[stylist] dividing blind people into groups

Sun Mar 23 02:54:29 UTC 2014

I had forgotten all about that. Someday, I'm going to move the Knitters'
Gazebo to a WordPress blog. I love writing that stuff, but Suite 101 isn't
the place to do it.
Donna

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda Lambert
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 7:13 AM
To: Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [stylist] dividing blind people into groups

OH, NO! You recall, I met you at Krafters-Korner????  And, read your
"Knitting Gazebo" articles and even took your class on circular knitting????

Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "Applebutter Hill" <applebutterhill at gmail.com>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 10:24 PM
Subject: Re: [stylist] dividing blind people into groups

> Dang! I've been outed! I thought I could get you to knit my bin.
> *grin* Donna
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda
> Lambert
> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 7:30 PM
> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [stylist] dividing blind people into groups
>
> You can KNIT ;your own, DONNA, I know you are an expert knitter!
> Lynda
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Applebutter Hill" <applebutterhill at gmail.com>
> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 5:59 PM
> Subject: Re: [stylist] dividing blind people into groups
>
>
>> I'll comission you to make one using cotton yarn. *grin* Donna
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda
>> Lambert
>> Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2014 6:10 AM
>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] dividing blind people into groups
>>
>> I do not want to be in a plastic bin! Hmmmm, what are my options?
>> Make my bin out of soft fiber, in fact, I can knit my own bin. I'll
>> do it in luscious yarns of orange, yellow, and pinks.  Yes, I'll felt
>> it to give it stability and I'll make a nice lid for it. Oh,
>> certainly, I'll do encrusted beadworking all over it. It has to be a
>> bin that is glitzy and sparkly, soft and warm, and smart looking.
>> Nice to the touch! Yes, a succulent bin will be just perfect! One
>> with no labels on it at all.
>>
>> Lynda
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Applebutter Hill" <applebutterhill at gmail.com>
>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 9:25 PM
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] dividing blind people into groups
>>
>>
>>> Are they plastic bins? Do they come with lids? Can I pick my
>>> favorite color?
>>> *grin*
>>> Donna
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Atty
>>> Rose
>>> Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 3:29 PM
>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] dividing blind people into groups
>>>
>>> Put us into bins, I loved that visual!
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Jacobson, Shawn D" <Shawn.D.Jacobson at hud.gov>
>>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 2:13 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] dividing blind people into groups
>>>
>>>
>>>> What I remember from the braille school was that there was a
>>>> pecking order
>>>
>>>> by how much you could see.  The high partials were generally on top
>>>> with the totally blind on the bottom.  When we had mobility
>>>> training there were
>>>
>>>> the totally blind (Rams) and the partially sighted (Ramblers) and
>>>> they were in different classes for our mobility milers contest.
>>>>
>>>> And then there were the religious differences (mostly Catholic or
>>>> Protestant or Jewish).
>>>>
>>>> Point being, sighted folk will put us into bins according to their
>>>> own tastes.
>>>>
>>>> Shawn
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Atty
>>>> Rose
>>>> Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 2:46 PM
>>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>>> Subject: [stylist] dividing blind people into groups
>>>>
>>>> I really don't think I can add anything to Donna's remarks, she
>>>> said it so
>>>
>>>> well. I just want to say that there is power in numbers. I am one
>>>> of those
>>>
>>>> who write letters and call my senators and congress-people.
>>>> Sometimes when we feel isolated we can feel like we're the only
>>>> ones, but there is a
>>>
>>>> whole vast group of visually impaired people. And even though we
>>>> don't always
>>>> agree   with one another, we don't have to to stand by one another.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps we have issues with the NFB, but here we are on their list
>>>> talking
>>>
>>>> to people who care about what we say.
>>>>
>>>> And if they sent out a notice to call our reps, I'd be dialing away.
>>>>
>>>> Change takes time and Scheril is right about fighting for it.
>>>> Sometimes we
>>>
>>>> have to take a rest from the battle. I'm resting right now on the
>>>> NFB rights thing. I am fortunate to belong to a blind group that
>>>> doesn't care what you see, what your philosaphies are or your life
>>>> preferences and so I
>>>
>>>> feel content doing all I can for them.
>>>>
>>>> The time will come for us to gather a group and approach the upper
>>>> eshilons of the NFB and speak up again. Maybe we're down but never out.
>>>>
>>>> Life is one long adventure!
>>>> Atty
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" <bpollpeter at hotmail.com>
>>>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 11:14 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Very eloquently said.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bridgit
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>> Applebutter Hill
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 11:31 AM
>>>>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thea,
>>>>> I understand your perspective, but I disagree with dividing us up
>>>>> into sub-groups. All of the examples you gave are still viewed as
>>>>> blind by the general public. Even more importantly, we are already
>>>>> the smallest minority; we are what is referred to as a "low-incidence
disability.
>>>>> Because of this and the geographic separation, we are already in a
>>>>> position of not posing much of a threat to the public. We aren't
>>>>> out there protesting regularly, sitting in or even (though I don't
>>>>> recommend this ) throwing rocks. When the calls come for us to
>>>>> write letters to our elected officials, sign petitions and the
>>>>> like, a very small percentage of us actually take action (even if
>>>>> you limit it to the NFB membership). I know for certain that the
>>>>> subset that is willing to take the time out of their busy days to
>>>>> sign a petition, put notices on social media, call Congress, etc.
>>>>> is a diversified group that includes every category you mention.
>>>>> Dividing ourselves is suicide.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, we are essentially expendable, easily overlooked and our
>>>>> issues are at the bottom of the pecking order when it comes to social
change.
>>>>>
>>>>> The goal is to live in a world where blindness is no more of a
>>>>> barrier than blonde hair. But, I don't think there are many blind
>>>>> activists who believe that a person can transition from fully
>>>>> sighted to blind without a significant input of work, dedication
>>>>> and perseverance. There is also the shock value of those kind of
>>>>> proclamations, which is how everyone else does it. And, the fact
>>>>> that we are discriminated against and that the world isn't opening
>>>>> its arms to welcome us doesn't diminish the truth that, given the
>>>>> proper training and a can-do attitude, blind people can and do
>>>>> flourish despite the barriers imposed by a foolish public. Donna
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>> Miss Thea
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 2:48 AM
>>>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>>>
>>>>> How the blue blazes can a non-disabled person test for anything
>>>>> regarding the blind, or any other disability? What are people
>>>>> smoking these days? Would you, as a blind person, offer to test
>>>>> for a deaf-user product? Of course you wouldn't. Some people blame
>>>>> certain things on the militant blind, saying they're the ones who
>>>>> made it difficult for the rest of us. If blindness is no more than
>>>>> a nuisance, or a characteristic like blond hair, well then, it
>>>>> follows. People with blond hair don't use different technology, so
>>>>> if blindness is truly a mere characteristic like blond hair, as
>>>>> I've heard at the only NFB convention I ever went to, then why
>>>>> should it change? We don't need anything. We're rough, tough,
>>>>> independent blind people. Right?
>>>>>
>>>>> I've always considered blindness a major disability. The day it
>>>>> becomes a mere nuisance or a characteristic like blond hair will
>>>>> be the day when I can get any job, use any computer, drive a car,
>>>>> read any type of print including hand writing, and so forth. Till
>>>>> that day, and especially with websites going backwards instead of
>>>>> forwards, I'm afraid I disagree with our more militant friends.
>>>>> I'm not a rough, tough, young independent blind person. I'm on the
>>>>> sunny side of 50, have illnesses and conditions not related to
>>>>> blindness, and frankly, I'm having trouble keeping up with all the
>>>>> changes. I'm doing my best, but the last Windows I liked was
>>>>> Windows XP. Not only do I remember text-based DOS and the text
>>>>> adventure games I so much enjoyed, (as an adult in her late
>>>>> twenties), I remember when there were no such things as computers.
>>>>> I remember when the most exciting thing I experienced was the
>>>>> Optacon and the talking calculator. I remember the Braille I read
>>>>> in the 70's, and have no idea why they need to unify the whole
>>>>> darn Braille code.
>>>>>
>>>>> Gays and lesbians for instance, gained the right to marry and put
>>>>> their spouse under their health insurance at work, and be the next
>>>>> of kin when an emergency happened, and now have many rights they
>>>>> didn't when I was growing up, because they fought for the same
>>>>> things, and they fought in force. One of the complaints I've heard
>>>>> is that the blind community is too busy fighting among themselves
>>>>> and spending their energies whining, etc. The problem with
>>>>> blindness is that it's a continuum, not just one condition. Let's
>>>>> say Al's totally blind, never so much as seen light, while Tyler
>>>>> sees light and shadows and therefore probably has better mobility.
>>>>> Tessa can see enough to read large print, while Bill can do
>>>>> everything but drive. That's all lumped under the general category
>>>>> of blindness. Oh, then there's blind-plus. I.E. Lucy's deaf-blind,
>>>>> Samantha's partially blind and partially deaf, and Tiny Tim there,
>>>>> not only uses a wheelchair but is stone cold blind. How does one
>>>>> community address all these needs? Why should the guy who can do
>>>>> everything but drive care about the guy who's never so much as
>>>>> seen light? These men perceive the world totally differently, and
their needs are different.
>>>>> I
>>>>> think lumping everyone into the "blindness" community may be
>>>>> filling a small boat with more people than it can handle. I
>>>>> propose the idea that there is a blind community, a partially
>>>>> sighted community, and a blind-plus community. The blind community
>>>>> would comprise totals and those who have so little vision, it's
>>>>> not useful to them. Anyway, if we could sort ourselves out, decide
>>>>> what we need, and go after it in force, we could end up getting
>>>>> what we want, couldn't we? Sure, there are more LGBT people than
>>>>> there are blind people, but I'm sure the LGBT community had to
>>>>> work out differences, too. Bisexuals had different needs than
>>>>> transgenders, etc. Anyway, that's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
>>>>> Thea
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 12:15 AM
>>>>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>>>
>>>>> Donna,
>>>>>
>>>>> I never thought of this but you're absolutely correct. Buildings
>>>>> legally must have so many accessible entrances and bathrooms, but
>>>>> when it comes to blind accessibility, it's often lacking. Why are
>>>>> legal standards expected for one disability but not another?
>>>>> Websites and technology should have to adhere to certain
>>>>> standards, and yes, actual blind users should be the testers. I
>>>>> get so tired of non-disabled people doing the work, not thinking
>>>>> they need people with a given disability to test, comment and
>>>>> assist.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bridgit
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>> Applebutter Hill
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 4:19 PM
>>>>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim,
>>>>> I know what you mean. Getting the most out of our screen readers
>>>>> is a lot of hard work, because every site is different. It can be
>>>>> exceptionally frustrating to spend hours trying to get something
>>>>> done that we know a sighted person can do in ten minutes.
>>>>> Nevertheless, it is what it is, and it's possible to get a lot
>>>>> further than many screen reader users get. I get aggravated when
>>>>> blind people ask me to provide them with a web address, when they
>>>>> can Google it in the same amount of time as I can. It feels
>>>>> sometimes like they don't realize that I had to go through the
>>>>> same grueling and aggravating process they are trying to avoid to
>>>>> get the knowledge I have and that I have to continue struggling
>>>>> every day despite the stress of it, because it's the only way I
>>>>> can get anywhere.
>>>>>
>>>>> On the other hand, people who want to build a hospital want their
>>>>> building to be accessible to everyone too, and they don't know how
>>>>> to do it either. The difference is that the architects of brick
>>>>> and mortor facilities have to meet standards which are scrutinized
>>>>> by licensing officials prior to one brick being laid. Website
>>>>> designers, whose jobs involve putting 1s and0s in the right
>>>>> places, are on their own. They either don't consider accessibility
>>>>> or they hire someone to test the accessibility who is not a user
>>>>> of the adaptive software on a regular basis. It's difficult to
>>>>> force yourself to not notice things if you can see them, and
>>>>> difficult to be conscious of when your sight has influenced
>>>>> something you do with the screen reader. IMO, websites should be
>>>>> tested for accessibility by blind people and some of them should
>>>>> have average screen reader skills.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, there are other accessibility issues in addition to screen
>>>>> readers. Sites need to work for people using magnification and
>>>>> voice recognition as well. Donna
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>> Homme, James
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 8:16 AM
>>>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> I do accessibility work a lot. In my experience, most people want
>>>>> to make their stuff accessible. They just don't know what
>>>>> accessibility is, or how it affects people with disabilities. Most
>>>>> people assume, naturally enough, that whoever wants to can simply
>>>>> just use their stuff.
>>>>> And one of my pet peeves is when someone who should know how to
>>>>> use their screen reader better complains that something is
>>>>> inaccessible, because they don't want to take the time to use the
>>>>> help available to them. We make ourselves look bad when this happens.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry. I'm a little cranky today. I need to do my journaling.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>> Miss Thea
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 2:43 PM
>>>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>>>
>>>>> Think I'll document my experiences with Triond on my new blog,
>>>>> then spread it on Social Media like butter on bread. Hahahaha.
>>>>> Thea
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Atty Rose
>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 11:33 AM
>>>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Thea,
>>>>>
>>>>> Welcome. I get so frustrated when this happens. If writing letters
>>>>> isn't working and there is no phone, all you can do really put a
>>>>> claim against them, or have all your blind friends write them too.
>>>>> I always write a letter if I run into issues. Even if nothing
>>>>> happens I stand up for our comunity. Sometimes it works great!
>>>>> Sometimes I get nothing back.
>>>>>
>>>>> All you can do is your best!
>>>>>
>>>>> Well met,
>>>>> Atty
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Miss Thea" <thearamsay at rogers.com>
>>>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 3:45 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi, Donna.
>>>>>> There is a place where you can upload photos, but it is still
>>>>>> inaccessible, as you have to drag and drop images.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All I want is my name in print--a hardcover or paperback with my
>>>>>> John Hancock and a great story inside, that people can get lost
>>>>>> in. I don't
>>>>>
>>>>>> mind doing the work; I don't mind doing hard work. But I DO mind
>>>>>> wasting my time, and there's not even a way for me to express my
>>>>>> displeasure by cancelling my account. I guess I could just let it
>>>>>> go, and concentrate on the things I can do, which is why I'm
>>>>>> here. Nice to
>>>>>
>>>>>> meet you, too. Thea
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Applebutter Hill
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2014 8:11 PM
>>>>>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Thea,
>>>>>> Welcome to Stylist. I wrote for a bunch of online magazines for
>>>>>> years,
>>>>>
>>>>>> but not this one. I'm thinking of a couple of things.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> First, what would a person do if they had their own photos? Is
>>>>>> there an uploader? It seems bogus that they would force people to
>>>>>> pick and choose from stock photos and not have an option to
>>>>>> upload photos of their
>>>>> own.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm saying this, because, if there is an uploader that you can
>>>>>> use, there are sites where you can get free, high quality photos
>>>>>> that you could download and then upload to this site. The
>>>>>> captions are usually clear enough to get the idea what the photo
>>>>>> is, and as long as you credit the photographer or the group, you can
use them without fear.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As far as your efforts to bring this to the attention of the site
>>>>>> go, it is something we need to do, but it rarely results in
>>>>>> positive changes. I used to write for Suite 101, which had
>>>>>> revenue sharing and required a photo with each article. It was
>>>>>> accessible until they re designed their site. I wrote to them
>>>>>> many times, and I was assured that accessibility was a priority
>>>>>> for them. They even asked me to do beta testing on the new site,
which I did. Nothing ever changed.
>>>>>> Ultimately they dropped their journalistic standards, such as
>>>>>> they were, and at that point, I really wasn't interested in
>>>>>> writing for them anyway.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Suite 101 is a Canadian company, so they don't fall under our laws.
>>>>>> But, the laws we have in the US are not being enforced even on
>>>>>> government websites. The irony to me was that when Suite 101
>>>>>> started becoming less accessible, I was in the midst of writing a
>>>>>> series of articles on web accessibility.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway, it's nice to meet you, and I look forward to getting to
>>>>>> know you. Donna
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>>> Miss Thea
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2014 5:36 PM
>>>>>> To: stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Subject: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi, everyone.
>>>>>> I'm Thea, I just joined the list, and I write all kinds of stuff:
>>>>>> fiction, nonfiction, and fan fiction. I guess that about covers
>>>>>> it, eh? I used to publish articles and short stories on
>>>>>> www.triond.com but
>>>>>
>>>>>> they require an image with each submission. I had sighted help
>>>>>> for a while, but once the sighted help disappeared, I found I
>>>>>> could not use this site because of its image requirement. It's
>>>>>> not a Captcha I have to fill in. This site requires, along with
>>>>>> the article, your selection
>>>>>
>>>>>> of a category, which you can choose from a combo
>>>>>> box: health, news, politics, women ... Then after the body of
>>>>>> your article, you add tags. Let's say you've chosen "women". Your
>>>>>> tags could be birth control, birth control devices, IUD, etc.
>>>>>> Then there's a question mark where a chosen image should go. You
>>>>>> hit the "get image
>>>>>
>>>>>> suggestions" button, and images are supposed to present themselves.
>>>>>> At this time, you have to be able to see the image and drag it to
>>>>>> the question mark.
>>>>>> Last but not least, you have to check the box that says you are
>>>>>> the original creator of this work, and click submit.
>>>>>> Piece o' cake ... if you can see.
>>>>>> Has anyone ever tried or found some way around this difficulty?
>>>>>> The site is www.triond.com
>>>>>> My emails to them about this barrier have netted me no response.
>>>>>> The site is free, and supposedly, you can create a following, if
>>>>>> you're prolific enough, and you can earn money, be it ever so small.
>>>>>> I don't mind that. I DO mind this inaccessibility, and the
>>>>>> company's apparent lack of interest.
>>>>>> Anyone ever tried this www.triond.com While I had sighted help, I
>>>>>> published articles and stories, so I have a small portfolio if
>>>>>> you like.
>>>>>> Now the sighted help is gone, and I'm stuck.
>>>>>> Any help appreciated,
>>>>>> Thea
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>>> http://writers.nfb.org/
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>>> http://writers.nfb.org/
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>>> http://writers.nfb.org/
>>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>> ox.ne
>>>>>> t
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>> http://writers.nfb.org/
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>> http://writers.nfb.org/
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>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
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>>>>> ark.
>>>>> com
>>>>>
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>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>> http://writers.nfb.org/
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>> http://writers.nfb.org/
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>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>> http://writers.nfb.org/
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>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/shawn.d.jacobson%40hud.
>>> gov
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> ternet
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>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site
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> stylist:
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site
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> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> stylist:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoomin
> ternet.net

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