[Travelandtourism] Good morning all something not very happy with over at COSTCO on Monday

Wed Feb 22 22:14:29 UTC 2012

Hello all:
Okay, we will inform everyone of new and updated information when it comes through. If anyone else has questions pertaining to NAGDU, please ask the NAGDU Talk list as well.
I had posted this issue because it affects all of us.
Here is the information from the US Department of Justice
Service AnimalsThe Department of Justice published revised final regulations implementing the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) for title II (State and local government services) and title III (public accommodations and commercial facilities) on September 15, 2010, in the Federal Register. These requirements, or rules, clarify and refine issues that have arisen over the past 20 years and contain new, and updated, requirements, including the 2010 Standards for Accessible Design (2010 Standards).OverviewThis publication provides guidance on the term “service animal” and the service animal provisions in the Department’s new regulations.Beginning on March 15, 2011, only dogs are recognized as service animals under titles II and III of the ADA.A service animal is a dog that is individually trained to do work or perform tasks for a person with a disability.Generally, title II and title III entities must permit service animals to accompany people with disabilities in all areas where members of the public are allowed to go.How “Service Animal” Is DefinedService animals are defined as dogs that are individually trained to do work or perform tasks for people with disabilities. Examples of such work or tasks include guiding people who are blind, alerting people who are deaf, pulling a wheelchair, alerting and protecting a person who is having a seizure, reminding a person with mental illness to take prescribed medications, calming a person with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) during an anxiety attack, or performing other duties. Service animals are working animals, not pets. The work or task a dog has been trained to provide must be directly related to the person’s disability. Dogs whose sole function is to provide comfort or emotional support do not qualify as service animals under the ADA.This definition does not affect or limit the broader definition of “assistance animal” under the Fair Housing Act or the broader definition of “service animal” under the Air Carrier Access Act.Some State and local laws also define service animal more broadly than the ADA does. Information about such laws can be obtained from the State attorney general’s office.re Service Animals Are AllowedUnder the ADA, State and local governments, businesses, and nonprofit organizations that serve the public generally must allow service animals to accompany people with disabilities in all areas of the facility where the public is normally allowed to go. For example, in a hospital it would be inappropriate to exclude a service animal from areas such as patient rooms, clinics, cafeterias, or examination rooms. However, it may be appropriate to exclude a service animal from operating rooms or burn units where the animal’s presence may compromise a sterile environment.Service Animals Must Be Under ControlUnder the ADA, service animals must be harnessed, leashed, or tethered, unless these devices interfere with the service animal’s work or the individual’s disability prevents using these devices. In that case, the individual must maintain control of the animal through voice, signal, or other effective controls.Inquiries, Exclusions, Charges, and Other Specific Rules Related to Service AnimalsWhen it is not obvious what service an animal provides, only limited inquiries are allowed. Staff may ask two questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability, and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform. Staff cannot ask about the person’s disability, require medical documentation, require a special identification card or training documentation for the dog, or ask that the dog demonstrate its ability to perform the work or task.Allergies and fear of dogs are not valid reasons for denying access or refusing service to people using service animals. When a person who is allergic to dog dander and a person who uses a service animal must spend time in the same room or facility, for example, in a school classroom or at a homeless shelter, they both should be accommodated by assigning them, if possible, to different locations within the room or different rooms in the facility.A person with a disability cannot be asked to remove his service animal from the premises unless: (1) the dog is out of control and the handler does not take effective action to control it or (2) the dog is not housebroken. When there is a legitimate reason to ask that a service animal be removed, staff must offer the person with the disability the opportunity to obtain goods or services without the animal’s presence.Establishments that sell or prepare food must allow service animals in public areas even if state or local health codes prohibit animals on the premises.People with disabilities who use service animals cannot be isolated from other patrons, treated less favorably than other patrons, or charged fees that are not charged to other patrons without animals. In addition, if a business requires a deposit or fee to be paid by patrons with pets, it must waive the charge for service animals.If a business such as a hotel normally charges guests for damage that they cause, a customer with a disability may also be charged for damage caused by himself or his service animal.Staff are not required to provide care or food for a service animal.

Leading the Way in Independent Travel!

Cheryl Echevarria
http://www.echevarriatravel.com
631-456-5394
reservations at echevarriatravel.com

For daily updates read our blog at
http://www.echevarriatravel.wordpress.com

> From: jazzlion1 at comcast.net
> To: travelandtourism at nfbnet.org
> Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 16:57:46 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Travelandtourism] Good morning all something not very happy	with over at COSTCO on Monday
> 
> Hello:
>   I am not a guide dog user but have friends who do.  If I am not mistaken
> don't the schools provide a photo id of the dog with the proper
> identification that it is a service animal.  I wonder if that was what this
> person was looking for.  Again I am not trying to cause a disturbance but
> with the plethera of persons who want to bring their animals with them
> whereever they go I really don't think it would be unreasonable to ask for
> some type of identifier that the animal is a service animal.
> 
> Barry Campbell
> email:  jazzlion1 at comcast.net
> twitter: MDparrothead
> 
> 
> Always Searchin for that One Particular Harbor, so far but yet so near 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: travelandtourism-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:travelandtourism-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of cheryl echevarria
> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 12:05 PM
> To: travelandtourism
> Subject: Re: [Travelandtourism] Good morning all something not very happy
> with over at COSTCO on Monday
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No Offense Peter on this.
> But that is how we become less independent, we need to be out shopping and
> being involved. Some people even become hermits so to say, and that people
> don't want to leave there homes because of the online shopping, yes I do
> online shopping and basically I am an internet business, I don't have a
> physical office in my home, or I would have to pay a varence I think that is
> how it is spelled, with the town where I live to have a physical business in
> my home, etc with certain insurances to cover business in my home. But that
> being said, I think that was the wrong way to go. Again, I know Peter was
> joking, and I am not yelling or anything at this.
> 
> Leading the Way in Independent Travel!
> 
> Cheryl Echevarria
> http://www.echevarriatravel.com
> 631-456-5394
> reservations at echevarriatravel.com
> 
> For daily updates read our blog at http://www.echevarriatravel.wordpress.com
> 
> > From: pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com
> > To: travelandtourism at nfbnet.org
> > Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 10:30:12 -0600
> > Subject: Re: [Travelandtourism] Good morning all something not very happy
> with over at COSTCO on Monday
> > 
> > Good morning everyone,
> > 
> >     Praise God for online shopping!
> > 
> > Peter Donahue
> > 
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Julie J." <julielj at neb.rr.com>
> > To: "NFB Travel and Tourism Division List" <travelandtourism at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 7:46 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Travelandtourism] Good morning all something not very happy 
> > with over at COSTCO on Monday
> > 
> > 
> > Cosco is a bit of a sticky situation.  I want to say it was in the 
> > early to mid 90's there was a court case with a service dog handler 
> > vs. Cosco.  It centered around these same issues of 
> > certification/paperwork/proof.  the case was handled quite badly and 
> > the judge ruled that Cosco could ask for documentation. I can't 
> > remember all the details of the case, but it set a very bad precedent.  
> > To me it looks obvious that the verdict is in direct opposition to the 
> > ADA, but the judge didn't agree.  I'm remembering that the case was 
> > appealed with the same results.  The case did not make it to the 
> > Supreme Court.
> > 
> > I would take a guess this is why Cosco has the service dog policy they 
> > do and why they get away with it.  Not saying it's right.  Certainly 
> > if someone has a solid case and wants to take it back to court that 
> > could be a very good thing because it could overturn the previous 
> > ruling.
> > 
> > Good luck with it,
> > Julie
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On 2/22/2012 6:54 AM, cheryl echevarria wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I am posting this to not only the NYAGDU (NY State Division of the
> > > National Association of Guide Dog Users), but also to the Travel and 
> > > Tourism Division), both proud divisions of the National Federation of
> the 
> > > Blind.
> > > Traveling is also traveling with accessible entrance to all locations, 
> > > with cane, sighted guide, as well as, guide dog, or other forms of 
> > > mobility that one is comfortable with.
> > > This past Monday, Presidents Day, Nelson, Maxx (my guide  dog) and
> myself, 
> > > did our bi-monthly shopping of Costco, if some of you do not know what 
> > > COSTCO is, it is one of the those membership stores where you buy in
> bulk, 
> > > we don't buy a lot because it is the 2 of us, and I also buy dog food 
> > > there.
> > > We have been members of Costco for over 12 years.
> > > When we entered the store after showing our membership card, the lady at
> 
> > > the door, asked to see my dogs certification paperwork.
> > > Now for those who are not blind and do not know the ADA laws, first
> there 
> > > is no  paperwork for a guide dog, and certified, just no such thing.
> The 
> > > schools must be licensed just like any other business, in fact, some
> train 
> > > there own guide dogs, so this statement that the lady made, was
> incorrect, 
> > > also the training for the dog makes it a guide dog.
> > > > From there, I said that I am just going to speak to the store's 
> > > > manager,
> > > > since I had been in this situation prior, but the manager always 
> > > > apologized for the incorrect way the person talk to me, and also that 
> > > > the employees didn't know better.
> > > That day was different, the manager, told me that it was correct 
> > > that I
> > > need to show paperwork on my dog that he is a guide dog, now, I am 
> > > standing in front of him with dark glasses that blind people wear, and 
> > > guide dog in harness.
> > > I stated that there is no such  thing, what makes the dog a guide dog,
> or 
> > > for anyone else that is disabled, is the disability and the training
> that 
> > > the dog gets to be a service animal, he proceeded to tell me that others
> 
> > > have shown him this paperwork, again, what paperwork. I stated not only
> am 
> > > I a graduate of the Guide Dog Foundation of Smithtown, that was less
> then 
> > > 5 minutes away from this location, but that I am a member of that
> National 
> > > Association of Guide Dog Users, a proud division of the National 
> > > Federation of the Blind, and we are one of the organizations that help 
> > > make and enforce the ADA laws pertaining to this.  He basically almost 
> > > called me a liar, he said that I am not going to continue the 
> > > conversation.
> > > He did not tell me I had to leave, but I want to the customer service
> desk 
> > > with my husband to get the corporate phone number, I tried to call on my
> 
> > > cell phone while I was there, but the reception was really bad, and so
> we 
> > > did shop, and then when we got home I made the calls.
> > > My first was to customer service, the young lady on the phone that her 
> > > immediate supervisor said that was the policy of Costco to ask for the 
> > > paperwork, she gave me his name, I was writing all of this down, so that
> I 
> > > could give to Marion Gwizdala, President of NAGDU, and Margo Downey, 
> > > President of the NY affiliate of NAGDU (NYAGDU).
> > > I was then given the number to call for the legal department, when I did
> 
> > > this they said that I couldn't speak to anyone but that I was given the 
> > > name of the Regional Vice President of the Area.  I called him, and he
> was 
> > > not there, so I left him a detailed message.
> > > Within a half and hour, the General Manager, at the store that I went
> to, 
> > > called me back, and it sounded like he was forced to apologize to me, he
> 
> > > didn't realize that I left the store, or the fact that I was actually 
> > > blind.
> > > I informed him, that I never left the store, but went to get the phone 
> > > numbers that I needed, and did shop.  He began to make excuses for 
> > > himself, that he was following training procedures, and that he said,
> that 
> > > a service animal must have a harness on or a blanket, or something 
> > > indicated that they are working dogs. I also corrected him on that 
> > > saying, that is not correct, I can come into this store without a cape, 
> > > harness, etc on the dog, and the only thing you can ask me is that a 
> > > working dog/service, guide dog, and what service does the dog provide.
> > > He was very patronizing still.
> > > I didn't hear from his Vice President until after 5pm when he was in his
> 
> > > car driving home from work.
> > > The man kept saying, that is should be obvious that someone is blind and
> 
> > > common sense, but I stated, not always, I do not always wear my dark 
> > > glasses, not all blind people are totally blind.  There are also some 
> > > people who are not blind that use a service animal, children that are 
> > > autistic, diabetic, seizure, deaf, etc.  It is not always a
> characteristic 
> > > of the person, to have something that  identifies them as being
> disabled, 
> > > and you are not allowed to ask the disability either.
> > > He also said, that he hates enforcing policy, I said it is not costco's 
> > > policy it is the ADA law.  I  was trying to give him our National
> Hotline 
> > > for NAGDU, and if anyone every has questions about Guide Dogs, ADA, etc,
> 
> > > our Hotline number is 1-888-NAGDU-411 or 1-888-624-3841, that is how I 
> > > found out he was on his car phone on the way home, he told me that he 
> > > couldn't take the number because he was driving home from work.  Gee, I 
> > > was really important to speak to on this. I mentioned that in NY State
> it 
> > > is a civil violation of our law, other states have criminal laws in 
> > > reference to these violations.
> > > After this, I informed the people who needed to know such as Marion and 
> > > Margo.  Mr. Gwizdala, first contact the Costco in his area, and asked 
> > > there policy, he was told basically the same thing, as myself, he also
> got 
> > > the corporate information, and has been in talks with Costco in Seattle.
> 
> > > It seems that they are saying that they are a private organization and 
> > > that you need to pay a membership to go there and that they are outside 
> > > the ADA.
> > > FYI, if that is true, which it is not, then I cannot take my dog to my 
> > > gym, it is a private membership, or go to a restaurant you have to pay
> to 
> > > eat there, or go to a movie or theater.  So that I couldn't go anywhere 
> > > with my dog.
> > > I would say if you are a guide dog user, or even if you use a service 
> > > animal, and the laws have changed to what kind of animal is considered a
> 
> > > service dog.
> > > It cannot be a comfort dog, it cannot be the dog you carry around in
> your 
> > > pocketbook.  It also must be either a dog, or a guide horse, no cats, 
> > > birds, snakes, monkeys, etc any more.  You must have a valid medical 
> > > disability that you can get one.  So many disabilities and illnesses can
> 
> > > qualify for a service animal now.
> > > Stayed tuned for more
> > > Leading the Way in Independent Travel!
> > >
> > > Cheryl Echevarria
> > > http://www.echevarriatravel.com
> > > 631-456-5394
> > > reservations at echevarriatravel.com
> > >
> > > For daily updates read our blog at 
> > > http://www.echevarriatravel.wordpress.com
> > >
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> > >
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> > 
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