[Travelandtourism] Traveling Internationally

Fri Aug 3 23:33:19 UTC 2012

Hey guys,
Hmmm. Well to start, I went to Vietnam for a couple of reasons. It's a place
that I've wanted to go to for a while for one thing; although there are many
places I'd like to go to. The other reason was I developed many great
friendships with Vietnamese people through my alma mater Clark University. I
spent much time over the past couple of years tutoring foreign students.
Most of my Vietnamese friends came to the U.S. with funding from the ford
foundation. There were several students in my department from Vietnam over
the past couple of years. In my own graduating class there were a couple
Vietnamese Ford foundation students, as well as several from China, Nepal,
India, Kenya, Ghana and Cameroon. 
I had a few great friends in different parts of Vietnam that were able to
serve as sort of travel arrangers if you will, as well as travel buddies.
Prior to going, I also obtained a National Geographic guide book, and a
Lonely planet guide to Vietnam to study from. Wikipedia was also involved in
my preparation. I didn't get the chance to find an accessible copy of the
lonely planet book, but I brought it along for my main travel partner to
use. In addition, I purchased a series of Pimsler Audio lessons in
Vietnamese, which was very insubstantial. They didn't even teach me how to
say water, though luckily I was able to pick up some more vocabulary from my
friends. I told my friends I wanted to see nature (since I love birding and
plants among other things), traditional music, and authentic, not too
touristy pagodas and other places of traditional importance.
It all worked out quite well. Indeed there are many big tourist sites in
Vietnam, like the old district of Ha Noi, Ha Long Bay, the forbidden city
region of Hue (the old imperial capital), and much of Saigon/Ho Chi Minh
City. The government is really geared towards an expansive tourist economy,
and often this is at the degradation of the actual visiting experience. Many
temples and other ancient properties are now only accessible to paying tour
groups, which seems to diminish the meaningfulness of it all. In Nha Trang,
the authorities are quarrying the scenic surrounding hills and using the
rubble to fill in the equally scenic bay in order to make way for more shops
and cafes. This seemed redundant as there were already plenty of this sort
of thing in the city, and the scenery was being damaged rapidly in the
process. Yet there was so much to do.  
I wanted to take it fairly slow, not zoom from place to place, and instead
spend at least a couple of days savoring the destinations I stopped in. So I
did not go to Ha Long Bay (a renowned World Heritage site popular for its
many oddly shaped islands and caves, as well as monkeys) among other places.
Instead I was able to visit places popular with locals, as well as family
and friends of the folks I came to visit.
 My partner took me to an Island off the coast of Nha Trang inhabited by a
dissonant monk. The government is not friendly to this guy at least to the
extent he is somewhat exiled on an island with no formal transport system,
in an area with many islands developed and catered to by the tourism
industry. All these Islands are claimed by China, even though they are over
a thousand miles south of the China border. This island with the monk seemed
pretty popular with locals though, and one could walk to it in low tide. A
local guy with a boat who was collecting seaweed gave us a ride.        
While I did get the usual treatment I get as a blind person--too much
touching and grabbing, fear and condescension, in general people were
extremely respectful and helpful. I was able to get friendly personal guides
through museums, Cuc Phuong National Park, and other places. At a couple
places in Nha Trang, I was able to try out some traditional musical
instruments. Very cool! Braille exists in Vietnam; but I did not see any in
the public. I never saw any signs or menus in Braille any ware. Of course
this is the case in much of the U.S as well. 
There was a blind Vietnamese fellow that came to study in the U.S. (I
believe at the University of Pennsylvania) several years ago. I spoke to him
briefly a couple of years ago prior to his early death. He brought a lot of
innovative or at least progressive ideas and techniques regarding
rehabilitation back to Vietnam. He helped create some national center for
the blind in Saigon, which I did not visit unfortunately. He introduced
quality mobility instruction, and I think he introduced a Vietnamese code
for Jaws. His influence was fairly widespread among institutions focused on
blindness. During my short stay in Saigon I visited what was called a
shelter for blind people--really an intermediate level boarding school and
training center for young blind people. My feelings on the place are very
mixed, and while I spent a couple of hours there, I feel there's much I
don't know. They make collapsible canes for money, which they sell mainly to
Japan and Taiwan. I am not sure how exploitative this business is. The
building seemed fairly nice, with some computers, bedrooms, music, and a
little playground type thing on the roof. The education seemed quite
limited. It included English, some math and reading, braille, computers, and
the traditional employment opportunity fields for the Vietnamese blind:
music performance and massage therapy. The literature and English
instruction seemed quite limited and useless from what I gathered. Many
people think English speakers call Beijing Peking. The place also seemed to
have something of a religious slant. The guy giving me the tour told me that
he and a couple other head staff were Catholic, and they had some Braille
books in their classroom collection to show it, along with a period of the
class day devoted to religious worship. This isn't to knock Catholicism or a
Catholic/Christian/religious education; I was just a bit worried about the
intent and practicality of having such a focus amidst students with
different religious backgrounds in need of advanced and diverse skills. Most
of the country is not Catholic as you might imagine. Families were paying
the place, which as I mentioned is also making money from the sail of their
canes and possibly other stuff. Only the girls were taught home economics.
On the definite plus side, they had a braille printer, a computer with
Duxbury, a computer with Jaws, and lots of slates and Perkins braillers. The
"shelter" was active in printing out books in Braille. They also seemed to
have a fairly vigorous and enlightened mobility instruction regiment. I
really didn't get to see it in action; but they told me they take students
to different parts of Saigon and have the students find their way around.
Well if this is anything like an NFB inspired O&M system, I suppose you can
get around any city if you can get around Saigon independently. The place
did strike me as rather confined, but again I'm not sure. The tour guide at
the place heard of the ACB but not the NFB. I tried to turn him on--set'm
strait.
As you might expect for a country that has seen so much war through the past
century, and with so few enforced safety and environmental standards,
Vietnam has a pretty substantial disabled population. One friend of mine
works for a branch of the government's disabilities association. I did have
the chance to visit her office and talk to some employees with various
disabilities. The association tries to promote employment and hiring of
disabled individuals, the acceptance of white canes, and some degree of
accessibility in various senses of the word. Employees try to promulgate
disabilities awareness along with the organization of disabled people in
various communities. The government really specializes in propaganda and
promulgation, though I'm not sure of its efficacy. There's obviously a long
way to go. I am not totally clear as to what the main obstacles are, though
there's lots of talk of cultural acceptance, or the lack of it, and the
expenses associated with adaptive tech, medical care and such. The subject
of disabilities is obviously a broad one, and the conversation often simply
does not refer to blind people. It's pretty much to be expected that in such
a rapidly and recklessly developing country as Vietnam, important
egalitarian issues simply slide under moving wheels. Roads and buildings are
built without meeting any kind of accessibility standards, new technology
and learning materials are introduced without the blind in mind, etc. I
suppose this didn't affect my personal experience very much as a traveler,
but it's certainly a subject I'm interested in.     
There were few cars in Vietnam, though cabs are here and there in the
cities. City buses are also not extremely abundant. Most people get around
via motorbike. I think this is true for many "developing" countries, as
motorbikes are fast and cheap. It was true even in parts of Europe I
visited. People that don't have a bike regularly get around via what is
called xe-om, or hug ride. This means you find a person in the xe-om
business, you give him something like a dollar in Vietnamese dong, you get
on the back of his bike, and he brings you and perhaps one other person
you're going with for a ride to where you need to go. I did this often. They
didn't seem to have trouble with my non-collapsing cane.
                        One more thing I'll mention, as I've been going on
for a long time now, is I would certainly be interested in working with a
good travel agent in the future, especially for purposes of traveling to
places where I don't have so many wonderful friends. There were a few
negative experiences I had with travel agents. One time I remember getting
travel and hotel fairs from an agent only to find out from a friend that I
was really being ripped off. After studying in Scotland in 2006, I sought
out a travel agency to help me find a way to see some of the country's vast
scenery in a one week trip. I insisted I was a capable independent traveler,
but I wanted to get a chance to hike and visit places with diverse wildlife
and such. The agent sold me on a no expense paid bus ride with a bunch of
senior citizens around the country for some four days. The bus alone was
perhaps $300, and we rarely got to leave the bus. I had to find and pay for
meals, hotel rooms, and any other destination that required a fee. I was
yelled at several times by the driver for not being back at the bus after
five minutes, and I spent most of the ride wishing I could get off and
actually experience stuff. I would have been better off if I simply jumped
on Scotland's vast public transit network and gave myself a tour. That would
have saved me money as well. I later discovered that most other American
students at the same Scottish university (none of whom I was close with) all
went on some kind of back-packing/bus trip for less money.       
Sorry for the length of this.
Trevor A

-----Original Message-----
From: travelandtourism-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:travelandtourism-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of cheryl echevarria
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2012 6:05 AM
To: travelandtourism
Subject: Re: [Travelandtourism] Traveling Internationally

Welcome to the list Trevor, we met at the convention, and he is a new member
of the division.
I would also like to ask, how did you find the Vietnamese find your
blindness?
As a third world country, they didn't have braille or other assistance, is
the correct?
Also, Vietnam since the war has become also a great place to visit.  They
have the better hotels there, and well as river cruises, etc.  But some like
to experience places like Trevor did, or like Julie did, just go and
experience it.
I would also do my homework if you decide to explore on your own.
Again, as at our division meeting in Dallas, we had a panel discussion, with
Karl Smith and Robert Newman and myself, and mention that definitely talk to
a travel planner, you don't have to use them for all your trip, maybe just
the hotel stays etc.  You can find out what areas not to go to, and when the
rainy season is, and when you can get the best rates.
Trevor, if any what kind of planning did you do prior to going to Vietnam?
Why did you go there?
I am interested in going one day myself, it is a mysterious area to me, my
dad was a Vietnam Veteran, and also interested in everything Asian.
Cheryl Echevarria, PresidentNFB Travel and Tourism631-236-5138 

Leading the Way in Independent Travel!
Cheryl Echevarria,
Ownerhttp://www.echevarriatravel.com631-456-5394reservations@echevarriatrave
l.comhttp://www.echevarriatravel.wordpress.com
Help fuel the "Dream Machine" of the Imagination Fund by visiting
www.nfb.org/imaginationfund to make a donation using your credit card ortext
the word "blind" to 85944 and you will automatically donate $10 worth of
fuel via your cell phone bill.

> From: tattenberg at gmail.com
> To: travelandtourism at nfbnet.org
> Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 00:20:28 -0400
> Subject: Re: [Travelandtourism] Traveling Internationally
> 
> Hey travelers list,
> I'd like to mention a couple of things regarding my recent travels in 
> Vietnam since the email I'm responding to mentioned the subject of 
> "third world countries." Vietnam, like Ghana ranks well into the 
> bottom half of countries in terms of GDP per capita. Well I thought 
> I'd note I was able to find readily many cheap one-bedroom hotel rooms 
> in Vietnam's major cities for between $12 and $17 per night. The rooms 
> were clean, included wifi, TV, small fridge, AC, and bathrooms. The 
> bathrooms usually did not have separate tubs or shower stalls, and I
traveled with toilet paper much of the time.
> The water usually was not automatically connected to heating, but this 
> could be done after contact with a hotel staff member. I don't 
> remember ever needing to pay extra for hot water, though I went 
> without it sometimes, since the unheated water really wasn't that 
> cold. The hotels could sell you bottles of water for perhaps thirty cents.
> My travels were pretty much unplanned. I went from city to city on a 
> bus or the back of a motorbike. Guys from the hotels would be ready to 
> pitch to prospective customers at the bus arrival areas. My Vietnamese 
> was poor; but I was traveling with a Vietnamese friend who was able to 
> do some bargaining on my behalf, which was routine for many services. A
great way to get to
> know a place is to at least try to learn the language and use it.      
> Vietnam was totally awesome. Beautiful temples, shrines, forests, 
> bays, islands, art and people. Food was great--usually--and 
> everything, save land is cheap there. Toilets are often lacking there, 
> and if present may include the squatting type, and--if you are 
> lucky--bidet type spraying hoses; though all the hotels I experienced 
> had the toilets we're used to. I remember staying at a beautiful house 
> in the country side of Ha Noi that included TV, internet, and AC, but 
> no running water or bathroom. The residents preferred well water and
mother nature.
> Trevor Attenberg
> 
> --Original Message-----
> From: travelandtourism-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:travelandtourism-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of cheryl 
> echevarria
> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 3:11 PM
> To: travelandtourism
> Subject: Re: [Travelandtourism] Traveling Internationally
> 
> 
> Well all of this information is good go know for Ghana, which is a 
> beautiful country in Africa, not many people do travel there, but 
> these are good things to know.
> You have family there, and would be nice to know if any services they 
> have for the blind, or are still not there yet.  Ghana is also a poor
country.
> What you mentioned about water and taxis, etc.
> Should be noted when you are visiting third world countries, you will 
> not usually get hot and cold running water unless you are staying in 4 
> and 5 star hotels, and that is usually the norm, like for countries 
> like India, and places in Africa, and some places in Central and South
America.
> So planning on visiting these areas, which many have done, like Robert 
> Newman, if any of you were at the division meeting at convention, it 
> was discussed as well.
> Unfortunately, we didn't have anyone recording our meeting, so I hope 
> possibly that Robert and possibly Karl Smith will come and speak on 
> either our monthly teleconferences or on my radio show the 1st 
> Wednesday of the month, at 8pm Eastern Time, on the WTOE Network, 
> www.thruoureyes.org, or you can go to www.echevarriatravel.com, and 
> listen to the video being streamed live there.
> Stayed tuned for more information on that as well.
> Doug, thank you again for posting this information.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Leading the Way in Independent Travel!
> Cheryl Echevarria,
> Ownerhttp://www.echevarriatravel.com631-456-5394reservations@echevarri
> atrave l.comhttp://www.echevarriatravel.wordpress.com
> Help fuel the "Dream Machine" of the Imagination Fund by visiting 
> www.nfb.org/imaginationfund to make a donation using your credit card 
> ortext the word "blind" to 85944 and you will automatically donate $10 
> worth of fuel via your cell phone bill.
> 
> 
> > From: doug.lawlor at gmail.com
> > Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 15:39:23 -0230
> > To: travelandtourism at nfbnet.org
> > Subject: Re: [Travelandtourism] Traveling Internationally
> > 
> > Hi Cheryl,
> > I have no problem with you using any information I can provide. Did 
> > you
> have any particular questions? When I travel to Ghana I have friends 
> that assist me when i'm their, so I usually stay in a private residence.
> > 
> > Some more things to keep in mind:
> > 
> > Most houses do not have hot water and a lot more do not even have 
> > running
> water. The houses that have running water are not to a standard that 
> we would expect to see in the western world. Running water is good for 
> things like washing hands but when it comes to showering you are using 
> buckets of water to wash with. There is just not enough pressure in 
> the taps to provide for the shower.
> > Do not under any circumstances drink water from the taps. Purified 
> > bottled
> or small bags of water can be found anywhere so drink that instead. I 
> don't believe tap water is treated their, at least not in the same way 
> we have become used to in the west. This is the hardest thing I had to 
> get used to when I was their. Houses that do have running water will 
> have flushing toy-lets, so that is a good thing.
> > 
> > If you want to use a cell phone, such as an iPhone, make sure it is
> unlocked. Although locked phones will work, you will be paying very, 
> and I mean very expensive rates to your home carrier. Bell Mobility 
> was charging something like $2.99 Canadian per minute. I bought an 
> unlocked iPhone 3GS to take with me when I went the last time.
> > 
> > To sign up with a phone carrier such as MTN or Vodafone you go to 
> > their
> office and register for a sim card. You must have your passport to
register.
> When you get your sim installed you then by phone credit from either 
> stores or street vendors. These are cards you can by in different 
> denominations which you have to scratch off a number on the back of 
> the card and enter this into your phone using the phone's keypad. I 
> just get someone sited to do this for me.
> > 
> > Although credit and bank cards can be used at ATMs. This presents a
> problem. Although many people can speak good passible english they 
> have a hard time reading english instructions. So make sure you can 
> find someone who can read english as well as speak it to read the 
> instructions from the ATM for you.
> > 
> > Get used to carrying cash. All people I have met their use cash to 
> > pay for
> goods. All stores mainly except cash and nothing else. 
> > The currency in Ghana is the Ghana Seedy. I may be mistaken but as I
> understand it this currency has to be obtained in the country and you 
> are not allowed to leave with it.
> > 
> > Transportation between short distances can be provided by taxi which 
> > can
> take you anywhere you want to go or via small vans that travel preset 
> routes Larger busses are used to go longer distances of about two hours or
more.
> > Taxis are not maintained to a standard we would expect in North 
> > America or
> Europe. If you take a taxi don't be surprised to hear squeeks and 
> rattles that you would not hear otherwise.
> > 
> > I hope this helps someone. Please contact me with any questions you 
> > may
> have.  
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > Doug
> > 
> > On 2012-07-26, at 8:44 PM, cheryl echevarria 
> > <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Appreciate you helping out Doug, if you have photos and/or videos 
> > > that
> can be added to our website, which our Board Member/Webmaster Daniel 
> Carr can use, we welcome them.
> > > Might we also use the information provided Doug that would be awesome.
> > > Thank you.
> > > Sincerely,
> > > 
> > > Cheryl Echevarria, PresidentNFB Travel and
> TourismPresident at nfb-travel.org631-236-5138
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Leading the Way in Independent Travel!
> > > Cheryl Echevarria,
> Ownerhttp://www.echevarriatravel.com631-456-5394reservations@echevarri
> atrave l.comhttp://www.echevarriatravel.wordpress.com
> > > Help fuel the "Dream Machine" of the Imagination Fund by visiting
> www.nfb.org/imaginationfund to make a donation using your credit card 
> ortext the word "blind" to 85944 and you will automatically donate $10 
> worth of fuel via your cell phone bill.
> > > 
> > > 
> > >> CC: travelandtourism at nfbnet.org
> > >> From: doug.lawlor at gmail.com
> > >> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 19:23:57 -0230
> > >> To: travelandtourism at nfbnet.org
> > >> Subject: Re: [Travelandtourism] Traveling Internationally
> > >> 
> > >> Hello:
> > >> Although I have not traveled in Europe, I have traveled to Ghana, 
> > >> West
> Africa. 
> > >> I found that both Air Canada and Lufthanza were very good with
> providing assistance. 
> > >> The first time a arrived in Ghana the assistent insisted that I 
> > >> get
> into a wheel chair when I got on the bus to go from the plane to the 
> airport terminal. No airplane bridges their. Everyone departs all 
> aircraft and boards a bus to be transported to the airport. The wheel 
> chair insident only happened once though. The second time I went back 
> I had no problem. The assistent just let me take his arm and he guided me
through the airport.
> > >> When in Ghana everyone who doesn't know you personally and 
> > >> provides you
> a service of any kind is expected to get paid a small amount. I gave 
> them 10 GHS, about $5.20 canadian. Strangely, this only happened on 
> arrival, not when I departed the country.
> > >> 
> > >> If anyone would like to know more about my travels to Ghana just ask.

> > >> 
> > >> Doug
> > >> 
> > >> Sent from my iPad
> > >> 
> > >> On 2012-07-26, at 3:29 PM, Keitei Colton 
> > >> <kekiangeles111 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >> 
> > >>> Hello,
> > >>> 
> > >>> Is there anyone that has traveled internationally through 
> > >>> Europe? If
> so, is there any tips for doing it?
> > >>> 
> > >>> Thanks,
> > >>> 
> > >>> Keitei Colton
> > >>> 555 South 200 East
> > >>> Salt Lake City, UT 84111
> > >>> kekiangeles111 at gmail.com
> > >>> (435)-901-4265
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> Travelandtourism mailing list
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> > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/travelandtourism_nfbnet.org
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> > >>> info for
> Travelandtourism:
> > >>>
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> lor%40
> gmail.com
> > >> 
> > >> _______________________________________________
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> dmaxx%
> 40hotmail.com
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 		 	   		  
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> > 
> > 
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