[blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
Albert J Rizzi
albert at myblindspot.org
Thu Jan 21 19:25:45 UTC 2010
I can agree with that. the school should not be petitioning for younger
applicants. The determination of such should be amongst the child, the
parents and the mobility instructor. I am suspect of an organization which
markets to children rather then their guardians or other mobility
instructors. Here is where I feel a child needs the input of all his or her
care givers and supports in order to determine if a child of any years would
stand to benefit on alternative options for mobility.
Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
CEO/Founder
My Blind Spot, Inc.
90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
New York, New York 10004
www.myblindspot.org
PH: 917-553-0347
Fax: 212-858-5759
"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
doing it."
Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
-----Original Message-----
From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Heather
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 12:55 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
Ok, I am having thoughts here. One being that, I agree with you in terms of
the fact that many many sixteen year olds are not ready for guide dogs.
That is absolutely true. I have seen way too many of those sixteen year
olds who should not have guide dogs, and many of them do have guide dogs.
Then again, some schools place dogs with adults that should not have guide
dogs. It happens. Just like great schools some times turn out terrible
dogs, and sometimes spectacular dogs come out of pretty crappy schools.
It's flukey like that. Something else that occurs to me is that it is not
law, not a rule, it is a polocy, the sixteen years or older mark, or
eighteen, depending on the school. If an enterprising twelve year old,
mature, intelligent, with a lot of life experience and a real and true need
for a guide dog was to apply, and be rejected or accepted and wait-listed
because of their age, they could always appeal the decission, write a letter
to the president of the school, etc, and in many cases they would get an
exception. I think however, that if it becomes standard practice, or if
guide dog schools advertise that they take children and tweens into their
programs, the influx of entirely inappropriate candidates will be
overwhelming. The school that prompted me to start this, is actively
seeking young students, which I think is highly irrisponsible and even
neglegent. Especially, because this school is quite small and specializes
in home training, which means that the pool of perspective youths that they
have to draw from is even smaller. Potentially, if a major school like the
Seeing Eye, were to do such a thing, at least they serve the entire United
States, and therefore, the chances of them finding one or two amazingly
independent and responsible pre-teens would be much higher. While I would
disagree with a law being passed that precluded applicants, purely based on
age, I have all support for polocies that do the same thing, as they are
solid, but not entirely rigid.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doreen Frappier" <dcfrappier at yahoo.com>
To: " (for parents of blind children)NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List"
<blindkid at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 9:13 PM
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
I just wanted to say that my 13 year old takes her dog to nursing homes and
charities for and public performances as part of a drill team. She has to
make sure no one hurts the dog, or the dog does not jump on someone or eat
someone's food. She cleans up after the dog, and makes decisions about the
safety of the dog and others near the dog, and trains the dog 4-5 days per
week. It is possible for a young person to be mature enough to do those
things, she does. Even if she misbehaves, she still must care for the dog in
the same way that I care for her when I don't feel like it.
For your argument about maturity, there are many 16 year olds who are not
responsible enough to do those things and who don't have a source of income.
Many still ride the school bus to school. What makes that the "magical" age?
Even a 16 year old needs their parents guidance, and I sometimes still send
my 17 year old to his room for time outs. Heck, I send myself to my room for
timeouts sometimes. I still call my mom for advice and she has come out to
help me when I needed it. I just think it is best to keep an open mind.
Doreen
--- On Wed, 1/20/10, Heather <craney07 at rochester.rr.com> wrote:
From: Heather <craney07 at rochester.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)"
<blindkid at nfbnet.org>
Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 12:30 PM
That's a nice sentament, Really, it is. but that is the point, they can't
handel the responsibilities. Even if they accademically understand the
ramifications, they, not their parents, they, personally, cannot take the
dog to the vet by them self, they can not afford the dog's food, vet care,
medications, training equipment, etc, by them self. The dog would have to be
owned exclusively by and handeled exclusively by the blind pre-teen, not by
the parent, and that simply would not happen in ninety five percent of
homes. If the child forgot to feed the dog, the parents would just yell at
their kid and then do it for them. They wouldn't let the dog go hungry, and
they certainly wouldn't call the school and be honest and admit that their
child was not always remembering to feed the dog and reccomend that it be
taken away. If the dog was sick, the parent would take the dog to the vet
and would never let the child miss school to go with the dog to
the vet, and that is what has to happen. A twelve year old does not have
the savvey or the clout to realize that vets, doctors, professionals, I.E.
professional adults don't always know everything. A twelve year old would
never have the confidence or the social position to argue with a vet who
wants to give a vaccine, when a tyder would sufice. . If someone is still
young enough to be told to go to their room, then they are not old enough to
handel a dog. What if the child is grounded for doing something they should
not? That dog still needs to be walked and more importantly, worked, and the
parents cannot walk, let alone work the dog for their child. The whole thing
that makes guide dogs great for independence is for people who take the city
bus every day, the subway, walk several blocks, make dangerous street
crossings, traverse complex routes. Twelve year olds, unless they live in
downtown Manhattan do not have those needs for a dog.
For instance, twelve-year-olds take school busses, which pick up within a
block of their house, and this is simply not enough work for a guide dog,
walking one block twice a day. Walking around one school building all day,
as in middle school or junior high is not acceptable either. Now, a college
student on a large campus is a whole different thing. Even some blind adults
do not have challenging enough travel needs to warrent getting a guide dog.
I am all for fostering independence in young people with disabilities, but
not at the expense of the dogs, or the rest of the guide dog using
community. All it will take is a few twelve and thirteen year olds that
can't handel their dogs in public, who might jump up on someone, get into it
with another dog on the street, nip at a person's pant leg, for the
reputation of successful guide dog teams to be affected by association. Any
guide dog could jump on someone, bite someone, grab food off of a
restaurant table, knock over a display of china in a store. They are dogs
after all. What keeps this from happening is good socialization, good
training and good maintainence of that training, which requires a great deal
of consistancy, aptitude and maturity. Think about an access issue. It is
difficult for some blind adults to deal with a cabbie or a restaurant owner
who doesn't want their dog in their cab or their place of business. How is a
twelve year old going to cope with this? What adult, who is causing the
access issue is going to take a tween seriously? Pre-teens can still be
independent, but independent at the level of their sighted, pre-teen
counter-parts, not independent on the level of blind and sighted adults.
Would you give a car to a twelve year old? A car can be dangerous, a car
requires maturity and responsibility, a car is a privilage, not a right,
just as is a guide dog. Just some food for thought.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)'"
<blindkid at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 10:09 AM
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
Here here! Wy set the bar low when in fact a child of 12 years or 13 years
has the capacity and maturity to handle the responsibility? Isn't it our
responsibility to give all children those tools they need based upon their
individual abilities to achieve all things possible in their lives. I do not
see the reason for nor the reluctance to allow any teenager an opportunity
to exercise their choice for mobility and that it include a guide dog.
Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
CEO/Founder
My Blind Spot, Inc.
90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
New York, New York 10004
www.myblindspot.org
PH: 917-553-0347
Fax: 212-858-5759
"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
doing it."
Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
-----Original Message-----
From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Doreen Frappier
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 9:40 AM
To: (for parents of blind children)NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
I am not opposed to having responsible 12 year olds own and care for a guide
dog. I believe that children mature at different rates. For example, 4-H
children own and care for animals (on their own) at very young ages. They
are responsible for feeding and caring for that animal. One of my children,
(sighted) is 13, and has been the sole trainer of a dog since she was 9
years old. She has won many awards and competitions with her dog, including
adult dog shows. She is responsible for feeding and caring for that dog.
When the dog gets her check ups at the vet, she comes to the vets office.
It's true, a young person can not take care of the expenses of a guide dog,
but I am all for training teaching blind children to be independent as early
as possible. I think each situation is different. I am not aware of
everything that goes into caring for and owning a guide dog, but I think
some children are capable and should not be excluded because of
age.
Doreen
--- On Wed, 1/20/10, Heather <craney07 at rochester.rr.com> wrote:
From: Heather <craney07 at rochester.rr.com>
Subject: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)"
<blindkid at nfbnet.org>
Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 7:22 AM
I just wanted to get some feedback on this from some parents of blind
children and teens. I, personally, was absolutely apalled to hear that a
local guide dog school, not mentioning names *coughs* Freedom guide Dogs
*Coughs* has preposed a program to place guide dogs with twelve year olds.
All of the other schools in the US accept teens no younger than sixteen or
eighteen years of age, depending on the school, but twelve? I am happy to
note that at present, no O and M instructors, parents or twelve year olds
have contacted the school to enquire about this program, but I am dreading
the day. This makes a mockery of those exceptional blind teens who are, at
sixteen or seventeen, responsible enough, committed enough and have
demanding enough schedules to properly care for, utalize and actually need a
guide dog. At what age would you consider supporting your teen in
researching guide dog schools? At what age would you support them actually
submitting applications? How old would you want your teen to be before
actually being placed with a guide dog? Do you think that you would have
the blunt honesty to deny your support of your child getting a dog guide, if
they were not emotionally, mentally, etc capable of utalizing a guide dog,
at that time in their life? Do you think that you could restrain yourself
from taking care of the dog, interacting with the dog, or doing things that
would undermine the ownership of the dog by your blind teen, acknowledging
their sole ownership and responsibility for the dog, even if you, as their
mother or father still have all other rule-making power in the house-hold?
Finally, would you ever, honestly let your twelve year old apply for a guide
dog? I just felt this should be brought to the list's attention. Just me
personally, I would not encourage my blind teen to start researching guide
dog schools until age fourteen or fifteen, and I would not
allow them to apply to schools until they were at least fifteen, and that
is assuming that they are emotionally ready to deal with the demands of a
guide dog, such as handeling an emergency vet situation, mentally able to
care for the dog, such as, researching and selecting safe toys, effective
medications and appropriate foods, mature enough to deal with the social
implications, such as access issues, and that they actually had a need, not
just a want for a guide dog, due to a challenging travel area or complex and
demanding schedule of activities and classes. Please share your thoughts.
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