[blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
Heather
craney07 at rochester.rr.com
Thu Jan 21 18:13:38 UTC 2010
No biggy. I understand your not wanting to get into that particular can of
worms. Really I do. I just want to make people think, and for them to make
me think. It is a beautiful thing, no? I know what I said sounds harsh,
but I feel the same way about incompitant dog handlers of any age, who give
all guide dog users a bad name. A guide dog user who allows their dog to
jump all over the back seat of a cab makes it less likely that I and other
responsible guide dog users will be picked up. Every guide dog user who
allows their dog to make terrible messes in hotels makes it more difficult
for responsible guide dog owners to have nice, stress-free check-in
proccesses. Every guide dog owner who lets their dog kjump on people, nub
people's pant legs, hump people's legs, knock over small children, only
makes it harder for responsible dog users to keep people from fearing or
even hating their dogs. If I see a neglegent guide dog owner, I report them
to their school. If I hear from a business owner who has had a substandard
guide dog owner in their establishment, I find myself having to explain
about the differences between guide dog schools, guide dog handler
compitance, etc, in order to not be mistrusted or maligned. That's all I am
saying. If enough irrisponsibly handeled guide dogs bit people, the ADA
could be harmed. If guide dogs and other service dogs, had enough instances
in which they ruened property, this could harm the ADA. I honestly do not
blame the hotel clerk who jumps to his feet and tries to make me and my dog
leave, when I find out that they had a guest whose guide dog growled at and
tried to bite their bell hop, who had diareah all over the lobby carpets and
whose owner left the dog in the hotel room all alone, with out a tie down or
crate, and it chewed up the molding, the bed and the furnature. True story.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)'"
<blindkid at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 10:51 PM
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
> Wow, I am not touching that one.
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> CEO/Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York 10004
> www.myblindspot.org
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> doing it."
>
>
> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Heather
> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 9:42 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
>
> It is not about them not being ready to be independent, it is about them
> not
>
> being ready to be responsible for a guide dog. Guide dogs don't make
> dependent people independent, they make it easier for people who are
> already
>
> independent to be so. The thing about the money and the time, is that
> guide
>
> dogs are a prescious resource, and I am sorry, but, I, as a working
> individual who is holding a job and being a full time student and a mother
> deserve a guide dog far more than a twelve year old whose obligations
> include chorus, chess club, and getting their home work done. A lawyer in
> NYC needs a dog, a twelve year old wants a dog. An occupational tharapist
> who walks to work everyday at the clinic and is a mother of two, deserves
> a
> guide dog more than a thirteen year old, who will be transporting their
> dog
> in the family car, driven by their parents, riding the school bus, and
> walking multi block routes of twenty minutes or more, only once a week.
> By
> that same token, an exceptional fifteen year old living in NYC who takes a
> city bus to school, walks from their to their afterschool job and then
> takes
>
> the subway home, certainly deserves a guide dog far more than the
> sheltered,
>
> socially retarded thirty-five year old still living at home with his
> parents, but that is the ecception, not the rule.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)'"
> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 6:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
>
>
>> Thousand of hours go into a Childs life and if money is a factor I would
>> guess millions were invested as well. A mature child of any years, with
>> proper canes skills will most probably be able to care for any dog
>> regardless of how much money or time went into said dog. What price
>> freedom
>> and independence for our young leaders. Please, know money should be no
>> object when providing our child with all the options they need to succeed
>> and rise above any and all obstacles least of all ones put in front of
>> them by people thinking them bot ready to be independent.
>>
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> CEO/Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York 10004
>> www.myblindspot.org
>> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>> is
>> doing it."
>>
>>
>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Heather
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 12:58 PM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)
>> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
>>
>> One thing to consider is that, yes, it would be easy for them to get
>> themselves in too far at twelve, much more likely than with an adult, and
>> finding themselves in too far is not just about mommy or daddy having to
>> cleen up an accident or feed the dog when the child forgets, we are
>> talking
>> about a dog that thousands and thousands of hours of time, energy and
>> love
>> have been put into, as well as thirty to fifty thousand dollars. That is
>> not something you gambel with. If a child neglects a pet dog or does not
>> use it to full potential, then "Ah well, it is being cared for by the
>> parents, it has been rescued from a shelter and it is providing
>> companionship to the various famioly members." but when we are talkking
>> about potentially wasting a valuable resource on something that might
>> even
>> wind up being detremental to the dog, that is another story. On another
>> note, regarding the cane travel. Good for you, and kudos to your
>> daughter.
>> It is horifying to hear of O and M instructors denying children canes.
>> That
>>
>> is absolutely rediculous and detremental. My son is seventeen months,
>> and
>> although he does not use a cane, we will work on incorperating one into
>> his
>> outdoor travel, once the weather gets nicer. At this point he is only
>> doing
>>
>> indoor travel in our homme and those of our friends, because the snow is
>> up
>> to my hip outside, but when it is nicer, he can go on walks with us and
>> practice cane travel then. The only thing I would caussion parents to be
>> mindful of, is pushing a cane on a toddler for too much time per day. i
>> don't believe that fifteen or sixteen months is too early, just that it
>> is
>> important that children learn to navigate cane free in familiar areas
>> like
>> their homes. No blind adults use canes in their homes, and the really
>> compitant ones can run all over the place in their house, not appearing
>> blind in their movements to those who doo not know that they are blind.
>> For
>>
>> instance, if they work in a small office as adults, it is not
>> unreasonable
>> to expect that they be able to walk to the next office down the hall,
>> make
>> coppies on the coppier and then walk down to one more office to deliver
>> the
>> papers. Or, if they are teaching in a school, they should be able to
>> travel
>>
>> caneless from their class room to another nearby classroom, if need be.
>> I
>> completely understand where you're coming from on the cane thing, and I
>> applaud you, as I have seen some of the assanine literature that is
>> actually
>>
>> used to teach some O and M instructors about what is "best" for blind
>> children. It is great to see a parent so confident in their child, who
>> holds them to normal standards and doesn't blindly take everything that
>> blindness "professionals" say as gospil. That being said, I know some
>> amazing TVIs and O and M instructors who are able to foster outstanding
>> cane
>>
>> skills in young children and preserve the importance of them developing
>> confident, graceful, cane-free movement in other appropriate situations,
>> as
>> well.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Richard Holloway" <rholloway at gopbc.org>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)"
>> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 10:51 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
>>
>>
>> I can see both sides of this issue but I have to agree with Albert.
>>
>> Certainly it would be possible for a younger child to find himself or
>> herself "in too far" in having to care for and deal with a guide dog.
>> Indeed that would be possible for a 16 or 18 year old, or dare I
>> suggest an older adult as well?
>>
>> With that said, I have heard of many things that my blind daughter
>> would supposedly not be "ready" for, including having a cane for
>> travel. That did not stop her from having a cane at 18 months and if I
>> had it to do over again, all I would do is not delay until she was
>> that old. Some kids at my daughter's current age (seven) still have no
>> canes or if they have them, have little motivation and encouragement
>> to use them. That doesn't mean MY child cannot become an outstanding
>> cane traveler at an early age.
>>
>> Not long ago, O&M "experts" nearly always wanted to keep canes out of
>> blind kids hands until, what, middle school or even later? I also know
>> of cases where they would bring a cane for an O&M lesson and then
>> leave WITH THE CANE. Again, presumably because the kids "weren't
>> ready" to be independent cane travelers. You are supposed to be a
>> proficient cane traveler before you can travel with a guide dog. When
>> kids used to get canes much later, that could have come into play more
>> but it is very possible for a 12-year-old to be an expert cane
>> traveler now. Such a child could have been using a cane for 10 years
>> or more by age 12 after all...
>>
>> My daughter is above grade level with her reading and writing braille.
>> Some of her blind friends at the same age are not so fortunate (while
>> others are). We decided early on to make every effort to keep her
>> "caught up" with her sighted classmates (if not ahead). Some other
>> parents don't feel this is so important, even if there is no reason
>> (besides vision issues) which should hold the child back. So, who is
>> "right"?
>>
>> Well, I clearly have an opinion about what is right for MY child. It
>> really isn't my place to say what is the correct choice for others. So
>> here is my point-- I cannot say yet if my daughter would possibly be
>> ready to consider guide dog use and ownership 5 years from now (at age
>> 12), but I can say with some certainty that just because others are
>> not ready would not mean that she could not possibly be so.
>>
>> Can children possibly be mature enough to be in charge of the care for
>> an animal before age 16? I would say "yes, in some cases, absolutely".
>> (Who would disagree?) And clearly some kids are excellent cane
>> travelers before 16. So then why would we close the door to the
>> possibility?
>>
>> Is this a good idea for all kids in the age range of 12? I suspect it
>> is not. besides, guide dogs are not for everyone-- not even all blind
>> adults. Still, I for one would vote for more investigation into this
>> before we begin to campaign against it. We need to be the trend
>> setters for open-minded thought where our kids are concerned. If this
>> is possible and beneficial for even one of our kids, let's find a way
>> to make it (safely) happen.
>>
>> Richard
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 20, 2010, at 10:09 AM, Albert J Rizzi wrote:
>>
>>> Here here! Wy set the bar low when in fact a child of 12 years or 13
>>> years
>>> has the capacity and maturity to handle the responsibility? Isn't it
>>> our
>>> responsibility to give all children those tools they need based upon
>>> their
>>> individual abilities to achieve all things possible in their lives. I
>>> do
>>> not
>>> see the reason for nor the reluctance to allow any teenager an
>>> opportunity
>>> to exercise their choice for mobility and that it include a guide dog.
>>>
>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>> CEO/Founder
>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>> New York, New York 10004
>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>>> is
>>> doing it."
>>>
>>>
>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid- bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Doreen Frappier
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 9:40 AM
>>> To: (for parents of blind children)NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
>>>
>>> I am not opposed to having responsible 12 year olds own and care for a
>>> guide
>>> dog. I believe that children mature at different rates. For example,
>>> 4-H
>>> children own and care for animals (on their own) at very young ages.
>>> They
>>> are responsible for feeding and caring for that animal. One of my
>>> children,
>>> (sighted) is 13, and has been the sole trainer of a dog since she was 9
>>> years old. She has won many awards and competitions with her dog,
>>> including
>>> adult dog shows. She is responsible for feeding and caring for that
>>> dog.
>>> When the dog gets her check ups at the vet, she comes to the vets
>>> office.
>>> It's true, a young person can not take care of the expenses of a guide
>>> dog,
>>> but I am all for training teaching blind children to be independent as
>>> early
>>> as possible. I think each situation is different. I am not aware of
>>> everything that goes into caring for and owning a guide dog, but I
>>> think
>>> some children are capable and should not be excluded because of
>>> age.
>>>
>>> Doreen
>>>
>>> --- On Wed, 1/20/10, Heather <craney07 at rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> From: Heather <craney07 at rochester.rr.com>
>>> Subject: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)"
>>> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
>>> Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 7:22 AM
>>>
>>> I just wanted to get some feedback on this from some parents of blind
>>> children and teens. I, personally, was absolutely apalled to hear that
>>> a
>>> local guide dog school, not mentioning names *coughs* Freedom guide
>>> Dogs
>>> *Coughs* has preposed a program to place guide dogs with twelve year
>>> olds.
>>> All of the other schools in the US accept teens no younger than sixteen
>>> or
>>> eighteen years of age, depending on the school, but twelve? I am happy
>>> to
>>> note that at present, no O and M instructors, parents or twelve year
>>> olds
>>> have contacted the school to enquire about this program, but I am
>>> dreading
>>> the day. This makes a mockery of those exceptional blind teens who
>>> are,
>>> at
>>> sixteen or seventeen, responsible enough, committed enough and have
>>> demanding enough schedules to properly care for, utalize and actually
>>> need a
>>> guide dog. At what age would you consider supporting your teen in
>>> researching guide dog schools? At what age would you support them
>>> actually
>>> submitting applications? How old would you want your teen to be before
>>> actually being placed with a guide dog? Do you think that you would
>>> have
>>> the blunt honesty to deny your support of your child getting a dog
>>> guide,
>>
>>> if
>>> they were not emotionally, mentally, etc capable of utalizing a guide
>>> dog,
>>> at that time in their life? Do you think that you could restrain
>>> yourself
>>> from taking care of the dog, interacting with the dog, or doing things
>>> that
>>> would undermine the ownership of the dog by your blind teen,
>>> acknowledging
>>> their sole ownership and responsibility for the dog, even if you, as
>>> their
>>> mother or father still have all other rule-making power in the house-
>>> hold?
>>> Finally, would you ever, honestly let your twelve year old apply for a
>>> guide
>>> dog? I just felt this should be brought to the list's attention. Just
>>> me
>>> personally, I would not encourage my blind teen to start researching
>>> guide
>>> dog schools until age fourteen or fifteen, and I would not
>>> allow them to apply to schools until they were at least fifteen, and
>>> that
>>> is assuming that they are emotionally ready to deal with the demands of
>>> a
>>> guide dog, such as handeling an emergency vet situation, mentally able
>>> to
>>> care for the dog, such as, researching and selecting safe toys,
>>> effective
>>> medications and appropriate foods, mature enough to deal with the
>>> social
>>> implications, such as access issues, and that they actually had a need,
>>> not
>>> just a want for a guide dog, due to a challenging travel area or
>>> complex
>>> and
>>> demanding schedule of activities and classes. Please share your
>>> thoughts.
>>> _______________________________________________
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