[Travelandtourism] This was ADA Suit Against Disney May Expand to more information about what can be posted on the list and what the division is about
Trevor Attenberg
tattenberg at gmail.com
Mon Sep 1 19:15:36 UTC 2014
Thanks.
I'd like to add though that I'm not sure why you are mentioning many of these things as a response to me: the names and occupations of the board members, etc. All that is interesting, but didn't have much to do with what was being spoken of.
I myself posted a message not long ago that concerned the travel industry, but didn't have to do with blindness necessarily. I opened the message with the caveat that it wasn't a blindness issue; but also that the list should be assured I wouldn't be sending out more such messages; and yet the message seemed to get shot down.
Like so many laws, the ADA, while encompassing the concerns of the blind, does not always concern the blind at all with regards to its individual sections and applications. I've attended long discussions on the ADA without encountering anything that remotely concerned my mobility or access to employment, etc. I think it would be good to wrap up the discussion of the ADA at this point.
One thing that may be confusing or concerning to many that come to the list is its nearly exclusive focus on travel and tourism from an employment perspective. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing at all uncalled for with this focus; but I feel like many of us may appreciate a wider discussion of what it is to travel as a blind individual. Personally, I have no interest in getting into the hospitality or travel agency business. There are also forms of travel that I do not enjoy. I have no problem with such topics being talked about--not at all--but I can imagine some listers have been turned off by the dominant presents of one or a few individuals discussing a few topics that seem of little personal relevance. Being on list serves can be a real drag in that way.
I myself have tried to spice up things by sharing several items I find interesting; though I admit I haven't gotten much in the way of feedback. Being on the list is not really a problem to me as I can quickly delete emails with unappealing subject lines. Never the less I feel that given my busy schedule and other factors, the list is probably the best way to reach out to the group given the lack of time constraints. Not everyone can make phone calls and be on boards.
Best,
Trevor
-----Original Message-----
From: Travelandtourism [mailto:travelandtourism-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cheryl Echevarria via Travelandtourism
Sent: Monday, September 01, 2014 6:05 AM
To: 'NFB Travel and Tourism Division List'
Cc: john Tebockhorst; Steven Hastalis; Jemal Powell
Subject: Re: [Travelandtourism] This was ADA Suit Against Disney May Expand to more information about what can be posted on the list and what the division is about
Well thank you Trevor, but this is blind related.
ADA affects all of us, if you have issues pertaining to ADA related issues that has to do with travel or working in the travel industry, or even local legislative meetings about transportation in your area, this is what we discuss.
We have had many people leave the group list, because they think it is either for travel professionals, people who are traveling all the time. Many people say I don’t go anywhere, why am on this list, or I am not a travel professional.
Some answers to those questions:
1. We have many people who are looking for work and you do not have to be a travel agent to work in the industry. If you were at our convention, or as I have mentioned many times. My husband, Nelson Echevarria, who is sighted recorded our meeting at the National Convention which is on our www.nfbtravel.org <http://www.nfbtravel.org> website, and we have people speaking about learning customers service to work in many areas of the hospitality field. It is a multi-trillion dollar industry. So you do not have to see travel or be a business owner to be part of the division or list.
2. We travel every single day, whether it is on the access-a-ride system where you live, the local bus system, maybe you don’t have any public transportation in your state or know how to reach out to your state about it. Driving with others, flying, learning about getting through security at the airports faster and easier. We have 3 officers who sit on transportation boards.
a. Secretary – Margo Downey – She was appointed in Buffalo, to be one of the Niagara Frontier Transportation Authority Commissioners
b. Board Members – Jamel Powell and Steve Hastalis from Illinois sit on the local transportation committees
Please remember you also do not have to sit on these boards either, we want to help with the local transporation and have discussions on this as well.
The last posting was to give others on the list the idea to talk about theme parks and what is going on with Disney. I also asked Mr. Mark Jones to way in, because he has worked with us for at least 2 years, not the NFB per say, but on conference calls and attended the convention back in 2013.
If you have ever gone to Disney in the past and didn’t enjoy your trip their stating that is was not accessible, whether you were with others or have a guide dog and couldn’t go on certain rides, etc, etc. It does affect all of us good and the bad.
Know I now that with the proper training that a blind person doesn’t have to use the handicapped accessible ramps, or go to the front of the line. NFB wants equality for the blind. But at the same time, for people like myself who cannot get on to a ride prior to the rides with conveyor belts to get you to the car on the ride, so I ask a ride person to stop the ride, so I can get on, they do that, you just need to ask for it. I have more than just blind related medical issues, but they are not visible to the sighted community.
So yes, Trevor, this is not technically about blindness related issues, those that don’t have the philosophy or have the proper training they should have the option of using all the services offered to them. The older community that never got the training, may want to know their options.
If you would like to make the division better, we need active people being at our meeting and being involved.
Our 1st Division meeting of the year will be the 1st week in October. All are welcome to that, we will also be having other discussion on the NFB Live Room on www.nfblive.org <http://www.nfblive.org> , so make sure you are signed up, and are getting the events e-mail.
Thank you for your comments, and all responses are welcome, and not just mine or those officers here.
Cheryl Echevarria, President
National Federation of the Blind's Travel and Tourism Division
A proud division of the
NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND - "Live the life you want"
www.nfbtravel.org
631-236-5138
cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com
The National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not the characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise the expectations of blind people, because low expectations create obstacles between blind people and our dreams. You can have the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back.
Cheryl Echevarria is also the owner of Echevarria Travel www.echevarriatravel.com; 631-456-5394 or reservations at echevarriatravel.com and has partnered with Braille Smith. www.braillesmith.com for all her braille needs. Gail Smith is the Secretary of the NFB of Alabama
From: Trevor Attenberg [mailto:tattenberg at gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2014 8:44 PM
To: 'Cherylandmaxx'
Subject: RE: [Travelandtourism] ADA Suit Against Disney May Expand
And I do know this—I thought I indicated as such; but I am trying to improve the list—make it a bit more focused and interesting you know?
Other disabilities are surely welcome in a group that is nominally for the blind of course; but it should probably be remembered that when one is representing a certain disabilities issue, it by no means represents all disabilities. As I’m sure most blind folk have experienced, we are regularly lumped in with all kinds of physical and mental limitations that blindness tends to have little in common with. Contrary to popular belief; blind people (especially those that are just blind) quite commonly have within the range of their capacity the ability to walk, hike, listen, and communicate without major structural adjustments. Some people have none of these abilities, and perhaps it would be best for such people to seek a group that is more directed at such a wider scale of alternative conditions. If it seems like these things I say are obvious, unfortunately one of our struggles as blind people is the lack of such awareness in the general public.
With all that said; the other aim of my last message was to gear the list onto a pertinent discussion of how we deal with amusement park environments, yes?
From: Cherylandmaxx [mailto:Cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2014 4:22 PM
To: Trevor Attenberg; 'NFB Travel and Tourism Division List'
Subject: RE: [Travelandtourism] ADA Suit Against Disney May Expand
Um Trevor I know this. I was posting as a general information. Also we do have others on this list are not just blind. Also we moderate what can be posted or discussed. Thank you any way for your thoughts.
Cheryl Echevarria
Echevarria Travel
www.echevarriatravel.com <http://www.echevarriatravel.com>
Echevarriatravelblog.com
631-456-5394
Reservations at echevarriatravel.com <mailto:Reservations at echevarriatravel.com>
Cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com <mailto:Cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
-------- Original message --------
From: Trevor Attenberg via Travelandtourism
Date:08/31/2014 3:58 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: 'NFB Travel and Tourism Division List'
Subject: Re: [Travelandtourism] ADA Suit Against Disney May Expand
With regards to the ADA thing, it doesn't seem to me like we're discussing much of a blindness issue. As a blind guy, I have no problem waiting in lines for whatever, so long as I know where the line is moving--there are various adaptive strategies for dealing with lines non-visually. On the other hand, those of us with disabilities that directly impact our mobility, including paraplegia, may have a completely different perspective. I can't properly speak to that. We are pretty strictly a blindness group; and thus our inclusion in this ADA Disney issue may be confusing or misleading to outsiders and others who wonder how blind people function. Although, it should be said we haven't actually given this topic much discussion, so don't take this as a jab against any people on the list. What would probably be pretty interesting would be to discuss just how blind people function in environments like amusement parks, where there are big crowds, often long lines, and a pretty complex and extensive landscape.
How do you handle this?
Best,
Trevor
-----Original Message-----
From: Travelandtourism [mailto:travelandtourism-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews via Travelandtourism
Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2014 12:37 PM
To: Cheryl Echevarria; NFB Travel and Tourism Division List
Subject: Re: [Travelandtourism] ADA Suit Against Disney May Expand
I unsubscribed her.
Dave
At 06:49 AM 8/31/2014, you wrote:
>You have to go to NFBnet.org to unsubscribe from your account. You
>belong to other nfbnet.org talk lists just go there and take yourself
>off.
>I am sorry you no longer want to belong to the great list and possible
>belong to the division.
>Cheryl Echevarria, President National Federation of the Blind's Travel
>and Tourism Division A proud division of the NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE
>BLIND - "Live the life you want"
>www.nfbtravel.org <http://www.nfbtravel.org> 631-236-5138
>cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com <mailto:cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com> The
>National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not the
>characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise the
>expectations of blind people, because low expectations create obstacles between blind people and our dreams.
>You can have the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back.
>Cheryl Echevarria is also the owner of Echevarria Travel
>www.echevarriatravel.com <http://www.echevarriatravel.com> ;
>631-456-5394 or reservations at echevarriatravel.com
><mailto:reservations at echevarriatravel.com> and has partnered with Braille Smith.
>www.braillesmith.com <http://www.braillesmith.com> for all her braille
>needs. Gail Smith is the Secretary of the NFB of Alabama From:
>kcsmith8911 [mailto:kcsmith8911 at msn.com] Sent: Saturday, August 30,
>2014 9:40 PM
>To: Cheryl Echevarria; 'NFB Travel and Tourism Division List'; Amy
>Baron; Glenda Farnum; Margo downey; Jemal Powell; Steven Hastalis; john
>Tebockhorst
>Subject: RE: [Travelandtourism] ADA Suit Against Disney May Expand I do
>not want to receive any more emails from you guys. I have tried to opt
>out from the NFb. Web site 2 times but I still get emails. Please
>immediately remove me from your email list. Kathi Smith Sent on the new
>Sprint Network from my Samsung Galaxy S®4.
>-------- Original message -------- From: Cheryl Echevarria via
>Travelandtourism Date:08/30/2014
>2:35 PM (GMT-08:00) To: 'NFB Travel and Tourism Division List' ,Amy
>Baron ,Glenda Farnum ,Margo downey ,Jemal Powell ,Steven Hastalis ,john
>Tebockhorst Cc: Mark Jones Subject:
>[Travelandtourism] ADA Suit Against Disney May Expand This was posted
>yesterday on www.disabilityscoop.com <http://www.disabilityscoop.com>
><http://www.disabilityscoop.com> <http://www.disabilityscoop.com> and
>online e-newsmagazine. Now for those of us, who went to Epcot this past
>summer, the Travel and Tourism Officers did go, we had some issues not
>with the rides, but other things, we are working with Mark Jones about.
>I have to say that when we were in Orlando, we didn't have an issues
>with the rides, but you never know. Here is the story, and Mark if you
>can chime in after the holiday or whenever you can. I am still waiting
>for you to get back to me to give you information with our credit card.
>Anyway, here is the article. The number of families looking to sue
>Disney over changes to its theme park access policy for people with
>disabilities is growing substantially. An additional 30 families
>including 36 individuals with disabilities are seeking to join a
>lawsuit originally filed this spring that accuses Walt Disney Parks and
>Resorts of violating the Americans with Disabilities Act by failing to accommodate their special needs.
>Initially, 14 families including
>16 people with disabilities were part of the lawsuit. The allegations
>stem from modifications last fall to Disney's procedures for
>accommodating visitors with disabilities. Prior to the change, those
>with special needs were provided passes that often allowed them and
>their guests to skip to the front of long lines for park attractions.
>Now, however, individuals with disabilities can schedule a return time
>for rides based on current wait times. Disney officials said the
>changes were necessary following "widespread" abuse of the old system.
>Since the new policy took effect, the families say in their lawsuit
>that visits to Disney theme parks have been marked by long waits and
>difficult interactions with Disney employees.
>What's more, the suit cites cases of kids with developmental
>disabilities who have experienced meltdowns allegedly because they
>could not handle waiting for rides. After the initial complaint was
>filed earlier this year, attorneys for the families "received an
>outpouring of phone calls and emails" from others who were similarly
>affected by changes to the disability access policy at Disneyland and
>Disney World, according to documents filed with the U.S.
>District Court for the Central District of California this week. "Most
>of the victims wanted to offer cheers of support and witness
>assistance; some were in search of counsel.
>Ultimately, the undersigned counsel agreed to represent many of them,"
>the attorneys, Andy Dogali and Eugene Feldman, wrote. Disney vehemently
>denied the allegations in a court filing last month saying that "all
>guests with disabilities are provided the level of accommodation
>required by law." At that time, the company requested that the lawsuit
>be dismissed. Attorneys for Disney have indicated they will fight
>efforts to add more families to the case when the issue goes before the
>court in October. The case is not expected to go to trial until 2016.
>Cheryl Echevarria, President National Federation of the Blind's Travel
>and Tourism Division A proud division of the NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE
>BLIND - "Live the life you want" www.nfbtravel.org
><http://www.nfbtravel.org> <http://www.nfbtravel.org> 631-236-5138
>cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com <mailto:cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
><mailto:cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com> The National Federation of the Blind
>knows that blindness is not the characteristic that defines you or your
>future. Every day we raise the expectations of blind people, because
>low expectations create obstacles between blind people and our dreams.
>You can have the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back.
>Cheryl Echevarria is also the owner of Echevarria Travel
>www.echevarriatravel.com <http://www.echevarriatravel.com>
><http://www.echevarriatravel.com> ;
>631-456-5394 or reservations at echevarriatravel.com
><mailto:reservations at echevarriatravel.com>
><mailto:reservations at echevarriatravel.com>
>and has partnered with Braille Smith.
>www.braillesmith.com <http://www.braillesmith.com>
><http://www.braillesmith.com> for all her braille needs. Gail Smith
>is the Secretary of the NFB of Alabama
>_______________________________________________
>Travelandtourism mailing list
>Travelandtourism at nfbnet.org <mailto:Travelandtourism at nfbnet.org>
><mailto:Travelandtourism at nfbnet.org>
David Andrews and long white cane Harry.
E-Mail: dandrews at visi.com <mailto:dandrews at visi.com> or david.andrews at nfbnet.org <mailto:david.andrews at nfbnet.org>
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