[stylist] dividing blind people into groups
Lynda Lambert
llambert at zoominternet.net
Mon Mar 17 23:27:40 UTC 2014
YES! Would that not be something!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Applebutter Hill" <applebutterhill at gmail.com>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 6:15 PM
Subject: Re: [stylist] dividing blind people into groups
> As I was saying ... Cotton, and I think we should all be in an art gallery
> in our bins as part of a consciousness-raising exhibit.
> Donna
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Atty Rose
> Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2014 12:52 PM
> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [stylist] dividing blind people into groups
>
> My bin needs to be bio-degradeable. LOL
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2014 5:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [stylist] dividing blind people into groups
>
>
>>I do not want to be in a plastic bin! Hmmmm, what are my options? Make my
>>bin out of soft fiber, in fact, I can knit my own bin. I'll do it in
>>luscious yarns of orange, yellow, and pinks. Yes, I'll felt it to give it
>>stability and I'll make a nice lid for it. Oh, certainly, I'll do
>>encrusted
>
>>beadworking all over it. It has to be a bin that is glitzy and sparkly,
>>soft and warm, and smart looking. Nice to the touch! Yes, a succulent bin
>>will be just perfect! One with no labels on it at all.
>>
>> Lynda
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Applebutter Hill" <applebutterhill at gmail.com>
>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 9:25 PM
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] dividing blind people into groups
>>
>>
>>> Are they plastic bins? Do they come with lids? Can I pick my favorite
>>> color?
>>> *grin*
>>> Donna
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Atty Rose
>>> Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 3:29 PM
>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] dividing blind people into groups
>>>
>>> Put us into bins, I loved that visual!
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Jacobson, Shawn D" <Shawn.D.Jacobson at hud.gov>
>>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 2:13 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] dividing blind people into groups
>>>
>>>
>>>> What I remember from the braille school was that there was a pecking
>>>> order
>>>
>>>> by how much you could see. The high partials were generally on top
>>>> with
>>>> the totally blind on the bottom. When we had mobility training there
>>>> were
>>>
>>>> the totally blind (Rams) and the partially sighted (Ramblers) and they
>>>> were in different classes for our mobility milers contest.
>>>>
>>>> And then there were the religious differences (mostly Catholic or
>>>> Protestant or Jewish).
>>>>
>>>> Point being, sighted folk will put us into bins according to their own
>>>> tastes.
>>>>
>>>> Shawn
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Atty
>>>> Rose
>>>> Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 2:46 PM
>>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>>> Subject: [stylist] dividing blind people into groups
>>>>
>>>> I really don't think I can add anything to Donna's remarks, she said it
>>>> so
>>>
>>>> well. I just want to say that there is power in numbers. I am one of
>>>> those
>>>
>>>> who write letters and call my senators and congress-people. Sometimes
>>>> when we feel isolated we can feel like we're the only ones, but there
>>>> is
>
>>>> a
>>>
>>>> whole vast group of visually impaired people. And even though we don't
>>>> always
>>>> agree with one another, we don't have to to stand by one another.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps we have issues with the NFB, but here we are on their list
>>>> talking
>>>
>>>> to people who care about what we say.
>>>>
>>>> And if they sent out a notice to call our reps, I'd be dialing away.
>>>>
>>>> Change takes time and Scheril is right about fighting for it. Sometimes
>>>> we
>>>
>>>> have to take a rest from the battle. I'm resting right now on the NFB
>>>> rights thing. I am fortunate to belong to a blind group that doesn't
>>>> care
>>>> what you see, what your philosaphies are or your life preferences and
>>>> so
>
>>>> I
>>>
>>>> feel content doing all I can for them.
>>>>
>>>> The time will come for us to gather a group and approach the upper
>>>> eshilons of the NFB and speak up again. Maybe we're down but never out.
>>>>
>>>> Life is one long adventure!
>>>> Atty
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" <bpollpeter at hotmail.com>
>>>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 11:14 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Very eloquently said.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bridgit
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>> Applebutter Hill
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 11:31 AM
>>>>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thea,
>>>>> I understand your perspective, but I disagree with dividing us up into
>>>>> sub-groups. All of the examples you gave are still viewed as blind by
>>>>> the general public. Even more importantly, we are already the smallest
>>>>> minority; we are what is referred to as a "low-incidence disability.
>>>>> Because of this and the geographic separation, we are already in a
>>>>> position of not posing much of a threat to the public. We aren't out
>>>>> there protesting regularly, sitting in or even (though I don't
>>>>> recommend
>>>>> this ) throwing rocks. When the calls come for us to write letters to
>>>>> our elected officials, sign petitions and the like, a very small
>>>>> percentage of us actually take action (even if you limit it to the NFB
>>>>> membership). I know for certain that the subset that is willing to
>>>>> take
>>>>> the time out of their busy days to sign a petition, put notices on
>>>>> social media, call Congress, etc. is a diversified group that includes
>>>>> every category you mention. Dividing ourselves is suicide.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, we are essentially expendable, easily overlooked and our issues
>>>>> are at the bottom of the pecking order when it comes to social change.
>>>>>
>>>>> The goal is to live in a world where blindness is no more of a barrier
>>>>> than blonde hair. But, I don't think there are many blind activists
>>>>> who
>>>>> believe that a person can transition from fully sighted to blind
>>>>> without
>>>>> a significant input of work, dedication and perseverance. There is
>>>>> also
>>>>> the shock value of those kind of proclamations, which is how everyone
>>>>> else does it. And, the fact that we are discriminated against and that
>>>>> the world isn't opening its arms to welcome us doesn't diminish the
>>>>> truth that, given the proper training and a can-do attitude, blind
>>>>> people can and do flourish despite the barriers imposed by a foolish
>>>>> public. Donna
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miss
>>>>> Thea
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 2:48 AM
>>>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>>>
>>>>> How the blue blazes can a non-disabled person test for anything
>>>>> regarding the blind, or any other disability? What are people smoking
>>>>> these days? Would you, as a blind person, offer to test for a
>>>>> deaf-user
>>>>> product? Of course you wouldn't. Some people blame certain things on
>>>>> the
>>>>> militant blind, saying they're the ones who made it difficult for the
>>>>> rest of us. If blindness is no more than a nuisance, or a
>>>>> characteristic
>>>>> like blond hair, well then, it follows. People with blond hair don't
>>>>> use
>>>>> different technology, so if blindness is truly a mere characteristic
>>>>> like blond hair, as I've heard at the only NFB convention I ever went
>>>>> to, then why should it change? We don't need anything. We're rough,
>>>>> tough, independent blind people. Right?
>>>>>
>>>>> I've always considered blindness a major disability. The day it
>>>>> becomes
>>>>> a mere nuisance or a characteristic like blond hair will be the day
>>>>> when
>>>>> I can get any job, use any computer, drive a car, read any type of
>>>>> print
>>>>> including hand writing, and so forth. Till that day, and especially
>>>>> with
>>>>> websites going backwards instead of forwards, I'm afraid I disagree
>>>>> with
>>>>> our more militant friends. I'm not a rough, tough, young independent
>>>>> blind person. I'm on the sunny side of 50, have illnesses and
>>>>> conditions
>>>>> not related to blindness, and frankly, I'm having trouble keeping up
>>>>> with all the changes. I'm doing my best, but the last Windows I liked
>>>>> was Windows XP. Not only do I remember text-based DOS and the text
>>>>> adventure games I so much enjoyed, (as an adult in her late twenties),
>>>>> I
>>>>> remember when there were no such things as computers. I remember when
>>>>> the most exciting thing I experienced was the Optacon and the talking
>>>>> calculator. I remember the Braille I read in the 70's, and have no
>>>>> idea
>>>>> why they need to unify the whole darn Braille code.
>>>>>
>>>>> Gays and lesbians for instance, gained the right to marry and put
>>>>> their
>>>>> spouse under their health insurance at work, and be the next of kin
>>>>> when
>>>>> an emergency happened, and now have many rights they didn't when I was
>>>>> growing up, because they fought for the same things, and they fought
>>>>> in
>>>>> force. One of the complaints I've heard is that the blind community is
>>>>> too busy fighting among themselves and spending their energies
>>>>> whining,
>>>>> etc. The problem with blindness is that it's a continuum, not just one
>>>>> condition. Let's say Al's totally blind, never so much as seen light,
>>>>> while Tyler sees light and shadows and therefore probably has better
>>>>> mobility. Tessa can see enough to read large print, while Bill can do
>>>>> everything but drive. That's all lumped under the general category of
>>>>> blindness. Oh, then there's blind-plus. I.E. Lucy's deaf-blind,
>>>>> Samantha's partially blind and partially deaf, and Tiny Tim there, not
>>>>> only uses a wheelchair but is stone cold blind. How does one community
>>>>> address all these needs? Why should the guy who can do everything but
>>>>> drive care about the guy who's never so much as seen light? These men
>>>>> perceive the world totally differently, and their needs are different.
>>>>> I
>>>>> think lumping everyone into the "blindness" community may be filling a
>>>>> small boat with more people than it can handle. I propose the idea
>>>>> that
>>>>> there is a blind community, a partially sighted community, and a
>>>>> blind-plus community. The blind community would comprise totals and
>>>>> those who have so little vision, it's not useful to them. Anyway, if
>>>>> we
>>>>> could sort ourselves out, decide what we need, and go after it in
>>>>> force,
>>>>> we could end up getting what we want, couldn't we? Sure, there are
>>>>> more
>>>>> LGBT people than there are blind people, but I'm sure the LGBT
>>>>> community
>>>>> had to work out differences, too. Bisexuals had different needs than
>>>>> transgenders, etc. Anyway, that's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
>>>>> Thea
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 12:15 AM
>>>>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>>>
>>>>> Donna,
>>>>>
>>>>> I never thought of this but you're absolutely correct. Buildings
>>>>> legally
>>>>> must have so many accessible entrances and bathrooms, but when it
>>>>> comes
>>>>> to blind accessibility, it's often lacking. Why are legal standards
>>>>> expected for one disability but not another? Websites and technology
>>>>> should have to adhere to certain standards, and yes, actual blind
>>>>> users
>>>>> should be the testers. I get so tired of non-disabled people doing the
>>>>> work, not thinking they need people with a given disability to test,
>>>>> comment and assist.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bridgit
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>> Applebutter Hill
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 4:19 PM
>>>>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim,
>>>>> I know what you mean. Getting the most out of our screen readers is a
>>>>> lot of hard work, because every site is different. It can be
>>>>> exceptionally frustrating to spend hours trying to get something done
>>>>> that we know a sighted person can do in ten minutes. Nevertheless, it
>>>>> is
>>>>> what it is, and it's possible to get a lot further than many screen
>>>>> reader users get. I get aggravated when blind people ask me to provide
>>>>> them with a web address, when they can Google it in the same amount of
>>>>> time as I can. It feels sometimes like they don't realize that I had
>>>>> to
>>>>> go through the same grueling and aggravating process they are trying
>>>>> to
>>>>> avoid to get the knowledge I have and that I have to continue
>>>>> struggling
>>>>> every day despite the stress of it, because it's the only way I can
>>>>> get
>>>>> anywhere.
>>>>>
>>>>> On the other hand, people who want to build a hospital want their
>>>>> building to be accessible to everyone too, and they don't know how to
>>>>> do
>>>>> it either. The difference is that the architects of brick and mortor
>>>>> facilities have to meet standards which are scrutinized by licensing
>>>>> officials prior to one brick being laid. Website designers, whose jobs
>>>>> involve putting 1s and0s in the right places, are on their own. They
>>>>> either don't consider accessibility or they hire someone to test the
>>>>> accessibility who is not a user of the adaptive software on a regular
>>>>> basis. It's difficult to force yourself to not notice things if you
>>>>> can
>>>>> see them, and difficult to be conscious of when your sight has
>>>>> influenced something you do with the screen reader. IMO, websites
>>>>> should
>>>>> be tested for accessibility by blind people and some of them should
>>>>> have
>>>>> average screen reader skills.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, there are other accessibility issues in addition to screen
>>>>> readers. Sites need to work for people using magnification and voice
>>>>> recognition as well. Donna
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Homme,
>>>>> James
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 8:16 AM
>>>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> I do accessibility work a lot. In my experience, most people want to
>>>>> make their stuff accessible. They just don't know what accessibility
>>>>> is,
>>>>> or how it affects people with disabilities. Most people assume,
>>>>> naturally enough, that whoever wants to can simply just use their
>>>>> stuff.
>>>>> And one of my pet peeves is when someone who should know how to use
>>>>> their screen reader better complains that something is inaccessible,
>>>>> because they don't want to take the time to use the help available to
>>>>> them. We make ourselves look bad when this happens.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry. I'm a little cranky today. I need to do my journaling.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miss
>>>>> Thea
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 2:43 PM
>>>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>>>
>>>>> Think I'll document my experiences with Triond on my new blog, then
>>>>> spread it on Social Media like butter on bread. Hahahaha. Thea
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Atty Rose
>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 11:33 AM
>>>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Thea,
>>>>>
>>>>> Welcome. I get so frustrated when this happens. If writing letters
>>>>> isn't
>>>>> working and there is no phone, all you can do really put a claim
>>>>> against
>>>>> them, or have all your blind friends write them too. I always write a
>>>>> letter if I run into issues. Even if nothing happens I stand up for
>>>>> our
>>>>> comunity. Sometimes it works great! Sometimes I get nothing back.
>>>>>
>>>>> All you can do is your best!
>>>>>
>>>>> Well met,
>>>>> Atty
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Miss Thea" <thearamsay at rogers.com>
>>>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 3:45 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi, Donna.
>>>>>> There is a place where you can upload photos, but it is still
>>>>>> inaccessible, as you have to drag and drop images.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All I want is my name in print--a hardcover or paperback with my John
>>>>>> Hancock and a great story inside, that people can get lost in. I
>>>>>> don't
>>>>>
>>>>>> mind doing the work; I don't mind doing hard work. But I DO mind
>>>>>> wasting my time, and there's not even a way for me to express my
>>>>>> displeasure by cancelling my account. I guess I could just let it go,
>>>>>> and concentrate on the things I can do, which is why I'm here. Nice
>>>>>> to
>>>>>
>>>>>> meet you, too. Thea
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Applebutter Hill
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2014 8:11 PM
>>>>>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Thea,
>>>>>> Welcome to Stylist. I wrote for a bunch of online magazines for
>>>>>> years,
>>>>>
>>>>>> but not this one. I'm thinking of a couple of things.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> First, what would a person do if they had their own photos? Is there
>>>>>> an uploader? It seems bogus that they would force people to pick and
>>>>>> choose from stock photos and not have an option to upload photos of
>>>>>> their
>>>>> own.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm saying this, because, if there is an uploader that you can use,
>>>>>> there are sites where you can get free, high quality photos that you
>>>>>> could download and then upload to this site. The captions are usually
>>>>>> clear enough to get the idea what the photo is, and as long as you
>>>>>> credit the photographer or the group, you can use them without fear.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As far as your efforts to bring this to the attention of the site go,
>>>>>> it is something we need to do, but it rarely results in positive
>>>>>> changes. I used to write for Suite 101, which had revenue sharing and
>>>>>> required a photo with each article. It was accessible until they re
>>>>>> designed their site. I wrote to them many times, and I was assured
>>>>>> that accessibility was a priority for them. They even asked me to do
>>>>>> beta testing on the new site, which I did. Nothing ever changed.
>>>>>> Ultimately they dropped their journalistic standards, such as they
>>>>>> were, and at that point, I really wasn't interested in writing for
>>>>>> them anyway.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Suite 101 is a Canadian company, so they don't fall under our laws.
>>>>>> But, the laws we have in the US are not being enforced even on
>>>>>> government websites. The irony to me was that when Suite 101 started
>>>>>> becoming less accessible, I was in the midst of writing a series of
>>>>>> articles on web accessibility.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway, it's nice to meet you, and I look forward to getting to know
>>>>>> you. Donna
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miss
>>>>>> Thea
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2014 5:36 PM
>>>>>> To: stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Subject: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi, everyone.
>>>>>> I'm Thea, I just joined the list, and I write all kinds of stuff:
>>>>>> fiction, nonfiction, and fan fiction. I guess that about covers it,
>>>>>> eh? I used to publish articles and short stories on www.triond.com
>>>>>> but
>>>>>
>>>>>> they require an image with each submission. I had sighted help for a
>>>>>> while, but once the sighted help disappeared, I found I could not use
>>>>>> this site because of its image requirement. It's not a Captcha I have
>>>>>> to fill in. This site requires, along with the article, your
>>>>>> selection
>>>>>
>>>>>> of a category, which you can choose from a combo
>>>>>> box: health, news, politics, women ... Then after the body of your
>>>>>> article, you add tags. Let's say you've chosen "women". Your tags
>>>>>> could be birth control, birth control devices, IUD, etc. Then there's
>>>>>> a question mark where a chosen image should go. You hit the "get
>>>>>> image
>>>>>
>>>>>> suggestions" button, and images are supposed to present themselves.
>>>>>> At this time, you have to be able to see the image and drag it to the
>>>>>> question mark.
>>>>>> Last but not least, you have to check the box that says you are the
>>>>>> original creator of this work, and click submit.
>>>>>> Piece o' cake ... if you can see.
>>>>>> Has anyone ever tried or found some way around this difficulty?
>>>>>> The site is www.triond.com
>>>>>> My emails to them about this barrier have netted me no response.
>>>>>> The site is free, and supposedly, you can create a following, if
>>>>>> you're prolific enough, and you can earn money, be it ever so small.
>>>>>> I don't mind that. I DO mind this inaccessibility, and the company's
>>>>>> apparent lack of interest.
>>>>>> Anyone ever tried this www.triond.com
>>>>>> While I had sighted help, I published articles and stories, so I have
>>>>>> a small portfolio if you like.
>>>>>> Now the sighted help is gone, and I'm stuck.
>>>>>> Any help appreciated,
>>>>>> Thea
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>>> http://writers.nfb.org/
>>>>>> stylist mailing list
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>>> http://writers.nfb.org/
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>>> http://writers.nfb.org/
>>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>> stylist:
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>>>>>> t
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>> http://writers.nfb.org/
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>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>> http://writers.nfb.org/
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>>>>> com
>>>>>
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>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Writers Division web site
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>> http://writers.nfb.org/
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>> http://writers.nfb.org/
>>>>> stylist mailing list
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>> http://writers.nfb.org/
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>> http://writers.nfb.org/
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>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site
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> stylist:
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> .com
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> _______________________________________________
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> stylist:
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