[blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?

Thu Jan 21 17:56:29 UTC 2010

Thanks for the compliment.  I have a problem with pre-teens having guide 
dogs, not teens, and with schools actively advertising for very young 
applicants.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)'" 
<blindkid at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 10:40 PM
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?


>I do not think it ridiculous that you did those things when you were mature
> enough and responsible enough to do so. I as and educator believe that 
> many
> children possess  the same qualities you did and they should have that
> option. Lets agree to disagree, I just for the life of me do not 
> understand
> how someone as successful at being a guide dog handler as early as you 
> were
> would be so adamant about teenagers who are blind having another option in
> their life. I wish you peace.
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> CEO/Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York  10004
> www.myblindspot.org
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> doing it."
>
>
> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Heather
> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 9:19 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
>
> We, are guide dog trainers, experienced guide dog handlers, etc, who know
> better than most sighted parents, what guide dogs can do, what it takes to
> work a guide dog and so on.  Yes, a parent is the expert on their child, 
> but
>
> that does not mean that the parent will always know what their child is
> ready for.  How could a parent, who is not familiar with big city life,
> accurately judge if their eleven year old is ready to ride the subway? 
> How
> could the average parent know if their advanced fourteen-year-old is ready
> to take a three hundred college level course in theoretical astro-physics?
> They couldn't know.  Yes, we help them learn to read, to do many things, 
> but
>
> that is the point.  We should help them learn how to develop good mobility
> skills, so that when they are old enough they will be ready to train with 
> a
> guide dog.  We should help them learn to care for a pet dog, not a guide
> dog.  The implication is that if you are working a dog, you are the one
> working with it, and caring for it, not your parents.  Most of what I was
> getting at was that having a guide dog, is more than simple pet care.  It 
> is
>
> public relations, daily diplomacy, it is advocacy, it is like having a 
> child
>
> of your own, it is like owning a powerful and potentially dangerous 
> machine,
>
> all rolled into one.  I was a rediculously advanced child in terms of 
> social
>
> skills and accademics, very responsible and very bright.  I traveled to
> Seattle Washington and back, all by my self, switching planes both ways 
> when
>
> I was thirteen, for instance.  But even I do not think that I should have
> had a dog at twelve years old.  Another thing to take into account is the
> environment the dog would work in.  Highschoolers often hastle a dog, 
> junior
>
> high schoolers or middle schoolers do ten times worse, and while a very
> mature high schooler can work to correct this, a twelve year old can often
> barely defend them self, let alone their dog to their peers.  It is the
> responsibility of a handler to make sure that there are fair working
> conditions for their dog, not the job of their supervisor, co-workers,
> fellow students, teacher or parent.  A twelve year old eager to fit in,
> would have a high likelyhood of letting other students pet their dog,
> because they want to be liked, but this will undo the dog's training and
> will be false and superficial.  If they want to be your child's friend
> simply because of their dog, then they are shallow and your child does not
> need false friends like that.  How do you expect the twelve year old to 
> cope
>
> with the teacher who says "No, he can wait." when the child explains that
> their dog is wining and needs to go out right now, even if it is the 
> middle
> of social studies class?  At sixteen, I was able to say with an amused and
> non-confrontational manner "I'm really sorry, but she needs to go out and
> park right now, or this going to be a nun-too-pleasant spot on this 
> carpet.
> And yeah, that's the deal." while getting my dog up and heading out of the
> room.  No twelve year old would have the back bone to try that stunt, or 
> if
> they did, they would not have the young adult rapoure with their teachers 
> or
>
> the diplomacy to pull that off with out a detention and a nasty spot on 
> the
> carpet both being the result.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)'"
> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 7:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
>
>
>> Wow, you need to take a deep breath. Being a parent is part of all of
>> that.
>> did your child learn to read alone? Wipe their nose alone? Why is this 
>> any
>> different? I say give them what they can handle and if the parents say
>> they
>> cane handle it then who are we to deny that.
>>
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> CEO/Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York  10004
>> www.myblindspot.org
>> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who 
>> is
>> doing it."
>>
>>
>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Heather
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 1:46 PM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)
>> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
>>
>> It is all well and good to go with your dog and your mommy to the vet's
>> office, but to be the one to make all medical decissions about the dog
>> must
>> be the responsibility of the handler.  You sound very knowledgable about
>> dogs, but what of the twelve year old who has to defy his parents and
>> refuse
>>
>> a vaccine and insist on a tyder, or who must tell his parents that they
>> are
>> not allowed to give it table scraps, when they keep doing that?  Do you
>> really think the parents will listen?  Hell no.  I know blind adults who
>> have to limit their parents' or family's interactions with their dog or
>> move
>>
>> out, because they can not respect the guide dog handler relationship.
>> Also,
>>
>> it is so much more than feeding, it is selecting a human grade dog food,.
>> It is more than brushing the dog, it is improvising a make-shift
>> water-proof
>>
>> bandage out of a scrunchy, a sock and a condom, for a severely gushing 
>> cut
>> paw on the street.  It is not just picking up poop, it is being mature
>> enough to notice and keep track of the consistancy and odor of stool, to
>> be
>> aware of potential illness, , or having the wherewithall to clean up an
>> accident without help, in a public place.  It is not about doing simple
>> obediants, it is about being able to defend your dog when ignorant people
>> think you are abusing the dog for giving it a leash correction, or that 
>> it
>> is misbehaving by taking you across a lawn, when the side walk is 
>> blocked.
>> It is about being able to diplomatically gain access to an Indian
>> restaurant
>>
>> when the owners are upset by the dog's presence.  It is about being able
>> to
>> scream right back at an ignorant cabbie and call the police on your cell
>> phone and refuse to move, while you wait for them, even when the cabbie 
>> is
>> pushing on your bags and yelling at you to get out of their cab.  It is 
>> so
>> much more than raising a goat for 4H, or taking your show dog through
>> adjility or confirmation trials.
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Doreen Frappier" <dcfrappier at yahoo.com>
>> To: " (for parents of blind children)NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List"
>> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 9:40 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
>>
>>
>> I am not opposed to having responsible 12 year olds own and care for a
>> guide
>>
>> dog. I believe that children mature at different rates. For example, 4-H
>> children own and care for animals (on their own) at very young ages. They
>> are responsible for feeding and caring for that animal. One of my
>> children,
>> (sighted) is 13, and has been the sole trainer of a dog since she was 9
>> years old. She has won many awards and competitions with her dog,
>> including
>> adult dog shows. She is responsible for feeding and caring for that dog.
>> When the dog gets her check ups at the vet, she comes to the vets office.
>> It's true, a young person can not take care of the expenses of a guide
>> dog,
>> but I am all for training teaching blind children to be independent as
>> early
>>
>> as possible. I think each situation is different. I am not aware of
>> everything that goes into caring for and owning a guide dog, but I think
>> some children are capable and should not be excluded because of
>> age.
>>
>> Doreen
>>
>> --- On Wed, 1/20/10, Heather <craney07 at rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>> From: Heather <craney07 at rochester.rr.com>
>> Subject: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)"
>> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
>> Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 7:22 AM
>>
>> I just wanted to get some feedback on this from some parents of blind
>> children and teens. I, personally, was absolutely apalled to hear that a
>> local guide dog school, not mentioning names *coughs* Freedom guide Dogs
>> *Coughs* has preposed a program to place guide dogs with twelve year 
>> olds.
>> All of the other schools in the US accept teens no younger than sixteen 
>> or
>> eighteen years of age, depending on the school, but twelve? I am happy to
>> note that at present, no O and M instructors, parents or twelve year olds
>> have contacted the school to enquire about this program, but I am 
>> dreading
>> the day. This makes a mockery of those exceptional blind teens who are, 
>> at
>> sixteen or seventeen, responsible enough, committed enough and have
>> demanding enough schedules to properly care for, utalize and actually 
>> need
>
>> a
>>
>> guide dog. At what age would you consider supporting your teen in
>> researching guide dog schools? At what age would you support them 
>> actually
>> submitting applications? How old would you want your teen to be before
>> actually being placed with a guide dog? Do you think that you would have
>> the
>>
>> blunt honesty to deny your support of your child getting a dog guide, if
>> they were not emotionally, mentally, etc capable of utalizing a guide 
>> dog,
>> at that time in their life? Do you think that you could restrain yourself
>> from taking care of the dog, interacting with the dog, or doing things
>> that
>> would undermine the ownership of the dog by your blind teen, 
>> acknowledging
>> their sole ownership and responsibility for the dog, even if you, as 
>> their
>> mother or father still have all other rule-making power in the 
>> house-hold?
>> Finally, would you ever, honestly let your twelve year old apply for a
>> guide
>>
>> dog? I just felt this should be brought to the list's attention. Just me
>> personally, I would not encourage my blind teen to start researching 
>> guide
>> dog schools until age fourteen or fifteen, and I would not
>> allow them to apply to schools until they were at least fifteen, and that
>> is assuming that they are emotionally ready to deal with the demands of a
>> guide dog, such as handeling an emergency vet situation, mentally able to
>> care for the dog, such as, researching and selecting safe toys, effective
>> medications and appropriate foods, mature enough to deal with the social
>> implications, such as access issues, and that they actually had a need,
>> not
>> just a want for a guide dog, due to a challenging travel area or complex
>> and
>>
>> demanding schedule of activities and classes. Please share your thoughts.
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