[blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?

Heather craney07 at rochester.rr.com
Thu Jan 21 03:22:50 UTC 2010 

I hope that no reputable school would grant priority to someone who puppy 
raised for them.  That is just not a good scene.  I would have to disagree, 
as I am the blind daughter of a blind mother, and the blind mother of a 
blind son.  My mother and I are both successful guide dog users.  I got my 
first dog at sixteen, and as smart, mature and capable a twelve year old as 
I was, I admit that I would not have been at all ready for a guide dog at 
twelve.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)" 
<blindkid at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?


> Hello Heather and listers,
>
>    What if the blind parents themselves are guide dog users? In this
> situation it seems that some role modeling would occur and the blind child
> wanting a guide dog would have a deeper understanding of what is required 
> of
> a blind person to benefit from the use of such dogs having observed their
> blind parents. In the past there has been too much generalizing and no
> emphasis on determining a blind child's ability to use a guide dog on an
> individual basis. There are a few instances where blind children have 
> raised
> guide dog puppies for several guide dog programs. In my mind these would
> receive priority in consideration for a guide dog as they would have all
> ready learned the basics and developed a clearer understanding of what is
> required of a guide dog handler of any age.
>
> Peter Donahue
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Heather" <craney07 at rochester.rr.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)"
> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 12:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
>
>
> That's a nice sentament, Really, it is.  but that is the point, they can't
> handel the responsibilities.  Even if they accademically understand the
> ramifications, they, not their parents, they, personally, cannot take the
> dog to the vet by them self, they can not afford the dog's food, vet care,
> medications, training equipment, etc, by them self.  The dog would have to
> be owned exclusively by and handeled exclusively by the blind pre-teen, 
> not
> by the parent, and that simply would not happen in ninety five percent of
> homes.  If the child forgot to feed the dog, the parents would just yell 
> at
> their kid and then do it for them.  They wouldn't let the dog go hungry, 
> and
> they certainly wouldn't call the school and be honest and admit that their
> child was not always remembering to feed the dog and reccomend that it be
> taken away.  If the dog was sick, the parent would take the dog to the vet
> and would never let the child miss school to go with the dog to the vet, 
> and
> that is what has to happen.  A twelve year old does not have the savvey or
> the clout to realize that vets, doctors, professionals, I.E. professional
> adults don't always know everything.  A twelve year old would never have 
> the
> confidence or the social position to argue with a vet who wants to give a
> vaccine, when a tyder would sufice.  .  If someone is still young enough 
> to
> be told to go to their room, then they are not old enough to handel a dog.
> What if the child is grounded for doing something they should not?  That 
> dog
> still needs to be walked and more importantly, worked, and the parents
> cannot walk, let alone work the dog for their child.  The whole thing that
> makes guide dogs great for independence is for people who take the city 
> bus
> every day, the subway, walk several blocks, make dangerous street 
> crossings,
> traverse complex routes.  Twelve year olds, unless they live in downtown
> Manhattan do not have those needs for a dog.  For instance, 
> twelve-year-olds
> take school busses, which pick up within a block of their house, and this 
> is
> simply not enough work for a guide dog, walking one block twice a day.
> Walking around one school building all day, as in middle school or junior
> high is not acceptable either.  Now, a college student on a large campus 
> is
> a whole different thing.  Even some blind adults do not have challenging
> enough travel needs to warrent getting a guide dog.  I am all for 
> fostering
> independence in young people with disabilities, but not at the expense of
> the dogs, or the rest of the guide dog using community.  All it will take 
> is
> a few twelve and thirteen year olds that can't handel their dogs in 
> public,
> who might jump up on someone, get into it with another dog on the street,
> nip at a person's pant leg, for the reputation of successful guide dog 
> teams
> to be affected by association.  Any guide dog could jump on someone, bite
> someone, grab food off of a restaurant table, knock over a display of 
> china
> in a store.  They are dogs after all.  What keeps this from happening is
> good socialization, good training and good maintainence of that training,
> which requires a great deal of consistancy, aptitude and maturity.  Think
> about an access issue.  It is difficult for some blind adults to deal with 
> a
> cabbie or a restaurant owner who doesn't want their dog in their cab or
> their place of business.  How is a twelve year old going to cope with 
> this?
> What adult, who is causing the access issue is going to take a tween
> seriously?  Pre-teens can still be independent, but independent at the 
> level
> of their sighted, pre-teen counter-parts, not independent on the level of
> blind and sighted adults.  Would you give a car to a twelve year old?  A 
> car
> can be dangerous, a car requires maturity and responsibility, a car is a
> privilage, not a right, just as is a guide dog.  Just some food for 
> thought.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)'"
> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 10:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
>
>
> Here here!  Wy set the bar low when in fact a child of 12 years or 13 
> years
> has the capacity and maturity to handle the responsibility? Isn't it our
> responsibility  to give all children those tools they need based upon 
> their
> individual abilities to achieve all things possible in their lives. I do 
> not
> see the reason for nor the reluctance  to allow any teenager an 
> opportunity
> to exercise their choice for mobility and that it include a guide dog.
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> CEO/Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York  10004
> www.myblindspot.org
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> doing it."
>
>
> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Doreen Frappier
> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 9:40 AM
> To: (for parents of blind children)NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
>
> I am not opposed to having responsible 12 year olds own and care for a 
> guide
> dog. I believe that children mature at different rates. For example, 4-H
> children own and care for animals (on their own) at very young ages. They
> are responsible for feeding and caring for that animal. One of my 
> children,
> (sighted) is 13, and has been the sole trainer of a dog since she was 9
> years old. She has won many awards and competitions with her dog, 
> including
> adult dog shows. She is responsible for feeding and caring for that dog.
> When the dog gets her check ups at the vet, she comes to the vets office.
> It's true, a young person can not take care of the expenses of a guide 
> dog,
> but I am all for training teaching blind children to be independent as 
> early
> as possible. I think each situation is different. I am not aware of
> everything that goes into caring for and owning a guide dog, but I think
> some children are capable and should not be excluded because of
> age.
>
> Doreen
>
> --- On Wed, 1/20/10, Heather <craney07 at rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>
> From: Heather <craney07 at rochester.rr.com>
> Subject: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
> To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)"
> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 7:22 AM
>
> I just wanted to get some feedback on this from some parents of blind
> children and teens. I, personally, was absolutely apalled to hear that a
> local guide dog school, not mentioning names *coughs* Freedom guide Dogs
> *Coughs* has preposed a program to place guide dogs with twelve year olds.
> All of the other schools in the US accept teens no younger than sixteen or
> eighteen years of age, depending on the school, but twelve? I am happy to
> note that at present, no O and M instructors, parents or twelve year olds
> have contacted the school to enquire about this program, but I am dreading
> the day. This makes a mockery of those exceptional blind teens who are, at
> sixteen or seventeen, responsible enough, committed enough and have
> demanding enough schedules to properly care for, utalize and actually need 
> a
> guide dog. At what age would you consider supporting your teen in
> researching guide dog schools? At what age would you support them actually
> submitting applications? How old would you want your teen to be before
> actually being placed with a guide dog? Do you think that you would have
> the blunt honesty to deny your support of your child getting a dog guide, 
> if
> they were not emotionally, mentally, etc capable of utalizing a guide dog,
> at that time in their life? Do you think that you could restrain yourself
> from taking care of the dog, interacting with the dog, or doing things 
> that
> would undermine the ownership of the dog by your blind teen, acknowledging
> their sole ownership and responsibility for the dog, even if you, as their
> mother or father still have all other rule-making power in the house-hold?
> Finally, would you ever, honestly let your twelve year old apply for a 
> guide
> dog? I just felt this should be brought to the list's attention. Just me
> personally, I would not encourage my blind teen to start researching guide
> dog schools until age fourteen or fifteen, and I would not
> allow them to apply to schools until they were at least fifteen, and that
> is assuming that they are emotionally ready to deal with the demands of a
> guide dog, such as handeling an emergency vet situation, mentally able to
> care for the dog, such as, researching and selecting safe toys, effective
> medications and appropriate foods, mature enough to deal with the social
> implications, such as access issues, and that they actually had a need, 
> not
> just a want for a guide dog, due to a challenging travel area or complex 
> and
> demanding schedule of activities and classes. Please share your thoughts.
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>
>
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