[Travelandtourism] Good morning all something not very happy with over at COSTCO on Monday

Wed Feb 22 17:37:49 UTC 2012

Cindy,

Because it's illegal.

Julie
On 2/22/2012 11:12 AM, Cindy Handel wrote:
> I'm just curious...I don't have a guide dog, but my husband does.  
> I've heard, for a long time, discussion about people objecting to 
> proving that their dog is a guide dog.  Why is this request so 
> objectionable?  I thought that was why the schools issue the 
> identification cards.
>
> Cindy
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Julie J.
> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 8:46 AM
> To: NFB Travel and Tourism Division List
> Subject: Re: [Travelandtourism] Good morning all something not very 
> happy with over at COSTCO on Monday
>
> Cosco is a bit of a sticky situation.  I want to say it was in the early
> to mid 90's there was a court case with a service dog handler vs.
> Cosco.  It centered around these same issues of
> certification/paperwork/proof.  the case was handled quite badly and the
> judge ruled that Cosco could ask for documentation. I can't remember all
> the details of the case, but it set a very bad precedent.  To me it
> looks obvious that the verdict is in direct opposition to the ADA, but
> the judge didn't agree.  I'm remembering that the case was appealed with
> the same results.  The case did not make it to the Supreme Court.
>
> I would take a guess this is why Cosco has the service dog policy they
> do and why they get away with it.  Not saying it's right.  Certainly if
> someone has a solid case and wants to take it back to court that could
> be a very good thing because it could overturn the previous ruling.
>
> Good luck with it,
> Julie
>
>
>
> On 2/22/2012 6:54 AM, cheryl echevarria wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> I am posting this to not only the NYAGDU (NY State Division of the 
>> National Association of Guide Dog Users), but also to the Travel and 
>> Tourism Division), both proud divisions of the National Federation of 
>> the Blind.
>> Traveling is also traveling with accessible entrance to all 
>> locations, with cane, sighted guide, as well as, guide dog, or other 
>> forms of mobility that one is comfortable with.
>> This past Monday, Presidents Day, Nelson, Maxx (my guide  dog) and 
>> myself, did our bi-monthly shopping of Costco, if some of you do not 
>> know what COSTCO is, it is one of the those membership stores where 
>> you buy in bulk, we don't buy a lot because it is the 2 of us, and I 
>> also buy dog food there.
>> We have been members of Costco for over 12 years.
>> When we entered the store after showing our membership card, the lady 
>> at the door, asked to see my dogs certification paperwork.
>> Now for those who are not blind and do not know the ADA laws, first 
>> there is no  paperwork for a guide dog, and certified, just no such 
>> thing.  The schools must be licensed just like any other business, in 
>> fact, some train there own guide dogs, so this statement that the 
>> lady made, was incorrect, also the training for the dog makes it a 
>> guide dog.
>> > From there, I said that I am just going to speak to the store's 
>> manager, > since I had been in this situation prior, but the manager 
>> always > apologized for the incorrect way the person talk to me, and 
>> also that > the employees didn't know better.
>> That day was different, the manager, told me that it was correct that 
>> I need to show paperwork on my dog that he is a guide dog, now, I am 
>> standing in front of him with dark glasses that blind people wear, 
>> and guide dog in harness.
>> I stated that there is no such  thing, what makes the dog a guide 
>> dog, or for anyone else that is disabled, is the disability and the 
>> training that the dog gets to be a service animal, he proceeded to 
>> tell me that others have shown him this paperwork, again, what 
>> paperwork. I stated not only am I a graduate of the Guide Dog 
>> Foundation of Smithtown, that was less then 5 minutes away from this 
>> location, but that I am a member of that National Association of 
>> Guide Dog Users, a proud division of the National Federation of the 
>> Blind, and we are one of the organizations that help make and enforce 
>> the ADA laws pertaining to this.  He basically almost called me a 
>> liar, he said that I am not going to continue the conversation.
>> He did not tell me I had to leave, but I want to the customer service 
>> desk with my husband to get the corporate phone number, I tried to 
>> call on my cell phone while I was there, but the reception was really 
>> bad, and so we did shop, and then when we got home I made the calls.
>> My first was to customer service, the young lady on the phone that 
>> her immediate supervisor said that was the policy of Costco to ask 
>> for the paperwork, she gave me his name, I was writing all of this 
>> down, so that I could give to Marion Gwizdala, President of NAGDU, 
>> and Margo Downey, President of the NY affiliate of NAGDU (NYAGDU).
>> I was then given the number to call for the legal department, when I 
>> did this they said that I couldn't speak to anyone but that I was 
>> given the name of the Regional Vice President of the Area.  I called 
>> him, and he was not there, so I left him a detailed message.
>> Within a half and hour, the General Manager, at the store that I went 
>> to, called me back, and it sounded like he was forced to apologize to 
>> me, he didn't realize that I left the store, or the fact that I was 
>> actually blind.
>> I informed him, that I never left the store, but went to get the 
>> phone numbers that I needed, and did shop.  He began to make excuses 
>> for himself, that he was following training procedures, and that he 
>> said, that a service animal must have a harness on or a blanket, or 
>> something indicated that they are working dogs. I also corrected him 
>> on that saying, that is not correct, I can come into this store 
>> without a cape, harness, etc on the dog, and the only thing you can 
>> ask me is that a working dog/service, guide dog, and what service 
>> does the dog provide.
>> He was very patronizing still.
>> I didn't hear from his Vice President until after 5pm when he was in 
>> his car driving home from work.
>> The man kept saying, that is should be obvious that someone is blind 
>> and common sense, but I stated, not always, I do not always wear my 
>> dark glasses, not all blind people are totally blind.  There are also 
>> some people who are not blind that use a service animal, children 
>> that are autistic, diabetic, seizure, deaf, etc.  It is not always a 
>> characteristic of the person, to have something that  identifies them 
>> as being disabled, and you are not allowed to ask the disability either.
>> He also said, that he hates enforcing policy, I said it is not 
>> costco's policy it is the ADA law.  I  was trying to give him our 
>> National Hotline for NAGDU, and if anyone every has questions about 
>> Guide Dogs, ADA, etc, our Hotline number is 1-888-NAGDU-411 or 
>> 1-888-624-3841, that is how I found out he was on his car phone on 
>> the way home, he told me that he couldn't take the number because he 
>> was driving home from work.  Gee, I was really important to speak to 
>> on this. I mentioned that in NY State it is a civil violation of our 
>> law, other states have criminal laws in reference to these violations.
>> After this, I informed the people who needed to know such as Marion 
>> and Margo.  Mr. Gwizdala, first contact the Costco in his area, and 
>> asked there policy, he was told basically the same thing, as myself, 
>> he also got the corporate information, and has been in talks with 
>> Costco in Seattle. It seems that they are saying that they are a 
>> private organization and that you need to pay a membership to go 
>> there and that they are outside the ADA.
>> FYI, if that is true, which it is not, then I cannot take my dog to 
>> my gym, it is a private membership, or go to a restaurant you have to 
>> pay to eat there, or go to a movie or theater.  So that I couldn't go 
>> anywhere with my dog.
>> I would say if you are a guide dog user, or even if you use a service 
>> animal, and the laws have changed to what kind of animal is 
>> considered a service dog.
>> It cannot be a comfort dog, it cannot be the dog you carry around in 
>> your pocketbook.  It also must be either a dog, or a guide horse, no 
>> cats, birds, snakes, monkeys, etc any more.  You must have a valid 
>> medical disability that you can get one.  So many disabilities and 
>> illnesses can qualify for a service animal now.
>> Stayed tuned for more
>> Leading the Way in Independent Travel!
>>
>> Cheryl Echevarria
>> http://www.echevarriatravel.com
>> 631-456-5394
>> reservations at echevarriatravel.com
>>
>> For daily updates read our blog at
>> http://www.echevarriatravel.wordpress.com
>>      _______________________________________________
>> Travelandtourism mailing list
>> Travelandtourism at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/travelandtourism_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> Travelandtourism:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/travelandtourism_nfbnet.org/julielj%40neb.rr.com 
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Travelandtourism mailing list
> Travelandtourism at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/travelandtourism_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Travelandtourism:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/travelandtourism_nfbnet.org/cindy425%40verizon.net 
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Travelandtourism mailing list
> Travelandtourism at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/travelandtourism_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Travelandtourism:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/travelandtourism_nfbnet.org/julielj%40neb.rr.com 
>
>