[Stylist] Accessible tools

Thu Oct 3 18:04:00 UTC 2019

In my English comp classes and writing workshops, we do not use tools like Grammerly, but students do typically use Spellcheck in Word. I strongly encourage Spellcheck though only as a final editing strategy as a one off. That being said, it could be beneficial for a tool like Grammerly to be used. My only concern is that my students would rely too much on it, not learning to catch errors without something like this. I see it as a beneficial tool for a final edit check though. Like I said, I want to learn more about Grammerly, but what I’ve also heard is that it’s inaccessible with screenreaders. But if Lynda’s friend has figured out a way, I’m interested to hear how she does it.

Bridgit

From: Stylist <stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Kendra Schaber via Stylist
Sent: Thursday, October 3, 2019 10:36 AM
To: Writers' Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Kendra Schaber <redwing731 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Stylist] Accessible tools

Hi all! 

That would be awesome!!! However she uses Grammerly alludes everyone I’ve asked so far about it. I’ve gotten more feedback claimbing it’s not accessible. How does your friend use it if they can’t see anything? What tools do they use it with? Is there a spasific screen reader or braille display that is required to use with grammary I also have an iphone which is one platform that Grammerly uses since they have an iphone app. I gave that app a try and I didn’t have any luck with it. Does this friend use an iphone and if so, is Grammerly envolved? If it is, how does your friend navigate using it with Voice Over? I’m sorry for sounding ignorent!!! I’ve only recently found out about Grammerly and so far, I have not had a lot of luck with using it in my own writing or prouf reading. For those who don’t know, Grammerly is a kind of proff reading software that helps with spell checking and grammer checking. I’m on my iphone so currently, I can’t efficently check my spelling. If I used my computer instead, I could make my email look a lot better because of its own spell checker. I have not found a good comparible counterpart for my iPhone. I’m a college student who is currently taking a class that is often called Writing 121 which is on the high end requirement writing classes for most degrees. I think of it as the standard college level writing class. I sent something around to my accomidations specailist who was using Grammerly and he reported to me that it spotted I think it was 8 writing errors. I didn’t look into what the errors were, but I guessed that most were probably spelling errors with maybe a few grammer errors mixed in. I’ve heard of writing 121 students making sentence structure errors and missing them in my past writing classes. Mind you, it’s common even in the sighted world. I was the only blind student in those writing classes. I’m pretty sure that all of the students that the teachers reffered to were sighted. Therefore, in my mind, a tool like Grammerly is benefitial to both blind and sighted writers at the same level. The problem I’m seeing is the lack of accessible proof reading tools for the blind counterparts to the sighted writing community. I know I can survive a writing class without a reader scribe so long as I have access to the information that’s required. In the case of keeping up with my homework, I think that a tool like Grammerly will only help me spot my own errors to speed the proof reading part along, particularly when I can’t visit my school’s writing center or tutoring center for that matter. Also, if there is a comparible iPhone counter part, even better! I’d like to be able to check my spelling in a simular way on the iPhone that I’m able to do on my computer. So far, I have not found a comparible counterpart proff reading tool for the iPhone with voice Over in use. Rats!!! If there is one out there, yah, I’d greatly appriciate finding out what it is and where it is located. also also like to figure out the best way to use such an iPhone proof reader because I’m sure that if there is one out there, I’ll probably use it every single day except for when I’m out of cell range. Yes, I use my phone that much you’all!!! 

"When the student is ready, the teacher will appear", Author Unknown. 

Thank you for reading this email! Also, please note that I have eighth grade spelling. I'm well known for spelling mistakes. Ironicly, writing is one of my gifts. 

Blessed  Be! 

Kendra Schaber, 

Student of Chemeketa Community College, 

member of 350.ORG <http://350.ORG>  Salem, 

Member of the National Federation of the Blind of Oregon, Capitol Chapter. 

Writing on my Polaris Braille Sense. 

Using both Gmail and Outlook. 

Go Detroit, Red Wings! Go Pittsburgh, Penguins! Go Portland, Winterhawks! Go Baltimore, Oriels!  Go Baltimore, Ravens! Go Oregon State Beavers, baseball and football teams!   

On Oct 3, 2019, at 03:51, Linda Lambert via Stylist <stylist at nfbnet.org <mailto:stylist at nfbnet.org> > wrote:

I’ve used Grammarly in the past and liked it a lot. But, I use ZoomText  with speech reader mode on.

I was recently thinking that I’d get it again because I did like it and found it to be helpful and saved me a lot of time.

I have a friend who uses it all the time and she has no vision at all – is very active with blogging and does podcasts,  a prolific author, etc.

So, there must be some way that it is accessible to her. 

If you send me an e-mail request, I can forward it to her and perhaps she can help you.

Lynda

From: Stylist <stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org <mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org> > On Behalf Of Kendra Schaber via Stylist
Sent: Wednesday, October 2, 2019 7:06 PM
To: Writers' Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org <mailto:stylist at nfbnet.org> >
Cc: Kendra Schaber <redwing731 at gmail.com <mailto:redwing731 at gmail.com> >
Subject: Re: [Stylist] Accessible tools

Hi all! 

I’m also looking for good screen reader accessible writing tools. I know of Grammarly but when I looked into it for my writing class, I found out that it’s not accessible. Does anyone know if the other editing tools that were listed are accessible to users of both computers and phones with screen readers? 

"When the student is ready, the teacher will appear", Author Unknown. 

Thank you for reading this email! Also, please note that I have eighth grade spelling. I'm well known for spelling mistakes. Ironicly, writing is one of my gifts. 

Blessed  Be! 

Kendra Schaber, 

Student of Chemeketa Community College, 

member of 350.ORG <http://350.ORG>  Salem, 

Member of the National Federation of the Blind of Oregon, Capitol Chapter. 

Writing on my Polaris Braille Sense. 

Using both Gmail and Outlook. 

Go Detroit, Red Wings! Go Pittsburgh, Penguins! Go Portland, Winterhawks! Go Baltimore, Oriels!  Go Baltimore, Ravens! Go Oregon State Beavers, baseball and football teams!   

On Oct 2, 2019, at 15:35, Brad Dunsé via Stylist <stylist at nfbnet.org <mailto:stylist at nfbnet.org> > wrote:

Bridgit

 Just the tools I mentioned originally: Gramarly, Hemingway, and ProWritingAids. They are tools designed to strengthen copy. They'll identify weaker parts.

They aren't a necessity, but they are tools, similar to how we use spell checkers.

Doesn't sound like there are any accessible options rising to the top.

No problem, just checking.

Brad Dunsé 

Brad,

I also do freelance marketing, just recently finished work on doing copy for a company’s website. During my undergrad many years ago, I interned with a PR firm, providing writing and editing among other things. So, first, this group is not specific to creative writers, grin. I’m also a creative writer but that doesn’t pay the bills, ha.

When I mentioned adjectives and nouns and verbs, it was only because you mentioned it in your initial inquiry. But yes, when writing copy, you don’t generally get super descriptive. You do want tight control of syntax though. But with journalism, depending on the type of journalism, you can be descriptive. I’ve written literary journalism, and you definitely use literary devices including descriptive language.

Do you have a specific tool in mind? There are tools to help with structure and format, essentially templates. But again, others I know in the industry, sighted and blind, just know this; they don’t necessarily utilize these. People and companies do use platforms like Google Docs and Quip, especially for group projects. Publisher is another tool, but this is again more for production purposes, lay-out and all that.

Of course, for PR and marketing and journalism, AP style is generally used. I used to have an accessible AP style guide but it’s old and outdated; I now just refer to Purdue Owl’s website.

Sorry if I’m not providing answers. I guess I’m not completely sure what your asking. Do you mean editing tools? Like a device or software that can help edit? I’ve heard of Grammerly but have no experience with it, nor do I personally know any writers or copywriters who use it.

Bridgit

From: Stylist  <mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org> <stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Brad Dunsé via Stylist
Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 9:51 PM
To: Bridgit Kuenning-Pollpeter via Stylist  <mailto:stylist at nfbnet.org> <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Brad Dunsé  <mailto:lists at braddunse.com> <lists at braddunse.com>
Subject: Re: [Stylist] Accessible tools

Hello Brigit,

Appreciate that, your perspective being studied and all.

My bad for not saying, but the purpose wasn't so much for prose or literary writing.

I'm a direct response web copywriter. 

Writer is probably a misnomer. We're more idea communicators than writers.

Admittedly, that is the opposite end of the sphere to this list, and questionable whether I should be on it really. But, I thought to ask anyway since it is a list of blind writers, just in case.

I do have a group of peers I can run copy by for feedback. That's not an issue.

Plus, I've been writing for a bit now.

Even so, it's courteous to have the best copy possible before asking, since they are taking their valuable time to read it.

As good as we in this industry might think we are, trained and all,  A List copywriters use these AI tools everyday in their writing to tighten copy.

Mobile viewing has put more pressure on tighter writing. Frankly, plump use of adjectives, as beautiful as they can be, often have little place in this type of writing. Unless one can reduce word count without  appearing flowery.

I'm not in a position to presume I'm better than my mentors, earning  several hundred thousand a year doing what they do best. Or even someone such as yourself, MFA in writing. So, I'm looking for accessible tools they use, or equal to those tools to make myself a bit more competitive in my trade.

If it works for them, it can work for me.

Maybe that shines a little more light on it.

Appreciate the feedback.

Brad Dunsé 

<image001.jpg>

Brad,

Generally, writers just understand style and grammar. There’s not really a tool other than your own mind and the mind of fellow writers to know, notice and provide feedback on these things. I have my MFA in writing and know several published writers, and each of us has studied, formally and imformally, how to write and the process of writing. In addition to simply knowing what to look for in your writing when revising, it’s good to have a small, close-knit group of fellow writers who can help in the revision process, which includes style, format and grammar.

And BTW, adjectives are a good and necessary part of writing, but the best writing relies on strong nouns and verbs to “punch up” the writing, grin.

Bridgit

From: Stylist  <mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org> <stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Brad Dunsé via Stylist
Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 7:50 PM
To: Writers' Division Mailing List  <mailto:stylist at nfbnet.org> <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Brad Dunsé  <mailto:lists at braddunse.com> <lists at braddunse.com>
Subject: [Stylist] Accessible tools

Hello List,

Looking for accessible tools equal to Hemingway, Grammarly, or ProWritingAid? Or, if there are scripts or setup to make them more accessible.

Do you use any tools for style, grammar, reduce passivity, reduce unnecessary adjectives, and make your writing  punchier.

Thanks.

Brad Dunsé

<image001.jpg>

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