[Travelandtourism] Good morning all something not very happy with over at COSTCO on Monday

Wed Feb 22 17:21:24 UTC 2012

Whether it's objectionable or not the ADA says one cannot ask for such 
proof.

Margo and Arrow
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cindy Handel" <cindy425 at verizon.net>
To: "NFB Travel and Tourism Division List" <travelandtourism at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 12:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Travelandtourism] Good morning all something not very happy 
with over at COSTCO on Monday

> I'm just curious...I don't have a guide dog, but my husband does.  I've 
> heard, for a long time, discussion about people objecting to proving that 
> their dog is a guide dog.  Why is this request so objectionable?  I 
> thought that was why the schools issue the identification cards.
>
> Cindy
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Julie J.
> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 8:46 AM
> To: NFB Travel and Tourism Division List
> Subject: Re: [Travelandtourism] Good morning all something not very happy 
> with over at COSTCO on Monday
>
> Cosco is a bit of a sticky situation.  I want to say it was in the early
> to mid 90's there was a court case with a service dog handler vs.
> Cosco.  It centered around these same issues of
> certification/paperwork/proof.  the case was handled quite badly and the
> judge ruled that Cosco could ask for documentation. I can't remember all
> the details of the case, but it set a very bad precedent.  To me it
> looks obvious that the verdict is in direct opposition to the ADA, but
> the judge didn't agree.  I'm remembering that the case was appealed with
> the same results.  The case did not make it to the Supreme Court.
>
> I would take a guess this is why Cosco has the service dog policy they
> do and why they get away with it.  Not saying it's right.  Certainly if
> someone has a solid case and wants to take it back to court that could
> be a very good thing because it could overturn the previous ruling.
>
> Good luck with it,
> Julie
>
>
>
> On 2/22/2012 6:54 AM, cheryl echevarria wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> I am posting this to not only the NYAGDU (NY State Division of the 
>> National Association of Guide Dog Users), but also to the Travel and 
>> Tourism Division), both proud divisions of the National Federation of the 
>> Blind.
>> Traveling is also traveling with accessible entrance to all locations, 
>> with cane, sighted guide, as well as, guide dog, or other forms of 
>> mobility that one is comfortable with.
>> This past Monday, Presidents Day, Nelson, Maxx (my guide  dog) and 
>> myself, did our bi-monthly shopping of Costco, if some of you do not know 
>> what COSTCO is, it is one of the those membership stores where you buy in 
>> bulk, we don't buy a lot because it is the 2 of us, and I also buy dog 
>> food there.
>> We have been members of Costco for over 12 years.
>> When we entered the store after showing our membership card, the lady at 
>> the door, asked to see my dogs certification paperwork.
>> Now for those who are not blind and do not know the ADA laws, first there 
>> is no  paperwork for a guide dog, and certified, just no such thing.  The 
>> schools must be licensed just like any other business, in fact, some 
>> train there own guide dogs, so this statement that the lady made, was 
>> incorrect, also the training for the dog makes it a guide dog.
>> > From there, I said that I am just going to speak to the store's 
>> > manager, since I had been in this situation prior, but the manager 
>> > always apologized for the incorrect way the person talk to me, and also 
>> > that the employees didn't know better.
>> That day was different, the manager, told me that it was correct that I 
>> need to show paperwork on my dog that he is a guide dog, now, I am 
>> standing in front of him with dark glasses that blind people wear, and 
>> guide dog in harness.
>> I stated that there is no such  thing, what makes the dog a guide dog, or 
>> for anyone else that is disabled, is the disability and the training that 
>> the dog gets to be a service animal, he proceeded to tell me that others 
>> have shown him this paperwork, again, what paperwork. I stated not only 
>> am I a graduate of the Guide Dog Foundation of Smithtown, that was less 
>> then 5 minutes away from this location, but that I am a member of that 
>> National Association of Guide Dog Users, a proud division of the National 
>> Federation of the Blind, and we are one of the organizations that help 
>> make and enforce the ADA laws pertaining to this.  He basically almost 
>> called me a liar, he said that I am not going to continue the 
>> conversation.
>> He did not tell me I had to leave, but I want to the customer service 
>> desk with my husband to get the corporate phone number, I tried to call 
>> on my cell phone while I was there, but the reception was really bad, and 
>> so we did shop, and then when we got home I made the calls.
>> My first was to customer service, the young lady on the phone that her 
>> immediate supervisor said that was the policy of Costco to ask for the 
>> paperwork, she gave me his name, I was writing all of this down, so that 
>> I could give to Marion Gwizdala, President of NAGDU, and Margo Downey, 
>> President of the NY affiliate of NAGDU (NYAGDU).
>> I was then given the number to call for the legal department, when I did 
>> this they said that I couldn't speak to anyone but that I was given the 
>> name of the Regional Vice President of the Area.  I called him, and he 
>> was not there, so I left him a detailed message.
>> Within a half and hour, the General Manager, at the store that I went to, 
>> called me back, and it sounded like he was forced to apologize to me, he 
>> didn't realize that I left the store, or the fact that I was actually 
>> blind.
>> I informed him, that I never left the store, but went to get the phone 
>> numbers that I needed, and did shop.  He began to make excuses for 
>> himself, that he was following training procedures, and that he said, 
>> that a service animal must have a harness on or a blanket, or something 
>> indicated that they are working dogs. I also corrected him on that 
>> saying, that is not correct, I can come into this store without a cape, 
>> harness, etc on the dog, and the only thing you can ask me is that a 
>> working dog/service, guide dog, and what service does the dog provide.
>> He was very patronizing still.
>> I didn't hear from his Vice President until after 5pm when he was in his 
>> car driving home from work.
>> The man kept saying, that is should be obvious that someone is blind and 
>> common sense, but I stated, not always, I do not always wear my dark 
>> glasses, not all blind people are totally blind.  There are also some 
>> people who are not blind that use a service animal, children that are 
>> autistic, diabetic, seizure, deaf, etc.  It is not always a 
>> characteristic of the person, to have something that  identifies them as 
>> being disabled, and you are not allowed to ask the disability either.
>> He also said, that he hates enforcing policy, I said it is not costco's 
>> policy it is the ADA law.  I  was trying to give him our National Hotline 
>> for NAGDU, and if anyone every has questions about Guide Dogs, ADA, etc, 
>> our Hotline number is 1-888-NAGDU-411 or 1-888-624-3841, that is how I 
>> found out he was on his car phone on the way home, he told me that he 
>> couldn't take the number because he was driving home from work.  Gee, I 
>> was really important to speak to on this. I mentioned that in NY State it 
>> is a civil violation of our law, other states have criminal laws in 
>> reference to these violations.
>> After this, I informed the people who needed to know such as Marion and 
>> Margo.  Mr. Gwizdala, first contact the Costco in his area, and asked 
>> there policy, he was told basically the same thing, as myself, he also 
>> got the corporate information, and has been in talks with Costco in 
>> Seattle. It seems that they are saying that they are a private 
>> organization and that you need to pay a membership to go there and that 
>> they are outside the ADA.
>> FYI, if that is true, which it is not, then I cannot take my dog to my 
>> gym, it is a private membership, or go to a restaurant you have to pay to 
>> eat there, or go to a movie or theater.  So that I couldn't go anywhere 
>> with my dog.
>> I would say if you are a guide dog user, or even if you use a service 
>> animal, and the laws have changed to what kind of animal is considered a 
>> service dog.
>> It cannot be a comfort dog, it cannot be the dog you carry around in your 
>> pocketbook.  It also must be either a dog, or a guide horse, no cats, 
>> birds, snakes, monkeys, etc any more.  You must have a valid medical 
>> disability that you can get one.  So many disabilities and illnesses can 
>> qualify for a service animal now.
>> Stayed tuned for more
>> Leading the Way in Independent Travel!
>>
>> Cheryl Echevarria
>> http://www.echevarriatravel.com
>> 631-456-5394
>> reservations at echevarriatravel.com
>>
>> For daily updates read our blog at
>> http://www.echevarriatravel.wordpress.com
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>
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