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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>This is an excellent overview. We all have unique ways of perceiving our environment and using the information we gather. Furthermore, what we need and want may vary, depending on the circumstances. A model or tactile map can give me wonderful information about a place I’m about to visit, but when I’m actually there I will note the echoes of the corridors, the texture of tile or carpeting underfoot, the whish of a revolving door or the hum of an escalator, and of course the smelly bathroom. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>With the ubiquitous availability of GPS and other wayfinding apps, I suspect that sighted folks are using actual maps much less than in bygone times. Maybe GPS will be the great leveler; we all will travel turn by turn, as directed by the voice of a robot.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Debbie<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> TAGS [mailto:tags-bounces@nfbnet.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Matthew Gesualdi via TAGS<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 31, 2022 6:30 PM<br><b>To:</b> Tactile Art and Tactile Graphics Specialist list <tags@nfbnet.org><br><b>Cc:</b> Matthew Gesualdi <matt@tact-ed.org><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [TAGS] preferences for tactile models versus maps?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Well said Noel. All those ideas had the opposite effect of putting me to sleep, they made me think of how many ways there are to help people navigate in different, more customized ways. <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Now I'm not sleeping, thanks Noel. *wink*<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Matt Gesualdi <br>Tact-Ed.org<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Mar 31, 2022 2:28 PM, Noel Runyan via TAGS <<a href="mailto:tags@nfbnet.org">tags@nfbnet.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>Hello fellow tactile artists,<br>Warning, you may want to skip reading this <br>longish post, unless you need help getting to sleep.<br><br>So, clearly, you have all made good points in <br>response to Cheryl's questions, and<br>Cheryl deserves high praise for both her work <br>and for the questions she is asking.<br>It doesn't appear that there is a single format <br>or media that is best for all applications. 3-D <br>tactile Models seem to be nice for applications <br>for which the vertical size of features is important, for<br>appreciating the richness of the size, shape, <br>relative placement, and other <br>attributes. However, the third dimension is <br>usually not as important when the goal is <br>primarily navigating through an area to reach a <br>specific point or way points, while ignoring and <br>trying to avoid the major obstacles along the way.<br>It is essential to start by defining the purpose <br>of any tactile representation. Is it meant for <br>esthetic appreciation, navigation overview, way point location, or other needs?<br>It can be quite fulfilling to visit a museum that <br>accommodates visitors with either a book of <br>tactiles or has tactile representations located <br>nearby the points of interests. These tactiles <br>might include 2-D maps, text descriptions, and <br>tactile 2-D or 2.5-D representations. The <br>tactile drawings can be especially helpful for <br>things that we are not allowed to touch or may be <br>too large to appreciate with our hands.<br>The visitors center at the Muir Woods National <br>park, near San Francisco, has an extremely nice <br>3-D model of the park that takes up a very large table top area.<br>It gives all visitors a great overview of the <br>richness of the park, but it does not provide <br>much help for navigation through its <br>trails. Tactile signage and a cell phone app <br>that uses Bluetooth way point markers effectively <br>provide great access to the wonders of the park.<br> It is a nice example of using a variety of <br>tactile formats and other technologies to provide <br>a meaningful access experience.<br><br>Obviously, we visually impaired folks have a <br>variety of differing tactile skills, preferences <br>for different formats, and differing perspectives when using them.<br>I do like to use a 2-D raised line tactile map to <br>form a mental birds-eye view model of an area <br>like a train station, before I go there, but I <br>wouldn't want to try to use the tactile map while walking through the station.<br>However, there are many folks who cannot form a <br>birds-eye overview of a map. Instead, they <br>usually form a person-centered or ground-based <br>viewpoint. When working with the original <br>developers of the Arkenstone Atlas Speaks talking <br>map system, it took a lot of discussions to <br>convince them that the two different perspectives <br>needed to be recognized. Sighted folks who are <br>used to seeing visual maps often try to keep the <br>birds-eye view while navigating, and visualizing <br>their position on the map with North always at <br>the top. Others find that their ground-based map <br>is less of an overview and they let North shift around as they make turns.<br>The same two different perspectives hold for <br>navigators who are visually impaired. Some can <br>only work with ground-based, turn-by-turn <br>directions. The 2-D tactile maps can be helpful <br>for these folks to use before a trip, as it can <br>enable them to feel along the 2-D map to form a <br>list of turn-by-turn instructions that they <br>memorize or record as voice or text notes.<br>Even though they may not be building any sort of <br>2-D model of the map in their mind, they are <br>often converting the 2-D map into a linear list <br>of directions which is actually a 1-D map.<br>These 1-D maps can be rich in information such <br>as turn directions, distances, way points, <br>obstacles to avoid, and landmarks such as tiled <br>floor, plush carpet, noisy air vent, smelly bathroom, etc.<br>Such 1-D maps or directions lists are essential <br>for navigation by many folks. These 1-d maps <br>might be recorded in various media, such as voice <br>recordings, paper with large print or embossed <br>braille, or as digital text on a smart phone or other computerized device.<br>To accommodate folks who need to navigate from <br>this linear perspective, all museums, parks, <br>train stations, and other facilities should <br>always remember to provide these alternative <br>navigation instructions lists in accessible formats.<br>They should also remember that there is not one <br>single media, format or perspective that works for everybody.<br>Cordially,<br>Noel<br>-<br>Noel H. Runyan<br>Email: <a href="mailto:Noel@PersonalDataSystems.com">Noel@PersonalDataSystems.com</a><br>Phone: 1-408-866-7564<br><br><br><br>At 10:26 AM 3/31/2022, Cheryl Fogle-Hatch via TAGS wrote:<br>>Debbie, a good question, and I should have <br>>explained. They are re-opening after renovation <br>>and exhibits are in design. You are correct to <br>>ask about tactiles. That is another part of my <br>>consulting work with them. I'm thinking that <br>>I'll need to provide more background before <br>>posting another question. *smile* On 3/31/22, <br>>Deborah Kent Stein via TAGS <<a href="mailto:tags@nfbnet.org">tags@nfbnet.org</a>> <br>>wrote: > > > Will this museum have any tactually <br>>accessible exhibits? Why are they > interested <br>>in helping us navigate their floors? > > > > <br>>-----Original Message----- > From: TAGS <br>>[<a href="mailto:tags-bounces@nfbnet.org">mailto:tags-bounces@nfbnet.org</a>] On Behalf Of <br>>Cheryl Fogle-Hatch > via TAGS > Sent: Thursday, <br>>March 31, 2022 10:58 AM > To: Tactile Art and <br>>Tactile Graphics Specialist list <br>><<a href="mailto:tags@nfbnet.org">tags@nfbnet.org</a>> > Cc: Cheryl Fogle-Hatch <br>><<a href="mailto:c.k.fogle@gmail.com">c.k.fogle@gmail.com</a>> > Subject: Re: [TAGS] <br>>preferences for tactile models versus maps? > > <br>>Thanks Dan, for your perspective about relative <br>>size and portability (or > not) of models. The <br>>separate maps per floor could be interesting as <br>>a > booklet. > > I asked the question as part of <br>>a project for a small museum (3 floors with > <br>>2-3 galleries per floor. For now, we are writing <br>>text directions to include > on the website, and <br>>I'm advising them to always refer to the <br>>galleries by > both name and their floor when <br>>announcing an event or exhibit. > > The question <br>>was asked about uses and preferences to inform <br>>decisions about > design and budgeting. I was <br>>hoping others had laid out considerations and > <br>>research and data. If not, I don't have plans to <br>>conduct research just now. > Debbie, sorry to <br>>get your hopes up. > > On 3/31/22, Dan Burke via <br>>TAGS <<a href="mailto:tags@nfbnet.org">tags@nfbnet.org</a>> wrote: >> Maps. Maps. <br>>Maps. >> >> At least if the purpose is <br>>navigation. Models would have to be much >> <br>>larger to be actually useful for navigation, <br>>would take longer to >> create, be unwieldy, if <br>>not immobile. I’m thinking of a model of a >> <br>>large building’s interior. It would have to be <br>>the size of a >> conference table probably, and <br>>how could it easily convey multiple >> floors? <br>>More time, more resources, more space, less <br>>utility than a map. >> >> And now I just saw <br>>matt’s comment about carrying multiple maps <br>>of >> different floors to navigate a building. <br>>That’s why I’d prefer a map >> over a model <br>>for navigation. I could carry multiple tactile <br>>maps, but not >> a model. >> >> I think the <br>>model question is part of the “All the Light <br>>We Cannot See†>> syndrome. The blind girl <br>>memorizing everything from the model of her >> <br>>town doesn’t really convey well what blind <br>>folks can effectively use. >> That part of the <br>>novel was the most frustrating to me because <br>>it >> carried with it a host of incorrect <br>>assumptions about blindness and blind >> <br>>people. >> >> Models for other purposes, <br>>however, are incredibly cool. Matt has a >> <br>>model he built of the May D&F tower in down <br>>Denver. It’s a Denver >> architectural icon, <br>>and I wouldn’t have a clue what it looked <br>>like >> without Matt’s model. But if I wanted <br>>to go there, I’d want a map. >> >> <br>>(smile) >> >> Dan >> >> >> >> From: TAGS <br>><<a href="mailto:tags-bounces@nfbnet.org">tags-bounces@nfbnet.org</a>> On Behalf Of Matthew <br>>Gesualdi via >> TAGS >> Sent: Thursday, March <br>>31, 2022 8:42 AM >> To: Tactile Art and Tactile <br>>Graphics Specialist list <<a href="mailto:tags@nfbnet.org">tags@nfbnet.org</a>> >> <br>>Cc: Matthew Gesualdi <<a href="mailto:matt@tact-ed.org">matt@tact-ed.org</a>> >> <br>>Subject: Re: [TAGS] preferences for tactile <br>>models versus maps? >> >> Hi Cheryl, >> When you <br>>say maps versus models, are you thinking that <br>>models would >> have more height to walls and <br>>built-in features as opposed to maps >> being <br>>more like low bas reliefs? >> Matt Gesualdi >> <br>>Tact-Ed.org >> >> On Mar 31, 2022 3:00 AM, <br>>Cheryl Fogle-Hatch via TAGS >> <br>><<a href="mailto:tags@nfbnet.org%3cmailto:tags@nfbnet.org">tags@nfbnet.org<mailto:tags@nfbnet.org</a>>> <br>>wrote: >> Hello everyone. >> >> I was asked if <br>>blind people prefer tactile maps or tactile <br>>models when >> seeking information about <br>>navigating a building. I'm thinking this >> <br>>might be a personal preference, but I'm curious <br>>about different ideas. >> Does anyone know of <br>>research into this topic? >> >> Thanks in <br>>advance. >> >> -- >> Cheryl Fogle-Hatch, <br>>Ph.D. >> Archaeologist and Museum <br>>Professional >> (443) 939-8217 >> <br>>c.k.fogle@gmail.com<<a href="mailto:c.k.fogle@gmail.com">mailto:c.k.fogle@gmail.com</a>> > <br>> > <a href="https://museumsenses.org">https://museumsenses.org</a> >> <br>><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/pub/cheryl-fogle-hatch">https://www.linkedin.com/pub/cheryl-fogle-hatch</a> > <br>> > >> <br>>_______________________________________________ > <br>> > TAGS mailing list >> <br>>TAGS@nfbnet.org<<a href="mailto:TAGS@nfbnet.org">mailto:TAGS@nfbnet.org</a>> >> <br>><a href="http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/tags_nfbnet.org">http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/tags_nfbnet.org</a> <br>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or <br>>get your account info for >> TAGS: >> <br>><a href="http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/tags_nfbnet.org/matt%40tact-ed.org">http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/tags_nfbnet.org/matt%40tact-ed.org</a> <br>> >> >> > > > -- > Cheryl Fogle-Hatch, Ph.D. > <br>>Archaeologist and Museum Professional > (443) <br>>939-8217 > <a href="mailto:c.k.fogle@gmail.com">c.k.fogle@gmail.com</a> > <br>><a href="https://museumsenses.org">https://museumsenses.org</a> > <br>><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/pub/cheryl-fogle-hatch">https://www.linkedin.com/pub/cheryl-fogle-hatch</a> > <br>> > <br>>_______________________________________________ > <br>> TAGS mailing list > <a href="mailto:TAGS@nfbnet.org">TAGS@nfbnet.org</a> > <br>><a href="http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/tags_nfbnet.org">http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/tags_nfbnet.org</a> <br>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or <br>>get your account info for TAGS: > <br>><a href="http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/tags_nfbnet.org/dkent5817%40att.net">http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/tags_nfbnet.org/dkent5817%40att.net</a> <br>> > > > -- > This email has been checked for <br>>viruses by Avast antivirus software. > <br>><a href="https://www.avast.com/antivirus">https://www.avast.com/antivirus</a> > > > <br>>_______________________________________________ > <br>> TAGS mailing list > <a href="mailto:TAGS@nfbnet.org">TAGS@nfbnet.org</a> > <br>><a href="http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/tags_nfbnet.org">http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/tags_nfbnet.org</a> <br>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or <br>>get your account info for TAGS: > <br>><a href="http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/tags_nfbnet.org/c.k.fogle%40gmail.com">http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/tags_nfbnet.org/c.k.fogle%40gmail.com</a> <br>> > -- Cheryl Fogle-Hatch, Ph.D. Archaeologist <br>>and Museum Professional (443) 939-8217 <br>><a href="mailto:c.k.fogle@gmail.com">c.k.fogle@gmail.com</a> <a href="https://museumsenses.org">https://museumsenses.org</a> <br>><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/pub/cheryl-fogle-hatch">https://www.linkedin.com/pub/cheryl-fogle-hatch</a> <br>>_______________________________________________ <br>>TAGS mailing list <a href="mailto:TAGS@nfbnet.org">TAGS@nfbnet.org</a> <br>><a href="http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/tags_nfbnet.org">http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/tags_nfbnet.org</a> <br>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get <br>>your account info for TAGS: <br>><a href="http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/tags_nfbnet.org/noel%40personaldatasystems.com">http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/tags_nfbnet.org/noel%40personaldatasystems.com</a> <br>><br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>TAGS mailing list<br><a href="mailto:TAGS@nfbnet.org">TAGS@nfbnet.org</a><br><a href="http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/tags_nfbnet.org">http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/tags_nfbnet.org</a><br>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for TAGS:<br><a href="http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/tags_nfbnet.org/matt%40tact-ed.org">http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/tags_nfbnet.org/matt%40tact-ed.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div><div id="DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2">
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