[stylist] Topic for discussion

Thu Oct 6 15:25:16 UTC 2016

I think the problem with a lot of self-published authors is they lack good
editing. They either to not edit at all, or they do not have a good editor.
There's a huge difference between a copyeditor and a story editor. And this
can make a huge difference in a manuscript.

Copyediting just focuses on grammar and punctuation and structuring errors.
This is needed and necessary, but it ultimately doesn't enhance the writing.
A story editor knows what's lacking in a story, fiction or nonfiction. They
know where changes need to be made, what needs to be developed, recognizing
the strengths and weaknesses and able to comment on that. Good story editors
will take writing to the next level.

Traditional editors and publishers certainly can be snobs, but several are
embracing self-publishing platforms even for themselves. It's becoming a
more viable option, and cheaper. Several publishers use these platforms to
publish their authors and anthologies. I think the problem many have with
independent self-publishing is the lack of good quality. Statistically, many
self-published titles are not well written, and/or lack proper editing. I
think this is why so many in the traditional world of publishing discourage
self-publishing, especially if you invest money into an education to
strengthen your skills as a writer.

Also, as already previously stated, self-published authors are not making
money from self-publishing. The average monthly cut for self-published
authors is only between $8 and $15/month. So if you hope to make money from
your writing, even if just on the side, self-publishing is not very
lucrative.

Traditional publishers actually do not do a lot of promotion these days
unless you're J. K. Rowling or Stephen King. So authors who go the
traditional route still have to do a lot of self-promotion, especially new
authors. And if you go with a small, independent press, you will definitely
have to promote your work yourself, even if an established writer. The
upside is that a small circle will know something of you just because your
work will pass through several hands. Likely, those in the literary
community and those connected with it will hear something, even if small,
about your published work.

Whereas with self-publishing, if you don't put the word out, no one is
aware.

Big publishing houses are institutions. Likely, they are here to stay. But
small and independent presses are not always keeping afloat. And usually
what happens, is these small presses don't completely fold, but are bought
out and swallowed up by big publishers. Most the small presses are actually
subsidiaries of big publishing houses.

I agree that several people in the literary community look down at
self-publishing, but I think quite a few accept it as a viable publishing
option nowadays. More are considering various options beyond the
traditional, so I don't think it's always a matter of people not accepting a
"new way." Again, I think most are just cautious about good writing. They
want a quality product, and unfortunately, not a lot of self-published
authors are producing quality material. Many want some control over the
process for writers, especially new writers to ensure their material is
meeting higher standards and is good quality.

This, I believe, is why some think you're throwing an MFA away if you
self-publish. Not so much because they cannot conceive of new and different
ways, but because they want us to have the best quality possible for our
writing. Lots of writers are picked up by traditional publishers, and their
writing and story-telling is questionable, but yes, it does depend on the
agent and editors and publishers. Nonetheless, these writers are given the
best, or at least what the publisher believes is the best, team to work and
promote the work. This is not always the case with self-publishing. Many who
self-publish understand this. They invest in a good editor and spend time
with the manuscript and design, ensuring it's good quality. But many more
know nothing about writing and publishing. They just put material out there
with no knowledge or understanding of what constitutes good writing and/or a
good production.

I have my BFA in creative writing and am now getting my MFA in writing. I
have experience writing and editing, having pieces published in magazines
and online. Yes, I want the credentials, that will be nice. It sort of
validates your writing to say you spent time polishing it in an academic
setting. But that's the point. I get to work with writers who are published
and respected in the literary community. They act as mentors, providing
feedback. I also get to work with experienced editors and publishers, learn
from them, grow from their lectures and advice. I meet agents and gain
knowledge of the entire process. And I have a connection to a community of
writers. We learn and work together, providing peer feedback, fellowship and
potential professional networks for the future. In my second semester, I've
not only made friends, but I've been asked to edit peer manuscripts and give
a lecture for a couple of classes. If nothing else, this looks good on a
resume.

Bridgit

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tessa via
stylist
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2016 6:18 AM
To: stylist at nfbnet.org
Cc: Tessa <puppycat at tbaytel.net>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Topic for discussion

Hi Bridgit
I don't know about throwing your mfa in the trash but it doesn't help.
Last year I attended a talk by a member of the Ontario Arts Council, they
provide grants for artists enabling them to carry out their art. In order to
apply for an arts grant you must have 2 or 3 published pieces and self
publishing is not allowed. I think the reasoning is that publishing
validates your work, someone else besides yourself feels your work is good
enough to publish, whereas in self publishing there's no outside validation.
As I said in another post anyone and everyone can self publish, because
they're self publishing they don't feel the need necessarily to be as
critical of their work that they would if they were sending it to a
publisher. The problem of course is that there are fewer and fewer
publishers publishing fewer and fewer books so it's getting more difficult
to go the traditional route.
You read about authors who received dozens of rejections before finally
finding a publisher for their material, it's disheartening to say the least.

Personally I think I'm going to go the traditional route as much as I can. 
The thing with self publishing is that you have to do it all writing and
marketing. If you get a publisher they help out with the marketing. and
promotion, of course they take a good cut of the book income but they're
doing the work. I know people who have gone both routes, one of the ladies
in our little writing group writers northwest four women who share writing
and critique for one another had a book accepted by a publisher only to have
them go out of business, a second publisher accepted one of her books then
proceeded to slash it to a point where she was having to write almost an
entirely new book. So definite prose and cons either way.
Tessa

----- Original Message -----
From: Bridgit Kuenning-Pollpeter via stylist  <stylist at nfbnet.org>
To: his'Writers' Division Mailing List'"  <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Date: Wednesday, October 5, 2016 11:03 pm
Subject: [stylist] Topic for discussion

>
>
> I'm curious to see what others on the list think of this. I thought it
might
> make for a good writers discussion.
> 
> I'm getting my MFA in creative writing. I've been told by the program,
> editors and publishers that if we self-publish, we are throwing our MFA in
> the garbage. I recently sat in on a lecture with a publisher from Red Hen
> Press who once again backed this comment up. He advised against us
> self-publishing because it would be a waste of our MFAs.
> 
> Discuss, please.
> 
> Bridgit
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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