[Trainer-Talk] Fwd: [nfbcs] FW: [Njtechdiv] ranking the three screen readers with windows 10 anniversary update

Fri Aug 12 17:48:30 UTC 2016

Wayne,
Thank you for sharing Brian's response to this list. I myself use JAWS and have for a very long time; the original article will not change the screen reader I use. I also overseen Maryland's Assistive Technology Act program. We often see blind people who do not work for government entities or who are not getting support from the vocational rehabilitation agencies in their states. NVDA has been an option for these individuals who may wish to put an affordable computer solution together. I read the ranking article to suggest that in the opinion of its author, Narrator has also become a reasonable option. This pleases me to learn in so far as the choices for individuals who will not have their tech subsidized are enhanced.

The author of the screen reader ranking article writes from a perspective that others share. When considering cost, JAWS would be in that group of screen readers we could call luxury brands. Are its users getting a luxury product compared to other products? Does JAWS maintain clear superiority to other screen reader products? Many knowledgeable screen reader trainers and users would answer no to my above questions. Brian's discussion of the Edge part of the article may well be factually correct and Freedom Scientific may be working on a truly complete solution. In my opinion, my browser options available with JAWS almost always meet my needs and I am not convinced that the other products receiving higher ranks in the article would meet my web needs better. He makes other points I find persuasive as well, but I cannot help my feeling that he has quite a financial stake in speaking out against the article. I cannot read Brian's response without a healthy reminder of his biases. Brian makes a good, well informed defense of JAWS as he should and I am glad that you sent this, Wayne so that we have the point counterpoint to consider, but I do also think Brian has a greater financial stake in winning the debate than does the author of the ranking article.
Jim McCarthy
-----Original Message-----
From: Trainer-Talk [mailto:trainer-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Wayne Merritt via Trainer-Talk
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 12:47 PM
To: List for teachers and trainers of adaptive technology
Cc: Wayne Merritt
Subject: Re: [Trainer-Talk] Fwd: [nfbcs] FW: [Njtechdiv] ranking the three screen readers with windows 10 anniversary update

I saw a response to the original article from Brian Hartgen at the following link:
http://www.hartgen-home.org/node/76
He brings up some interesting points which contrast the article. A lesson for everyone to do their research.

Kind regards,
Wayne

On 8/11/16, Scott Davert via Trainer-Talk <trainer-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> I'm glad he highlighted the fact that there is no support for braille 
> displays. The sad fact remains that Jaws still comes out ahead of the 
> others in terms of braille support. NVDA has it, but there are several 
> issues that have gone unresolved for quite some time. Thank you for 
> passing this on, nancy!
>
> Scott
>
> Scott Davert, MA, VRT
> Coordinator, New York Deaf-Blind Equipment Distribution Program Helen 
> Keller National Center for Deaf-Blind Youths and Adults (HKNC)
> 141 Middle Neck Rd.
> Sands Point, NY 11050
> scott.davert at hknc.org
> 516-393-7561 (Voice)
> http://www.icanconnect.org/new-york :: HKNC: http://www.hknc.org
>
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Trainer-Talk [mailto:trainer-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf 
> Of Nancy Coffman via Trainer-Talk
> Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 8:47 AM
> To: Trainer-talk <trainer-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Nancy Coffman <nancy.l.coffman at gmail.com>
> Subject: [Trainer-Talk] Fwd: [nfbcs] FW: [Njtechdiv] ranking the three 
> screen readers with windows 10 anniversary update
>
> I thought this was interesting, and something some of us might need to know.
> Here it is.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
>> From: Tracy Carcione via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>> Date: August 10, 2016 at 6:35:41 AM CDT
>> To: "'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net>
>> Subject: [nfbcs] FW: [Njtechdiv] ranking the three screen readers 
>> with windows 10 anniversary update
>> Reply-To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>
>> Here's an interesting opinion about access to Windows 10.
>> Tracy
>>
>> Ranking Screen Readers In Windows10 Anniversary Update: The Results 
>> Will Surprise You!
>>
>> James Oates On August 9, 2016
>>
>>
>> Share via Twitter
>> Share via Facebook
>> Share via Google
>> Share via Email
>> Share via Reddit
>> Share via LinkedIn
>>
>> In this article, I will attempt to review and rank three of the most 
>> popular current screen readers that are available at this time. The 
>> three screen readers were tested on the most recent version of 
>> Windows 10 anniversary update. This is important because one of the 
>> screen readers is Microsoft’s most recently updated Narrator. 
>> Although ranking the screen readers might prove to be quite 
>> controversial, I think it can also open up a real discussion on which 
>> screen readers are most accessible, and even the question of 
>> accessibility can sometimes be up for debate. I do realize that 
>> accessibility is determined by personal needs and preferences, so I 
>> will attempt to define the criteria I used for accessibility in this review.
>>
>> What Is Accessibility?
>>
>> Quite simply, I determined that accessibility is the ability to 
>> access that which needs to be accessed. Also, I take points off 
>> accessibility for the screen readers that make it difficult to access 
>> material by being dysfunctional or by making it very difficult to 
>> figure out which keystrokes need to be used with the material. Some 
>> screen readers make you use ridiculous key combinations to activate 
>> website elements or functions within applications. So without further ado, here are the rankings!
>>
>> Number One: Microsoft Narrator!
>>
>> It took me about a day to get used to the screen reader, but once I 
>> did, I realized what a powerful tool Microsoft had created and that 
>> the company was finally serious about supporting a built-in screen 
>> reader for the blind. In fact, the only thing I could find wrong with 
>> the screen reader was that it did not work with my braille display. I 
>> am currently working with Microsoft and HIMS to see if this problem 
>> can be resolved. Besides that one issue, the screen reader was fully 
>> accessible on all websites and applications. I tested the screen 
>> readers on Microsoft Edge, Internet Explorer, Groove Music, Skype, 
>> Dropbox, Microsoft Word, Audacity, Feedback, and the Settings app. 
>> Narrator now uses something called scan mode. You can toggle this on and off by pressing caps lock and space bar.
>> When scan mode is off, you can tab through active elements, use 
>> Windows keyboard commands, and navigate by means of your preferred 
>> preference; such as, items, headings, and paragraphs. When scan mode 
>> is on, you can navigate through everything on the screen—that 
>> includes text, website elements, and application controls—by using 
>> the tab key, arrowing around the screen, or employing letter 
>> navigation. How often has your screen reader announced; “OK button”. 
>> And you are wondering; “What am I saying OK  to?” When scan mode is 
>> turned on, you can just arrow up and read the text associated with 
>> that button. You do need to toggle scan mode off when you want to use 
>> keyboard commands such as control P to pause a music track or alt F4 
>> to close an application. This was the only screen reader that was 
>> fully functional using Microsoft Edge. It was also the only screen 
>> reader that was able to read every active element and all text on each website and application. Clearly, hands down, Narrator is the winner!
>>
>> Second-Place Goes to NVDA.
>>
>> NVDA performed mostly well. The problem is it uses a function called 
>> browse mode that doesn’t actually work at this time. You’re supposed 
>> to be able to toggle between focus and browse modes by pressing 
>> insert plus spacebar. It’s supposed to function like Narrator’s scan 
>> mode. Because it didn’t work, Microsoft Edge was only able to read 
>> active elements, not text, on the screen.
>> It was also difficult to read text on other applications. Like I said 
>> before, you want to know what you’re saying “OK” to. Also, there were 
>> other applications where you had to switch the pain view to see what 
>> else was on the screen. That’s OK if you know that there are other 
>> pains on the screen. But if you don’t, you’re missing out on loads of 
>> information. NVDA is still a fantastic screen reader and the 
>> developers of the project are working on fixing browse mode. I 
>> suspect they will work out the kinks very soon. But can they keep up 
>> with all the changes and updates coming from Microsoft on an almost daily basis?
>>
>> JAWS Finishes in a Distant Third.
>>
>> This wasn’t even close! I don’t even know where to begin! For 
>> starters, the JAWS display driver interfered with the Microsoft 
>> Upgrade Assistant which is a program that allows customers to 
>> download Windows10 Anniversary Update without having to wait for the 
>> automatic update. I had to uninstall the Freedom Scientific display 
>> driver just to download my free copy of Windows 10 Anniversary 
>> Update. Next, JAWS does not work with Microsoft Edge unless you’re 
>> using the touch cursor. This makes Microsoft’s primary browser 
>> virtually unusable. This is inexcusable and unacceptable. JAWS has 
>> also come up with some very convoluted keystroke combinations to 
>> interact with elements on webpages. I also ran into several 
>> situations where JAWS was incapable of activating navigation bars on 
>> webpages. I just want to know, are the people at VFOserious about accessibility, or just interested in convincing people in enterprise and government that they are?
>>
>> Final Thoughts.
>>
>> I really enjoyed the Mark mobile voice that Narrator uses. I was also 
>> pleasantly surprised at how quickly the screen reader reacts. I’m now 
>> using it as my primary screen reader. I of course will always 
>> continue to use NVDA as well. It is an amazing product and will only 
>> continue to improve. They have one of the most talented group of 
>> developers I’ve ever seen. As for JAWS, I can’t think of one good 
>> thing to say. And that’s a difficult position for me to take. When I 
>> first became a teacher 25 years ago, JAWS was the only program that 
>> made the digital world accessible for me. It was an amazing product, 
>> and I’ve always shown a great deal of gratitude toward them, but even 
>> I have to admit that they’re not maintaining their commitment to 
>> customers. You don’t know how difficult that is for me to say this 
>> because I have a great deal of loyalty toward the people who helped 
>> me when I was younger. I hope the people at VFO and Freedom 
>> Scientific can turn things around, but most importantly I applaud the 
>> accessibility team at Microsoft. For years Microsoft has preached 
>> accessibility but seemed more interested in promoting their own 
>> advancement within the field of accessibility. The new Microsoft 
>> accessibility team is finally focusing on their actual customers. 
>> What a refreshing change! I have also recorded a podcast 
>> demonstrating the use and accessibility of Windows 10 anniversary update. I hope you give it a listen.
>>
>> Keep Smiling,
>> Janie Degenshein
>> "Happiness isn't having what you want, but wanting what you already have"
>> Facilitator of ECHO
>> (Eyes Closed Hearts Open)
>> President, National Federation of the Blind of New Jersey Senior 
>> Division President, National Federation of the Blind of New Jersey 
>> Technology Division NFBNJ newsline coordinator jdegen16 at comcast.net
>>
>>
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