[blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?

Mike Freeman k7uij at panix.com
Wed Jan 20 22:50:34 UTC 2010


Moreover, if, perchance, the dog causes some damage (and, let's be honest, 
it happens), it is the *parents* who are liable, not the teen. This muddies 
the waters of who is responsible for what.

Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Heather" <craney07 at rochester.rr.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)" 
<blindkid at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?


> That's a nice sentament, Really, it is.  but that is the point, they can't 
> handel the responsibilities.  Even if they accademically understand the 
> ramifications, they, not their parents, they, personally, cannot take the 
> dog to the vet by them self, they can not afford the dog's food, vet care, 
> medications, training equipment, etc, by them self.  The dog would have to 
> be owned exclusively by and handeled exclusively by the blind pre-teen, 
> not by the parent, and that simply would not happen in ninety five percent 
> of homes.  If the child forgot to feed the dog, the parents would just 
> yell at their kid and then do it for them.  They wouldn't let the dog go 
> hungry, and they certainly wouldn't call the school and be honest and 
> admit that their child was not always remembering to feed the dog and 
> reccomend that it be taken away.  If the dog was sick, the parent would 
> take the dog to the vet and would never let the child miss school to go 
> with the dog to the vet, and that is what has to happen.  A twelve year 
> old does not have the savvey or the clout to realize that vets, doctors, 
> professionals, I.E. professional adults don't always know everything.  A 
> twelve year old would never have the confidence or the social position to 
> argue with a vet who wants to give a vaccine, when a tyder would sufice. 
> .  If someone is still young enough to be told to go to their room, then 
> they are not old enough to handel a dog. What if the child is grounded for 
> doing something they should not?  That dog still needs to be walked and 
> more importantly, worked, and the parents cannot walk, let alone work the 
> dog for their child.  The whole thing that makes guide dogs great for 
> independence is for people who take the city bus every day, the subway, 
> walk several blocks, make dangerous street crossings, traverse complex 
> routes.  Twelve year olds, unless they live in downtown Manhattan do not 
> have those needs for a dog.  For instance, twelve-year-olds take school 
> busses, which pick up within a block of their house, and this is simply 
> not enough work for a guide dog, walking one block twice a day. Walking 
> around one school building all day, as in middle school or junior high is 
> not acceptable either.  Now, a college student on a large campus is a 
> whole different thing.  Even some blind adults do not have challenging 
> enough travel needs to warrent getting a guide dog.  I am all for 
> fostering independence in young people with disabilities, but not at the 
> expense of the dogs, or the rest of the guide dog using community.  All it 
> will take is a few twelve and thirteen year olds that can't handel their 
> dogs in public, who might jump up on someone, get into it with another dog 
> on the street, nip at a person's pant leg, for the reputation of 
> successful guide dog teams to be affected by association.  Any guide dog 
> could jump on someone, bite someone, grab food off of a restaurant table, 
> knock over a display of china in a store.  They are dogs after all.  What 
> keeps this from happening is good socialization, good training and good 
> maintainence of that training, which requires a great deal of consistancy, 
> aptitude and maturity.  Think about an access issue.  It is difficult for 
> some blind adults to deal with a cabbie or a restaurant owner who doesn't 
> want their dog in their cab or their place of business.  How is a twelve 
> year old going to cope with this? What adult, who is causing the access 
> issue is going to take a tween seriously?  Pre-teens can still be 
> independent, but independent at the level of their sighted, pre-teen 
> counter-parts, not independent on the level of blind and sighted adults. 
> Would you give a car to a twelve year old?  A car can be dangerous, a car 
> requires maturity and responsibility, a car is a privilage, not a right, 
> just as is a guide dog.  Just some food for thought.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)'" 
> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 10:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
>
>
> Here here!  Wy set the bar low when in fact a child of 12 years or 13 
> years
> has the capacity and maturity to handle the responsibility? Isn't it our
> responsibility  to give all children those tools they need based upon 
> their
> individual abilities to achieve all things possible in their lives. I do 
> not
> see the reason for nor the reluctance  to allow any teenager an 
> opportunity
> to exercise their choice for mobility and that it include a guide dog.
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> CEO/Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York  10004
> www.myblindspot.org
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> doing it."
>
>
> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Doreen Frappier
> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 9:40 AM
> To: (for parents of blind children)NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
>
> I am not opposed to having responsible 12 year olds own and care for a 
> guide
> dog. I believe that children mature at different rates. For example, 4-H
> children own and care for animals (on their own) at very young ages. They
> are responsible for feeding and caring for that animal. One of my 
> children,
> (sighted) is 13, and has been the sole trainer of a dog since she was 9
> years old. She has won many awards and competitions with her dog, 
> including
> adult dog shows. She is responsible for feeding and caring for that dog.
> When the dog gets her check ups at the vet, she comes to the vets office.
> It's true, a young person can not take care of the expenses of a guide 
> dog,
> but I am all for training teaching blind children to be independent as 
> early
> as possible. I think each situation is different. I am not aware of
> everything that goes into caring for and owning a guide dog, but I think
> some children are capable and should not be excluded because of
> age.
>
> Doreen
>
> --- On Wed, 1/20/10, Heather <craney07 at rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>
> From: Heather <craney07 at rochester.rr.com>
> Subject: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
> To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)"
> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 7:22 AM
>
> I just wanted to get some feedback on this from some parents of blind
> children and teens. I, personally, was absolutely apalled to hear that a
> local guide dog school, not mentioning names *coughs* Freedom guide Dogs
> *Coughs* has preposed a program to place guide dogs with twelve year olds.
> All of the other schools in the US accept teens no younger than sixteen or
> eighteen years of age, depending on the school, but twelve? I am happy to
> note that at present, no O and M instructors, parents or twelve year olds
> have contacted the school to enquire about this program, but I am dreading
> the day. This makes a mockery of those exceptional blind teens who are, at
> sixteen or seventeen, responsible enough, committed enough and have
> demanding enough schedules to properly care for, utalize and actually need 
> a
> guide dog. At what age would you consider supporting your teen in
> researching guide dog schools? At what age would you support them actually
> submitting applications? How old would you want your teen to be before
> actually being placed with a guide dog? Do you think that you would have
> the blunt honesty to deny your support of your child getting a dog guide, 
> if
> they were not emotionally, mentally, etc capable of utalizing a guide dog,
> at that time in their life? Do you think that you could restrain yourself
> from taking care of the dog, interacting with the dog, or doing things 
> that
> would undermine the ownership of the dog by your blind teen, acknowledging
> their sole ownership and responsibility for the dog, even if you, as their
> mother or father still have all other rule-making power in the house-hold?
> Finally, would you ever, honestly let your twelve year old apply for a 
> guide
> dog? I just felt this should be brought to the list's attention. Just me
> personally, I would not encourage my blind teen to start researching guide
> dog schools until age fourteen or fifteen, and I would not
> allow them to apply to schools until they were at least fifteen, and that
> is assuming that they are emotionally ready to deal with the demands of a
> guide dog, such as handeling an emergency vet situation, mentally able to
> care for the dog, such as, researching and selecting safe toys, effective
> medications and appropriate foods, mature enough to deal with the social
> implications, such as access issues, and that they actually had a need, 
> not
> just a want for a guide dog, due to a challenging travel area or complex 
> and
> demanding schedule of activities and classes. Please share your thoughts.
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