[blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?

Heather craney07 at rochester.rr.com
Thu Jan 21 04:06:28 UTC 2010


But, I was sixteen, not twelve.  I think that generally eighteen or twenty 
is a good lower age, but that exceptional sixteen or seventeen year olds 
should have the option, but twelve and sixteen are very different.  Four 
years can make a huge difference.  Just ask my mom, when twelve year old me 
wanted to date a sixteen year old boy.  His parents weren't keen on the idea 
either.  hmmm, I wonder why?  Um, because four years makes a world of 
difference, in dating, in maturity, in life skills, in readiness to use a 
guide dog.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)'" 
<blindkid at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?


> But why would you after obviously making this all work in spite of all the
> down sides, why in gods name would you not want that option that 
> possibility
> for another youth who could show the same drive and determination and 
> sense
> of responsibility you did? You are and were an  exceptional child, do you
> think that there aren't others out there like you?  They are much more
> common then most think.
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> CEO/Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York  10004
> www.myblindspot.org
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> doing it."
>
>
> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Heather
> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 9:30 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
>
> Yes, they do for you.  My mother does for me.  I do for my son, but they 
> do
> not do your job for you, or do the parenting of your child for you, or do
> your course work in school for you.  There are simply some things that
> parents should not do, and caring for your guide dog is one of them.  When 
> I
>
> was sixteen and being a tipical lazy teenager and sleeping in and my dog 
> was
>
> wining, my mother would say "Heather, you'd better take that dog out, like
> now, because if she has an accident I am not cleaning it up, you are." 
> When
>
> I came home from rehearsal at ten at night and was feeding my dog, mom 
> said
> "You need to feed her earlier, don't be lazy.  Bring her food with you to
> class, she cannot wait that long for dinner.  No one made you wait that 
> long
>
> for dinner."  I grew up with my mom telling me things like "You know you
> love your guide dog, when you only have time for one of you to go to the
> bathroom in between classes or on break from work, and you take your dog
> out."  Most blind children do not grow up with guide dogs in their house 
> or
> with blind parents, let alone blind parents who have or have had guide 
> dogs.
>
> Even with my awsum sighted father, who I love to pieces, I was constantly
> having to ask him to stop snuggling with my dog, explain for the 
> bizillionth
>
> time that "Dad, I have to rework this curb that she ran, I know it takes
> extra time, but I can't let this slide."  "Yes, dad, I know it makes a
> scene, but she ran me into this chair, and even if the whole restaurant is
> watching, I have to rework it."  "No, dad, she can not ride in the back of
> your friend's pick up truck, with out a crait, she could jump out and be
> killed."  I was sixteen, not twelve, and I had an intelligent, loving
> father, some kids have ignorant, indifferant fathers, I had a good mutual
> relationship with him, many kids have only an authoratarian relationship
> with their parents, and I was an assertive, confident, intelligent,
> persnickity little shit, most kids bow unquestioningly to their parent's
> wills, and would have given in.  It is appropriate for a parent to help a
> six year old learn to care for a pet dog, not to help a twelve year old 
> care
>
> for a guide dog.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)'"
> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 7:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
>
>
>> What parent wouldn't do everything for their child? My parents are still
>> doing for me as my parents and will do so until the day they die. That is
>> not an appropriate argument in my opinion. We all need to learn somewhere
>> and why not as early as possible. You seem to have little confidence in
>> the
>> innate ability and resilience of children, or at least that is what I am
>> hearing.
>>
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> CEO/Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York  10004
>> www.myblindspot.org
>> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who 
>> is
>> doing it."
>>
>>
>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Heather
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 1:30 PM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)
>> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
>>
>> That's a nice sentament, Really, it is.  but that is the point, they 
>> can't
>> handel the responsibilities.  Even if they accademically understand the
>> ramifications, they, not their parents, they, personally, cannot take the
>> dog to the vet by them self, they can not afford the dog's food, vet 
>> care,
>> medications, training equipment, etc, by them self.  The dog would have 
>> to
>> be owned exclusively by and handeled exclusively by the blind pre-teen,
>> not
>> by the parent, and that simply would not happen in ninety five percent of
>> homes.  If the child forgot to feed the dog, the parents would just yell
>> at
>> their kid and then do it for them.  They wouldn't let the dog go hungry,
>> and
>>
>> they certainly wouldn't call the school and be honest and admit that 
>> their
>> child was not always remembering to feed the dog and reccomend that it be
>> taken away.  If the dog was sick, the parent would take the dog to the 
>> vet
>> and would never let the child miss school to go with the dog to the vet,
>> and
>>
>> that is what has to happen.  A twelve year old does not have the savvey 
>> or
>> the clout to realize that vets, doctors, professionals, I.E. professional
>> adults don't always know everything.  A twelve year old would never have
>> the
>>
>> confidence or the social position to argue with a vet who wants to give a
>> vaccine, when a tyder would sufice.  .  If someone is still young enough
>> to
>> be told to go to their room, then they are not old enough to handel a 
>> dog.
>> What if the child is grounded for doing something they should not?  That
>> dog
>>
>> still needs to be walked and more importantly, worked, and the parents
>> cannot walk, let alone work the dog for their child.  The whole thing 
>> that
>> makes guide dogs great for independence is for people who take the city
>> bus
>> every day, the subway, walk several blocks, make dangerous street
>> crossings,
>>
>> traverse complex routes.  Twelve year olds, unless they live in downtown
>> Manhattan do not have those needs for a dog.  For instance,
>> twelve-year-olds
>>
>> take school busses, which pick up within a block of their house, and this
>> is
>>
>> simply not enough work for a guide dog, walking one block twice a day.
>> Walking around one school building all day, as in middle school or junior
>> high is not acceptable either.  Now, a college student on a large campus
>> is
>> a whole different thing.  Even some blind adults do not have challenging
>> enough travel needs to warrent getting a guide dog.  I am all for
>> fostering
>> independence in young people with disabilities, but not at the expense of
>> the dogs, or the rest of the guide dog using community.  All it will take
>> is
>>
>> a few twelve and thirteen year olds that can't handel their dogs in
>> public,
>> who might jump up on someone, get into it with another dog on the street,
>> nip at a person's pant leg, for the reputation of successful guide dog
>> teams
>>
>> to be affected by association.  Any guide dog could jump on someone, bite
>> someone, grab food off of a restaurant table, knock over a display of
>> china
>> in a store.  They are dogs after all.  What keeps this from happening is
>> good socialization, good training and good maintainence of that training,
>> which requires a great deal of consistancy, aptitude and maturity.  Think
>> about an access issue.  It is difficult for some blind adults to deal 
>> with
>
>> a
>>
>> cabbie or a restaurant owner who doesn't want their dog in their cab or
>> their place of business.  How is a twelve year old going to cope with
>> this?
>> What adult, who is causing the access issue is going to take a tween
>> seriously?  Pre-teens can still be independent, but independent at the
>> level
>>
>> of their sighted, pre-teen counter-parts, not independent on the level of
>> blind and sighted adults.  Would you give a car to a twelve year old?  A
>> car
>>
>> can be dangerous, a car requires maturity and responsibility, a car is a
>> privilage, not a right, just as is a guide dog.  Just some food for
>> thought.
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)'"
>> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 10:09 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
>>
>>
>> Here here!  Wy set the bar low when in fact a child of 12 years or 13
>> years
>> has the capacity and maturity to handle the responsibility? Isn't it our
>> responsibility  to give all children those tools they need based upon
>> their
>> individual abilities to achieve all things possible in their lives. I do
>> not
>> see the reason for nor the reluctance  to allow any teenager an
>> opportunity
>> to exercise their choice for mobility and that it include a guide dog.
>>
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> CEO/Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York  10004
>> www.myblindspot.org
>> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who 
>> is
>> doing it."
>>
>>
>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Doreen Frappier
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 9:40 AM
>> To: (for parents of blind children)NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
>>
>> I am not opposed to having responsible 12 year olds own and care for a
>> guide
>> dog. I believe that children mature at different rates. For example, 4-H
>> children own and care for animals (on their own) at very young ages. They
>> are responsible for feeding and caring for that animal. One of my
>> children,
>> (sighted) is 13, and has been the sole trainer of a dog since she was 9
>> years old. She has won many awards and competitions with her dog,
>> including
>> adult dog shows. She is responsible for feeding and caring for that dog.
>> When the dog gets her check ups at the vet, she comes to the vets office.
>> It's true, a young person can not take care of the expenses of a guide
>> dog,
>> but I am all for training teaching blind children to be independent as
>> early
>> as possible. I think each situation is different. I am not aware of
>> everything that goes into caring for and owning a guide dog, but I think
>> some children are capable and should not be excluded because of
>> age.
>>
>> Doreen
>>
>> --- On Wed, 1/20/10, Heather <craney07 at rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>> From: Heather <craney07 at rochester.rr.com>
>> Subject: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)"
>> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
>> Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 7:22 AM
>>
>> I just wanted to get some feedback on this from some parents of blind
>> children and teens. I, personally, was absolutely apalled to hear that a
>> local guide dog school, not mentioning names *coughs* Freedom guide Dogs
>> *Coughs* has preposed a program to place guide dogs with twelve year 
>> olds.
>> All of the other schools in the US accept teens no younger than sixteen 
>> or
>> eighteen years of age, depending on the school, but twelve? I am happy to
>> note that at present, no O and M instructors, parents or twelve year olds
>> have contacted the school to enquire about this program, but I am 
>> dreading
>> the day. This makes a mockery of those exceptional blind teens who are, 
>> at
>> sixteen or seventeen, responsible enough, committed enough and have
>> demanding enough schedules to properly care for, utalize and actually 
>> need
>
>> a
>> guide dog. At what age would you consider supporting your teen in
>> researching guide dog schools? At what age would you support them 
>> actually
>> submitting applications? How old would you want your teen to be before
>> actually being placed with a guide dog? Do you think that you would have
>> the blunt honesty to deny your support of your child getting a dog guide,
>> if
>> they were not emotionally, mentally, etc capable of utalizing a guide 
>> dog,
>> at that time in their life? Do you think that you could restrain yourself
>> from taking care of the dog, interacting with the dog, or doing things
>> that
>> would undermine the ownership of the dog by your blind teen, 
>> acknowledging
>> their sole ownership and responsibility for the dog, even if you, as 
>> their
>> mother or father still have all other rule-making power in the 
>> house-hold?
>> Finally, would you ever, honestly let your twelve year old apply for a
>> guide
>> dog? I just felt this should be brought to the list's attention. Just me
>> personally, I would not encourage my blind teen to start researching 
>> guide
>> dog schools until age fourteen or fifteen, and I would not
>> allow them to apply to schools until they were at least fifteen, and that
>> is assuming that they are emotionally ready to deal with the demands of a
>> guide dog, such as handeling an emergency vet situation, mentally able to
>> care for the dog, such as, researching and selecting safe toys, effective
>> medications and appropriate foods, mature enough to deal with the social
>> implications, such as access issues, and that they actually had a need,
>> not
>> just a want for a guide dog, due to a challenging travel area or complex
>> and
>> demanding schedule of activities and classes. Please share your thoughts.
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