[Vendorsmi] do the BEP promulgated rules really matter?

Tue Feb 14 13:29:45 UTC 2012

You are both correct. Let us not forget that it was the agency, after this ad hoc meeting that went to the EOC and then the Commission to rubber stamp eliminating the rules on "The State Plate". And let us not forget that Zanger herself before the Board said they've done this before. Ad Hoc indeed!

The agency in particular "bootstraps" or acts ad hoc, and so do some pet operators.

Regardless you are both correct in that what purpose are rules if they are not followed, or applied uniformly?

Now I do think there is a training component that is a problem when it comes to newer operators. That is pretty clear.

But, Joe S rightfully points out issues with long standing operators. I hear him in that he and others who operate on the up and up are put at a competitive disadvantage by doing so when rules are not evenly applied across the board. That is simply a reality not unlike having any outside competition.

Still this all ultimately goes to the agency.

I understand the chicken and egg dilemma posited by Joe, however.

Let us not forget there is a third element always skulking in the background. That is other state agencies and actors like these tyrannical building managers who think they can flout the law, and who do because the agency sells us all out to them.

Allowing a building manager to be formally on the interview process for the State Plate with all kinds of nebulous and dictatorial abilities is more than allowing the Camel's nose under the tent. It is telling us all who runs the program in the mind of the agency and for whom. It is letting the big bad Wolf in tright in the home invited and then jumping into the oven so we might make a tasty dinner for him.

Oh, yes and he apparently will dictate the price of that dinner too.

Joe H

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Joe Sontag 
  To: David Robinson 
  Cc: VENDORSMI List 
  Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 6:02 AM
  Subject: Re: [Vendorsmi] do the BEP promulgated rules really matter?

  I reject the claim that the training is the problem where operator compliance is concerned.  Most of the serious violations are happening at the hands of experienced operators in the employer responsibility area, they are willful and they happen mostly because there are no consequences unless the operator in question has done things to anger BEP administration, such as help protect another operator's rights.  I have been penalized for operating a business properly and for showing the financials as they were, not as I always wished they could be, and I have seen operators receive promotion points for "training" based on nothing more than their word and I am sick and tired of sitting on my ass and telling myself that it will all just work out somehow.  The PAs have a job that is defined by both the Civil Service and by our promulgated rules, yet Cannon, Zanger, Hull and god knows who else work harder at getting their responsibilities reduced than they do at strengthening and growing our program.  Remember, the topic includes both operators and the agency and, in my opinion, there's more than enough blame to go around.  As free as certain highly regarded operators are free to break the law and rip off the program, the BEP administration is even more free to ignore or break the rules and sell the program down the river, at no risk to themselves.

  This is not a sheltered rehab shop, this is not a blindy pity party, this is an employment program, one that gives blind adults the opportunity to provide real service in exchange for real financial compensation, consistent with applicable laws, all of which they agree to as a condition of participation in the program.  If the BEP dies, it will be hard to distinguish between the effects of operator exploitation and BEP staff indifference and incompetence when trying to determine the cause of death.

    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: David Robinson 
    To: 'Joe Sontag' ; 'NFB of Michigan Vendors List' 
    Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 10:50
    Subject: RE: [Vendorsmi] do the BEP promulgated rules really matter?

    Dear Joe, 

       This is an excellent example of the problem throughout the program.  Larry does a good job of pointing out that part of the agency's role is to help the operator to stay in full compliance.  This is not a one sided issue however.  The agency has an obligation to adhere to the rules as well.  To carry out their responsibility as the SLA and to move a blind person from rehabilitation to employment.  In today's BEP, I suspect that the problem does not mean an unwillingness to follow the rules, but the training or lack of training, that operators have been given. I also contend that some of the rules are outdated and lacking any understanding of how the business world works.  If the training was good then many of the rules would not be necessary.  Finally, why is the discussion of rules only about the operator?  The agency is willing to break them when they need to do so.

    Dave Robinson

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    From: vendorsmi-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:vendorsmi-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe Sontag
    Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 9:18 AM
    To: VENDORSMI List
    Cc: Steve Arwood
    Subject: [Vendorsmi] do the BEP promulgated rules really matter?

    I now offer you a clue as to why the Business Enterprise Program is so fouled up.  Listen carefully to the following discussion on the topic "Operators/Agency Staff consistently following rules as they are
    written," which is one of the issues before the ad hoc.  Mr. Hull's remarks are extremely revealing, as is the vote that was taken near the end of the session.

    This may be downloaded at the link below:

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22266576/Ad%20hoc%20%2002032012%20excerpt1.MP3

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