[blindkid] Audio Description; art or skill?

DrV icdx at earthlink.net
Sat Dec 6 06:56:44 UTC 2008


A few more thoughts...

I agree that description is a skill that can be taught, but just as is seen 
in many professions, some people can go through the motions & get the job 
done in a sub-adequate or an adequate manner, while others just have a 
natural knack for certain things & take it to the next level & do an 
outstanding job.

We have all met teachers who are good, bad, or outstanding - this is often 
not just a matter of training or experience -> that comes from within.

You may have heard the joke: "What do you call the person who graduates at 
the bottom of their medical school class?" -> "You call them 'Doctor.'" 
There are many doctors that are "book smart" , who have published many 
research articles, or who can quote statistics of endless research studies, 
but when it comes to taking care of patients, they may not very good 
clinicians & some of the best clinicians in some areas may not have gone to 
the "best schools" or have been that "book smart". Research studies in 
medicine often don't reflect individual patient realities. When it comes to 
the practice of medicine, I do believe in "the art of medicine". Call it 
what you like, but some people intuitively do some things much better than 
others with the same level (or perhaps even more) of training or experience.

I admittedly don't know the whole history behind the audio-description. In 
the last few emails, apples & oranges are already being mixed.

When it comes to educational issues, then if videos are to be used as part 
of the district or classroom curriculum, then it should in fact be mandated 
that they be made available in an accessible format. As has been pointed out 
there are different ways of achieving accessibility. Likewise, I feel it 
should be mandated (yes mandated) that any educational CD/DVD/web-based 
curriculums & even web-based school calendars (which our district kids are 
encouraged or required to look at as early as elementarily school) be 
accessible. If the school district or state dept of education has deemed a 
video or web-based teaching tool as being important for the education of 
students in that district or state, then they should be required to assure 
appropriate accessibility to blind students. There is a strong move towards 
web-based teaching & testing. Now is the time to be intervening & setting 
standards.

 As far as pleasure/recreation movies, etc go, that is a different issue. 
Unlike the money issue, I don't buy the position that adding 
audio-descriptions to a DVD would be "putting an undue burden on society" -> 
companies already have tracks with subtitles in various languages, or 
optional overlaying director commentaries, or that are dubbed in various 
languages. It just doesn't seem that this would be hard or overwhelmingly 
burdensome to do.

 I suspect a comparable issue to audio-description would be that of close 
captioning for the deaf. I just googled I briefly look at an FCC webpage 
(www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/closedcaption.html). Here are the first 2 
paragraphs:

"Closed captioning allows persons with hearing disabilities to have access 
to television programming by displaying the audio portion of a television 
program as text on the television screen. Beginning in July 1993, the 
Federal Communications Commission (FCC) required all analog television 
receivers with screens 13 inches or larger sold or manufactured in the 
United States to contain built-in decoder circuitry to display closed 
captioning. Beginning July 1, 2002, the FCC also required that digital 
television (DTV) receivers include closed captioning display capability. "

"In 1996, Congress required video programming distributors (cable operators, 
broadcasters, satellite distributors, and other multi-channel video 
programming distributors) to close caption their television programs. In 
1997, the FCC set a transition schedule requiring distributors to provide an 
increasing amount of captioned programming, as summarized below."

I did not read the whole page, nor have I done any research into this, but 
one could make the argument that there is some sort of precedent. I don't 
know how the deaf community feels about government intervention in this 
area.

Based on what I know & what my kids are experiencing, I guess I would be in 
favor of "encouraging" audio-description, not necessarily mandating it. I 
can't think of a good reason to discourage audio-description.

Take care,

Eric




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Carrie Gilmer" <carrie.gilmer at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)'" 
<blindkid at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 07:01
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Audio Description; art or skill?


> Dear Mike, and Eric,
>
> I disagree that description is an art--I would say it is a skill, and a
> trainable one. It is my understanding that a major part of the NFB's
> perceived resistance to audio description was that as usual first things 
> did
> not come first. We wanted (and still do) description (reading) of the
> running text, especially for emergency broadcast information as one
> important example. They are finally including that seriously in the
> discussion/proposals. It is kind of like the money--yes we would like it
> more accessible, but we really want jobs, and we want the money done in a
> way that is reasonable and makes sense and benefits the blind without
> putting an undue burden on society or giving some false notion of what the
> blind need.
>
> That said, when Jordan was in sixth grade he came home with the following
> first term grade slip for social studies:
> A,A,A,A,D,A,A,D,A,A,A,C-,A,Excused,A,A,A,A,A,A,D.
>
> All the D's, the C- and the excused were classroom videos with 
> accompanying
> assignments. He had been given no access. It was my first clear indication
> of how often video got used in the higher grades (use has increased both
> yearly and in type of class all the way through) and how often it was 
> graded
> or a key component to curriculum.
>
> I became concerned about access for kids and educational videos. It was a
> huge problem to have a classmate or even teacher try and describe: as has
> been mentioned they often describe things that don't matter like hair 
> color
> or talk over dialogue...I found a company based in Minnesota that does 
> audio
> description, CaptionMax. I began to talk with them. The owner and chief
> scientist I found to be much like Ray Kurzweil. He valued the people who
> would be using his product, and included deaf, blind and deaf-blind people
> in his employment and in advisory positions. He understood that things had
> to be designed from real people's experience and perspective from the 
> ground
> up. One also has to have a master's in English to do the actual 
> description
> or captioning at his company. He has taken all feedback seriously, and
> listened to my concerns too about control for the blind individual.
>
> When Jordan came to high school age he was asked to join their consumer
> advisory board and we have worked closely with them ever since. They only 
> do
> educational video at this point. However, increasingly Movies considered
> entertainment are used in the classroom: Schindler's List, Romeo and 
> Juliet,
> The Great Debaters are recent examples of films that were actually part of
> Jordan's curriculum, and had written assignments with the viewing of the
> film. Including testing on the analysis.
>
> Hopefully, text like you speak of Mike, on a Braille display, could become
> available and would be valuable for the deaf/blind population as well. I 
> can
> tell you these things are being thought of. In the post I sent with the
> links to the CaptionMax videos, there are many great choices, lots of
> science ones too, and they make feedback a requirement (as it is part of 
> the
> grant) but it is a way to get a lot more consumer feedback too, which they
> definitely want.
>
> We have a long way to go, but it is being done, I feel it is important for
> educational access in many instances and I feel it is important to get our
> voice in there. I agree with the positions we have taken to get first 
> things
> first.
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Carrie Gilmer, President
> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children
> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind
> NFB National Center: 410-659-9314
> Home Phone: 763-784-8590
> carrie.gilmer at gmail.com
> www.nfb.org/nopbc
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Mike Freeman
> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 11:27 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Fwd: Once a rider, always a rider
>
> Eric:
>
> If description is an art, as you say, how can one legitimately require
> it? After all, if one requires something in law, one has to have a valid
> standard by which to measure whether or not an entity has complied with
> the law.
>
> That was and is NFB's problem with *mandating* described video; we
> certainly aren't opposed to having it made available. But if it's an
> art, mandating it could present some First Amendment problems.
> (Incidentally, are symphony orchestras in violation of the law because
> they cannot present their output to the deaf?)
>
> In a slightly diferent vein, although I agree with you that well-done
> described video is fairly unobtrusive ("Saving Private Ryan" was quite
> well-done), it's still hard not to cover up sound effects -- sounds
> which, both in life and in movies, are often vital to comprehension by
> the blind.
>
> What *I'd* like to see is descriptions be made available as braille
> booklets that one could read along with the movies rather than as audio
> descriptions. That way, one could encourage braille reading and one
> would avoid completely the hassle of trying to figure out how to fit
> descriptions into DVD menus which, after all, aren't really standard --
> at least not yet. And the sound wouldn't be interfered with. I might
> even grudgingly be in favor of such booklets being available in large
> print. (grin)
>
> Mike Freeman
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "DrV" <icdx at earthlink.net>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)"
> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 5:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Fwd: Once a rider, always a rider
>
>
> Carrie-> You have a (another) natural talent! Beautiful description! I
> imagined my boys on that Harley!
>
> On the more serious side, being able to audiodescribe what is on the
> screen
> really is an art.
> I have seen/heard very good & very poor descriptions.
> Most of the professionally done audiodescriptions for movies have made
> it
> more enjoyable & completely tangible for my kids & when done well the
> narration naturally blends into the movie & is not really all that
> obvious.
> Most of us get pretty good at describing things over time, but I have to
> admit it is nice to kick back & enjoy a movie & then just add in my own
> commentaries like I would with anyone, sighted or not.
> I know this gets debated.
> For many movies, the added description is not absolutely critical to
> enjoying & getting the gist of the movie, but the added description does
> enhance the experience if done well.
> It really would not be all that hard to add the audiodescription track
> option to DVDs & I would be in favor of just requiring it.
> I think this videoclip illustrates this very nicely.
> Best wishes,
> Eric V
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Carrie Gilmer" <carrie.gilmer at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)'"
> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 11:33
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Fwd: Once a rider, always a rider
>
>
>>I was thinking as I watched it that without audio description you would
>>miss
>> much, well everything as there is no dialougue. A man with dark
>> glasses
>> and
>> a cane walks into a obvious motorcycle harley Davidson store with a
>> woman,
>> they go down some stairs he holds her arm but also uses his cane and a
>> store
>> sales clerk approaches. The woman motions to indicate it is not me
>> here to
>> look but him, the store clerk begins to show the man a bike (harley
>> motor
>> cycle), he looks at several bikes, walks around using his cane, and
>> uses
>> his
>> cane to tap one like someone might stereotypically kick a car tire at
>> a
>> car
>> lot when buying. Then he finds one he likes and he rather dramatically
>> hands
>> his cane to the store clerk who takes it and the man climbs on the
>> bike,
>> he
>> looks very happy about trying it like he found the one he wanted. Then
>> the
>> next thing you see is it appears a close up of this man driving the
>> bike
>> down the road. Then the camera pans out and he is on the bike on a
>> trailer
>> being pulled by a car being driven by the woman who gives some visual
>> indication expression of okay he is happy now so I am happy kind of
>> thing.
>> Then it shows the back of he man wearing a harley leather jacket with
>> the
>> words "born to be blind" with two canes crossed like an X and then
>> there
>> is
>> the words: Lotto millionaires are not like ordinary millionaires.
>>
>> Like I said it is not perfect...but it is not bad unless I am missing
>> something.
>>
>>
>>
>> Carrie Gilmer, President
>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children
>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind
>> NFB National Center: 410-659-9314
>> Home Phone: 763-784-8590
>> carrie.gilmer at gmail.com
>> www.nfb.org/nopbc
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On
>> Behalf Of trising at sbcglobal.net
>> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 12:52 PM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)
>> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Fwd: Once a rider, always a rider
>>
>> I was thinking the same thing. I did not get it.
>>
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