[stylist] FW: keeping poems, for Robert, Bridgit, Lynda, and Barbara, others

Wed Jun 17 15:47:31 UTC 2015

OH, Jackie, I love your "A Book of..."but it's too late for me to do that 
after all these years - it's a great way to do it. Lynda

-----Original Message----- 
From: Jackie Williams via stylist
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 10:24 AM
To: 'Writers' Division Mailing List'
Cc: Jackie Williams
Subject: Re: [stylist] FW: keeping poems, for Robert, Bridgit, Lynda,and 
Barbara, others

Lynda,
Wow! Yes, except for dates which I never put in the title, and I am so 
sorry, for I cannot track the versions anymore because of moving around, I 
use another tool for genre. I have a big folder called "A Book of..." and 
inside that I have "A book of Cinquains," A   book of Shock and Awe," "a 
Book of Sonnets," and on and on. I am not finished with putting my poems in 
these mini-books by a long shot, but there is constant movement as I go 
through my poetry class folders and try to clear them out.
Again, Thanks for sharing.
Jackie Lee

Time is the school in which we learn.
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda Lambert 
via stylist
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 6:27 AM
To: Writers' Division Mailing List
Cc: Lynda Lambert
Subject: Re: [stylist] FW: keeping poems, for Robert, Bridgit, Lynda, and 
Barbara, others

Jackie, I also have a folder of them alphabetically, but the problem I run
ito is that I cahnge the title of poems sometimes.  In that case, I have to
list it in two idfferent places with the other title in parenthesis - but
it's good to have them that way, too.
I have them in three different kinds of folders:  One is alphabetically, and
I include dat of the poem in parenthesis behind the title.  Two is by date.
Three is my folder that has genre and date - and title...which I described
preciously. That is the most efficient one for me when I am searching for a
particular piece to work with or send off.

Lynda

-----Original Message----- 
From: Jackie Williams via stylist
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2015 8:30 PM
To: 'Writers' Division Mailing List'
Cc: Jackie Williams
Subject: Re: [stylist] FW: keeping poems, for Robert, Bridgit, Lynda,and
Barbara, others

Lynda,
This is wonderful organizing information. I did start a folder of all poems
alphabetically, but I think I like your idea better.
Wish I had just started numbering my poems from the beginning like Emily
Dickenson!
Thanks for a good conversation.

Jackie Lee

Time is the school in which we learn.
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda Lambert
via stylist
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 6:39 AM
To: Writers' Division Mailing List
Cc: Lynda Lambert
Subject: Re: [stylist] FW: keeping poems, for Robert, Bridgit, Lynda, and
Barbara, others

Thanks for the tip on the columns - that would be a good idea for me, too.
One thing I just began to do that has saved me a lot of time this year is to
aave my files just a little different. Beforet this year, I saved things by
year - but then, when I wanted to find a poem (let's say) I had to go
through folders, year by year to find what I needed. Now I took another
friend's tip, and I have ONE  MASTER FOLDER for  ALL POEMS - In that folder
I do this:
Poem15_theSkyVisitedMe - or - Poem99_two friends on a bench...etc.
So by just opening one folder, I can access any poem by year and name.  I
can do this by creating a folder for each poem (which I mostly do since I
also tweak till eternity arrives) and that folder has all the different
versions by year.
So, Poem 15 means I wrote the poem in 2015, and then I follow that by the
name or title of the poem. This has saved me so much search and aggrevation
time.
I do the same with all my art.Example:  Fiber15_Dragonshealingbreastplate -
or - Painting15_HopiFlowerGirl.
This is working better than everything else I have done over the past years.

Two years ago, I spent several months working on my art archives - tracing
back to every exhibition I have done, all awards, etc. All  is now on
computer, thumb drives, and in binders on the shelf - Plus a copy of these
records was sent off to the museums that  have my work in their permanent
collection. Each year, I send an update to each museum for the archives
there on my career and work.  I'll put together the same thing for the
historical society of the county where I live and work as well.

I have been doing the same for my writing history and archives. This all
takes a lot of detailed work, searching down all the years for the
documentation for the different areas - but it is necessary.  Fortunately, I
don't mind doing this kind of work and really do enjoy it.
Jackie, I cannot imagine the extensive files and documents you would have.
Thanks for your good tips!  Lynda

-----Original Message----- 
From: Bridgit Kuenning-Pollpeter via stylist
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 3:08 AM
To: 'Writers' Division Mailing List'
Cc: Bridgit Kuenning-Pollpeter
Subject: Re: [stylist] FW: keeping poems, for Robert, Bridgit, Lynda,and
Barbara, others

Jackie,

No such thing as being over organized, smile.

MS Word can create columns that are accessible to read with JAWS, you just
have to use a few different key strokes to switch between columns. If your
teacher is keeping data in columns in MS Word, it's accessible. And if it's
an Excel spreadsheet, that's completely accessible too, you just need to
know the hot keys for navigating spreadsheets, which is a little different
than Word.

As for a thumb drive, also known as a flash drive, no intricate method for
removing. You simply insert in thumb drive slot and simply pull out when
done. It's really no different than inserting and removing a CD or the old
floppy discs. Thumb drives are awesome, and I use them all the time. There
should be nothing difficult about inserting and removing them. Not sure what
this person who showed you was talking about. And unlike an external hard
drive, a thumb drive is portable and can be taken with you and used on any
computer.

Most computers nowadays, especially laptops, do not have internal CD roms,
so people purchase external CD ROMS. They can be purchased relatively
inexpensively.

External hard drives are great for periodically back up a device, but a
thumb drive is a much better option for backing up individual folders and
files, especially for writers. And it's easier to retrieve these files from
your thumb drive than an external hard drive, and you only need navigate
through what you place on the thumb drive as opposed to the entire computer
history on an external hard drive. But external hard drives are important to
have though, I just think for purposes of your writing and classes, a thumb
drive makes more sense.

I'm also the queen of folders within folders, grin. And I like to date
material I submit and to what publication, so I know when and where I sent
something. I keep these in a submission folder. I also tend to revise
frequently, so I also keep track of what version of a piece I submitted.

Bridgit

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jackie
Williams via stylist
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2015 8:08 PM
To: 'Writers' Division Mailing List'
Cc: Jackie Williams
Subject: Re: [stylist] FW: keeping poems, for Robert, Bridgit, Lynda, and
Barbara, others

Lynda,
It is always interesting for me to hear how other writers, and in your case,
also artists, keep everything in order and at their fingertips.
I am becoming over organized, and I almost said I would enter no more
contests this year as it is so hard to do all of these contests again
without sending the same poems to the same categories.
How I have things organized at the moment is a folder for each year. In that
I have a folder for each contest. Inside that, I keep all the files. Each
poem I enter with the number and category name as required on each
submission. I also keep the two files, Contest Rules, and Categories in that
folder.
Once a folder is over five years old, I start transferring them into a
single state poetry folder.
I also have a folder called "Poetry classes. Inside this are the categories,
"fall, '08,Winter, '08, Spring, '08, then the ones for '09, and up through
2015.
I tend to put everything I want to keep into these classes until I cut them
to go into other folders, like "The Writer Magazine, with the many
sub-folders such as "Poet to Poet," and "How I Write. I also have folders on
publishing information, technology, My four books, with their myriad
versions and submission info. I seem never to submit the exact version of a
poem or a book twice. So the versions are sort of lost.
I do keep hard copy notebooks of everything that has been published, and
some of these I cannot even bring up on the computer. But in those cases,
when I was using a Mac, I have the newsletters, magazine, or newspaper
clippings of what was published.
My most useful files on the computer are the ones for Paid Awards, and
Unpaid Awards. These two tell me whether I can re-submit a poem again. If it
is in the Paid Awards, I cannot, so I always check this before entering a
poem. I have to be careful about submission dates, and often await the
results of one contest to know if I can resubmit a poem.
Several contests are clustered around the summer months, and I have a really
hard time making sure I have no duplicates submitted. Any ideas for this.?
My teacher organizes poem by poem with columns with dates, and the minute
one comes back, she re-submits it immediately. She also records title
changes in a column. I cannot even read columns, much less make them with my
jaws, and not seeing anything. I only use Word.
Because of the increasing complexity, I may instead start looking for
literary magazines down my alley to submit to, and Website's that might be
interested in my main book, instead of contests.
I also run my publishing as a business, but after 6 years, I have yet to
make a profit considering the cost of entering manuscripts, poems, postage,
new electronic devices, print cartridges, hiring experts occasionally, and
taking my poetry class every session.  So far the IRS has accepted the no
profit, but I expect it won't continue much longer.

I am in the process of cleaning out my files. My life will not extend to
having time for re-reading everything I have saved through the years. It is
slow going, for it is like many strings of pearls that I might take out to
read when I like.
Also, when I move things from file to folder, the date or origination
disappears. With my constant little changes in titles, I cannot always find
a poem.
I have used CD's and thumb drives in the past, and one saved most of my
stuff when I had a crash, but my present computer will hardly let a CD enter
the slot, and I have not tried a thumb drive with it, since I got such
intricate directions on how to remove it. That is why I got the external
hard drive with the HD Smartware to back everything up. If it is not
working, I am lost.

Jackie Lee

Computers are the schools in which we learn.
Time is the fire in which we burn.
After Delmore Schwartz

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda Lambert
via stylist
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2015 3:35 PM
To: Writers' Division Mailing List
Cc: Lynda Lambert
Subject: Re: [stylist] FW: keeping poems, for Robert, Bridgit, Lynda, and
Barbara, others

Jackie, I do not back up any email at all on anything. When I am working
with an editor on a project, I just flag all the messages and put them
together while we are working, but other than that, I don't save emails
unless it would really be necessary.

I back up all writings and art works, photography, etc. on CDs and Thumb
Drives - keep them separate, so if I have a crash again I will be ok. That
is what save me last year when everything was gone.
I know you most likely have extensive files from so many years of writing
and probably have a very good system. I would love to hear how you keep
records for your work, you entries, and your archives, and how you keep
track of everything. I am always looking for tips to be more efficient with
it all.  Once things are published, I keep hard copies of all the
periodicals, journals,  and books, too. Usually, I have several copies of
each for my private archives.

I am a file-a-holic - meaning, I have physical binders, one for each project
I am working on. No, I cannot read any of them myself, but It is important
to have them in case that item would be lost - I would at least have the
hard copy to use in recreating it again.  Each book project has it's own
binder, etc. In that binder is every piece of writing for the project, all
of the research I have gathered for it, (I also do this for every art
exhibition I am working on, since I work 2-3 years in advance pulling
together exhibitions for various venues).  Each binder contains  hard
copies, in transparent sleeves to keep them pristine and archival. In
addition, inside that binder, I have a CD with every file on it, in folders,
and keep it all together.  In addition to saving all writings and art works
on my compute;r, I have the duplicates in the binders. When I need
something, or have a question, I can go to the physical binder on my shelf
and double check it there against what I have on the computer - you know,
how we sometimes forget to put a file on the computer or save things in
draft form - I know, I am a completely crazy woman when it comes to things
like archival records, but that is  my background plus I am a Virgo and what
else can a Virgo ever do but be obsessive about everything?  I think it is
impossible to be too organized.

You might ask about the email program that allows you to wee an e-mail
without opening it. I can just zip through all the email so quickly because
I don't have to open them up. I open very few emails now.
Lynda

-----Original Message-----
From: Jackie Williams via stylist
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2015 3:05 PM
To: 'Writers' Division Mailing List'
Cc: Jackie Williams
Subject: Re: [stylist] FW: keeping poems, for Robert, Bridgit, Lynda,and
Barbara, others

Lynda,
This is critical information for me right now, and I thank you. The Center
of the Deaf has a new computer in their office waiting for someone to come
out and transfer all of my files, etc. before installing up to date
software, etc. The hacked theory came from a computer expert friend in Cal.
Who did not open an e-mail from me, thinking I could not have sent that one.
He was right. I did not. The virus theory comes from any expert who has been
sent by the state to try to figure out what is wrong, and they keep
re-installing, or putting me back to previous software. The ones who suggest
a possible virus never seem to know what to tell me to do about it or who to
contact. Cox seems to think my program has covered that.
I do have an external hard drive, H D Smart wear, which is supposed to be
backing up everything. But wouldn't it also be backing up any virus-laden
e-mail?

Jackie Lee

Time is the school in which we learn.
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda Lambert
via stylist
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2015 5:17 AM
To: Writers' Division Mailing List
Cc: Lynda Lambert
Subject: Re: [stylist] FW: keeping poems, for Robert, Bridgit, Lynda, and
Barbara, others

Hi Jackie,
Just this past week another private list I am  rarely on was hacked. We
members got an email that had a person's name on it  that we recognized, as
the sender.  I didn't open it because I was suspicious. I have  an email
program that enables me to see what is in the message without opening it.  I
have learned to be super cautious because over a year ago, I did open
something that wiped out my entire computer system.  I had to have a new one
installed - a new hard drive, etc. So my tech guy put in a different kind of
email program to prevent this from happening again. In my case, it was
fortunate I had made several back ups and did not lose much other than all
my email addresses which I did not make back-ups of prior to the crash.
Now, I am much more careful about anything that comes into my mailboxes - 8
email addresses at three different locations. If you are hacked, or you
click onto a site that will give your computer a virus, you will lose
everything and your entire computer system, as I did.  I sat here and
watching everything disappearing, one by one.  Lynda

-----Original Message-----
From: Jackie Williams via stylist
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2015 5:54 PM
To: 'Writers' Division Mailing List'
Cc: Jackie Williams
Subject: Re: [stylist] FW: keeping poems, for Robert, Bridgit, Lynda,and
Barbara, others

Lynda,
You make me very happy that I do not have a Facebook account, nor do I
Tweet. I have often thought I should, but I hear too many stories.
A really strange thing happened a few days ago. I got an e-mail from Margo
Lagatuda. I think many of you know her from a telephone gathering. Right
after that I e-mailed her about the subject of rhymed poetry. It was shortly
after that she died from a fast moving cancer. This has been 2 or 3 years
ago. I received an e-mail from her some months after that and was advised to
delete it since she was dead. I did so. So has someone hacked her e-mail
account again? If so, how? I am overcome with curiosity this time, but it
sits there unopened. What do you all advised?
I googled myself sometime ago and found some thousands of Jacqueline
Williams names, most from California, and after reading so many and finding
many of them in legal limbo, I did not even refine my search. At the time I
wanted  an e-mail address, and finally came up with jackieleepoet which
still had not been used.
The last person here to help me try to straighten out my Outlook folders
said she thought I had been hacked because things acted so strangely. I
asked how I would know that. She did not know. Do any of you know? Cox said
not to worry if there was just one or two episodes of getting strange
e-mails, which has happened.
Sorry, the questions keep coming. Doesn't anyone else have similar problems?

Jackie Lee

Time is the school in which we learn.
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda Lambert
via stylist
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2015 12:30 PM
To: Writers' Division Mailing List
Cc: Lynda Lambert
Subject: Re: [stylist] FW: keeping poems, for Robert, Bridgit, Lynda, and
Barbara, others

Jackie, and all,
I met a woman last week who works for a large corporation in KY - she told
me they hired someone to work full time at this corporation just to troll
the internet and read face book postings by the employees - she said they
have fired many people due to internet comments, photos, etc.
If you Google Search your name, you may be surprised what comes up if you
are on the internet very much - comments from blogs and Face Book, etc.
I would think that an editor or publisher would definitely do a search to
see whats "out there" by and from an author they consider for publication.
It would be really disappointing to be passed by because you posted
something without thinking of the possibilities ahead.

My daughter is a teacher and she has had fellow teachers lose their jobs
just because they posted vacation photos, with liquor in their hands - my
daughter does not do FB at all any more because of what could happen is
someone wrote something on her page, or if someone would not like a comment
she has made...

There is no such thing as privacy on the internet - really. Things get
hacked all the time and you never know who would copy/paste your work or
send it to anyone else regardless of rules.

I don't know anything about judges or contests - but I trust people to be
fair if they are in that role - typically anyone selected as a judge would
be well qualified for it otherwise there would be no point to it.
I have judged many things and certainly looked at each entry for what it was
without thought of who may have created the piece. I think any other judge
would be impartial as well in this kind of situation.  Here's to a good say
of writing.  Lynda

-----Original Message-----
From: Jackie Williams via stylist
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2015 12:43 PM
To: 'Writers' Division Mailing List'
Cc: Jackie Williams
Subject: Re: [stylist] FW: keeping poems, for Robert, Bridgit, Lynda,and
Barbara, others

Lynda, Bridgit, and those mentioned above.

Thanks so much for your comprehensive responses. I did not know that Google
would have such detail about a person, or that Facebook was fair game.
Several responses above indicate that this list is safe. But here is a very
specific instance of my question.
A while ago I posted a flash fiction piece, something I had never written
before. I was overjoyed with the response, and particularly from Robert, who
said he was sending it to the Nebraska group because he thought they would
enjoy it.
It was a definite ego-booster. But on reflection, I feel I can never submit
it, because I do not know if that group is a list like ours, or who there
might have shared it outside their group. I never got any feedback from
anyone outside this group.
And so, a short short career in fiction writing. Or should I take a chance
and submit it elsewhere? Also, when you have put something on this list for
a critique or comment, can you then legitimately send it to the NFB contest?
The judges would know who wrote it, and that is strictly against any rules I
know about.

Jackie Lee

Time is the school in which we learn.
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda Lambert
via stylist
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 3:20 PM
To: Writers' Division Mailing List
Cc: Lynda Lambert
Subject: Re: [stylist] FW: keeping poems

Jackie's point is certainly a good one - for those of us who work with
publishers and journals, we cannot post our work for many publications will
not accept anything that has been published previously anywhere at all -
even on your own Facebook page. That is a sobering fact, and it comes back
to bite  us if we do it and we would  lose credibility with the publishers
who work with us.  I do not enter contests much at all - only two in a year,
because I am in the groups, so that is not my concern.  But I do want to
continue to have my work appear in publications where I am paid for my  work
and would never consider sending the editors  anything that was published
anywhere else unless it is specified in the rules for Submissions that it is
ok to do so. My interest and expertise is in essays and poetry - so that is
what I choose to comment on typically in the group.  Just keeping up with my
own work keeps me hopping.  This all works exactly like  gallery and museum
art exhibitions - the higher quality exhibition venues  will not show work
that has appeared an any other shows unless it is part of a traveling
exhibition and in that case the entire show travels all over the states and
abroad with the show.  - the best galleries want exclusive rights.  This is
all fascinating, isn't it!

Another good point is that things we write and post on the internet, even in
groups, is often available when you do a google search on that person and
their work.  Particularly anything you have put on Facebook - even if you
delete, it is still available through google search.  I have to ask myself,
"Is it worth being banned from a publication because of something I posted
on the internet in the past?"  It's a no-brainer, isn't it! If in doubt -
don't do it. Lynda

-----Original Message-----
From: Jackie Williams via stylist
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 5:21 PM
To: 'Writers' Division Mailing List'
Cc: Jackie Williams
Subject: [stylist] FW: keeping poems

Barbara, and all, a response that I wanted all to get and respond to.

Jackie Lee

Time is the school in which we learn.
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz

-----Original Message-----
From: Jackie Williams [mailto:jackieleepoet at cox.net]
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 7:53 AM
To: 'Barbara Hammel'
Subject: RE: keeping poems

Barbara,
Your point is well taken. There might be a subtle difference between my
critique group and this list, this being electronic, and the other hard
copies.
This was addressed some time ago by Bridgit and Robert, that this list is a
group meant for critiquing and sharing, and a contest should not disqualify
a poem because it is posted here. I agree it should not, however recently a
poem was disqualified because the National Federation of State Poetry
Societies found it somewhere on the internet. Searches are pretty
comprehensive these days I am told.
I have also collected some of the poems from members here, particularly when
they introduce a new form, like Myrna with her tumbling tercets and
cascading quatrains, and your  poem about seeing letters and certain things
in colors which describes a certain eye condition I can never remember the
name for. Also, things like Lynda's relating of her strategy for writing
that 39 line poem with the same six words repeated in six stanzas in a
prescribed manner, with another 3 lines at the bottom. I describe this
because my memory for the word for certain forms sometimes escapes me now.
It always comes back, but not when I need it.
It is not that I do not trust the ones on this list, but that contests are
pretty specific about not publishing or putting your work on anything if you
are submitting it to them, unless they say you may have simultaneous
submissions. I have approximately fifty poems in submission at this moment,
and I do not want to risk jeopardizing them.
Also, on a personal level, I have shared my long manuscript with its added
"A Battered Woman's Glossary, A Ludicrous Lexicon of Legal terms, with seven
different critiquers. With their critique, " five returned the manuscript
plus the Glossary, and two kept the Glossary saying they wanted to show it
to someone, and whoever they shared it with never returned it.
This manuscript has been submitted to10 contests in the past, and I am
always afraid that I will get a notice that that Glossary is someone else's.
As poets, we are encouraged to save favorite lines, or favorite poems, and
even to make "erasure" poems from then, where you can erase half of that
persons poem, rework the rest, and claim it as your own, being sure to give
credit to the original poet. But already, some of these are being legally
challenged.
The pace of change in copywrite laws is moving and getting much more
complicated by the internet. I wish it were not so. And the argument by many
is that there is nothing that has not been said before, so they should be
able to use anything that has been used before, thus evading the law.
In the meantime, I agree that so many submissions here are worthy of saving
primarily as teaching tools for methodology, or form, or for examples of
creative use of language.
I hope this mixed message makes sense to you.

Jackie Lee

Time is the school in which we learn.
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz

-----Original Message-----
From: Barbara Hammel [mailto:poetlori8 at icloud.com]
Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2015 1:30 PM
To: jackieleepoet at cox.net
Subject: keeping poems

If one has no intent of ever sharing another's poem without their permission
is it so bad to keep them? I have your A Rainbow Came Down poem — probably
not your final copy — because I liked it. Will anyone ever know I have it?
No except that it's one by you. Would I ever print it or give to anyone
without asking you? No.
I have five or seven of Myrna's, too. If a book were out that had all of
them, I'd probably buy it for the final printed versions of them. Guess I
don't make a competitive or smart writer, huh. Oh, and I'd NEVER claim
another's work as my own.
Barbara
Sent from my iPhone

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