[blindkid] Need Tech help

Richard Holloway rholloway at gopbc.org
Mon Jul 12 18:21:12 UTC 2010


I am a avid Mac user and have been one for over 20 years. Even though  
I started off on mainframes and have used PC's over the entire time- 
span I've used Macs, I detest using PC's for my own purposes-- they  
feel awkward and clumsy to me, but my wife is just the opposite and  
finds the Mac to be unsatisfying. That part is all about what your  
used to. Still, for some uses I have to go to a PC because the  
software is more appropriate for the task. So I find it with PC's for  
Kendra. If there were JAWS for Mac or something that was as good as  
that, I'd take it more seriously, but as fun and useful as Voice Over  
is for some uses, it is an incomplete solution.

Furthermore, she uses a BrailleNote and a PAC Mate and both  
(especially the PAC Mate) tie very well to her PC, but not the Mac.  
Can her PDA's be made to work with a Mac? Possibly, but to what  
advantage? At school she's using PC's and I have a working solution  
here including a plug-and-play braille display for the PC.

 From where I stand, if you already have a Mac and can make use of it,  
great, but I'm not going to suggest someone should buy a more  
expensive Mac to get a less efficient solution for their child. It may  
save money short-term, but down the road it will cost more than it  
saved in more ways than one.

Richard



On Jul 12, 2010, at 12:41 PM, Brandy W wrote:

> Exactly. Just because their company is working with 1 company to  
> make it accessable doesn't mean the rest of the world is. I have the  
> Iphone, and the stuff I can do is like no other. The Mac has been  
> hard for me to use not because of the computer, but because I've  
> used windows for so long, and am having a hard time making the  
> switch. I also hear this from sighted users. I was able to do more  
> kid stuff for my tutoring with the mac than my windows machine. Bran
> "Families that play together learn together!"
> Brandy Wojcik
> Discovery Toys Educational Leader
> Check out our new spring line perfect for spring time learning and  
> Easter baskets and more...
> www.playtoachieve.com
> (512) 689-5045
>
> Discovery Toys wants to be a part of your family's learning success  
> and here are a few ways we can help:
> * Join my team and recieve 18 award winning products for $125
> * Host a fun get together with friends and earn free Educational  
> products,
> * Purchase award winning educational materials on my webpage,
> * Purchase or get free gift baskets for children of all ages
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sally Thomas" <seacknit at gmail.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)" <blindkid at nfbnet.org 
> >
> Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 10:43 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Need Tech help
>
>
>> My son prefers the Mac interface because it is easier to use and  
>> less prone to jamming up.  While JAWS can access some Flash  
>> content, the information it gives you is not always useful.   I'm  
>> told that on many sites it reads links as "button," providing no  
>> useful information about the content.  Also, in our schools, the  
>> Cartoon Network is blocked by the district network so it is  
>> inaccessible to all students.  The usefulness of different computer  
>> types depends on the child's needs.
>>
>> A good thing about a Mac is that it is easy to set up a virtual  
>> machine on it and run Windows as well as the Mac software.  Many  
>> people who like Microsoft Office and the Apple hardware do this.   
>> Apple is working hard on accessibility.  The iPhone is the most  
>> fully accessible phone available right now and the Apple website  
>> lists all the braille devices with which it is compatible.  My son  
>> was able to connect his BrailleNote to a Mac at the Apple store in  
>> about 5 minutes without any assistance.  He's 13.
>>
>> While I think it is great that there are people working on  
>> accessible technology for kids, it is too simple to say that there  
>> is one perfect solution right now.  We've struggled with JAWS and a  
>> PC for several years. A blind person cannot get the full internet  
>> experience with that technology right now because not all Flash  
>> content is accessible with JAWS.
>>
>> Sally Thomas
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thea Eaton" <thea at doodledoo.com>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind  
>> children)'" <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 10:00 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Need Tech help
>>
>>
>>>
>>> With the Mac, you will not get a full internet experience,  
>>> however. The
>>> voice over screen reader is very limited. A 9 year old child, will  
>>> want to
>>> access educational content and games online that will be Flash. We  
>>> are
>>> working with Cartoon Network right now, for example, in making a  
>>> fully
>>> accessible children's site for kids about nutrition. If they would  
>>> access
>>> this in the classroom, then Mac users would not be able to access  
>>> this
>>> content, or play the accessible Flash games that come with it. I  
>>> would
>>> therefore strongly recommend against Macs for children at this  
>>> time, until
>>> they become more accessible.
>>>
>>> Thea Eaton
>>> DoodleDoo
>>> Where early birds learn.
>>> www.doodledoo.com
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>> ] On
>>> Behalf Of Brandy W
>>> Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 9:36 AM
>>> To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)
>>> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Need Tech help
>>>
>>> Mac is also a great option for 2 reasons. It comes with voice over  
>>> which
>>> many many blind people are using and for a child they wouldn't  
>>> have the
>>> prior knowledge of a windows computer. Mac is also supporting  
>>> Braille
>>> desplays. So Yes Mac is an option. Each has their Pros and cons.
>>>
>>> Bran
>>>
>>> "Families that play together learn together!"
>>> Brandy Wojcik
>>> Discovery Toys Educational Leader
>>> Check out our new spring line perfect for spring time learning and  
>>> Easter
>>> baskets and more...
>>> www.playtoachieve.com
>>> (512) 689-5045
>>>
>>> Discovery Toys wants to be a part of your family's learning  
>>> success and here
>>>
>>> are a few ways we can help:
>>> * Join my team and recieve 18 award winning products for $125
>>> * Host a fun get together with friends and earn free Educational  
>>> products,
>>> * Purchase award winning educational materials on my webpage,
>>> * Purchase or get free gift baskets for children of all ages
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thea Eaton" <thea at doodledoo.com>
>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind  
>>> children)'"
>>> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 9:04 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Need Tech help
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> For a 9 year old computer user, we would recommend a PC with a  
>>>> screen
>>>> reader
>>>> that is MSAA compatible, such as JAWS or Window Eyes. These  
>>>> screen readers
>>>> can access Flash content, wich will allow your daughter to access
>>>> accessible
>>>> Flash games and children's content on the web, and also any Flash  
>>>> modules
>>>> that they use at school.
>>>>
>>>> We build accessible Flash applications for educational publishers  
>>>> such as
>>>> Harcourt School and Pearson, who are increasingly putting their  
>>>> book
>>>> content
>>>> out there online. Most of their ebOok and enrichment content is  
>>>> Flash
>>>> content, so I would make sure that you choose a screen reader  
>>>> that is
>>>> Flash
>>>> compatible. Most these screen readers do not work on a Mac, I'm  
>>>> afraid, so
>>>
>>>> I
>>>> would not get a Mac.
>>>>
>>>> Thea Eaton
>>>> DoodleDoo
>>>> Where early birds learn.
>>>> www.doodledoo.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>>> ] On
>>>> Behalf Of Sally Thomas
>>>> Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 6:42 AM
>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Need Tech help
>>>>
>>>> There are several different screen readers.  Besides JAWS there  
>>>> are Window
>>>> Eyes, NVDA, and System Access. I believe they all have free demos.
>>>> Serotek
>>>> offers a free version of their software to kids K-12
>>>> (http://serotek.com/kk-main ).  We've found the biggest issue to be
>>>> dealing
>>>> with what the school will allow on their computers and what the  
>>>> teacher of
>>>> blind students will support.  For several years the only software
>>>> supported
>>>> was JAWS.  Now we are leaning towards a Mac for a laptop with its  
>>>> built in
>>>> VoiceOver screen reader and using a BrailleNote as a braille  
>>>> display and
>>>> note taker.  Unfortunately there is not one definitive answer.   
>>>> We've been
>>>> very happy with the tech support we've received from Humanware  
>>>> with the
>>>> BrailleNote.  Freedom Scientific has become more helpful in the  
>>>> past year
>>>> with questions about JAWS.
>>>>
>>>> The most cost effective solution is free screen reader software  
>>>> on a
>>>> laptop
>>>> but for a braille reader, getting braille under your fingers is  
>>>> very
>>>> important at age 9.  I think that some sort of refreshable  
>>>> braille is
>>>> great.
>>>>
>>>> The new notetakers are so light and can do so much.  You might  
>>>> want to
>>>> call
>>>> the different note taker companies and see if they will have a  
>>>> sales rep
>>>> come to the school to demonstrate the technology.  It is a big  
>>>> purchase so
>>>> you should be able to take a look at it before you buy.
>>>>
>>>> Sally Thomas
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Holloway" <rholloway at gopbc.org 
>>>> >
>>>> To: <jjordan_pa at yahoo.com>; "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for  
>>>> parents of
>>>> blind children)" <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2010 8:01 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Need Tech help
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> We have been through similar frustrations. I expect we all have  
>>>>> to sort
>>>>> through this business at one time or another. Not to state the  
>>>>> obvious,
>>>>> but it depends on what her peers are doing exactly. There are  
>>>>> definitely
>>>>> a lot of questions to ask before you get out your checkbook  and  
>>>>> you also
>>>>> need to have some idea of your budget limit because this  can  
>>>>> get costly
>>>>> very quickly. (Yet it may also be fairly cheap to start!)
>>>>>
>>>>> Here are a few questions that come to mind for starters--
>>>>>
>>>>> Mac or PC?
>>>>> Blind or Low Vision (or both)? (This drives discussions about  
>>>>> screen
>>>>> readers and refreshable braille and so forth).
>>>>> Assuming she's a braille reader are you trying to come up with
>>>>> refreshable braille?
>>>>> Are you hoping to produce embossed output in braille?
>>>>> Are you wanting to use a screen reader?
>>>>> What computer applications do you hope to use?
>>>>> Do you need web access?
>>>>> Are you certain you want a conventional computer as compared to
>>>>> something
>>>>
>>>>> like a PAC Mate or a Braille Note?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The first thing to do would be to list out your goals and  
>>>>> probably to
>>>>> prioritize them as well. If this is a low vision situation as  
>>>>> compared
>>>>> to
>>>>
>>>>> a blindness issue for example, there are ways to magnify text and
>>>>> increase contrast that aren't terribly expensive or even free in  
>>>>> some
>>>>> cases. Is this mostly about web access or maybe printing out  
>>>>> stories she
>>>>> writes? The questions go on and on...
>>>>>
>>>>> If you're using a PC and want a screen reader, JAWS costs $900  
>>>>> to $1100
>>>>> but you can also get a demo version (for free!) that runs about   
>>>>> 45 or 50
>>>>> minutes. After that you have to restart the machine before it   
>>>>> will work
>>>>> again, but again, it is free to try.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you have or will get a BrailleNote or PAC Mate you may have a  
>>>>> no-
>>>>> additional-cost solution right there for refreshable braille  
>>>>> (depending
>>>>> on the model).
>>>>>
>>>>> For embossing braille you either need to think used equipment or  
>>>>> budget
>>>>> close $3000 for that alone, but if you have a decent PC   
>>>>> available and
>>>>> just want a screen reader, you may be able to get a  temporary  
>>>>> solution
>>>>> going with only a free download. Sometimes, you can  get the  
>>>>> school to
>>>>> print things out for you and avoid buying an  embosser & the  
>>>>> related
>>>>> software for that.
>>>>>
>>>>> What does she use at school? Do they have any equipment to let  
>>>>> her use
>>>>> at
>>>>
>>>>> home? Do you have to buy a new PC or do you already have one  
>>>>> for  her?
>>>>> Ideally, I'd say go to NFB convention and see all sorts of  
>>>>> things  on
>>>>> display but that just happened last week, so unless you have a   
>>>>> state
>>>>> convention coming up with a technology display, that may not be   
>>>>> soon
>>>>> enough since the Dallas National convention was only last week   
>>>>> (the
>>>>> national convention won't happen again until Orlando in July  
>>>>> 2011).
>>>>>
>>>>> Feel free to reply with more details for more suggestions though  
>>>>> it may
>>>>> be best to take this off list as the discussion can become  
>>>>> tedious  for
>>>>> so
>>>>
>>>>> many to be reading through.
>>>>>
>>>>> Richard
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 11, 2010, at 6:54 PM, jjordan_pa at yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Anybody out there know what would be the best set up for my  
>>>>>> daughter as
>>>>>> far as computer technology? There are so many "things" out  
>>>>>> there  and it
>>>>>> is all so expensive. Can't exactly buy it and "hope" that it   
>>>>>> is useful.
>>>>>> I need to "know" that it is useful before I purchase.  What do  
>>>>>> I need so
>>>>>> that my 9 year old can use a computer like her  peers? I am so
>>>>>> frustrated
>>>>
>>>>>> right now and don't know where to turn.  HELP!!
>>>>>> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
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