[blindkid] MacBook Pro

Heather craney07 at rochester.rr.com
Fri Feb 26 04:37:23 UTC 2010 

Ok, two things.  A.  This site is awsum.  It was very accessible, and it 
rocked.  I really enjoyed it.  B.  This site is highly abnormal, 
non-normative on the internet.  I go all over the place and with the 
exception of sites designed for the blind such as NFB, ACB, the zone bbs, 
and some guide dog and school for the blind sites, I have never ever come 
across a site like this.  This, unfortunately, because it is a really neat 
site, is the exception not the rule.  It is encouraging though to see that 
steps are being taken on the internet to make sites accessible that are not 
blindness spacific.  Thanks for sharing this web site.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Thea Eaton" <thea at doodledoo.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)'" 
<blindkid at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: [blindkid] MacBook Pro


> JAWS works with Flash content very well, it will go into the movie and 
> read
> out any text that is already there. But buttons, movieclips, and 
> animations
> need to be tagged just like in HTML. If this is not done, then JAWS will
> read them out as 'button' without any alt text. In fact, with the proper
> tags, Flash content can be made more accessible than HTML content and more
> user friendly.
>
> And most educational content on the web is now being made accessible to
> screen readers, so if you are looking for the complete package for a
> student, then a PC with JAWS or Window Eyes is the way to go. If you are
> using a Mac Book Pro, with the limited Voice Over screen reader, then
> all-flash sites like this one for example:
> http://www.chicagoofficeoftourism.org/postcard/ will be completely
> inaccessible and you will miss out on a lot of content.
>
> I know that Apple's products are very popular right now, but in the past
> they have not done much for accessibility or put as much of an emphasis on
> accessibility as Microsoft has. This is why we support Microsoft products,
> and not Apple products, until they become more inclusive. Steve Jobs has
> expressly stated that Flash will not be supported on the iPad either,
> ignoring the fact that educational publishers are starting to use Flash 
> for
> all their educational content, eBooks, enrichment activities, language
> vocabulary activities, etc.. (I know this because we are helping them 
> build
> them). I suspect that under pressure they will make changes in the future,
> but until then I would not get a Mac Book Pro.
>
> Thea Eaton
> DoodleDoo
> www.doodledoo.com
> Where early birds learn.
> 1-888-42 DOODLE
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Albert J Rizzi
> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 10:30 AM
> To: 'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)'
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] MacBook Pro
>
> The flash players ar not tagged properly and therefore do not interface
> with jfw well at all.That  is my experience too.
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> CEO/Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York  10004
> www.myblindspot.org
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> doing it."
>
>
> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Heather
> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 11:14 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] MacBook Pro
>
> Um, I don't know all of the spacifics, but either you are wrong about JFW
> being able to deal with flash, you are probably right though, or, the vast
> majority of flash out there is not propperly tagged, which is most likely
> the case, because my very current version of windows and JFW gets it's 
> butt
> kicked by flash every single day.  Fortunately, Mac is working on fixing
> voice over, which is great because Macs really can be a neat asset.  A
> couple of people have mentioned the technology center through the NFB's
> institute, and I think, when I am ready to purchase my next computer, that 
> I
>
> will give them a call, instead of relying on our local adaptive tech 
> people
> at ABVI, because, they seem to know much better what they are about, and I
> am really intrested in getting info on Macs as well as on what is coming
> down the pipeline for Macs and windows computers in the future.  I checked
> with my friend, and she said that what her computer was doing better than
> mine, that I kept needing her assistance with was PDFs, as Mac's voice 
> over
> can handel them better than JFW, which can work with them, but not nearly 
> as
>
> well and as quickly as a Mac.  So, flash?  Windows 1, Macs zip, but PDF?
> Macs 1, windows 0.25.  lol  I think there's always going to be things that
> each system can do better than the other, a balance of pros and cons,
> because of people's different needs and varying preferences.  Have a nice
> day all.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Thea Eaton" <thea at doodledoo.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)'"
> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 11:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] MacBook Pro
>
>
>> Yes, all Flash content is accessible to JAWS, Window Eyes and Hal, as 
>> long
>> as - just like in HTML- the content is tagged and set up for
>> accessibility.
>>
>> Especially for older kids, I would choose a computer that can access
>> Flash.
>> Most high school textbooks are being migrated to the web, and will have
>> Flash content. We have just finished a line of accessible enrichment
>> activities for Harcourt School, for example, that accompany their online
>> textbooks. All these activities are on the web, in Flash and go hand in
>> hand
>> with their textbooks. Pearson education is also migrating their
>> assessments
>> online, in Flash. Many of their educational eBooks are also Flash based.
>> All
>> these learning materials will not be accessible on a Mac, because you 
>> will
>> only be limited to HTML content, which might be fine for browsing a large
>> portion of the web, but any interactivity such as eBooks, learning
>> materials, audio and video, will be inaccessible.
>>
>> Thea Eaton
>> DoodleDoo
>> www.doodledoo.com
>> Where early birds learn.
>> 1-888-42 DOODLE
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Sally Thomas
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 7:04 PM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)
>> Subject: Re: [blindkid] MacBook Pro
>>
>> I'm interested in the usefulness of the Mac for older kids.  I hear
>> comments
>>
>> like Heather's about her friend using the Mac so I'm really curious.  My
>> son
>>
>> is past the Cartoon Network stage.
>>
>> When he was younger, Flash sites he tried to access with JAWS were not
>> accessible.  I guess some of it depends on how the site is designed.  I 
>> am
>> sure that all Flash content is not compatible with JAWS.  I'm going to
>> check
>>
>> with the NFB Access Technology Team as Treva suggested to check on
>> usefulness of the Mac for older kids.  I think the suggestion to check
>> with
>> the student division is a good one too.
>>
>> Since it sounds like Apple is going to try to get the iPad placed as an
>> academic tool and since NFB has worked with Apple to improve
>> accessibility,
>> I think the Mac may be a serious contender for older kids.
>>
>> Sally Thomas
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Thea Eaton" <thea at doodledoo.com>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)'"
>> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 3:49 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindkid] MacBook Pro
>>
>>
>>> Apple's Voice Over screen reader is not compatible with Adobe Flash
>>> content.
>>> Screen readers that are Flash compatible like JAWS, Window Eyes and Hal
>>> do
>>> not have a Mac version. This would make all Flash websites for children,
>>> like Cartoon Network and other accessible Flash sites, inaccessible on a
>>> Mac. I would therefore not recommend a Mac for children who are wanting
>>> to
>>> use a screen reader to access the web.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thea Eaton
>>> DoodleDoo
>>> www.doodledoo.com
>>> Where early birds learn.
>>> 1-888-42 DOODLE
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Sally Thomas
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 12:37 PM
>>> To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)
>>> Subject: Re: [blindkid] MacBook Pro
>>>
>>> I believe that it is only the Apple mobile devices that don't support
>>> Flash.
>>>
>>> Sally Thomas
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Thea Eaton" <thea at doodledoo.com>
>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)'"
>>> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 11:05 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindkid] MacBook Pro
>>>
>>>
>>>> As far as I know, most of the screen readers do not run on the Mac.
>>>> Apple's
>>>> own screen reader is very limited to the OS, I think, and is not
>>>> compatible
>>>> with all internet content, like Flash. Because more and more Flash
>>>> content
>>>> is now made accessible to screen reader users, especially children's
>>>> content, I would not recommend getting a Mac, but a PC with an MSAA
>>>> compatible screen reader like JAWS.
>>>>
>>>> Thea Eaton
>>>> DoodleDoo
>>>> www.doodledoo.com
>>>> Where early birds learn.
>>>> 1-888-42 DOODLE
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>> On
>>>> Behalf Of Sally Thomas
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 10:27 AM
>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)
>>>> Subject: [blindkid] MacBook Pro
>>>>
>>>> Do any blind kids you know use a MacBook for school work?  My son has 
>>>> an
>>>> iPod Touch which he loves.  He is even able to type and send email from
>>>> it
>>>> despite the touch screen.  This has convinced him that a MacBook is the
>>>> best
>>>>
>>>> computer for him.  I'm wondering about the limitations of the built in
>>>> screen reader or any other idiosyncrasies that would limit its use.
>>>> Since
>>>> it doesn't require the purchase of JAWS or other screen reading
>>>> software,
>>>> it
>>>>
>>>> might be a good choice.
>>>>
>>>> Sally Thomas
>>>>
>>>>
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