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<P class=Heading style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Courier New">STATE OF
<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
/><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:State
w:st="on">MICHIGAN</st1:State></st1:place></FONT></P>
<P class=Heading style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Courier New">STATE
OFFICE OF ADMINISTRATIVE HEARINGS AND RULES</FONT></P>
<P class=Heading style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Courier New">DEPARTMENT
OF labor, energy & economic growth</FONT></P>
<P class=BODYCAPS
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal"><?xml:namespace prefix = o ns =
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p><FONT
face="Courier New"> </FONT></o:p></P>
<P class=BODYCAPS style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal"><FONT
face="Courier New">RISA PATRICK-LANGTRY,</FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN: 12pt 0in 0pt; tab-stops: 1.5in right 6.75in"><FONT
face="Courier New"><SPAN
style="mso-tab-count: 1">
</SPAN>PETITIONER<SPAN
style="mso-tab-count: 1">
</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN: 12pt 0in 0pt; tab-stops: 3.75in right 6.75in"><FONT
face="Courier New">V<SPAN
style="mso-tab-count: 1">
</SPAN>Case No.:</FONT><A name=docketno><FONT
face="Courier New">20</FONT></A><FONT face="Courier New">09-1705</FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: 3.5in"><o:p><FONT
face="Courier New"> </FONT></o:p></P>
<P class=BODYCAPS style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal"><FONT
face="Courier New"><st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">MICHIGAN</st1:place></st1:State> COMMISSION FOR THE BLIND,</FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 12pt 0in 0pt; tab-stops: 1.5in 3.5in"><FONT
face="Courier New"><SPAN
style="mso-tab-count: 1">
</SPAN>RESPONDENT</FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 12pt 0in 0pt; tab-stops: 3.5in"><FONT
face="Courier New"><U><SPAN
style="mso-tab-count: 1">
</SPAN></U>/</FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT
face="Courier New"> </FONT></o:p></P>
<P class=Heading style="MARGIN: 12pt 0in 0pt"><FONT
face="Courier New">AUDIOTAPED HEARING</FONT></P>
<P class=Heading style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Courier New"><SPAN
style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none">BEFORE </SPAN>Administrative Law Judge<SPAN
style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none"> ROBERT J. MEADE<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=DblBody style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center"
align=center><FONT face="Courier New"><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City
w:st="on">LANSING</st1:City>, <st1:State
w:st="on">Michigan</st1:State></st1:place> - monday, November 29,
2010</FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT
face="Courier New">APPEARANCES:</FONT></P>
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face="Courier New"> </FONT></o:p></P></TD>
<TD
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face="Courier New"> </FONT></o:p></P></TD></TR>
<TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 1">
<TD
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #c0c0c0; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #c0c0c0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: #c0c0c0; WIDTH: 159.25pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: #c0c0c0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT
face="Courier New">For the PETITIONER</FONT></P></TD>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><A name=start></A><FONT
face="Courier New">TERRY EAGLE</FONT></P></TD></TR>
<TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 2">
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vAlign=top width=212>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT
face="Courier New"> </FONT></o:p></P></TD>
<TD
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<TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 3">
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<TD
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face="Courier New"> </FONT></o:p></P></TD>
<TD
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face="Courier New"> </FONT></o:p></P></TD></TR>
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vAlign=top width=212>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT
face="Courier New"> </FONT></o:p></P></TD>
<TD
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face="Courier New"> </FONT></o:p></P></TD></TR>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT
face="Courier New">For the RESPONDENT</FONT></P></TD>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT
face="Courier New"><st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">MICHIGAN</st1:place></st1:State> COMMISSION FOR THE
BLIND</FONT></P></TD></TR>
<TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 7">
<TD
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT
face="Courier New"> </FONT></o:p></P></TD>
<TD
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #c0c0c0; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #c0c0c0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: #c0c0c0; WIDTH: 266.75pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: #c0c0c0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT
face="Courier New">james hull</FONT></P></TD></TR>
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vAlign=top width=212>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT
face="Courier New"> </FONT></o:p></P></TD>
<TD
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #c0c0c0; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #c0c0c0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: #c0c0c0; WIDTH: 266.75pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: #c0c0c0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT
face="Courier New"><st1:Street w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on">201 n.
washington square</st1:address></st1:Street>, 2nd floor</FONT></P></TD></TR>
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style="BORDER-RIGHT: #c0c0c0; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #c0c0c0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: #c0c0c0; WIDTH: 159.25pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: #c0c0c0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"
vAlign=top width=212>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT
face="Courier New"> </FONT></o:p></P></TD>
<TD
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #c0c0c0; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #c0c0c0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: #c0c0c0; WIDTH: 266.75pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: #c0c0c0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><st1:place w:st="on"><FONT
face="Courier New"><st1:City w:st="on">lansing</st1:City>, <st1:State
w:st="on">mi</st1:State><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN><st1:PostalCode
w:st="on">48909</st1:PostalCode></FONT></st1:place></P></TD></TR>
<TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 10">
<TD
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #c0c0c0; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #c0c0c0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: #c0c0c0; WIDTH: 159.25pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: #c0c0c0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT
face="Courier New"> </FONT></o:p></P></TD>
<TD
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT
face="Courier New">(517) 373-2063</FONT></P></TD></TR>
<TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 11">
<TD
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #c0c0c0; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #c0c0c0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: #c0c0c0; WIDTH: 159.25pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: #c0c0c0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT
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<TD
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT
face="Courier New"> </FONT></o:p></P></TD></TR>
<TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 12; mso-yfti-lastrow: yes">
<TD
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vAlign=top width=212>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT
face="Courier New"> </FONT></o:p></P></TD>
<TD
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #c0c0c0; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #c0c0c0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: #c0c0c0; WIDTH: 266.75pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: #c0c0c0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT
face="Courier New"> </FONT></o:p></P></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="DISPLAY: none; mso-hide: all"><o:p><FONT
face="Courier New"> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<TABLE class=MsoTableGrid
style="MARGIN: auto auto auto 5.4pt; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse; mso-yfti-tbllook: 480; mso-padding-alt: 0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt"
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<TBODY>
<TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 0; mso-yfti-firstrow: yes; mso-yfti-lastrow: yes">
<TD
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #c0c0c0; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #c0c0c0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: #c0c0c0; WIDTH: 157.9pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: #c0c0c0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT
face="Courier New">TRANSCRIBED BY:</FONT></P></TD>
<TD
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #c0c0c0; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #c0c0c0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: #c0c0c0; WIDTH: 268.1pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: #c0c0c0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT
face="Courier New">REGENCY COURT REPORTING</FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><st1:address
w:st="on"><FONT face="Courier New"><st1:Street w:st="on">3133 Union Lake
Road</st1:Street><BR><st1:City w:st="on">Commerce Township</st1:City>,
<st1:State w:st="on">MI</st1:State> <st1:PostalCode
w:st="on">48382</st1:PostalCode></FONT></st1:address></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT
face="Courier New">(248) 360-2145</FONT></P></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT
face="Courier New"> </FONT></o:p></P></DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; TEXT-TRANSFORM: uppercase; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><BR
style="PAGE-BREAK-BEFORE: always; mso-break-type: section-break"
clear=all></SPAN>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 200%; TEXT-ALIGN: center"
align=center><FONT face="Courier New">TABLE OF CONTENTS</FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 200%; tab-stops: right 426.0pt"><FONT
face="Courier New"><SPAN
style="mso-tab-count: 1">
</SPAN><st1:stockticker w:st="on">PAGE</st1:stockticker></FONT></P>
<P class=TOC
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: .5in 1.25in right 420.0pt"><U><FONT
face="Courier New">WITNESS: PETITIONER<o:p></o:p></FONT></U></P>
<P class=TOC
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: .5in 1.25in right 420.0pt"><FONT
face="Courier New">FRED WURTZEL</FONT></P>
<P class=TOC
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: .5in 1.25in right 420.0pt"><FONT
face="Courier New"><SPAN style="mso-tab-count: 1">
</SPAN>Direct Examination by Mr. Eagle<SPAN
style="mso-tab-count: 1">
</SPAN>07</FONT></P>
<P class=TOC
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: .5in 1.25in right 420.0pt"><FONT
face="Courier New"><SPAN style="mso-tab-count: 1">
</SPAN>Cross-Examination by Mr. Hull<SPAN
style="mso-tab-count: 1">
</SPAN>17</FONT></P>
<P class=TOC
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: .5in 1.25in right 420.0pt"><FONT
face="Courier New">RISA PATRICK-LANGTRY</FONT></P>
<P class=TOC
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: .5in 1.25in right 420.0pt"><FONT
face="Courier New"><SPAN style="mso-tab-count: 1">
</SPAN>Direct Examination by Mr. Eagle<SPAN
style="mso-tab-count: 1">
</SPAN>18</FONT></P>
<P class=TOC
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: .5in 1.25in right 420.0pt"><FONT
face="Courier New"><SPAN style="mso-tab-count: 1">
</SPAN>Cross-Examination by Mr. Hull<SPAN
style="mso-tab-count: 1">
</SPAN>31</FONT></P>
<P class=TOC
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: .5in 1.25in right 420.0pt"><FONT
face="Courier New"><SPAN style="mso-tab-count: 1">
</SPAN>Redirect Examination by Mr. Eagle<SPAN
style="mso-tab-count: 1">
</SPAN>34</FONT></P>
<P class=TOC
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: .5in 1.25in right 420.0pt"><o:p><FONT
face="Courier New"> </FONT></o:p></P>
<P class=TOC
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: .5in 1.25in right 420.0pt"><U><FONT
face="Courier New">WITNESSES: RESPONDENT<o:p></o:p></FONT></U></P>
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<TD
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<TD
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<P class=TOC
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face="Courier New"> </FONT></o:p></P><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 200%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><BR
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<P class=TOC style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><st1:place w:st="on"><FONT
face="Courier New"><st1:City w:st="on">Lansing</st1:City>, <st1:State
w:st="on">Michigan</st1:State></FONT></st1:place></P>
<P class=TOC style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Courier New"><SPAN
style="mso-tab-count: 1"> </SPAN>Monday, November 29,
2010 - <SPAN
style="mso-field-code: ' fillin 'Insert actual start time of Deposition, i.e. ɱ:50 p.m.'''">9:00
a.m.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=TOC style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Courier New">* * * * *</FONT></P>
<P class=Heading style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><U><FONT face="Courier New">P R O C
E E D I N G S <o:p></o:p></FONT></U></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>And we’ll go on the record
in the matter of Risa Patrick-Langtry, Petitioner, versus Michigan Commission
for the Blind, Respondent.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>It’s
Docket Number 2009-1705.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>It’s
November 29th, 2010, at 9:00 a.m.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN>This hearing is being held at the State Office of Administrative Hearings
and Rules.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>We’re on the Second
Floor of the <st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Ottawa</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType
w:st="on">Building</st1:PlaceType> in <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City
w:st="on">Lansing</st1:City>, <st1:State
w:st="on">Michigan</st1:State></st1:place>.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>And I’m Robert Meade, the administrative
law judge assigned to hear this matter.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN>And Mr. Eagle is here on behalf of the Petitioner.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Mr. Hull is here on behalf of the
Respondent.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">The
hearing is being recorded, so please try to keep your voice up.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>And it looks like this matter concerns
Petitioner’s complaint with regard to a reorganization of a vending route in a
manner that the Petitioner deemed discriminatory under Act 260 and the
corresponding administrative rules.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN>The Petitioner filed a formal request for an administrative hearing back
on November 12th, 2009.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>On December
4th, 2009, this office received a request for hearing from the Michigan
Commission for the Blind, and on December 10th, 2009, a notice of hearing was
issued, setting a hearing for January 28th, 2010.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>We had a number of adjournments, and
also a few telephone pre-hearing conferences since that time, and then
ultimately, that matter was rescheduled for today’s date and time.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">And
are there any preliminary matters we need to address, Mr. Eagle?</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
EAGLE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>No.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>And Mr. Hull?</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
HULL:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>No.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>All right.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>The guidelines for the hearing will be
as follows.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>The hearing will be
conducted in accordance with Public Act 260, the administrative rules, and the
Michigan Administrative Procedures Act.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN>Evidence of a type commonly relied upon by reasonably prudent persons may
be admitted for consideration.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN>Evidence may be oral or written.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN>Irrelevant, immaterial, or unduly repetitious evidence may be
excluded.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Objections to offers of
evidence may be made and will be noted for the record.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>As will any determination to exclude
evidence.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Each side will be given
an equal opportunity to present their respective positions, and at the close of
the record what I’ll do is issue a recommended decision that will go to the full
commission for a final decision at the administrative level.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT
face="Courier New">Now, in this case, the Petitioner will have the burden of
proof, so Mr. Eagle, I’ll let you present your evidence first.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">Did
you wish to make an opening statement?</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
EAGLE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I think the -- your -- your
summary of the claim is exactly what I would use as an opening statement; that
the action by the state licensing agency was done in a manner that was
discriminatory to Ms. Patrick-Langtry, and we would seek some kind of
redress.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>But I -- we’ve already
spoken on a teleconference of a -- of proposed remedy, but that hasn’t -- has
gone nowhere.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Thank you.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>And Mr. Hull, anything you wanted to say
in opening at this time?</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
HULL:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>The Commission for the Blind
in its execution of Public Act 260 and the promulgated rules and working with
the elected committee, followed the wishes prescribed by the committee in our
previous motion that all parties had agreed to.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>That motion was known to all parties at
the time, and that we stand by our decision to comply with that motion, the
original motion that was made, and not change our position and eliminate a
possible job opportunity for a blind person.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>All right, thank you.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>And I see we have a number of people in
the courtroom.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Would anyone like
the witnesses sequestered this morning?<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN>Is it necessary or -- or not?</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
EAGLE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I don't see any reason.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Their testimony stands separate and
alone from each other -- </FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Okay.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
EAGLE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>-- as far as I’m
concerned.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Okay.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Mr. Hull, any objection to everyone
remaining?</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
HULL:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>No objection, Your
Honor.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Okay.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>And who will your first witness be, Mr.
Eagle?</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
EAGLE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Mr. Fred Wurtzel.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>All right.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Mr. Wurtzel, if you could come up to the
witness stand here?<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>If you go to
your left actually; there’s a bench here and then a chair right
there.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
WURTZEL:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Okay.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>And have a seat right in
there.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>And once you’re seated, if
you could state and spell your full name for the record, please?</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
WURTZEL:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>It’s Fred Wurtzel;
W-u-r-t-z-e-l.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>And Mr. Wurtzel, please
raise your right hand.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Do you swear
that the testimony you're about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth?</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
WURTZEL:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Yes, sir.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Thank you.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Go ahead, Mr. Eagle.</FONT></P>
<P class=Heading style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="mso-field-code: ' fillin 'TYPE THE NAME OF THE WITNESS:''"><FONT
face="Courier New">FRED WURTZEL</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=Heading style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Courier New">DULY SWORN
BY THE JUDGE, TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:</FONT></P>
<P class=Heading style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="mso-field-code: ' FILLIN 'TYPE ɽIRECT EXAMINATION'IF A REPRESENTATIVE IS ASKING QUESTIONS OR ɾXAMINATION'IF THE ALJ IS ASKING THE QUESTIONS:''"><FONT
face="Courier New">DIRECT EXAMINATION</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=BODYCAPS style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Courier New">by MR.
EAGLE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Good morning, Fred.</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Good morning.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">What -- in the past, have you had
a position with the Commission for the Blind?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Yes, sir.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">And what was that
position?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">I was the program
administrator.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">And how long were you
administrator of the program?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Roughly ten years.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I don't remember the exact --</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Do you -- do you recall the dates
from the time you started until the time you retired?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Well, I started working for the
business enterprise program as assistant to the program administrator in 1985,
and I retired in 2006.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Around ’96,
I think, is when I actually became the program administrator.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">And do you recall the date in 2006
that you retired?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">I’m old, you know.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I think it was -- it was around June
6th, or something like that.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I
can’t remember exactly.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Okay.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>So it was mid -- mid-2006?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Yeah.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Okay.</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">It was definitely June of
2006.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">To -- to the best of your
knowledge, does the business enterprise program have a vending -- roadside
vending program?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Yes.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">And what’s -- what’s the purpose
of that roadside vending program?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Well Senator Barbara Kinelly (ph)
introduced legislation at the federal level to allow blind people to operate
vending facilities on interstate highway and U.S. highway right -- rights of
way, and beginning in 1986, with the opening of the Mackie rest area in Clare,
Michigan came into -- into the highway vending program, and the ultimate goal of
it is, of course, to provide employment to blind people, and to provide snacks
and refreshments to the traveling public.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Is -- is the -- is one of the
purposes to provide a -- a living income to blind persons?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Yes.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">And to the best of your
recollection, by the time you had retired, had -- had the commission established
locations in virtually all viable locations on the highways in <st1:State
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Michigan</st1:place></st1:State>?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Yeah.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I -- I think -- I think given the give
and take with MDOT and all that, I think it was -- like you say virtually, I
guess, all -- all viable places. There may be some places that still could
support something, but I think we had it pretty well covered.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">What -- what would be considered a
viable location?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Well, we have a -- we had a policy
when I left -- I don't know what’s still there -- but when I left there was a
satellite policy that said that a vending facility -- highway vending facility
would be $150,000.00 minimum sales, with a goal of $200,000.00.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">And -- </FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Sales.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Were -- during your tenure were --
were -- was that goal met in any or all of the locations?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">I -- I couldn’t say for certain
that it was met in every last one of them, but it was certainly our -- our goal
to try to meet that goal.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">And were -- were -- during your
tenure as the program manager, were -- were there times when you would change or
make modifications to vending facilities and their satellite sites to try to
achieve that goal?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Yeah, absolutely.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>When -- and in accordance again with the
satellite policy, those things are to be reviewed each time a -- a vending site
comes up for bid.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Okay.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Now, turning -- turning to the location
that’s in question here, and our proposal to deal with inequities in or -- or
try to meet the area income or sales to the locations, do you -- do you have any
recollection of discussions having to do with the Howell/Novi rest
area?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Well, yeah.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I mean I -- a few years back there.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>But the Novi -- <st1:place
w:st="on">Novi</st1:place> rest area was a pretty good facility.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Unfortunately, they closed that and tore
it down with the -- with the revamping of the interchange of I-275 and 96 and
696 there, which just left Howell and -- and Brighton.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>One’s eastbound, one’s westbound.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I think <st1:place
w:st="on">Brighton</st1:place> is eastbound and -- and Howell is westbound.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>And those were the two that were left
together there.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">And was there any plans during
your tenure for the -- to make modifications to either of the other -- the
remaining locations, either Howell or the <st1:place
w:st="on">Brighton</st1:place>?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Well, as I recall, the -- the
Howell rest area or the -- no, the <st1:place w:st="on">Brighton</st1:place> one
-- the eastbound one was remodeled -- a new building was -- was built and
brought that indoors.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>My
understanding is that the Howell rest area, the westbound one, is to be
demolished and a new interchange was going to be put there -- </FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
HULL:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Objection -- </FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">THE
WITNESS:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>-- which would eliminate
that -- eliminate that rest area.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Go ahead, Mr.
Hull.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
HULL:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Your Honor, the witness is
speculating.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>All right.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I’ll note your objection, but I’ll allow
the testimony. </FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">Go
ahead, Mr. Eagle.</FONT></P>
<P class=BODYCAPS style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Courier New">by MR.
EAGLE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">So -- so you -- you had knowledge
that there were plans to -- to demolish the Howell location and put an
interchange in there?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">That’s my understanding,
yes.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Okay.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Did -- more recently, have you had any
conversations with anybody at the Department of Transportation?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Yeah, I talked with Scott Wheeler
about six, eight weeks ago.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">And what -- what is Scott
Wheeler’s position?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">You know, I can’t tell you his --
his exact job title.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>But he’s the
person that oversees the rest areas for the Michigan Department of
Transportation.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">And what was the purpose of that
conversation?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Risa and I were in a conversation,
and she said that she had heard that they were going to do that, and -- but was
uncertain about what the plans were, and I said, “Well, I know Scott; I’ll just
give him a call.”<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>So I called him
up and asked him, and he -- he called me back and we had a conversation.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Probably a five, ten minute conversation
about that.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">What -- what was your
understanding from that conversation of the -- the plans for that
location?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">What he told me was that the state
did not have -- didn’t presently have the funding to do -- do the job --
complete the project.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>But the
county -- <st1:place w:st="on">Livingston</st1:place> county is working on
getting the funding.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>But he said it
could happen tomorrow or it could happen three years from now.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>He -- he wasn’t certain.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>But it -- it was pretty much up to
<st1:place w:st="on">Livingston</st1:place> county what happened
next.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Okay.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>During your -- well, while you were
there were -- as the administrator, were there any plans to -- based on your
knowledge of the pending road project, were -- did -- were there any plans to
deal with that location in any way?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">There was -- there was always a
lot of conversation.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I -- I don't
recall, you know, any specific things at the moment.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I do remember generally that there was
always conversation about -- because it -- we never were able to get the --
after -- especially after Novi closed, it was, you know, below the $150,000.00
level, and so we was always trying -- looking -- we were always looking at ways
of improving the sales there.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Were -- were there any attempts to
add locations or satellites to that facility?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Yeah.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>We -- we were looking at post office
facilities -- it is my recollection is the post offices are pretty small.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>But we were looking at those as -- as
adjuncts to that -- to build that route up a little bit.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">And to the best of your knowledge,
did any of that come to fruition?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Not while I was there.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I don't know what’s happened
since.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Do you -- the commission contends
that they acted on a policy recommendation by the elected operators committee
about four years ago.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Do you -- are
you familiar with that?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">I don't know what policy you’re --
you’re referring to.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">With regard to configuration of --
of vending facilities on the roadside that would deal with helping locations
meet the $150,000.00 benchmark?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">I’m not sure I recall any -- the
specific action you’re referring to.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Okay.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Are -- do you recall any discussion
having to do with a vending facility in the <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Flint</st1:place></st1:City> area, having to do with combining
locations?</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
HULL:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Objection,
relevance.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>All right.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I’ll note your objection.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I’m -- I’m not sure what the relevance
is yet, so I’ll allow the witness to answer.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Go ahead, sir.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">THE
WITNESS:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I remember that there was
-- in staff meetings there was -- there was significant conversation about what
to do with the -- I’m trying to remember -- for lack -- lack of a better term, I
would say Frankenmuth and Davis -- Davison -- whatever the one on the south side
of Flint is that’s northbound, and combine those two north and south of
Flint.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>At -- at one point, we had
added Capac and Lapeer to the one on the south side of Flint, Davisburg,
whatever that’s called, and John Macinty (ph), I think was advocating that we
put the Capac and Lapeer ones with the Port Huron, and combine the Davisburg and
Frankenmuth, or whatever that’s called, together.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>That’s the best I recall of that
conversation.</FONT></P>
<P class=BODYCAPS style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Courier New">by MR.
EAGLE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Do you -- do you recall if that
ever went before the elected operators committee?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">I don't -- I don't recall that
going to the EOC.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Do you ever remember anything
going to the commission board with respect to a policy on that
location?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">No, I don't recall the -- that
that ever happened.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I --
</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
HULL:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Your Honor, renew my
objection based on relevance.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>All right.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
HULL:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>We’re here to talk about the
Howell vending route, and now we’re talking about Frankenmuth.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>All right.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I’ll -- I’ll note your objection, but I
don't know enough about the route, so I’ll allow him to answer the
question.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
EAGLE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Okay.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I -- I believe that’s all I have at this
time.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>All right.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>And Mr. Hull, questions for the
witness?</FONT></P>
<P class=Heading style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT
face="Courier New">Cross-Examination</FONT></P>
<P class=BODYCAPS style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Courier New">by MR.
HULL:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Mr. Wurtzel, you had mentioned a
policy of $150,000.00 for sales for highway vending routes.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Do you know if that’s
promulgated?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">To the best of my recollection,
it’s not a promulgated rule.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>That’s
a -- a policy that the elected operators committee and the commission board
adopted though.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Thank you.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Okay.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Mr. Eagle, anything else?</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
EAGLE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>No.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>For the witness?<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>All right.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Thank you, sir.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>You’re excused.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>And your next witness, Mr. Eagle?<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Do you need to check if someone’s here,
or -- </FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
EAGLE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Well, I guess he hasn’t
arrived.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>But we’ll move ahead with
Ms. Langtry.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>All right.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>And Ms. Langtry, can you make it up to
the witness stand, or do you want to -- does someone want to help her up to the
witness stand, or you can -- you can stay there if Mr. Hull has no
objection.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
HULL:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I have no objection, Your
Honor.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>No?<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Okay.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Why don’t you stay right there
then.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MS.
PATRICK-LANGTRY:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Okay.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Go -- oh, let me swear in
her; sorry.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>And ma’am, could you
state and spell your full name for the record?</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MS.
PATRICK-LANGTRY:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Yes.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>It’s Risa Patrick-Langtry; that’s
R-i-s-a P-a-t-r-i-c-k hyphen L-a-n-g-t-r-y.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>And raise your right hand,
please.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Do you swear that the
testimony you're about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MS.
PATRICK-LANGTRY:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I do.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Thank you.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Go ahead, Mr. Eagle.</FONT></P>
<P class=Heading style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="mso-field-code: ' fillin 'TYPE THE NAME OF THE WITNESS:''"><FONT
face="Courier New">RISA PATRICK-LANGTRY</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=Heading style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Courier New">DULY SWORN
BY THE JUDGE, TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:</FONT></P>
<P class=Heading style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="mso-field-code: ' FILLIN 'TYPE ɽIRECT EXAMINATION'IF A REPRESENTATIVE IS ASKING QUESTIONS OR ɾXAMINATION'IF THE ALJ IS ASKING THE QUESTIONS:''"><FONT
face="Courier New">DIRECT EXAMINATION</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=BODYCAPS style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Courier New">by MR.
EAGLE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Risa, when did you enter the BEP
program?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">It was 2000.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Keep your voice up
please.</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">2000 -- I'm sorry; it’s
2001.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">And was -- was your first location
a roadside vending facility?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">No, it was a snack bar.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">And did you have any other
locations prior to becoming a roadside vendor?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">I had -- I had two other -- I had
three snack -- three snack bars in that period of time, and also with a
temporary at the (inaudible) snack bar for about six months.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">And when did you become a roadside
vendor?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Six years ago.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>It’s been about -- this coming -- this
coming February, it’ll be -- about -- about -- well, six year, seven
years.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">And what was the location that you
had at that time -- you took at that time?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">It was the east and west side
location on I-96 in Howell -- Howell and <st1:place
w:st="on">Brighton</st1:place>.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Okay.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>So the -- the <st1:place
w:st="on">Novi</st1:place> location had already been closed?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">That was -- that had already been
demolished -- </FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">And -- and there was no plans to
re -- rebuild that -- </FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">No.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">-- correct?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">No.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">And then what -- at that time,
what -- do you recall what the annual sales were for those two
locations?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">At the time it was like about
55/45.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Fifty-five east side and 45
west side.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">That’s in dollars?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Yes.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>That was -- that was gross
sales.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Okay.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>So about $100,000.00?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">About that, yes.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">And -- </FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">When I took -- when I took over
the location, it was bid out at 86 gross sales.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Okay.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>And did -- at that time that -- the time
that you took those -- that location, did -- were -- were there any plans to
your knowledge to try to build that up?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">No.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">And --</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">The -- </FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Go ahead.</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">They were going to -- I looked --
I looked at the post offices there and -- because there was rumors that the --
they were going to start assigning satellites if the -- if your location was
near a post office, that they would add that on as a satellite.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>But that did not -- that did not come
about.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>And I checked into the post
offices, and it wasn’t even worth bothering with.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Because one -- one location -- the
Howell post office only had about 20 or 30 people in -- in there -- in that
location, and Brighton, there were probably like 40 -- 40 people -- 45 people,
50 people, something like that.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>And
it wasn’t even worth bothering with.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN>They had some private machine in there; like one or two machines.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>And it wasn’t -- wasn’t even worth
messing with.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Okay.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>And was there a -- was there a point in
time when the elected operators committee entertained a motion to reconfigure
the locations having to do with highway vending, not only with respect to yours,
but others nearby?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">We -- what do you mean, my
location that -- I know -- I know as of last -- last year when the word had it
that MDOT was going to demolish the west side location, that I had a
administrative review and James Hull and Joe Pelle promised that they would be
looking for sites for my location to compensate the west side.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>But nothing, nothing, nothing had been
done about it.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>And -- </FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">So --</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">-- they didn’t bother to -- to
proceed with that.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">So are you aware of whether in the
last 13 months, any -- any attempts with respect to contacting potential
locations -- </FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">No.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Last -- when -- when they were talking
about -- when they were talking about tearing down -- as of last year, tearing
down the location, the -- the professional -- professional assistant -- the PA
recommended that -- that they would re -- re-do the route and give me east side,
Okemos, and Holt Road location.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>But
that did not -- that did not happen, and it was taken to the EOC, and they --
they voted on -- on the -- leaving a location and -- and it happened that Ms.
Zanger -- Connie Zanger took the locations as -- as when the location was
(inaudible) Okemos, Perry, and Dewitt.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN>So she took -- she took Dewitt and gave it to another operator to -- and
added that to <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Ithaca</st1:place></st1:City> site, and then they took Holt or Okemos,
Perry, and <st1:Street w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on">Hold
Road</st1:address></st1:Street>, and -- and put it on a bid line and didn’t even
consider my -- what my situation was.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN>They -- they didn’t even bother with that.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>They didn’t even consider -- didn’t
consider me on my location, though they were gonna tear down west
side.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">So would it be a fair statement to
say that in -- in doing that with the Okemos location, that they -- that Ms.
Zanger helped another operator with low sales, but did not help you?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Absolutely -- </FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
HULL:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Objection;
leading.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">THE
WITNESS:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Absolutely.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>All right.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I’ll -- I’ll note your objection.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I’ll allow the question.</FONT></P>
<P class=BODYCAPS style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Courier New">by MR.
EAGLE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">What was your answer?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Pardon me?</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">What was your answer?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">I said absolutely.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>She did not consider -- did not consider
my situation.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Okay.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Did -- do you know -- do you have
knowledge whether the staff was -- was in favor of making any change that would
assist you?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Not -- not to my knowledge.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>They did not -- they did not attempt any
-- to do anything to assist me in any way.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Okay.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Now, that -- more recently it’s been --
it’s been alleged by the commission that the westbound Howell location is not
going to be demolished and replaced with an on-ramp to westbound I-96 at
Howell.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Is -- have you learned
something different lately?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Yes.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>My husband went online and -- and read
-- read the article and then the (inaudible) newspaper that <st1:place
w:st="on">Livingston</st1:place> county does have the money and they are going
to proceed into tearing down the west side location.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>What they’re doing now -- they got
federal money and also state money and what they’re doing right now is getting
bids -- working on getting bids and getting a situation where (inaudible) the --
the -- the schools, the -- all the big business people are -- they -- they were
in on the -- on the decision to -- to tear down that location and -- and now
they got -- they got the mon -- they got the pressure from the business to go
ahead and they voted to tear it down, and -- and it can -- right now it could be
done -- they’re saying -- they’re saying in beginning of ’12, but they’re also
saying it could -- it could happen before that time, because now they’re --
they’re putting in a bridge before they put the ramp there at the -- on that
intersection.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
HULL:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Objection, Your Honor.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>That entire answer was
hearsay.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>All right.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">THE
WITNESS:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>No -- </FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I’ll -- I’ll note your
objection.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I’ll --</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
HULL:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Thank you.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>-- I’ll accept it for what
it’s worth.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
EAGLE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I’d like to introduce
--</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">THE
WITNESS:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>No.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>That’s not hearsay.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
EAGLE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I’d like to introduce a
document.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>What are we, numbers or
letters?</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Why don’t you use
numbers?</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
EAGLE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Okay.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">THE
WITNESS:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Can I say something else,
please?</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Hang on just a second, Ms.
Langtry.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
EAGLE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>This is -- this is a article
that is -- it was published -- and speaks to the same testimony that Ms. Langtry
just gave, having to do with securing the funding from the county road
commission to move ahead with the project.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>All right.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>And Mr. Hull, any objection to proposed
Exhibit Number One?</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
HULL:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>One moment, Your
Honor.</FONT></P>
<P class=BODYCAPS style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Courier New">by MR.
EAGLE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Now -- </FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Hang on just a second, Mr.
Eagle.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>He’s still reviewing
it.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
EAGLE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Oh, okay.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
HULL:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Your Honor, the only
objection that I would have to this is it’s from this past year, November 11th,
and this matter was actually requested for hearing back in 2009.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>So I don't believe that this document is
germane or relevant to the cause of this hearing today.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>All right.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I’ll note your objection.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I’m going to accept that as Exhibit
One.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
HULL:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Thank you, Your
Honor.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 2in; TEXT-INDENT: 0in"><FONT
face="Courier New">(WHEREUPON, PX1 was admitted at this time)</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 2in; TEXT-INDENT: 0in"><FONT
face="Courier New">ALJ MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Go
ahead, Mr. Eagle.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 2in; TEXT-INDENT: 0in"><FONT
face="Courier New">MR. EAGLE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN>Okay.</FONT></P>
<P class=BODYCAPS style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Courier New">by MR.
EAGLE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Ms. -- Ms. Langtry -- </FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Yes.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">-- did you have an occasion to run
into a Department of Transportation employee at one of your locations
recently?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Yes, I did.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">And do you know what his position
is?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">He is Scott Wheeler’s right hand
man.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>He is a maintenance -- he goes
around to all the locations to make sure everything’s running
correctly.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">And did he -- did he indicate in a
conversation with you any problems at the Howell westbound that might -- might
increase or -- or bring about the closing of that location sooner?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Yes.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>He indicated that they’re not going to
put any more money -- monies into that location, anything major, because of the
tearing down of the location, and right now the -- the water situation there is
-- is that my coffee machine is down half the time the water is -- is off and if
they’re not going to put anymore -- anymore money into that location, and he
also stated -- I know that this is very relative to -- or important to this
situation, because I will be taking the Okemos -- Okemos route.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>He also told me as of year -- ’11, that
they’re tearing down -- also tearing down <st1:Street w:st="on"><st1:address
w:st="on">Holt Road</st1:address></st1:Street>’s location and the
building.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Okay.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Now --</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">And I just found that out just --
just a few days ago.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Did -- with respect to the Howell
east -- westbound, you -- does that -- the condition with your coffee machine,
does that have a potential of creating a safety or health hazard to the
publish?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">I would -- </FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
HULL:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Objection to
relevance.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">THE
WITNESS:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I would think so,
sure.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>All right.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I’ll note your objection.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>You can answer, ma’am.</FONT></P>
<P class=BODYCAPS style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Courier New">by MR.
EAGLE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">What did you say?<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>What -- what did you say?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">I would -- yes, I would say
so.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I’ve been getting -- I’ve been
getting complaints about the taste of the coffee and -- and also -- and it
really runs into my income of the machine being down three-fourths of the
time.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Okay.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Now, after -- after you learned from Mr.
Hull that the -- the -- the Department of Transportation supposedly was going to
keep the eastbound or westbound Howell open because of lack of funding, did you
ask me to do some research and -- </FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Yes, I did.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">-- either verify or -- or -- or
make sure that that information was correct?</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
HULL:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Objection;
leading.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">THE
WITNESS:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Yes, I did.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>All right.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I’ll note your objection.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I’ll allow the question.</FONT></P>
<P class=BODYCAPS style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Courier New">by MR.
EAGLE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">So your answer was yes?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Yes.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">And do you recall what -- what my
research came up with?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">The -- you’re talking about the --
the newspaper article?</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">No.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>It would have to do with the Department
of Transportation and <st1:place w:st="on">Brighton</st1:place>.</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">The -- the -- oh, you’re talking
about the -- my mind’s a blank here.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN>Repeat that question.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Did -- did I get information from
the Department of Transportation in <st1:place
w:st="on">Brighton</st1:place>?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Yes, you did.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">And what was the essence -- do you
know what the --</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">They -- yeah, they -- they -- yes,
they told -- they told -- they said that they -- they do have -- they do have
the monies to proceed with the project, and -- and it would -- it would be -- it
would be either -- either beginning of ’12 or the end, but they -- and possibly
before that.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
HULL:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Objection, Your Honor;
hearsay.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>He’s asking the witness to
testify as to information that he gathered from another source.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>All right.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
HULL:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Without providing any
documentation at this moment to validate that information.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>All right.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Do you have some documentation --
</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
EAGLE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>We’d like to introduce
that.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Okay.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I thought that’s where you were
going.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT
face="Courier New"><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>MR. EAGLE:<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>This is our -- this is an e-mail that --
back and forth from myself to the project director at the Brighton center that
is handling the Howell project, and his response as to the status of
it.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>And Mr. Hull, any objection
to proposed Exhibit Two?</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
HULL:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Only again that this isn’t
germane to the -- the matter of the hearing today.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>All right.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I’ll note that objection again and
accept Exhibit Two.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 2in; TEXT-INDENT: 0in"><FONT
face="Courier New">(WHEREUPON, PX2 was admitted at this time)</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Go ahead, Mr.
Eagle.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
EAGLE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Okay.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I don't -- I don't have anything further
for Ms. Langtry at this time, but I may have to recall her if our witness
doesn’t appear.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>All right.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>And Mr. Hull, questions for Ms.
Langtry.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
HULL:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Well, first I’d like to
object to Petitioner’s Exhibit Two again, based on the fact that it was never
authenticated.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>All right.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I’ll note your objection.</FONT></P>
<P class=Heading style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT
face="Courier New">Cross-Examination</FONT></P>
<P class=BODYCAPS style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Courier New">by MR.
HULL:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Risa, how are you doing this
morning?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">I’m fine.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Today, is the Howell westbound
rest area open?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Today is it open?</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Yes.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Yes or no?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Yes, it is.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">And as of this date, have you been
awarded another facility?</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
EAGLE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Objection.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>The same as his.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>It’s not germane to the hearing
here.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>All right.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I’ll note your objection.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I’ll -- I’ll allow her to
answer.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
EAGLE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Other than for settlement
purposes.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>All right.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>You can answer, ma’am.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Do you need him to repeat -- </FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">THE
WITNESS:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Could you repeat the
question?</FONT></P>
<P class=BODYCAPS style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Courier New">by MR.
HULL:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">As of today, have you been awarded
another facility?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Yes, I have.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Okay.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I’d like to call your attention to the
-- the exhibits that were presented on your behalf.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>The first exhibit, Exhibit One, the --
the news story --</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">The what?</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">The news article from the
Livingston County Press, I believe it is.</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Mm-hmm.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">You said that that article said
that all the funding was in place?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Yes, it is.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
HULL:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Your Honor, if I could have
an excerpt of that article read into the record.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Okay, go ahead.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MS.
ZANGER:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>“The project still depends
on formal funding commitments from several other agencies and funding sources,
including the Michigan Department of Transportation in <st1:place
w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Genoa</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType
w:st="on">Township</st1:PlaceType></st1:place>, said road commission managing
director, Mike Crane (ph).”</FONT></P>
<P class=BODYCAPS style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Courier New">by MR.
HULL:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">So, you’re saying that this
article said that all the funding was in place, but actually one of the passages
in the article stating that funding was not yet secured from all sources; is
that correct?<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">We -- my understanding is the --
is the funding is there; federal and state has the funding to proceed to go on
with the project.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Okay.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Let me now go -- take you to Exhibit
Two.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>You’re stating that this is an
e-mail that stated that MDOT said that the project will move forward.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
HULL:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>If I could have an excerpt of
that document read into the record?</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Okay.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MS.
ZANGER:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>“There are still some
funding issues that need to be resolved, and if they are, this project will
likely go to light in the fall of 2011 or 2012/13 construction
schedule.”</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
HULL:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Okay.</FONT></P>
<P class=BODYCAPS style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Courier New">by MR.
HULL:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">So are you still maintaining that
this document says that the project will move forward?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">At the -- at the -- at the time
when this e-mail was sent to us, it did say that.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>But since then, things have happened for
-- has gone forward with stating now they have -- they have the monies to go
forward with the -- tearing down the location.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Okay, thank you.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
HULL:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>No more questions, Your
Honor.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>All right.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>And Mr. Eagle, any other
questions?</FONT></P>
<P class=Heading style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Courier New">Redirect
Examination</FONT></P>
<P class=BODYCAPS style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Courier New">by MR.
EAGLE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Ms. -- Ms. Langtry, is it your
understanding that -- that if this -- if this -- the details on the funding are
not worked out, that there -- there will be a great loss of federal funds
towards this project?</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
HULL:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Objection;
speculation.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">THE
WITNESS:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Correct.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>All right.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I’ll note your objection.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>You can answer, ma’am.</FONT></P>
<P class=BODYCAPS style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Courier New">by MR.
EAGLE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Is that -- is that your
understanding?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Yes, it is.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">And -- </FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Understanding if -- if they don’t
go forward with -- with this -- with the -- with this -- with this project, that
they will lose their match money.</FONT></P>
<P class=Q style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">Q</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">And is -- is it your understanding
that they -- they are committed to capturing those federal funds?</FONT></P>
<P class=A style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><SPAN
style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Courier New'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore"><FONT face="Courier New">A</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New">Correct.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
EAGLE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I have nothing
further.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>All right, thank you.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>And why don’t we take a short
break.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>We’ll come back in about
five minutes or so.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
EAGLE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Okay.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT
face="Courier New">(WHEREUPON, a brief recess was taken at this time)</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>And we’re back on the record
in the matter of Risa Patrick-Langtry versus Michigan Commission for the
Blind.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>And Mr. Eagle, your next
witness?</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
EAGLE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>We’ll -- he was on his way
down -- </FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Oh, okay.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>What’s the witness’s name?</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
EAGLE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Dave Robinson.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Okay.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
HULL:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Your Honor, if I could ask
the relevance of this witness.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I have no idea.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I guess we’ll find out.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
HULL:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>And this -- was not the
promotional -- for that facility at the time of -- of the hearing request and is
-- is not currently an employee with the Commission for the Blind.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Was not in a management position to
oversee the disposition of this facility.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN>I guess I’m asking the Petitioner to -- to provide a reference as to why
this -- this testimony is relevant.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Well, I’ll -- I’ll let him
testify, and we can just the relevancy of it after -- after he does.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">MR.
HULL:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Very well.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Thank you, Your Honor.</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT face="Courier New">ALJ
MEADE:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>All right.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Why don’t we go off the record, just so
we don’t have a lot of dead air on there while we’re waiting?</FONT></P>
<P class=Colloquy style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.6in"><FONT
face="Courier New">(proceedings concluded at <SPAN
style="mso-field-code: ' fillin 'Type time hearing concluded i.e ɳ:30 p.m.':''">this
time</SPAN>)</FONT></P></DIV></BODY></HTML>