility. 
>>>> Tessa can see enough to read large print, while Bill can do 
>>>> everything but drive. That's all lumped under the general category 
>>>> of blindness. Oh, then there's blind-plus. I.E. Lucy's deaf-blind, 
>>>> Samantha's partially blind and partially deaf, and Tiny Tim there, 
>>>> not only uses a wheelchair but is stone cold blind. How does one 
>>>> community address all these needs? Why should the guy who can do 
>>>> everything but drive care about the guy who's never so much as seen

>>>> light? These men perceive the world totally differently, and their 
>>>> needs are different. I think lumping everyone into the "blindness" 
>>>> community may be filling a small boat with more people than it can 
>>>> handle. I propose the idea that there is a blind community, a 
>>>> partially sighted community, and a blind-plus community. The blind 
>>>> community would comprise totals and those who have so little 
>>>> vision, it's not useful to them. Anyway, if we could sort ourselves

>>>> out, decide what we need, and go after it in force, we could end up

>>>> getting what we want, couldn't we? Sure, there are more LGBT people

>>>> than there are blind people, but I'm sure the LGBT community had to

>>>> work out differences, too. Bisexuals had different needs than 
>>>> transgenders, etc. Anyway, that's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
> Thea -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter
>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 12:15 AM
>>>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>>
>>>> Donna,
>>>>
>>>> I never thought of this but you're absolutely correct. Buildings 
>>>> legally must have so many accessible entrances and bathrooms, but 
>>>> when it comes to blind accessibility, it's often lacking. Why are 
>>>> legal standards expected for one disability but not another? 
>>>> Websites and technology should have to adhere to certain standards,

>>>> and yes, actual blind users should be the testers. I get so tired 
>>>> of non-disabled people doing the work, not thinking they need 
>>>> people with a given disability to test, comment and assist.
>>>>
>>>> Bridgit
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
>>>> Applebutter Hill
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 4:19 PM
>>>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jim,
>>>> I know what you mean. Getting the most out of our screen readers is

>>>> a lot of hard work, because every site is different. It can be 
>>>> exceptionally frustrating to spend hours trying to get something 
>>>> done that we know a sighted person can do in ten minutes. 
>>>> Nevertheless, it is what it is, and it's possible to get a lot 
>>>> further than many screen reader users get. I get aggravated when 
>>>> blind people ask me to provide them with a web address, when they 
>>>> can Google it in the same amount of time as I can. It feels 
>>>> sometimes like they don't realize that I had to go through the same

>>>> grueling and aggravating process they are trying to avoid to get 
>>>> the knowledge I have and that I have to continue struggling every 
>>>> day despite the stress of it, because it's the only way I can get 
>>>> anywhere.
>>>>
>>>> On the other hand, people who want to build a hospital want their 
>>>> building to be accessible to everyone too, and they don't know how 
>>>> to do it either. The difference is that the architects of brick and

>>>> mortor facilities have to meet standards which are scrutinized by 
>>>> licensing officials prior to one brick being laid. Website 
>>>> designers, whose jobs involve putting 1s and0s in the right places,

>>>> are on their own. They either don't consider accessibility or they 
>>>> hire someone to test the accessibility who is not a user of the 
>>>> adaptive software on a regular basis. It's difficult to force 
>>>> yourself to not notice things if you can see them, and difficult to

>>>> be conscious of when your sight has influenced something you do 
>>>> with the screen reader. IMO, websites should be tested for 
>>>> accessibility by blind people and some of them should have average 
>>>> screen reader skills.
>>>>
>>>> Also, there are other accessibility issues in addition to screen 
>>>> readers. Sites need to work for people using magnification and 
>>>> voice recognition as well. Donna
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
>>>> Homme, James
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 8:16 AM
>>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>> I do accessibility work a lot. In my experience, most people want 
>>>> to make their stuff accessible. They just don't know what 
>>>> accessibility is, or how it affects people with disabilities. Most 
>>>> people assume, naturally enough, that whoever wants to can simply 
>>>> just use their stuff. And one of my pet peeves is when someone who 
>>>> should know how to use their screen reader better complains that 
>>>> something is inaccessible, because they don't want to take the time

>>>> to use the help available to them. We make ourselves look bad when 
>>>> this happens.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry. I'm a little cranky today. I need to do my journaling.
>>>>
>>>> Jim
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miss

>>>> Thea
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 2:43 PM
>>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>>
>>>> Think I'll document my experiences with Triond on my new blog, then

>>>> spread it on Social Media like butter on bread. Hahahaha. Thea
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Atty Rose
>>>> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 11:33 AM
>>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>>
>>>> Hi Thea,
>>>>
>>>> Welcome. I get so frustrated when this happens. If writing letters 
>>>> isn't working and there is no phone, all you can do really put a 
>>>> claim against them, or have all your blind friends write them too. 
>>>> I always write a letter if I run into issues. Even if nothing 
>>>> happens I stand up for our comunity. Sometimes it works great! 
>>>> Sometimes I get nothing back.
>>>>
>>>> All you can do is your best!
>>>>
>>>> Well met,
>>>> Atty
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Miss Thea" <thearamsay at rogers.com>
>>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 3:45 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi, Donna.
>>>>> There is a place where you can upload photos, but it is still 
>>>>> inaccessible, as you have to drag and drop images.
>>>>>
>>>>> All I want is my name in print--a hardcover or paperback with my 
>>>>> John Hancock and a great story inside, that people can get lost 
>>>>> in. I don't mind doing the work; I don't mind doing hard work. But

>>>>> I DO mind wasting my time, and there's not even a way for me to 
>>>>> express my displeasure by cancelling my account. I guess I could 
>>>>> just let it go, and concentrate on the things I can do, which is 
>>>>> why I'm here. Nice to
>>>>> meet you, too. Thea
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Applebutter Hill
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2014 8:11 PM
>>>>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Thea,
>>>>> Welcome to Stylist. I wrote for a bunch of online magazines for 
>>>>> years, but not this one. I'm thinking of a couple of things.
>>>>>
>>>>> First, what would a person do if they had their own photos? Is 
>>>>> there an uploader? It seems bogus that they would force people to 
>>>>> pick and choose from stock photos and not have an option to upload

>>>>> photos of their
>>>> own.
>>>>> I'm saying this, because, if there is an uploader that you can 
>>>>> use, there are sites where you can get free, high quality photos 
>>>>> that you could download and then upload to this site. The captions

>>>>> are usually clear enough to get the idea what the photo is, and as

>>>>> long as you credit the photographer or the group, you can use them

>>>>> without fear.
>>>>>
>>>>> As far as your efforts to bring this to the attention of the site 
>>>>> go, it is something we need to do, but it rarely results in 
>>>>> positive changes. I used to write for Suite 101, which had revenue

>>>>> sharing and required a photo with each article. It was accessible 
>>>>> until they re designed their site. I wrote to them many times, and

>>>>> I was assured that accessibility was a priority for them. They 
>>>>> even asked me to do beta testing on the new site, which I did. 
>>>>> Nothing ever changed. Ultimately they dropped their journalistic 
>>>>> standards, such as they were, and at that point, I really wasn't 
>>>>> interested in writing for them anyway.
>>>>>
>>>>> Suite 101 is a Canadian company, so they don't fall under our 
>>>>> laws. But, the laws we have in the US are not being enforced even 
>>>>> on government websites. The irony to me was that when Suite 101 
>>>>> started becoming less accessible, I was in the midst of writing a 
>>>>> series of articles on web accessibility.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, it's nice to meet you, and I look forward to getting to 
>>>>> know you. Donna
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
>>>>> Miss Thea
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2014 5:36 PM
>>>>> To: stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Subject: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi, everyone.
>>>>> I'm Thea, I just joined the list, and I write all kinds of stuff: 
>>>>> fiction, nonfiction, and fan fiction. I guess that about covers 
>>>>> it, eh? I used to publish articles and short stories on 
>>>>> www.triond.com but they require an image with each submission. I 
>>>>> had sighted help for a while, but once the sighted help 
>>>>> disappeared, I found I could not use this site because of its 
>>>>> image requirement. It's not a Captcha I have to fill in. This site

>>>>> requires, along with the article, your selection
>>>>> of a category, which you can choose from a combo
>>>>> box: health, news, politics, women ... Then after the body of your
>>>>> article, you add tags. Let's say you've chosen "women". Your tags
>>>>> could be birth control, birth control devices, IUD, etc. Then
>>>>> there's a question mark where a chosen image should go. You hit
the
>>>>> "get image
>>>>> suggestions" button, and images are supposed to present
themselves.
>>>>> At this time, you have to be able to see the image and drag it to
>>>>> the question mark. Last but not least, you have to check the box
>>>>> that says you are the original creator of this work, and click
>>>>> submit. Piece o' cake ... if you can see. Has anyone ever tried or
>>>>> found some way around this difficulty? The site is www.triond.com
>>>>> My emails to them about this barrier have netted me no response.
>>>>> The site is free, and supposedly, you can create a following, if
>>>>> you're prolific enough, and you can earn money, be it ever so
> small.
>>>>> I don't mind that. I DO mind this inaccessibility, and the
> company's
>>>>> apparent lack of interest.
>>>>> Anyone ever tried this www.triond.com
>>>>> While I had sighted help, I published articles and stories, so I
> have
>>>>> a small portfolio if you like.
>>>>> Now the sighted help is gone, and I'm stuck.
>>>>> Any help appreciated,
>>>>> Thea
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>> http://writers.nfb.org/
>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org 
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
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>>>>> stylist:
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>>>>> 0gmail
>>>>> .com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>> http://writers.nfb.org/
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>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>> http://writers.nfb.org/
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>>>>> t
>>>>
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>>>> com
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>>
>>>> This e-mail and any attachments to it are confidential and are 
>>>> intended solely for use of the individual or entity to whom they 
>>>> are addressed. If you have received this e-mail in error, please 
>>>> notify the sender immediately and then delete it. If you are not 
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>>>> views expressed in this e-mail message do not necessarily represent

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>>>
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>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/shawn.d.jacobson
>> %
>> 40hud.
>> gov
>>> _______________________________________________
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>> _______________________________________________
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-- 
"Let's drink a toast now to who we really are."

           --Jane Siberry


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