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<p>In principle, yes. There is nothing that should prevent you from
doing that. Probably the most useful metric for how well it would
work is speed of scrolling. If I'm correct that you'll need to
zoom in quite a lot, to read that data, the limiting factor would
probably be moving the display to the region in the music that you
want to check on, both accurately and quickly. I don't have either
a Monarch or a Graphiti, so I don't know how quickly each can
scroll, but I believe that both are faster than the Canute as it
only updates one line at a time because it was meant for
displaying text.<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/19/2024 10:50, carcione--- via
Tactile-Talk wrote:<br>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I wasn’t actually thinking of reading music
to play. Currently, I use my Optacon to check the print music
when the translator to braille gets it wrong, so I was just
casually wondering if a braille graphics display might do the
same thing.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I tried reading braille music on the
multi-line braille display that came out of the UK a while
back, whose name escapes me, but the display didn’t show
enough, and the loading of new lines was so slow, that it
wasn’t actually useful.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Tracy<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Tactile-Talk
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:tactile-talk-bounces@nfbnet.org"><tactile-talk-bounces@nfbnet.org></a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Seeing
Hands via Tactile-Talk<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 19, 2024 11:47 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Tactile Talk for the discussion of the display
and use of graphics on refreshable Braille platforms
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:tactile-talk@nfbnet.org"><tactile-talk@nfbnet.org></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Seeing Hands <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:community@seeinghands.org"><community@seeinghands.org></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tactile-Talk] newhaptics<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>Extracting the image data from a PDF is not the tricky part.
Although some displays will support it and some won't,
software exists that can extract images from PDFs into other
formats which can be sent to the display. That is unlikely to
be the limiting factor.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>However, the images that you have described may not work well
when imported automatically. Print music can use small changes
to symbols for important differences in the result. This means
that you would probably have to zoom in very much to see the
detail, making each individual symbol quite large. I wouldn't
be surprised if the 10 by 32 line display on the Monarch was
only displaying three symbols across and two down by the time
the symbols could be felt with enough accuracy, and that might
not even be three notes. Zooming out on that image would
probably shrink the musical symbols so much that they're very
hard to tell apart. There are some types of graphic that does
not adapt well to low-resolution displays. That would be fine
if you're trying to learn the shapes of the symbols, but it
would probably cause annoyance if you were trying to learn the
music that way.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> In the case of printed sheet music, I think converting it
to Braille music is likely the more reliable answer. It can be
tricky, but software exists to convert sheet music to a format
like Music XML with OCR, and that format can be converted to
Braille. The multi-line display will make that easier to read
than a one-line display, and the density of information will
be higher with Braille than it would with graphics. The
software that converts music to Braille doesn't, as far as I
know, support eBraille yet, but you can arrange it for an
embosser with 32-cell lines and 30-line pages for the Monarch.
The Graphiti would not support that as well.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 9/19/2024 7:56, Ken Perry via
Tactile-Talk wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">Yes
monarch and graphiti can I think the others will be able
to but kadence is really to small to see anything large.
I am not sure with the metech one but it should.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Tactile-Talk <a href="mailto:tactile-talk-bounces@nfbnet.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><tactile-talk-bounces@nfbnet.org></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>carcione--- via Tactile-Talk<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 19, 2024 10:21 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Tactile Talk for the discussion of the
display and use of graphics on refreshable Braille
platforms' <a href="mailto:tactile-talk@nfbnet.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><tactile-talk@nfbnet.org></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:carcione@access.net" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">carcione@access.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tactile-Talk] newhaptics<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Most of the images I come across are in
PDFs. Can any of the devices handle an image from that
format? I’m thinking of print music and knitting charts as
examples. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Print music is 5 lines with notes in
various places, often spanning multiple lines.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Knitting charts are rows of rectangular
boxes with symbols in them, and a key explaining the
symbols.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Tracy<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Tactile-Talk <<a href="mailto:tactile-talk-bounces@nfbnet.org" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">tactile-talk-bounces@nfbnet.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Alfred D'Agostino via Tactile-Talk<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 19, 2024 9:17 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Tactile Talk for the discussion of the display
and use of graphics on refreshable Braille platforms <<a href="mailto:tactile-talk@nfbnet.org" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">tactile-talk@nfbnet.org</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Alfred D'Agostino <<a href="mailto:alfred.t.dagostinophd@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">alfred.t.dagostinophd@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tactile-Talk] newhaptics<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8.0pt;line-height:105%"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">Good
morning.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8.0pt;line-height:105%"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8.0pt;line-height:105%"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">Aside
from the development of a full-page display from
Newhaptics, and the Graphiti and Monarch, are there any
other existing devices or ones being developed?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8.0pt;line-height:105%"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8.0pt;line-height:105%"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">In
general, what form does a graphic have to be in to be
translated into the raised-dot format? on these devices?
That is, taking a photocopy and digitizing it into
bitmap; or if already in digital form, how is it
translated into ‘pixels’ on the device. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8.0pt;line-height:105%"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">How
does a figure in a online digital textbook get
translated? Is there a standard protocol / interface?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8.0pt;line-height:105%"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8.0pt;line-height:105%"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">Alfred</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8.0pt;line-height:105%"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Sep 18, 2024 at 7:32 PM Ken
Perry via Tactile-Talk <<a href="mailto:tactile-talk@nfbnet.org" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">tactile-talk@nfbnet.org</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
Yes I have seen it. This is an off shoot of University
of Michigan and was<br>
called the Holy Braille. If you do a search you can
probably find a video<br>
on it. It runs on Air and the under lying technology
has a rubber mat<br>
like material that pushes up pins. It can run on a air
pump or CO2<br>
cartridge. It has micro vacuoles that open and close to
move the pins up<br>
and down. I like how compact the material is and I have
helped with some of<br>
my knowledge in the past . I have my worries about its
power source but they<br>
are showing the technology now and it can be resized to
make larger<br>
displays. I say the more types of technologies out
there the better. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
From: Tactile-Talk <<a href="mailto:tactile-talk-bounces@nfbnet.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">tactile-talk-bounces@nfbnet.org</a>>
On Behalf Of Rich<br>
Caloggero via Tactile-Talk<br>
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2024 5:44 PM<br>
To: 'Tactile Talk for the discussion of the display and
use of graphics on<br>
refreshable Braille platforms' <<a href="mailto:tactile-talk@nfbnet.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">tactile-talk@nfbnet.org</a>><br>
Cc: Rich Caloggero <<a href="mailto:rjc@mit.edu" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">rjc@mit.edu</a>><br>
Subject: [Tactile-Talk] newhaptics<br>
<br>
Anyone heard of this company or seen their haptic
display? They were at CSUN<br>
this past spring.<br>
<br>
<br>
<a href="https://www.newhaptics.com/about" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.newhaptics.com/about</a><br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Rich Caloggero<br>
Accessibility Specialist<br>
Disability and Access Services<br>
Massachusetts Institute of Technology<br>
<br>
<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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