[Travelandtourism] In-Store And Online Shopping

Wed Feb 22 18:46:40 UTC 2012

Yep, and, there are things I can shop for online or in the store, but, there 
are things I must go to look at at a brick and mortar store.

margo andArrow
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com>
To: "NFB Travel and Tourism Division List" <travelandtourism at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 1:18 PM
Subject: [Travelandtourism] In-Store And Online Shopping

> Hello Cheryl and everyone,
>
>    And put convenience ahead of supposed dependence when necessary. If you
> have someone to drive you to a place like Sam's or cosco and drive you 
> home
> with your load it works out. However, tell me of someone who lugged 
> several
> cases on a public bus or a train? There are times when it's a good idea to
> get out of the house and do in-store shopping but there are also instances
> when shopping online has its advantages as in our case. For example why
> should we waste our time going to the grocery store to pick up dogfood 
> when
> we could have it delivered to our doorstep freeing us to make better use 
> of
> our time doing other projects such as building the division's Web site? 
> When
> and where we shop is a matter we as blind persons must decide for 
> ourselves
> just as the sighted do.
>
> Peter Donahue
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "cheryl echevarria" <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
> To: "travelandtourism" <travelandtourism at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 11:05 AM
> Subject: Re: [Travelandtourism] Good morning all something not very happy
> with over at COSTCO on Monday
>
>
>
>
> No Offense Peter on this.
> But that is how we become less independent, we need to be out shopping and
> being involved.
> Some people even become hermits so to say, and that people don't want to
> leave there homes because of the online shopping, yes I do online shopping
> and basically I am an internet business, I don't have a physical office in
> my home, or I would have to pay a varence I think that is how it is 
> spelled,
> with the town where I live to have a physical business in my home, etc 
> with
> certain insurances to cover business in my home.
> But that being said, I think that was the wrong way to go.
> Again, I know Peter was joking, and I am not yelling or anything at this.
>
> Leading the Way in Independent Travel!
>
> Cheryl Echevarria
> http://www.echevarriatravel.com
> 631-456-5394
> reservations at echevarriatravel.com
>
> For daily updates read our blog at
> http://www.echevarriatravel.wordpress.com
>
>> From: pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com
>> To: travelandtourism at nfbnet.org
>> Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 10:30:12 -0600
>> Subject: Re: [Travelandtourism] Good morning all something not very happy
>> with over at COSTCO on Monday
>>
>> Good morning everyone,
>>
>>     Praise God for online shopping!
>>
>> Peter Donahue
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Julie J." <julielj at neb.rr.com>
>> To: "NFB Travel and Tourism Division List" <travelandtourism at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 7:46 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Travelandtourism] Good morning all something not very happy
>> with over at COSTCO on Monday
>>
>>
>> Cosco is a bit of a sticky situation.  I want to say it was in the early
>> to mid 90's there was a court case with a service dog handler vs.
>> Cosco.  It centered around these same issues of
>> certification/paperwork/proof.  the case was handled quite badly and the
>> judge ruled that Cosco could ask for documentation. I can't remember all
>> the details of the case, but it set a very bad precedent.  To me it
>> looks obvious that the verdict is in direct opposition to the ADA, but
>> the judge didn't agree.  I'm remembering that the case was appealed with
>> the same results.  The case did not make it to the Supreme Court.
>>
>> I would take a guess this is why Cosco has the service dog policy they
>> do and why they get away with it.  Not saying it's right.  Certainly if
>> someone has a solid case and wants to take it back to court that could
>> be a very good thing because it could overturn the previous ruling.
>>
>> Good luck with it,
>> Julie
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2/22/2012 6:54 AM, cheryl echevarria wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I am posting this to not only the NYAGDU (NY State Division of the
>> > National Association of Guide Dog Users), but also to the Travel and
>> > Tourism Division), both proud divisions of the National Federation of
>> > the
>> > Blind.
>> > Traveling is also traveling with accessible entrance to all locations,
>> > with cane, sighted guide, as well as, guide dog, or other forms of
>> > mobility that one is comfortable with.
>> > This past Monday, Presidents Day, Nelson, Maxx (my guide  dog) and
>> > myself,
>> > did our bi-monthly shopping of Costco, if some of you do not know what
>> > COSTCO is, it is one of the those membership stores where you buy in
>> > bulk,
>> > we don't buy a lot because it is the 2 of us, and I also buy dog food
>> > there.
>> > We have been members of Costco for over 12 years.
>> > When we entered the store after showing our membership card, the lady 
>> > at
>> > the door, asked to see my dogs certification paperwork.
>> > Now for those who are not blind and do not know the ADA laws, first
>> > there
>> > is no  paperwork for a guide dog, and certified, just no such thing.
>> > The
>> > schools must be licensed just like any other business, in fact, some
>> > train
>> > there own guide dogs, so this statement that the lady made, was
>> > incorrect,
>> > also the training for the dog makes it a guide dog.
>> > > From there, I said that I am just going to speak to the store's
>> > > manager,
>> > > since I had been in this situation prior, but the manager always
>> > > apologized for the incorrect way the person talk to me, and also that
>> > > the employees didn't know better.
>> > That day was different, the manager, told me that it was correct that I
>> > need to show paperwork on my dog that he is a guide dog, now, I am
>> > standing in front of him with dark glasses that blind people wear, and
>> > guide dog in harness.
>> > I stated that there is no such  thing, what makes the dog a guide dog,
>> > or
>> > for anyone else that is disabled, is the disability and the training
>> > that
>> > the dog gets to be a service animal, he proceeded to tell me that 
>> > others
>> > have shown him this paperwork, again, what paperwork. I stated not only
>> > am
>> > I a graduate of the Guide Dog Foundation of Smithtown, that was less
>> > then
>> > 5 minutes away from this location, but that I am a member of that
>> > National
>> > Association of Guide Dog Users, a proud division of the National
>> > Federation of the Blind, and we are one of the organizations that help
>> > make and enforce the ADA laws pertaining to this.  He basically almost
>> > called me a liar, he said that I am not going to continue the
>> > conversation.
>> > He did not tell me I had to leave, but I want to the customer service
>> > desk
>> > with my husband to get the corporate phone number, I tried to call on 
>> > my
>> > cell phone while I was there, but the reception was really bad, and so
>> > we
>> > did shop, and then when we got home I made the calls.
>> > My first was to customer service, the young lady on the phone that her
>> > immediate supervisor said that was the policy of Costco to ask for the
>> > paperwork, she gave me his name, I was writing all of this down, so 
>> > that
>> > I
>> > could give to Marion Gwizdala, President of NAGDU, and Margo Downey,
>> > President of the NY affiliate of NAGDU (NYAGDU).
>> > I was then given the number to call for the legal department, when I 
>> > did
>> > this they said that I couldn't speak to anyone but that I was given the
>> > name of the Regional Vice President of the Area.  I called him, and he
>> > was
>> > not there, so I left him a detailed message.
>> > Within a half and hour, the General Manager, at the store that I went
>> > to,
>> > called me back, and it sounded like he was forced to apologize to me, 
>> > he
>> > didn't realize that I left the store, or the fact that I was actually
>> > blind.
>> > I informed him, that I never left the store, but went to get the phone
>> > numbers that I needed, and did shop.  He began to make excuses for
>> > himself, that he was following training procedures, and that he said,
>> > that
>> > a service animal must have a harness on or a blanket, or something
>> > indicated that they are working dogs. I also corrected him on that
>> > saying, that is not correct, I can come into this store without a cape,
>> > harness, etc on the dog, and the only thing you can ask me is that a
>> > working dog/service, guide dog, and what service does the dog provide.
>> > He was very patronizing still.
>> > I didn't hear from his Vice President until after 5pm when he was in 
>> > his
>> > car driving home from work.
>> > The man kept saying, that is should be obvious that someone is blind 
>> > and
>> > common sense, but I stated, not always, I do not always wear my dark
>> > glasses, not all blind people are totally blind.  There are also some
>> > people who are not blind that use a service animal, children that are
>> > autistic, diabetic, seizure, deaf, etc.  It is not always a
>> > characteristic
>> > of the person, to have something that  identifies them as being
>> > disabled,
>> > and you are not allowed to ask the disability either.
>> > He also said, that he hates enforcing policy, I said it is not costco's
>> > policy it is the ADA law.  I  was trying to give him our National
>> > Hotline
>> > for NAGDU, and if anyone every has questions about Guide Dogs, ADA, 
>> > etc,
>> > our Hotline number is 1-888-NAGDU-411 or 1-888-624-3841, that is how I
>> > found out he was on his car phone on the way home, he told me that he
>> > couldn't take the number because he was driving home from work.  Gee, I
>> > was really important to speak to on this. I mentioned that in NY State
>> > it
>> > is a civil violation of our law, other states have criminal laws in
>> > reference to these violations.
>> > After this, I informed the people who needed to know such as Marion and
>> > Margo.  Mr. Gwizdala, first contact the Costco in his area, and asked
>> > there policy, he was told basically the same thing, as myself, he also
>> > got
>> > the corporate information, and has been in talks with Costco in 
>> > Seattle.
>> > It seems that they are saying that they are a private organization and
>> > that you need to pay a membership to go there and that they are outside
>> > the ADA.
>> > FYI, if that is true, which it is not, then I cannot take my dog to my
>> > gym, it is a private membership, or go to a restaurant you have to pay
>> > to
>> > eat there, or go to a movie or theater.  So that I couldn't go anywhere
>> > with my dog.
>> > I would say if you are a guide dog user, or even if you use a service
>> > animal, and the laws have changed to what kind of animal is considered 
>> > a
>> > service dog.
>> > It cannot be a comfort dog, it cannot be the dog you carry around in
>> > your
>> > pocketbook.  It also must be either a dog, or a guide horse, no cats,
>> > birds, snakes, monkeys, etc any more.  You must have a valid medical
>> > disability that you can get one.  So many disabilities and illnesses 
>> > can
>> > qualify for a service animal now.
>> > Stayed tuned for more
>> > Leading the Way in Independent Travel!
>> >
>> > Cheryl Echevarria
>> > http://www.echevarriatravel.com
>> > 631-456-5394
>> > reservations at echevarriatravel.com
>> >
>> > For daily updates read our blog at
>> > http://www.echevarriatravel.wordpress.com
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
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