[blindkid] FW: [nabs-l] Line Ups

Mike Freeman k7uij at panix.com
Sun Dec 7 17:15:19 UTC 2008


Colleen:

You've piqued my curiosity. Why, do you think, is learning to wait in 
line such a tough concept for your visually impaired students to grasp? 
I'm not trying to salve my ego but it seemed like a no-brainer to me; it 
was no different than waiting my turn at nursery school or kindergarten 
when one was using a scarce resource such as a swing or teeter-totter. 
(Ah, mischief)

Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Colleen Davis" <bldhnds52 at yahoo.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)" 
<blindkid at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 7:25 AM
Subject: Re: [blindkid] FW: [nabs-l] Line Ups


Our O&M Specialist and I usually take our kids on several community 
trips to grocery stores, fast food places, and a discount department 
store beginning in early in elementary.

Just the concept of waiting in line is one of the hardest things to 
teach to kids who have visual impairments! They are often just told, "We 
have to wait in line." They move up and ask again, and on, (at this time 
of year) and on, and on!

We begin by finding a line with a few people and briefly explain to them 
that we are doing a lesson on waiting in line. People are usually 
enthusiastic about helping. Some even like to get involved. One time, a 
lady suggested that they "count off" and each one counted themselves 
aloud. It was so cool! My student was able to not only know how many 
people were there, but who they were. Most of the time, we give our 
spiel to the customers, and then have the student count the carts either 
with his/her hand or the cane. Then we get in line and wait, counting 
down as we move up. We cue the students to the things around them that 
will let them know that they are getting close: magazine racks, the 
dreaded candy and "impulse purchase" items, the sound of the scanner, 
the conveyor belt, the voice of the checker, and the phrases that are 
used (greetings, "Thank you", "Can I help you?", etc.).

As the child approaches an age where they would be finding a line on 
their own, we teach them to listen for the sounds of carts and 
conversations, along with their canes to find a line. We teach them to 
ask if they are in the correct line to ___ and where the end of the line 
is. Sometimes someone will say, "Back here", but sometimes it is, "Back 
there" (thanks, buddy!). If they get a response that helps them, it is 
usually not a problem for them to use the cane or their hand touching 
the front of the cart (not the person) until they arrive at the end.

We have had people say that they can go to the front of the line, but I 
thank them, but try to explain that we are working on a lesson on 
waiting in line and thank them again, with my student thanking them, 
too.  I prefer for my students to learn to wait in line just like 
everyone else.

It is an interesting exercise and I find that most people are very 
accommodating. We did have one person point out that we were in the 
express line and we had more than 10 items! That is when we added the 
"Am I in the correct line to ___?" piece! We learn along with the 
students every day.

As I said at the beginning, this is a hard concept and it takes a long 
time to teach. It helps to share the methods with parents so that they 
can use it, too.  It needs to be refined as the student grows. At the 
beginning, the child would not be shopping/ordering independently, so 
the rationale is the social skills involved in waiting and to assist in 
maintaining the sanity of the people around the child. :-) As they 
mature, their role is expanded with the goal that they will be able to 
complete these tasks independently as teens and adults.

This may be more information that everyone needed, but I hope it helps. 
If anyone else has suggestions, I am always looking for new ideas.

Colleen






________________________________
From: Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)" 
<blindkid at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, December 6, 2008 11:55:13 PM
Subject: Re: [blindkid] FW: [nabs-l] Line Ups

Carrie:

Seems to me what the below posts truly show is the all-too-prevalent
tendency on NABS-L to make mountains out of molehills.

Seems to me it's simple: you ask where the end of the line is and stay
close enough to the person in front to know when s/he moves. If you
don't, the people behind you will certainly tell you when the line
moves. But students seem preoccupied with "looking good", not sticking
out from the crowd and doing everything the "right way" -- whatever that
might be.

To me, lining up was nothing compared to working in a foreign language
imersion environment and trying to figure out what was on a cafeteria
line when one didn't know what things were called in said foreign
language! (grin)

Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Carrie Gilmer" <carrie.gilmer at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)'"
<blindkid at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 7:40 AM
Subject: [blindkid] FW: [nabs-l] Line Ups


I find it often interesting that things that come up for us often come
up
simultaneously on the student list--that is they bring it up and discuss
amongst themselves...here is a new example: Recall Stephanie had posted
about Kendra being shown a method that Stephanie questioned for lining
up...
I had thought but never added...
I think there is room in first grade for a bit of line swaying, that is
I
wouldn't expect her to be perfect like a line at a military academy or
boot
camp. I have spent many hours at elementary schools in the last twenty
years... and observed many a line. The sighted kids do not line up
perfectly...

I would also ask you to observe the subtle things in the discussion
below
and the differences between what they were taught and where they were
taught
it....



Carrie Gilmer, President
National Organization of Parents of Blind Children
A Division of the National Federation of the Blind
NFB National Center: 410-659-9314
Home Phone: 763-784-8590
carrie.gilmer at gmail.com
www.nfb.org/nopbc

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf
Of Valerie Gibson
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 8:42 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Line Ups

Hi all,

when i went to the Louisiana center for the blind a long while back,
we were taught to put the tip of the cane on the heel of the person in
front of us.  However when the person is moving around or hovering on
the outskirts of the line where it becomes confusing, i just think the
best way is to ask where the end of the line is, and when you find the
end of the line, as the person when you can ove up.  or rather, if
they could tell you when it's time to move up.

I'm shy too. part of the reason i've not posted to the list much, but
college teaches me that you have to take what you need, and do what
you've got to do to get things done, even if it's a matter of waiting
in line.

On 12/4/08, hannah <sparklylicious at suddenlink.net> wrote:
> I think the best way would be to light put your cane to the heel
> of the person in front of you.
> Best,
> Hannah
>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Serena" <serenacucco at verizon.net
>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 19:54:51 -0500
>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Line Ups
>
>>With respect, I disagree.  I think putting your hand on a sighted
> person's
>>shoulder is inappropriate, especially if it's a stranger.  Also,
> some
>>sighted strangers may interpret this as wanting sighted guide and
> grab your
>>arm without worning you!
>
>>Serena
>
>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Karrie Kinstetter" <skittlesfreak69 at gmail.com
>>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>><nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 8:37 PM
>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Line Ups
>
>
>>> Sarah, When I went to the school for the blind and other places
> that had a
>>> setting like this, I usually just put my hand on the person in
> front of
>>> me.
>>> This also helps a great deal seeing as I have a rocking tendency
> so if I
>>> put
>>> my hand on the person's shoulder, they usually don't mind and
> are
>>> perfectly
>>> fine with it.
>>> Mind you, those are the blind people.
>>> If it's the sighted people, they just usually kindly tell me to
> move up.
>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Sarah Jevnikar
>>> Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 1:30 AM
>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Line Ups
>
>>> Hi All,
>>> I was in my university cafeteria today and thought of one aspect
> we hadn't
>>> yet discussed.  How do you guys manage line ups? How do you know
> if it's
>>> your
>>> turn or where the line ends? In my caf there are several lines
> that
>>> converge
>>> so things can get confusing.  I know the obvious thing would be
> to ask the
>>> people near you, but I find I get shy and tongue-tied when I'm
> in
>>> unfamiliar
>>> settings alone so sometimes that doesn't work so well.  Any
> other thoughts?
>>> Thank you,
>>> Sarah
>
>
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>
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