[Trainer-Talk] Is NVDA enough for the blind?

Sat Jun 6 18:46:31 UTC 2026

Hello Trainers:

This is a fascinating discussion, and I appreciate everyone who has
contributed to it. You may be interested in knowing that on Thursday, when
much of this conversation was getting started, I was presenting at a
conference hosted by our VR agency here in Maryland; I had been invited to
talk about teaching AT skills for success beyond the classroom—in other
words, how to approach AT training in a way that ensures our students will
succeed in their careers and daily lives, when we're not in the room with
them. So, while I didn't plan to talk about NVDA, JAWS or teaching multiple
platforms at once, I quickly added to my notes a few of the points raised
here, and they generated quite a bit of discussion during and after our
session. So thank you for starting a conversation not just among trainers,
but also among teachers and rehab folks.

The only thing I might add to this discussion is that we should keep in
mind the changing preferences and tendencies in the rehab agencies and
schools with which our students work. For example, when there was
widespread backlash about Vispero's changing pricing structure for JAWS
under their previous CEO, along with widespread cutbacks in Quota funding
for schools in several states, I, along with my colleagues who work with
public school students, were advised to be prepared to teach both JAWS and
NVDA in the event that the district refuses to renew its JAWS license next
time around. This caused me to change my approach; my usual approach has
been (and often still is) to focus on JAWS first, while being sure NVDA is
installed as a backup when JAWS acts up. But I'm now trying to introduce
both as long as they will allow me to install both. Fortunately there's
enough overlap between the two that I believe both can be taught without
them becoming overwhelming. So, for both students and adults, I agree with
the advice Dr. Robinson gave Micah. That said, JAWS still tends to be used
more commonly in professional settings, in part because of the OCR features
and built-in compatability with both the Office and Google Workspace suites
and in part because of the OCR and Picture Smart features which have been
mentioned in previous messages. However, as NVDA and Narrator become more
powerful, that may change. If it does, we who are more familiar with using
and teaching JAWS (including myself) will need to adjust accordingly.

Thanks again for the conversation—I imagine it will be an ongoing one for
years to come.

Chris

Christopher A. Nusbaum Owner & Lead Assistive Technology Trainer

CAN Access Solutions, LLC

Office: (443) 487-6262 Cell: (443) 547-2409 Email:
canaccesssolutions at gmail.com

Assistive Technology Training, Evaluation, and Consultation for Blind and
Low-Vision Individuals

“Services for blind people, by blind people.”

On Sat, Jun 6, 2026 at 6:44 AM Christopher Murphy via Trainer-Talk <
trainer-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> Good morning,
>         I am in full agreement with everything stated here. This is true,
> and all platforms should be considered.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Christopher Murphy
> Email:
> cjohnmurph at gmail.com
>
> this is a CONFIDENTIAL communication and is not to be duplicated or
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> received this message in error, please do not use, disclose, copy, or
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>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Trainer-Talk <trainer-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of micah
> Santiago via Trainer-Talk
> Sent: Friday, June 5, 2026 7:49 PM
> To: List for teachers and trainers of adaptive technology <
> trainer-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: micah Santiago <micah.lus at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Trainer-Talk] Is NVDA enough for the blind?
>
> I'll have some fun in here!
> Dr. Denise Robinson sold me and I'm also in agreeance now that Jaws, NVDA,
> and Windows Narrator should all be taught.
> There are times where I have done I. T. work on a co-worker's PC using
> Narrator. There are times where Jaws is incredible! There are also times
> when Jaws won't recognize a button and I turn NVDA on and it does.
> As someone who is blind, with 10 years of K12 experience and currently a
> Teacher of Blind/Low Vision Learners. I personally advocate for all three
> of these.
> I know software engineers here in Seattle who work for major corporations
> and just use NVDA. I also know others who use Jaws.
> I think the big thing is less about is one better than the other and
> looking at all three as tools, along with all the other amazing apps we
> have at our disposal like Be My Eyes, Quick Assist, etc.
> I also come from a low income background and serve a low income community.
> Our government system moves slow and to install NVDA and teach NVDA and
> Narrator while I wait for the district to pay seems to work a lot better to
> get my students off the ground.
> So not to burst too many bubbles, but I'm a fan of the holy trinity
> approach of Jaws, NVDA, and Narrator.
> Also, if you are a gamer. NVDA is so much easier to add custom scripts
> than Jaws since it runs on Python.
>
> On Fri, Jun 5, 2026 at 12:26 PM Dan Burke via Trainer-Talk <
> trainer-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> > Hi all –
> >
> >
> >
> > Coming from a trainer-adjacent perspective, this is a great thread. My
> > takeaway to the answer to Showe’s original question is that it depends
> > on the individual and the situation.
> >
> >
> >
> > Let me state first that I’ve been using NVDA almost exclusively for
> > the past 15 years or so. The only consistent use I’ve made of JAWS in
> > that time is to work with Duxbury, and I don’t do any Duxbury work
> > these days. I’ve used a number of screen readers since the early 90s,
> > and for much of that time JAWS was the pinnacle. But I don’t believe
> that is the case now.
> >
> >
> >
> > 1.      Curtis is right on the mark when he says that it is deplorable
> for
> > VR to opt for the “good enough” option simply to save money. They need
> > to provide the tools that are most appropriate to that individual’s
> > situation – including the work tools they will need to use and the
> > level of support that will be available to them. Trainers need to cite
> > these factors in tech recommendations, but I think that what Showe
> > alludes to is that, once you’ve recommended no-cost NVDA for one
> > client, VR counselors turn into sharks (no pun intended) and when they
> > smell blood, they move in on one free solution for all. Brian suggests
> > that this might one day become true for Narrator, should it cross some
> effectiveness/acceptance threshold.
> >
> > 2.      Matthew makes great points about teaching skills and
> > problem-solving rather than one screen reader. And no, NVDA isn’t
> > always enough. Sometimes I need to turn on Narrator. (grin). In the
> > College Readiness I’ve taught for the past dozen years, I’ve
> > emphasized to those students that they can’t rely on one browser or
> > one screen reader, because we will always run into something that
> > doesn’t work in Chrome that works in Edge or Firefox, or that NVDA or
> JAWS doesn’t get, but the other does.
> >
> > Or that works better in the phone app, for that matter. If something
> > doesn’t work right when I’m using JAWS, can I complain it isn’t
> > accessible and stop? No, as Matthew suggests, in my job, I need to get
> > things done, so I need to try a couple of alternatives before I throw u
> my hands.
> >
> > 3.      I’ve been using NVDA for everything so long that, if I have
> turned
> > JAWS on for some other purpose and move to Outlook or Excel, I get
> > frustrated because it doesn’t respond in the ways that I’m accustomed
> > to with NVDA. I mention this to underscore that familiarity factor
> > mentioned in the thread.
> >
> > 4.      Sometimes, screen readers lock up. My experience of old with JAWS
> > was that it often froze the computer, and I would have to restart the
> > computer if it froze, but with NVDA I rarely do that, just do
> > Control-alt N and I’m good again. Don’t know if this is still a thing
> with JAWS.
> >
> > 5.      Brett didn’t mention this, but every time we need to renew our
> JAWS
> > license – or now consider subscriptions – our discussions as to
> > whether the time is upon us to drop JAWS and switch to NVDA as the
> > screen reader of choice for CCB become more serious. Once, I was the
> > only one who brought this up, but this idea keeps gaining traction.
> > Licensing has always been a huge headache  for JAWS, not just at CCB,
> > but in my previous years tracking that at the university level with
> > libraries and labs, etc., where we deployed JAWS in the old days. But
> > that was back when nobody could touch JAWS. Now, things are roughly
> > even and we have to ask, “Are the hassles and costs for JAWS really
> > worth it?” For some, the answer will be yes, but not for all of us.
> > JAWS just doesn’t own this space like it did in the late 90s or 00s.
> >
> > 6.      Does the word “bloat” resonate with anyone?
> >
> > 7.      I am impressed with all that Quinton has shared, but maybe more
> > impressed with the number of professionals on this list saying that
> > they use JAWS to do their very professional jobs as tech trainers.
> > That is a real testimonial for NVDA.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks for indulging me!
> >
> > Dan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jun 5, 2026 at 9:54 AM Christopher Murphy via Trainer-Talk <
> > trainer-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Good morning,
> > >         Everything stated here is so true. There are so many actors
> > > to consider when accommodations are requested and what may be more
> > affordable.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Christopher Murphy
> > > Email:
> > > cjohnmurph at gmail.com
> > >
> > > this is a CONFIDENTIAL communication and is not to be duplicated or
> > > forwarded to other individuals or organizations unless the email
> > > says otherwise. This electronic message, including all attachments,
> > > is
> > intended
> > > only for the use of the addressee(s) named above and may contain
> > > legally privileged and confidential information. The authorized
> > > recipient of this information is prohibited from disclosing this
> > > information to any other party unless required to do so by law or
> > > regulation and is required to destroy the information after its
> > > stated need has been fulfilled.  If you received this message in
> > > error, please do not use, disclose, copy, or disseminate any of the
> > > information in this message. Please notify the sender by reply
> > > e-mail and delete the original message
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Trainer-Talk <trainer-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of
> > > Brian Vogel via Trainer-Talk
> > > Sent: Friday, June 5, 2026 10:43 AM
> > > To: List for teachers and trainers of adaptive technology <
> > > trainer-talk at nfbnet.org>
> > > Cc: Brian Vogel <britechguy at gmail.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [Trainer-Talk] Is NVDA enough for the blind?
> > >
> > > Leo Bado wrote:  ". . . if the goal is to secure a real-world job,
> > > users should train with the same authentic, situational tools the
> > > role actually demands. Practice should mirror the workplace—not some
> > > sanitized sandbox with training wheels."
> > >
> > > Showe Trela wrote, in part: "For those of you actively teaching,
> > > placing consumers into employment, or working within VR systems,
> > > what do you see
> > as
> > > the long-term implications of moving away from JAWS as the primary
> > > screen reader taught to blind individuals?"
> > >
> > > These two things are not mutually exclusive.  That being said, most
> > > VR systems and employers (if the employers know anything at all)
> > > know about one, and only one, screen reader:  JAWS.  That's an
> > > accident of history
> > as
> > > JAWS is the granddaddy of them all that still survives on the
> > > Windows platform.
> > >
> > > But the reality is that money does matter, as do the attitudes of
> > > many IT departments, a number of which are only familiar with JAWS.
> > > But none of this makes JAWS inherently superior.
> > >
> > > I am recently retired (as of April 1st) after a decade and a half of
> > > working as a tutor for the Virginia Department for the Blind and
> > > Vision Impaired Technology Tutor Network.  We were (and are still)
> > > effectively a JAWS only shop, which I had been trying to get them
> > > away from for quite some time.  Many clients, particularly those who
> > > will be seeking remote employment, and where such employment is
> > > sometimes tenuous, at best,
> > simply
> > > cannot afford the current JAWS subscription costs if they are not
> > actively
> > > employed.  You can't use JAWS Personal for employment (or at least
> > > you can't legally, and no state agency would ever do so).  Keeping a
> > > professional subscription is expensive.
> > >
> > > I have used NVDA as a functional stand-in for JAWS since almost
> > > 2010, because when I first started tutoring the only option for JAWS
> > > was a full license and the number of referrals and their
> > > irregularity made it financially unreasonable to buy a JAWS license
> > > that I used only intermittently.  JAWS and NVDA have much more in
> > > common from the perspective of "typical daily driver tasks"
> > > (regardless of setting) than they do differences.
> > >
> > > One also cannot ignore Narrator in all of this, either, as Microsoft
> > > has been focusing more resources on Narrator in the Windows 10/11
> > > era than it ever did before.
> > >
> > > It's also important to remember that choice of screen reader as a
> > > reasonable accommodation by an employer does not necessarily mean
> > > you
> > will
> > > get the screen reader you prefer.  They are not obligated to supply
> > > JAWS (though this is what most do) but to supply a screen reader
> > > that allows
> > the
> > > work tasks to be performed.  And when it comes to money, and how
> > > business works, I can definitely see the time coming in the not
> > > wildly distant future where Narrator is going to be pushed a lot
> > > harder because it comes with Windows at no cost and is a Microsoft
> made and supported product.
> > >
> > > It's all about feature matching, and that can and does mean that if
> > > most of the employers in your area of service are almost certain to
> > > be
> > supplying
> > > JAWS, then the focus should be on JAWS.  But if they are not already
> > > set
> > in
> > > their ways about what they supply, that gives you the latitude to
> > > teach
> > the
> > > screen reader you choose and help them get it set up.
> > >
> > > There is no one right answer here.  The number of variables on the
> > > end of the potential employers and on the end of the clients, and
> > > the nature of the likely employment scenario itself all can push
> > > more in the JAWS or
> > NVDA
> > > direction.
> > >
> > > But in the end I've yet to meet a long-term JAWS user who can't make
> > > the jump to NVDA, or vice versa, with relative ease.  These two
> > > screen
> > readers
> > > are not "worlds apart."
> > >
> > > Brian Vogel
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Dan Burke
> >
> > National Federation of the Blind of Colorado Legislative Co-chair
> >
> > "Blindness is not what holds you back.  You can live the life you want!"
> >
> > My Cell:  406.546.8546
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