[blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?

Albert J Rizzi albert at myblindspot.org
Thu Jan 21 13:52:07 UTC 2010


Peter may I suggest, rather then think we are here to suggest what is
appropriate or not, that the reason for being here is to discuss options,
talk about what has or has not worked, how others have found successful
tools to empower their children to greatness and to allow those herein to
pick and choose what could compliment their choices or help them make more
informed ones, regardless of who here deems such appropriate or not? What
might be appropriate for one is not always  true for another. A cookie
cutter approach to things is not always the best approach's like your
thinking and perhaps could promote the position of younger guides and a
study for such through my organization is I could find the funding.

Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
CEO/Founder
My Blind Spot, Inc.
90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
New York, New York  10004
www.myblindspot.org
PH: 917-553-0347
Fax: 212-858-5759
"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
doing it."


Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn



-----Original Message-----
From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Peter Donahue
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 9:54 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?

Hello Heather and listers,

    I believe that is the purpose of the NFB through affiliates as NAGDU and

NOPBC to do just that teach and empower parents to insure that their blind 
child receives training in blindness skills including the use of a guide dog

if desired and to know when such considerations are appropriate options and 
when they are not.

Peter Donahue
. ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Heather" <craney07 at rochester.rr.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)" 
<blindkid at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 8:19 PM
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?


We, are guide dog trainers, experienced guide dog handlers, etc, who know
better than most sighted parents, what guide dogs can do, what it takes to
work a guide dog and so on.  Yes, a parent is the expert on their child, but
that does not mean that the parent will always know what their child is
ready for.  How could a parent, who is not familiar with big city life,
accurately judge if their eleven year old is ready to ride the subway?  How
could the average parent know if their advanced fourteen-year-old is ready
to take a three hundred college level course in theoretical astro-physics?
They couldn't know.  Yes, we help them learn to read, to do many things, but
that is the point.  We should help them learn how to develop good mobility
skills, so that when they are old enough they will be ready to train with a
guide dog.  We should help them learn to care for a pet dog, not a guide
dog.  The implication is that if you are working a dog, you are the one
working with it, and caring for it, not your parents.  Most of what I was
getting at was that having a guide dog, is more than simple pet care.  It is
public relations, daily diplomacy, it is advocacy, it is like having a child
of your own, it is like owning a powerful and potentially dangerous machine,
all rolled into one.  I was a rediculously advanced child in terms of social
skills and accademics, very responsible and very bright.  I traveled to
Seattle Washington and back, all by my self, switching planes both ways when
I was thirteen, for instance.  But even I do not think that I should have
had a dog at twelve years old.  Another thing to take into account is the
environment the dog would work in.  Highschoolers often hastle a dog, junior
high schoolers or middle schoolers do ten times worse, and while a very
mature high schooler can work to correct this, a twelve year old can often
barely defend them self, let alone their dog to their peers.  It is the
responsibility of a handler to make sure that there are fair working
conditions for their dog, not the job of their supervisor, co-workers,
fellow students, teacher or parent.  A twelve year old eager to fit in,
would have a high likelyhood of letting other students pet their dog,
because they want to be liked, but this will undo the dog's training and
will be false and superficial.  If they want to be your child's friend
simply because of their dog, then they are shallow and your child does not
need false friends like that.  How do you expect the twelve year old to cope
with the teacher who says "No, he can wait." when the child explains that
their dog is wining and needs to go out right now, even if it is the middle
of social studies class?  At sixteen, I was able to say with an amused and
non-confrontational manner "I'm really sorry, but she needs to go out and
park right now, or this going to be a nun-too-pleasant spot on this carpet.
And yeah, that's the deal." while getting my dog up and heading out of the
room.  No twelve year old would have the back bone to try that stunt, or if
they did, they would not have the young adult rapoure with their teachers or
the diplomacy to pull that off with out a detention and a nasty spot on the
carpet both being the result.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)'"
<blindkid at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 7:04 PM
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?


> Wow, you need to take a deep breath. Being a parent is part of all of
> that.
> did your child learn to read alone? Wipe their nose alone? Why is this any
> different? I say give them what they can handle and if the parents say
> they
> cane handle it then who are we to deny that.
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> CEO/Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York  10004
> www.myblindspot.org
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> doing it."
>
>
> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Heather
> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 1:46 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
>
> It is all well and good to go with your dog and your mommy to the vet's
> office, but to be the one to make all medical decissions about the dog
> must
> be the responsibility of the handler.  You sound very knowledgable about
> dogs, but what of the twelve year old who has to defy his parents and
> refuse
>
> a vaccine and insist on a tyder, or who must tell his parents that they
> are
> not allowed to give it table scraps, when they keep doing that?  Do you
> really think the parents will listen?  Hell no.  I know blind adults who
> have to limit their parents' or family's interactions with their dog or
> move
>
> out, because they can not respect the guide dog handler relationship.
> Also,
>
> it is so much more than feeding, it is selecting a human grade dog food,.
> It is more than brushing the dog, it is improvising a make-shift
> water-proof
>
> bandage out of a scrunchy, a sock and a condom, for a severely gushing cut
> paw on the street.  It is not just picking up poop, it is being mature
> enough to notice and keep track of the consistancy and odor of stool, to
> be
> aware of potential illness, , or having the wherewithall to clean up an
> accident without help, in a public place.  It is not about doing simple
> obediants, it is about being able to defend your dog when ignorant people
> think you are abusing the dog for giving it a leash correction, or that it
> is misbehaving by taking you across a lawn, when the side walk is blocked.
> It is about being able to diplomatically gain access to an Indian
> restaurant
>
> when the owners are upset by the dog's presence.  It is about being able
> to
> scream right back at an ignorant cabbie and call the police on your cell
> phone and refuse to move, while you wait for them, even when the cabbie is
> pushing on your bags and yelling at you to get out of their cab.  It is so
> much more than raising a goat for 4H, or taking your show dog through
> adjility or confirmation trials.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Doreen Frappier" <dcfrappier at yahoo.com>
> To: " (for parents of blind children)NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List"
> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 9:40 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
>
>
> I am not opposed to having responsible 12 year olds own and care for a
> guide
>
> dog. I believe that children mature at different rates. For example, 4-H
> children own and care for animals (on their own) at very young ages. They
> are responsible for feeding and caring for that animal. One of my
> children,
> (sighted) is 13, and has been the sole trainer of a dog since she was 9
> years old. She has won many awards and competitions with her dog,
> including
> adult dog shows. She is responsible for feeding and caring for that dog.
> When the dog gets her check ups at the vet, she comes to the vets office.
> It's true, a young person can not take care of the expenses of a guide
> dog,
> but I am all for training teaching blind children to be independent as
> early
>
> as possible. I think each situation is different. I am not aware of
> everything that goes into caring for and owning a guide dog, but I think
> some children are capable and should not be excluded because of
> age.
>
> Doreen
>
> --- On Wed, 1/20/10, Heather <craney07 at rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>
> From: Heather <craney07 at rochester.rr.com>
> Subject: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
> To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)"
> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 7:22 AM
>
> I just wanted to get some feedback on this from some parents of blind
> children and teens. I, personally, was absolutely apalled to hear that a
> local guide dog school, not mentioning names *coughs* Freedom guide Dogs
> *Coughs* has preposed a program to place guide dogs with twelve year olds.
> All of the other schools in the US accept teens no younger than sixteen or
> eighteen years of age, depending on the school, but twelve? I am happy to
> note that at present, no O and M instructors, parents or twelve year olds
> have contacted the school to enquire about this program, but I am dreading
> the day. This makes a mockery of those exceptional blind teens who are, at
> sixteen or seventeen, responsible enough, committed enough and have
> demanding enough schedules to properly care for, utalize and actually need
> a
>
> guide dog. At what age would you consider supporting your teen in
> researching guide dog schools? At what age would you support them actually
> submitting applications? How old would you want your teen to be before
> actually being placed with a guide dog? Do you think that you would have
> the
>
> blunt honesty to deny your support of your child getting a dog guide, if
> they were not emotionally, mentally, etc capable of utalizing a guide dog,
> at that time in their life? Do you think that you could restrain yourself
> from taking care of the dog, interacting with the dog, or doing things
> that
> would undermine the ownership of the dog by your blind teen, acknowledging
> their sole ownership and responsibility for the dog, even if you, as their
> mother or father still have all other rule-making power in the house-hold?
> Finally, would you ever, honestly let your twelve year old apply for a
> guide
>
> dog? I just felt this should be brought to the list's attention. Just me
> personally, I would not encourage my blind teen to start researching guide
> dog schools until age fourteen or fifteen, and I would not
> allow them to apply to schools until they were at least fifteen, and that
> is assuming that they are emotionally ready to deal with the demands of a
> guide dog, such as handeling an emergency vet situation, mentally able to
> care for the dog, such as, researching and selecting safe toys, effective
> medications and appropriate foods, mature enough to deal with the social
> implications, such as access issues, and that they actually had a need,
> not
> just a want for a guide dog, due to a challenging travel area or complex
> and
>
> demanding schedule of activities and classes. Please share your thoughts.
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