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<p>I forgot to mention that the Monarch has audio output as well,
including text to speech. However, that isn't directly relevant to
the graphics capabilities, unless you're interested in the
possibility of attaching audio labels to tactile graphics. The
Graphiti doesn't have audio, but it isn't meant to either. As Ken
notes, they're very different products with different design
goals.<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 28/8/24 13:40, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:kperry@blinksoft.com">kperry@blinksoft.com</a>
wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I didn’t mention the braille and graphics
in the same grid because I figured people would know standard
braille is 2.5 mm and the Monarch is 2.6 mm which is
undistinguishable. The Graphiti was not made for braille it
was made for Graphics. So the importance of height for colors
was a bigger thing for how the pins ended up do to how the
Mechanics works. I kind of wish that all the companies making
devices would make these as monitors and leave the guts up to
the device connecting. That way you could have real hot power
and the display would be the thing that shows just like any
other monitor.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-ligatures:none">From:</span></b><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-ligatures:none">
Jason J.G. White <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jason@jasonjgw.net"><jason@jasonjgw.net></a> <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 28, 2024 1:26 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Tactile Talk for the discussion of the
display and use of graphics on refreshable Braille
platforms <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:tactile-talk@nfbnet.org"><tactile-talk@nfbnet.org></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:kperry@blinksoft.com">kperry@blinksoft.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tactile-Talk] Comparison between
graphiti and Monarch<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>Just to clarify further, the 96 by 40 array on the Monarch
can be used for tactile graphics, or for 32 cells by 10 lines
of Braille. The tactile graphics can include Braille labels -
that is, mixed Braille and tactile graphics on the same
display area are supported. It has touch input, a Braille
keyboard, and controls for panning and zooming the display's
contents.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I've also been given a demonstration of the Cadence display
from Tactile Engineering at a conference, so I can discuss
that if it comes up on this list. I've read about the metec
displays, but I haven't used one. There are (or used to be)
graphics-capable displays from KGS, one of which I was shown
at a conference in 2003. The NFB's International Braille and
Technology Center has a KGS device. It wasn't working when I
visited on behalf of my then employer, but that may have
changed since then.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I suppose the Canute 360 Braille display is somewhat
graphics-capable, but it doesn't have the equidistant pins as
the Monarch does, which are better for tactile graphics in my
opinion. I found the Graphiti to be very good for graphics,
but I also found trying to read Braille on the device to be
difficult, due to the size and spacing of the pins.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 28/8/24 13:03, Ken Perry via
Tactile-Talk wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I will not go deep into this but I can
clarify a misconception. The Monarch has 96 by 40 dots and
they are the same cells as the Dot displays. They have an
up and a down. They have a rubber cover over the cells that
keep them from getting dust in the mechanics. You can not
have your hands on it as it refreshes. It does not have a
separate line of braille but the separation from pin to pin
center is 2.6 mm. The graphiti has a 60 by 40 set of
pins. They have 5 different heights from 0 to 2 MM you can
have your hands on it as it refreshes. The pin to pin
center is 4 mm. There are two current Graphiti’s. One is
the Graphiti you saw in 2019 and has just the 60 by 40
panel. The other is the Graphiti Plus that has the 60 by 40
panel and a line of 40 cells below it the same type cells as
the Orbit 40. They also now have the two slates the 5/20
and the 3/40 as well which can be considered a slight
tactile display because one has 5 lines of 20 and one has 3
lines of 40 but they have large separations between the
lines like Canute.. For those who don’t know the Canute.
It is a 9 line braille display that also can be considered a
tactile display its cells are totally different and they
rotate like old spinning adding machines. As they spin the
cells are created from two sides of Octagonal rotating
discs. Both the slates and the canutes have at least a line
separating each row of cells. We should also mention there
are as many as 60 companies working on technologies like
this the ones that already have released items other than
the ones I have mentioned are the Dot and the metech
displays. There are also the Holy braille and the Kadence.
But I won’t go into all that.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-ligatures:none">From:</span></b><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-ligatures:none">
Tactile-Talk <a
href="mailto:tactile-talk-bounces@nfbnet.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><tactile-talk-bounces@nfbnet.org></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Rich Caloggero via Tactile-Talk<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 28, 2024 11:46 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Tactile Talk for the discussion of the
display and use of graphics on refreshable Braille
platforms' <a href="mailto:tactile-talk@nfbnet.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><tactile-talk@nfbnet.org></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Rich Caloggero <a
href="mailto:rjc@mit.edu" moz-do-not-send="true"><rjc@mit.edu></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Tactile-Talk] Comparison between
graphiti and Monarch</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I got a demo of the Graphiti in 2019 when I believe it was
still a prototype. However, I've not seen or heard a clear
description of the Monarch. So, my question: how do these
two devices compare?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>From what little I know, the Monarch has both a tactile
area, and a separate area containing discrete braille cells,
somewhat like a typical single-line display, but multiple
lines of same. The graphiti has one single display, which
can display graphics, and braille using font technology
similar to how visual displays work. To me, the graphiti
seems like a much better solution because it works just like
a visual display, and looks like one (albeit it very low
resolution) to the host computer. WHen I checked out the
graphiti, I did notice that the braille font had odd spacing
between the dots that made it a bit difficult to read. I was
told that this was because I was looking at version 1 of the
display, and that the next version would have higher
resolution, which would decrease the spacing between the
dots, and thus make a more normal feeling braille font.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Would love to hear other's thought ... <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- Rich<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 8/27/2024 8:29 PM, <a
href="mailto:kperry@blinksoft.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">kperry@blinksoft.com</a>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The first of these videos is a 15
minute brochure from Orbit but the rest I did when were
working on it. I was the first Blind person to use the
Graphiti with a Microscope. I even used it with growing
fungus in one of my presentations. The one here is with a
pre-prepared slide. In the videos I made I tried to talk
through them so they would be good for blind and visual.
Of course the best way to see the graphiti is by touch. I
unfortunately do not have a set of videos like this for
the Monarch because I am less a Project lead on that and
more just a app developer and tester.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">This first 15-minute video is a video
brochure the CEO of Orbit made using some of the following
videos.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSsoIomrjF0"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSsoIomrjF0</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">These other videos I made and some of
them are used in the above video, but these show how I
have done it. So, you can see that a blind guy did
them. I will mention I wrote the Tetris game shown here
and the library for Graphiti all in python.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>Compound Stereo Microscope<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a
href="https://www.dropbox.com/s/6b4oyzci7tuqisl/MVI_0093.MP4?dl=0"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.dropbox.com/s/6b4oyzci7tuqisl/MVI_0093.MP4?dl=0</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Note<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>After I made that video. We realized that I didn't have it zoomed all the way out. You can get it entirely on one screen but I had enlarged it and changed the filter so I could look at the regions better.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Orion TI-84 Plus<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a
href="https://www.dropbox.com/s/a2jgm5mlktx90k8/MVI_0094.MP4?dl=0"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.dropbox.com/s/a2jgm5mlktx90k8/MVI_0094.MP4?dl=0</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Watching a video<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a
href="https://www.dropbox.com/s/rchodldswyzvato/Eclipse-slower.MP4?dl=0"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.dropbox.com/s/rchodldswyzvato/Eclipse-slower.MP4?dl=0</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Turtle Graphics<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a
href="https://www.dropbox.com/s/q8axbzz59k25zxx/MVI_0099.MP4?dl=0"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.dropbox.com/s/q8axbzz59k25zxx/MVI_0099.MP4?dl=0</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Drawing with Graphiti<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a
href="https://www.dropbox.com/s/ds2mixkcvo9fsj4/MVI_0101.MP4?dl=0"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.dropbox.com/s/ds2mixkcvo9fsj4/MVI_0101.MP4?dl=0</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>NVDA Plugin (NVDA is a free screen reader for Windows written in python)<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a
href="https://www.dropbox.com/s/eh0yg725291hy0a/NVDA-plugin.MP4?dl=0"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.dropbox.com/s/eh0yg725291hy0a/NVDA-plugin.MP4?dl=0</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>OpenScad 3D design for use with 3D printing<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a
href="https://www.dropbox.com/s/4wia6vwktgipmex/OpenSCAD%20with%20Orion%20Graphiti%2020181012.mp4?dl=0"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.dropbox.com/s/4wia6vwktgipmex/OpenSCAD%20with%20Orion%20Graphiti%2020181012.mp4?dl=0</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Tetris<o:p></o:p></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="https://www.dropbox.com/s/tos1oy4i8rsp2d0/tetrus.MP4?dl=0"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.dropbox.com/s/tos1oy4i8rsp2d0/tetrus.MP4?dl=0</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Rich Caloggero<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Accessibility Specialist<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Disability and Access Services<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Massachusetts Institute of Technology<o:p></o:p></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-ligatures:none"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Tactile-Talk mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
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href="http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/tactile-talk_nfbnet.org/jason%40jasonjgw.net"
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</blockquote>
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