[stylist] FW: keeping poems

Lynda Lambert llambert at zoominternet.net
Thu Jun 11 02:20:20 UTC 2015 

Yes, Bridgit, all correct.  This is a private list and not a list where 
things are published  - but anything that is published in the journals or 
literary magazines  by organizations is "published" material. Many 
guidelines list social media and Face Book and others as cause for 
elimination of the work. This was Jackie's observation from her experience 
with contests - some will allow it, but others will list it as not qualified 
due to a precious publication. You just have to consider what you want for 
the particular work and if it's something you want to keep back for entry or 
submission at another time or place.  It is a matter of reading the 
guidelines and following the rules.  Lynda


-----Original Message----- 
From: Bridgit Kuenning-Pollpeter via stylist
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 8:03 PM
To: 'Writers' Division Mailing List'
Cc: Bridgit Kuenning-Pollpeter
Subject: Re: [stylist] FW: keeping poems

Email list like Stylist do not count as this is considered an online writing 
group, so any material shared is not considered as being published. Facebook 
counts as a personal website, so worked posted on FB or Twitter would be 
considered as published. If the Writers' Division post your writing on its 
website that would be considered published work too. But if we post our 
writing on Stylist, it does not count. Since it's considered an online 
writing group, it's not considered as published. It's up to the individual, 
and some may want to be cautious and not have certain material floating out 
there for all to see, but rest assured it would at least not be considered 
published if you do choose to post.

Bridgit

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda Lambert 
via stylist
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 5:20 PM
To: Writers' Division Mailing List
Cc: Lynda Lambert
Subject: Re: [stylist] FW: keeping poems

Jackie's point is certainly a good one - for those of us who work with 
publishers and journals, we cannot post our work for many publications will 
not accept anything that has been published previously anywhere at all - 
even on your own facebook page. That is a sobering fact, and it comes back 
to bite  us if we do it and we would  lose credibility with the publishers 
who work with us.  I do not enter contests much at all - only two in a year, 
because I am in the groups, so that is not my concern.  But I do want to 
continue to have my work appear in publications where I am paid for my  work 
and would never consider sending the editors  anything that was published 
anywhere else unless it is specified in the rules for Submissions that it is 
ok to do so. My interest and expertise is in essays and poetry - so that is 
what I choose to comment on typically in the group.  Just keeping up with my 
own work keeps me hopping.  This all works exactly like  gallery and museum 
art exhibitions - the higher quality exhibition venues  will not show work 
that has appeared an any other shows unless it is part of a traveling 
exhibition and in that case the entire show travels all over the states and 
abroad with the show.  - the best galleries want exclusive rights.  This is 
all fascinating, isn't it!

Another good point is that things we write and post on the internet, even in 
groups, is often available when you do a google search on that person and 
their work.  Particularly anything you have put on Facebook - even if you 
delete, it is still available through google search.  I have to ask myself, 
"Is it worth being banned from a publication because of something I posted 
on the internet in the past?"  It's a no-brainer, isn't it! If in doubt - 
don't do it. Lynda

-----Original Message-----
From: Jackie Williams via stylist
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 5:21 PM
To: 'Writers' Division Mailing List'
Cc: Jackie Williams
Subject: [stylist] FW: keeping poems

Barbara, and all, a response that I wanted all to get and respond to.

Jackie Lee

Time is the school in which we learn.
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz

-----Original Message-----
From: Jackie Williams [mailto:jackieleepoet at cox.net]
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 7:53 AM
To: 'Barbara Hammel'
Subject: RE: keeping poems

Barbara,
Your point is well taken. There might be a subtle difference between my 
critique group and this list, this being electronic, and the other hard 
copies.
This was addressed some time ago by Bridgit and Robert, that this list is a 
group meant for critiquing and sharing, and a contest should not disqualify 
a poem because it is posted here. I agree it should not, however recently a 
poem was disqualified because the National Federation of State Poetry 
Societies found it somewhere on the internet. Searches are pretty 
comprehensive these days I am told.
I have also collected some of the poems from members here, particularly when 
they introduce a new form, like Myrna with her tumbling tercets and 
cascading quatrains, and your  poem about seeing letters and certain things 
in colors which describes a certain eye condition I can never remember the 
name for. Also, things like Lynda's relating of her strategy for writing 
that 39 line poem with the same six words repeated in six stanzas in a 
prescribed manner, with another 3 lines at the bottom. I describe this 
because my memory for the word for certain forms sometimes escapes me now.
It always comes back, but not when I need it.
It is not that I do not trust the ones on this list, but that contests are 
pretty specific about not publishing or putting your work on anything if you 
are submitting it to them, unless they say you may have simultaneous 
submissions. I have approximately fifty poems in submission at this moment, 
and I do not want to risk jeopardizing them.
Also, on a personal level, I have shared my long manuscript with its added 
"A Battered Woman's Glossary, A Ludicrous Lexicon of Legal terms, with seven 
different critiquers. With their critique, " five returned the manuscript 
plus the Glossary, and two kept the Glossary saying they wanted to show it 
to someone, and whoever they shared it with never returned it.
This manuscript has been submitted to10 contests in the past, and I am 
always afraid that I will get a notice that that Glossary is someone else's.
As poets, we are encouraged to save favorite lines, or favorite poems, and 
even to make "erasure" poems from then, where you can erase half of that 
persons poem, rework the rest, and claim it as your own, being sure to give 
credit to the original poet. But already, some of these are being legally 
challenged.
The pace of change in copywrite laws is moving and getting much more 
complicated by the internet. I wish it were not so. And the argument by many 
is that there is nothing that has not been said before, so they should be 
able to use anything that has been used before, thus evading the law.
In the meantime, I agree that so many submissions here are worthy of saving 
primarily as teaching tools for methodology, or form, or for examples of 
creative use of language.
I hope this mixed message makes sense to you.

Jackie Lee

Time is the school in which we learn.
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz

-----Original Message-----
From: Barbara Hammel [mailto:poetlori8 at icloud.com]
Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2015 1:30 PM
To: jackieleepoet at cox.net
Subject: keeping poems



If one has no intent of ever sharing another's poem without their permission 
is it so bad to keep them? I have your A Rainbow Came Down poem — probably 
not your final copy — because I liked it. Will anyone ever know I have it?
No except that it's one by you. Would I ever print it or give to anyone 
without asking you? No.
I have five or seven of Myrna's, too. If a book were out that had all of 
them, I'd probably buy it for the final printed versions of them. Guess I 
don't make a competitive or smart writer, huh. Oh, and I'd NEVER claim 
another's work as my own.
Barbara
Sent from my iPhone


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